SLC cop shoots boy with Autism

[next2naus 439]

"Why didn't they tase him? Why didn't they shoot him with a rubber bullet?" Barton told the station. "He's a small child. Why don't you just tackle him? You are big police officers with massive amounts of resources."

 

Cops used to be tough, mentally and physically. Now they are by and large just strong guys who like to look tacticool and shoot people rather that get hurt while de-escalating a situation. it's all about getting home w/out a scratch and telling the story.  

[Brisketexan 105,691]

14 hours ago, TornACL said:

Fuck the police. 

The biggest mistake we as citizens made was to let the atrocious state of our police departments be framed into a racial issue. 

This is a societal issue. And again, fuck the police.

 

14 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

I’d say the bigger mistake is in thinking that because something is disproportionately a racial issue it isn’t also a societal issue. See also, covid. 

This.  It is a society issue.....that's bad enough.  But it's a societal issue that falls disproportionately on minorities (who, by the way, told us all about this societal issue for decades, and we ignored them).

Any given American has a chance of getting their ass beaten or shot by the cops because the cops are shite.

Make that a black American, and his chances double.

Both of those things are problems, and the second one clearly has a racial component.  The folks who suffer the MOST from a society problem are always going to be the people who bring it to our attention.  Maybe if we hadn't ignored them as "whining minorities who just like to bitch" for decades, we wouldn't be in this situation.

9 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Yep.  Most med students are given a crash course on their psych rotations on how to handle these situations.  It’s amazing thousands of students, counselors, social workers, psychologists, and psychiatrists manage to not die while not being armed.  
 

Oh that’s right, they’re not stupid motherfuckers. 

This.  Go to any major ER.  They deal with crazy/unhinged/belligerent/confused/physical patients every night....multiple times.  Yet they don't shoot people.  It can be done.

The problem here is simple -- what happened to this kid wasn't the system failing; it was the system working as designed.  Our system works this way because WE WANT IT TO.  We have fought tooth and nail to keep it this way, and to prevent any fix, any alternative (at the urging and manipulation of our PDs, who see any change or budget shift as a threat, and therefore characterize it and its opponents as evil anti-American soft on crime communism).  We have chosen this, over and over and over.

[ChiTownDoc 21,242]

And just a reminder about the police, fuck them.

[Poe It Up 126]

12 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

I’m not one to defend cops, and I’m not defending them here, but a lot of you are underestimating what a 13 y.o. Kid on the far end of the spectrum is capable of physically.  Once they begin to hit puberty, it can get REALLY fucking ugly.

This. I spent a good deal of my youth chaperoning a family member to Special Olympics events and I've seen quite a few meltdowns. It can be a very jarring experience, especially since health care workers/guardians tend to be women and they can do very little stop them. 

[conVINCEd 21,474]

1 hour ago, irishtexan said:

and yet, the rest of your post goes on to defend the cops.

I have personal experience with a 12 y.o. kid who attacked his babysitter, my wife, with a knife.  By the time I arrived on scene (probably about 5 minutes, I was 10 minutes away but drove really fucking fast) she had managed to lock him in his room and wedged a chair under the doorknob to keep him in there.  By that time he had come down from his manic state, but that bedroom looked like a tornado had gone through there.  Among other things, he had flipped over a dresser that I had a difficult time moving back into place myself.  I’m not going to give any more details, because there is a decent chance that there are a few people on here who know the family, but let’s just say that this family had unlimited resources to get this kid help, and it didn’t matter.

 

[UT_OB1 2,229]

4 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

This. I spent a good deal of my youth chaperoning a family member to Special Olympics events and I've seen quite a few meltdowns. It can be a very jarring experience, especially since health care workers/guardians tend to be women and they can do very little stop them. 

How many kids have you seen shot at the special Olympics?  Or did all those tiny fragile women find a way to handle the situation without killing the kids, unlike the cops in this story?

[ChickenSandwich 9,860]

37 minutes ago, next2naus said:

"Why didn't they tase him? Why didn't they shoot him with a rubber bullet?" Barton told the station. "He's a small child. Why don't you just tackle him? You are big police officers with massive amounts of resources."

