Jump to content

2020-21 Winter weather; bring it on


Parliament

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

How in the world can Texas run air conditioners 95% of the year but the second it drops to near 0 for 48 hours, you need to conserve energy and shut off power so homes can’t heat?

It makes zero sense to my little brain.  All Electric Appliances, rather than gas furnaces and burners?  I don't know. Does Texas have residential gas generally? Rural/city split? ?

Edited by washparkhorn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

How in the world can Texas run air conditioners 95% of the year but the second it drops to near 0 for 48 hours, you need to conserve energy and shut off power so homes can’t heat?

Without knowing anything about thermo dynamics or the efficiency of various ac or heaters: a 100 degree day cooling to 75 is a 25 degree difference.  A 20 degree day heating to 65 is a 45 degree difference.  So that's like twice the temperature difference.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, washparkhorn said:

It makes zero sense to my little brain.  All Electric Appliances, rather than gas furnaces and burners?  I don't know. Does Texas have residential gas generally? Rural/city split? ?

It really seems like new construction is moving more towards no gas.  One more thing($$) to have to run pipes and get inspected. Slightly more dangerous.   I was a little pissed because the previous owner of my house refinished the place and replaced the stove and water heater with electric and capped the gas for the dryer.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/12/2021 at 4:02 AM, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Been awake since 2:30 due to the sound of our neighbors' tree limbs snapping. The live oaks in our front yard are holding up but I don't know if they'll make it unscathed if we get much more ice accumulation. At least PEC is on.
 

Edited by Hpara759
DP
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

How in the world can Texas run air conditioners 95% of the year but the second it drops to near 0 for 48 hours, you need to conserve energy and shut off power so homes can’t heat?

Because the power profile of a hot summer day is different than that of a cold winter night. 

Electric space heaters are extremely inefficient and draw a shit ton of power. Most people running them at night at probably still using more power than they normally do during the day with all the lights and televisions on. And some houses, even without space heaters, are still running electric forced air heaters, which are still more inefficient than cooling systems. 

Also, during hot summer days, you have wind and solar providing a lot of capacity in Texas. You have neither during a cold winter night because the sun isn't shining and the turbines can freeze up.

So you have extra demand and reduced supply. That adds up to shortages.

If these types of nights were more common they'd adjust the system to be able to cope with better, but these types of event are extremely rare so instead of spend the money for something that happens once in 40 years, they just say, "tough it out" and deal with it for the 24-48 hours it lasts and then they get back within the normal bounds they have prepared for. 

 

EDIT - quoted the wrong post for response, now fixed

Edited by crimsonlonghorn
  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Morning shift checking in.  No rolling blackouts yet here in our little corner of South Austin but I'm sure it'll happen.  Doing our part, running at 64 degrees downstairs, 66 upstairs for the kids.  I'm hearing all kinds of mixed reviews for blackouts.  Some say it's 30 minutes, some say theirs are several hours.  It is kinda crazy since 100% of schools, probably 75% of offices, and 50% of retail won't be pulling very much power today except the barebones minimum.  

The snow does look beautiful.  Went outside and measured it on level limestone...almost right at 6" (that's what she said).  More than I thought we'd get.  Gonna be perfect in about 90 minutes for snowmen.  

I'm thinking about making a coffee or cocoa with whiskey.  

Anybody else been staying up last couple of nights/early mornings:  dripping faucets, rotating space heaters, maximizing HVAC units, checking the attic, checking exterior pipes & limbs, etc.  And then you feel like Mr. Torrence in "The Shining."  Somebody is telling me to caretake the home so the elements can't get a foothold.  Sooner of later, I end up at the bar in my house being told that I have always been here.  Shit's starting to freak me out.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rolling 45 minute blackouts my ass. It’s been over an hour and a half now and my cold ass has been counting every second. Good thing our propane company gave us warnings that we will soon run out as well. No electricity, no propane, plentiful whiskey. So far...

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, crimsonlonghorn said:

Because the power profile of a hot summer day is different than that of a cold winter night. 

Electric space heaters are extremely inefficient and draw a shit ton of power. Most people running them at night at probably still using more power than they normally do during the day with all the lights and televisions on. And some houses, even without space heaters, are still running electric forced air heaters, which are still more inefficient than cooling systems. 

Also, during hot summer days, you have wind and solar providing a lot of capacity in Texas. You have neither during a cold winter night because the sun isn't shining and the turbines can freeze up.

