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Wally Fairway

By Wally Fairway
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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5517

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On 2/4/2021 at 10:25 AM, Wally Fairway said:

We should have a contest - Jordan make or miss the cut this week?
Bonus question, if he makes does he top 25? 10?

I'll take the easy answer - miss 

well my reverse jinx almost worked 

just looking at 5 pages for this thread this week tells you the Jordan was doing something well
Brooks's finish was amazing, he was getting very little TV time and then bang -5 on 13-17; and then watch everyone else just flounder their way in

 

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Red Five
Red Five

Should have gone with the driver. 

C-Man
C-Man

DeChambeau is such a douchebag. Blamed bad breaks, the wind changing up on him a couple of times and a couple other excuses for leaving six shots out there. Said he could've easily shot 9-under even i

Fuck Tim Beck
Fuck Tim Beck

All gas no brakes!  Tiger obviously got his mother's driving skills 

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18 hours ago, ztejas said:

He's 27. He played better this week than he has in a long time. He still didn't win but he was in contention on the back 9 amidst a very competitive field. 

And to win a PGA he will need to do all of the things he will need to do to compete and have a shot at every stop, anyway. 

Golf is really deep right now talent wise - and winning is maybe harder than it's ever been. There are a lot fewer guys with 10, 15, 20 wins than there were in eras past. He just needs to get back to competing on the weekend and he did that this week. He's already a HoF lock - winning 10 more times with another major or two would give him a really solid career even among HoFers. 

No question.  I'm not going to say Jordan is back, but this is the best he's looked in a long time.  And the talent is so deep now it's fucking retarded.  We will see how this year goes.  His 2014-2017 was the only thing we've ever seen that compares to tiger in the past 20 years.  It is probably tough for a lot of these guys that sign the 100MM dollar contracts to stay focused, because what does it really matter.  But it seems like Jordan cares and it will be interesting to see how his career progresses.  

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5517

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Fuck Chamblee (but he may not be wrong - Jordan certainly struggles off the tee)

Comments from last week - before and after his 61

Quote

Q: You just said Jordan is “on his way to oblivion.” I take that to mean you see him getting worse rather than better.

BC: If you go back and look at Ian Baker-Finch and David Duval’s ascent and descent in the game of golf, they track a similar path to Jordan Spieth. When they get to a point where they are really searching and they get desperate there’s not only the insecurity of whether or not you’re ever going to find it again, there’s also that psychological scar tissue. It’s like a physical wound and some of them will heal up and some of them will kill you.

Ian Baker-Finch or David Duval, no disrespect to them, but the only reason I picked them out is they made the game look so easy for a period of time as did Jordan Spieth. Their descent is a reminder to all of us that it is ephemeral. You can lose it in the blink of an eye. He seems to be searching every single week, spending lots of practice swings, over the ball a long time.

GW: Do you want to walk back any of your comments about Jordan since we talked the other day?

BC: What did I say? I can’t even remember. I wasn’t probably sanguine about his comeback.

He did something today I don’t think I’ve seen. I’ll go look it up. I can’t remember a person being in the lead position in a golf tournament being dead last in fairways hit and next-to-last in distance from the edge of the fairway. That’s unprecedented. I don’t know how you do that. I guess you can in a place like the desert where there is a lot of luck involved in the lies you get and then you hit your irons like a God. He still has the ability to stun us with his short game and putter.

As I chewed on it today, there are a handful of people who lost their edge. Sam Snead in 1947-48 he won only one time because he had the putting yips and then he won 17 times when he sorted that out the next two years in 1949-50.

Henrik Stenson was No. 4 in the world after winning the Players in 2009 and he fell down to No. 230 when he got the driver yips. I’m not saying Jordan Spieth has the driver yips but on your way to them you miss by wide margins in every direction. Stenson worked his way out of it. Steve Stricker was sort of the same thing. There are some notable players fairly recently and well in the past that have come out of these slumps fairly nicely.

It’s cool to see Jordan Spieth give some hope for a comeback. As inaccurate as he was in 2016-17, he was just a little wobbly off the tee, but he’s become hugely inaccurate, which is usually a prelude to an irrecoverable slump, at least for a period of time. It was the preamble for Ian Baker-Finch’s slump, it was the preamble to David Duval’s slump, it was the preamble to Ralph Guldahl’s slump. Those are slumps that players never recovered from.

He hasn’t solved his big misses but to see him step up on 15 and hit that draw with the water left after missing it to the left so often and at times by wide margins that speaks to his commitment. He said in his post-round remarks that he’s committed to being committed. That was a helluva quote. There’s no other place for him to go. If he loses his attitude, there’s no way back. I’ve never seen him slump his shoulders, I’ve never seen him throw clubs, I’ve never seen him use profanity, I’ve never seen him give the Heisman to people asking him tough-to-answer questions. I said today on our show that I’ve never seen anybody, except for maybe Chip Beck, handle really poor play with more class. It’s easy to pull for somebody like that.

 guess I would say I’m a little more optimistic than the last time we talked. I still need to see him drive it better than he does. I don’t see how he can come back and play anywhere near the type of golf he used to play unless he drives it better. There’s a difference between driving it poorly and driving it terribly. There’s generally not much hope to contend when you’re driving it terrible.

If you think about it, it’s as exciting as anything watching a player of his caliber work his way out of a slump. Tiger has given us two comebacks on an epic scale. This isn’t on the same scale because he’s not dealing with a broken leg or a broken reputation or a darn-near busted back, but he’s dealing with a broken game. It’s as compelling as his good golf was, almost.

GW: Do you think shooting 61 validates what he’s working on?

BC: To some extent. Look, you have to have selective memory in this game. If I had driven it like him and I was leading I would be thinking all I have to do is hit it a little better and I can really make a move. He’s almost dead last in Strokes Gained: off the tee and dead last in driving accuracy. Only Brendan Steele is worse than him in distance from the edge of the fairway. He’s not just missing fairways, he’s missing them by a wide margin. For him to play as well as he has the first three rounds speaks volumes about his mental strength. Outside of Tiger, you’re hard-pressed to find another player more exciting to watch than Jordan Spieth.

The only thing I’ll say is when you see someone drive it as inaccurately as he did, it’s a trip to oblivion. Henrik Stenson and Steve Stricker came back from there. If I’m Jordan Spieth I’d look at what they did and use that as positive reinforcement that he can dig his way out of this hole.

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/02/07/jordan-spieth-61-brandel-chamblee-oblivion/

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4th&Five

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The PGA of America will permit the use of distance-measuring devices during play in its 2021 major championships, including the PGA Championship at Kiawah Island (May 20-23).

The association announced the decision on Tuesday, with it also applying to the KPMG Women’s PGA Championship (June 24-27 at Atlanta Athletic Club) and the KitchenAid Senior PGA Championship (May 27-30 at Southern Hills).

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dcar00

dcar00 14023

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Spieth could be the new Phil if he gets it back to 85%90% of what he was.   you watch because you might see greatness or an epic implosion.

Chamblee does make the same comment I made.  He looks so gotdam tight over the ball on the tee.  I know he's always had the twitches but it looks worse.

Its crazy because if his iron game and putting comes back he could hit 3 wood all day and probably win some tournaments.

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dcar00

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46 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

The PGA of America will permit the use of distance-measuring devices during play in its 2021 major championships, including the PGA Championship at Kiawah Island (May 20-23).

The association announced the decision on Tuesday, with it also applying to the KPMG Women’s PGA Championship (June 24-27 at Atlanta Athletic Club) and the KitchenAid Senior PGA Championship (May 27-30 at Southern Hills).

this could help speed play when the player is fairly off line and can see the pin. the caddy doesn't have to calculate the distance from an unknown point.  in the fairway or just off in the rough probably doesn't help much as there is still calculation of where they want the ball to land.

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5517

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17 hours ago, Lurch said:

Big fan. Caddie counting steps is not sport.

Agree - but that always takes me back to my youth, as a caddie, and walking from a sprinkler head. But then again we never had pin sheets either, so you had to estimate where the pin was from the center of the green.