So you have extra demand and reduced supply. That adds up to shortages.

If these types of nights were more common they'd adjust the system to be able to cope with better, but these types of event are extremely rare so instead of spend the money for something that happens once in 40 years, they just say, "tough it out" and deal with it for the 24-48 hours it lasts and then they get back within the normal bounds they have prepared for. 

Why not concurrent gas service? Run the furnace on gas (or gas heated radiant heat)? Too much to retrofit? Gas burners and heat add a layer of safety and value. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, washparkhorn said:

Why not concurrent gas service? Run the furnace on gas (or gas heated radiant heat)? Too much to retrofit? Gas burners and heat add a layer of safety and value. 

This kind of thing is so rare - the last time this happened was 40 years ago - the cost of planning for it, or retrofitting, is way too high relative to the risk. One night in 40 years. That's 1 in 14,600 compared to the A/C running maybe, 7,000 of those nights? I'm not an engineer, but this is a common problem... how much deviation do you plan for relative to your budget? We could make every house gas with a backup propane tank and a backup generator. but it would raise the cost of the house by another $50,000. Is that "worth" it for one night in 40 years? Most people would say "no" and those affected tonight will probably forget about it in a few weeks. And that ignores the added expense of buying all the propane and laying all of the gas lines, etc etc. Utilities do this kind of planning all the time.

Someone else mentioned as well that most madd built new construction homes are engineered to last through the 1-3 year warranty period and that's it. They're not going to put more money into a tract home than they have to. And most of the buyers are fine with that because they get granite counter tops and "wood" floors and that new home smell.

(Not making a judgment at all, just an economic observation about preferences)

The bottom line is that we could seriously prepare for this, but is it really worth the money or could that money be better spent relative to the rarity of the circumstances?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, crimsonlonghorn said:

Because the power profile of a hot summer day is different than that of a cold winter night. 

Electric space heaters are extremely inefficient and draw a shit ton of power. Most people running them at night at probably still using more power than they normally do during the day with all the lights and televisions on. And some houses, even without space heaters, are still running electric forced air heaters, which are still more inefficient than cooling systems. 

Also, during hot summer days, you have wind and solar providing a lot of capacity in Texas. You have neither during a cold winter night because the sun isn't shining and the turbines can freeze up.

So you have extra demand and reduced supply. That adds up to shortages.

If these types of nights were more common they'd adjust the system to be able to cope with better, but these types of event are extremely rare so instead of spend the money for something that happens once in 40 years, they just say, "tough it out" and deal with it for the 24-48 hours it lasts and then they get back within the normal bounds they have prepared for. 

 

EDIT - quoted the wrong post for response, now fixed

Yes. Not only are the wind turbines not generating power, they also need to be heated to prevent damage. Not an issue in July. 
 

Power out since 230am. About to drop below 60 inside. Fuck everything. 

Edited by ChickenSandwich
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Kringelbert Fishtybuns said:

Last night, there were several transmission lines that went out causing ERCOT to call generators to come down on load.  I’m pretty sure this is a transmission bottleneck.  At over $9000/MW, generators will be making whatever they can.

That too. I forgot to mention that part. 

I bet they could handle cold with no precipitation. But ice on the lines causes problems. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, crimsonlonghorn said:

This kind of thing is so rare - the last time this happened was 40 years ago - the cost of planning for it, or retrofitting, is way too high relative to the risk. One night in 40 years. That's 1 in 14,600 compared to the A/C running maybe, 7,000 of those nights? I'm not an engineer, but this is a common problem... how much deviation do you plan for relative to your budget? We could make every house gas with a backup propane tank and a backup generator. but it would raise the cost of the house by another $50,000. Is that "worth" it for one night in 40 years? Most people would say "no" and those affected tonight will probably forget about it in a few weeks. And that ignores the added expense of buying all the propane and laying all of the gas lines, etc etc. Utilities do this kind of planning all the time.

Someone else mentioned as well that most madd built new construction homes are engineered to last through the 1-3 year warranty period and that's it. They're not going to put more money into a tract home than they have to. And most of the buyers are fine with that because they get granite counter tops and "wood" floors and that new home smell.

(Not making a judgment at all, just an economic observation about preferences)

The bottom line is that we could seriously prepare for this, but is it really worth the money or could that money be better spent relative to the rarity of the circumstances?

Excellent post. Thanks. I used gas all year long in colorado and chicago, but it was just part of the hook up onto a grid. Much more complicated to retrofit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...