One of the regulars I used to caddie for was a great guy and pretty funny, when the club put yardage markers in the ground Mr. Andrews made a big deal out of wanting to know if that yardage was from the front of the marker or the back of the marker (they were maybe 12-18 inches wide).  Great guy though, he let me sign for snacks at the halfway house, and not just for me but for all the caddies in the group.

Also, I have put a full jinx on Spieth this week as he is on my fantasy team for the first time in several years.

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dcar00

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7 minutes ago, ztejas said:

No way. Maybe 10 years ago. 

I'm half joking but a strong lofted 3 wood that puts him in the fairway could work in my opinion.  yes some holes you have no choice but to hit driver.

maybe the 3wood isn't any better.

He wouldn't do it anyway.  

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ztejas

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Just now, dcar00 said:

I'm half joking but a strong lofted 3 wood that puts him in the fairway could work in my opinion.  yes some holes you have no choice but to hit driver.

maybe the 3wood isn't any better.

He wouldn't do it anyway.  

It could work if he becomes the greatest approach player and putter in PGA history overnight. There are guys he'd be giving 70-80 yards to off the tee. 

Does he even spray his 3 any less than his driver? He might as well try and get longer off the tee so if/when he misses right he's up there another 20-25 yards.

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dcar00

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18 minutes ago, ztejas said:

It could work if he becomes the greatest approach player and putter in PGA history overnight. There are guys he'd be giving 70-80 yards to off the tee. 

Does he even spray his 3 any less than his driver? He might as well try and get longer off the tee so if/when he misses right he's up there another 20-25 yards.

sure like you, my guess is his 3 wood is 25 yards back of his driver.  I have no idea if he would spray it any less.   It was more of a half joking because it would be interesting to see what being the fairway 25 yards back means.  would he lose less strokes over a month of tournaments if he used it strategically but not on every hole?

some if it is mental.  I almost liken it to basketball when a struggling shooting sees the ball go in on couple of free throws and then goes on a tear.

again, I agree that it is moot because he(nor any other pro likely) is going to succumb to the fact that they can't hit a driver in the fairway consistently and in fact these guys already know they are missing a certain amount of fairways.  the key is to know how/where you are going to miss.

 

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ztejas

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4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

would he lose less strokes over a month of tournaments if he used it strategically but not on every hole?

Well... Tiger used to do that all the time. The difference being that Tiger was one of the if not the longest approach player(s) in the game. 

I think you need to account for the fact that Spieth is already hitting behind guys with driver. His 3 wood, 4 iron from the fairway is behind other guys, too. So hitting a club down off the tee further exacerbates him being a shorter hitter. It isn't like Rory or DJ going 3 wood or 4 iron off the tee where they can make it up with a 280 3 wood off the deck.

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dcar00

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1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Well... Tiger used to do that all the time. The difference being that Tiger was one of the if not the longest approach player(s) in the game. 

I think you need to account for the fact that Spieth is already hitting behind guys with driver. His 3 wood, 4 iron from the fairway is behind other guys, too. So hitting a club down off the tee further exacerbates him being a shorter hitter. It isn't like Rory or DJ going 3 wood or 4 iron off the tee where they can make it up with a 280 3 wood off the deck.

i already get that Spieth is behind the other guys out of the gate.  again, it was more of a half joking "what if?"

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ztejas

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5 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

i already get that Spieth is behind the other guys out of the gate.  again, it was more of a half joking "what if?"

I understand. I'm just fleshing it out since it seems you are somewhat intrigued by the concept. If he was a longer hitter I think it would be more feasible. 

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ztejas

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5 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

well yeah.  the dude can't hit the fairway😃

There's also increasing sentiment (and some statistics backing it up) that being in the fairway vs. the first-cut or rough doesnt matter all that much if you're say 30 yards further off the tee. I know that Bryson subscribes to that school of thought - and I would imagine most of the distance chasing guys do, too. 

Hence why I raise the thought that if Spieth is going to spray it anyway he might as well work on getting it further down there.

Apologies if I'm going on a huge tangent off of a tounge-in-cheek comment - but I think it's an interesting discussion. I'm not the biggest Spieth fan here but I'd like to see him succeed. I really enjoyed watching on Sunday. 

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dcar00

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1 minute ago, ztejas said:

There's also increasing sentiment (and some statistics backing it up) that being in the fairway vs. the first-cut or rough doesnt matter all that much if you're say 30 yards further off the tee. I know that Bryson subscribes to that school of thought - and I would imagine most of the distance chasing guys do, too. 

Hence why I raise the thought that if Spieth is going to spray it anyway he might as well work on getting it further down there.

Apologies if I'm going on a huge tangent off of a tounge-in-cheek comment - but I think it's an interesting discussion. I'm not the biggest Spieth fan here but I'd like to see him succeed. I really enjoyed watching on Sunday. 

I know the short grass is less valuable these days and with the ball and club technology coming out of rough isn't as difficult as it used to be.

rather than lengthening the course I'd rather they tighten them up and grow rough higher but yeah I'm old school and TV wants to talk about and show shottrackers of 400 yard drives and 9 iron second shots to par 5's. 

your thought is exactly Spieth's thought. I just need to get my misses under control(one way and not ridiculously off line).  IMO I think his swing(and brain) got wonky because he knew he needed(or wanted) to get more distance.  His game was never built like that.  He's not trying to be BDC but he wanted more distance.  again, these are just my half as guessing thoughts watching him.

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ztejas

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2 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

IIRC Phil went without a driver one year at Augusta.  Looked it up, he did it for the US Open at Merion.

Which is a par 70 sitting right at 7,000 yards. The US Open is probably best suited for it, too, since it's harder to attack pins and score. It worked for Phil - he finished 2nd.

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LTtxfan

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1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

your thought is exactly Spieth's thought. I just need to get my misses under control(one way and not ridiculously off line).  IMO I think his swing(and brain) got wonky because he knew he needed(or wanted) to get more distance.  His game was never built like that.  He's not trying to be BDC but he wanted more distance.  again, these are just my half as guessing thoughts watching him.

Yeah during Spieth's slump he would get his body caught behind the ball a lot and block his shots right.  Then to adjust he would speed up his body too much and open up his left side too quickly along with quicker hands causing a pull hook left.

His timing was just terrible, and constantly causing his two-way misses. 

Watching this past weekend in AZ, his misses were not as bad but he still has a ways to go.  When he felt more pressure/doubt late in the 3rd Rd he blocked his drives right on #17 and #18.  During his 4th Rd, he never got into any kind of rhythm of success -- it was obvious that he is still a work-in-process guy trying to trust changes that he is working through. 

But to me, Jordan looks to be playing the best golf that he has played in over 3 years.

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ztejas

ztejas 43244

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3 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

he would get his body caught behind the ball a lot and block his shots right.  Then to adjust he would speed up his body too much and open up his left side too quickly along with quicker hands causing a pull hook left.

Sounds like a typical round for me.

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5517

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Must be no wind today (I'm only looking at the scoreboard, not the broadcast), but a lot of guys are tearing up Pebble:
Cantlay with 5 birdies in the first six holes
2 players at -6, one is through 12 the other through 11

Jordan makes a 20 footer to save par on 7 (the 100 yarder) to stay at -3 - oops, miss read that, 20 inches, so good up and down from behind the green., He hasn't had to make one from outside 10 feet, so far

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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21468

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5 minutes ago, Wally Fairway said:

Must be no wind today (I'm only looking at the scoreboard, not the broadcast), but a lot of guys are tearing up Pebble:
Cantlay with 5 birdies in the first six holes
2 players at -6, one is through 12 the other through 11

Jordan makes a 20 footer to save par on 7 (the 100 yarder) to stay at -3 - oops, miss read that, 20 inches, so good up and down from behind the green., He hasn't had to make one from outside 10 feet, so far

Judging from the scores, there is some wind at Spyglass.

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5517

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3 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

Spyglass is a much tougher course, hills, trees and longer; I don't think it is the wind on that side.
If the wind comes up tomorrow, the guys on Pebble today certainly are catching a break

of the top 30 players currently on the leaderboards, only 4  put up that number on Spyglass. Once the round is over there will be avg scores for each course, somewhere on-line

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