 

Cops used to be tough, mentally and physically. Now they are by and large just strong guys who like to look tacticool and shoot people rather that get hurt while de-escalating a situation. it's all about getting home w/out a scratch and telling the story.  

1234

Edited September 9, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[Celery Man 21,036]

They should have special weapons training classes for officers who are afraid of children on the spectrum, and only those cops who have passed those "how to shoot a child on the spectrum properly" courses get to carry weapons into those situations, and they get a big fucking neon merit badge that goes on a sash that they wear all of the time.

[Poe It Up 126]

3 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

How many kids have you seen shot at the special Olympics?  Or did all those tiny fragile women find a way to handle the situation without killing the kids, unlike the cops in this story?

They did manage, but there were times (thankfully rare) that it took more than one person to calm them down. Like one poster previously said, it can be really fucking scary, especially if you've never dealt with it. Also, I don't think these women suffer from fragility, it's more about a physical strength disparity. 

[High Plains Drifter 11,077]

12 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

It was my understanding that, in most jurisdictions, one could become a dispatcher without law enforcement or medical training.  This is straight from a Round Rock firehouse captain and a recent AISD grad going into EMS service.  

 

My sister was a 911 operator for Milam County (yeah i know, bum fuck county) for some years. She had emt training but no police training.

 

[bad_teammate 13,340]

Care workers can often have the mentality "I'm going to get beat up a little, but I'm not going to get killed, and it's my responsibility to keep this damaged person safe" and are willing to deal with it. Bruises, sprains, even breaks. To a cop, it seems that the threat of a a kick to the nuts is indistinguishable from the threat of a bullet to the head.

Or the cop will just shoot one of the care workers who is lying on his back with his hands in the air, like Charles Kinsey.

[High Plains Drifter 11,077]

6 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

They did manage, but there were times (thankfully rare) that it took more than one person to calm them down. Like one poster previously said, it can be really fucking scary, especially if you've never dealt with it. Also, I don't think these women suffer from fragility, it's more about a physical strength disparity. 

 

so, if these women with a strength disparity can handle meltdowns, surely cops could too.

 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.

 

[ChiTownDoc 21,242]

49 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

How many kids have you seen shot at the special Olympics?  Or did all those tiny fragile women find a way to handle the situation without killing the kids, unlike the cops in this story?

Did those ladies talk nonstop shit about how they were lucky to make it home?  

[irishtexan 11,574]

18 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

They should have special weapons training classes for officers who are afraid of children on the spectrum, and only those cops who have passed those "how to shoot a child on the spectrum properly" courses get to carry weapons into those situations, and they get a big fucking neon merit badge that goes on a sash that they wear all of the time.

Better yet, take away their guns. Take away beat cops' guns and highway patrol, and traffic cops. Cops that respond to immediate threats have guns (and more training, and more accountability, and more pay, and more educational requirements). But as Brisket is so fond of saying, give a man a hammer, and everything looks like a nail. Let's take away most of their hammers.

[Poe It Up 126]

11 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

so, if these women with a strength disparity can handle meltdowns, surely cops could too.

 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here.

 

My point was agreeing with the previous poster about the reality of these situations. Somehow that got misconstrued into defending this particular cop. 

[UT_OB1 2,229]

33 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Did those ladies talk nonstop shit about how they were lucky to make it home?  

 And did they attend training siminars telling them how they’d have the best sex they ever had in their lives after these life threatening events?

[UT_OB1 2,229]

30 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

Better yet, take away their guns. Take away beat cops' guns and highway patrol, and traffic cops. Cops that respond to immediate threats have guns (and more training, and more accountability, and more pay, and more educational requirements). But as Brisket is so fond of saying, give a man a hammer, and everything looks like a nail. Let's take away most of their hammers.

So every tax collector shouldn’t carry around a gun, just the ones with special weapons and tactics training should be used to answer extraordinary and rare circumstances?  I wonder what we should call this group.

 

EDIT - I’m hitting a bit of a tangent here. I don’t mean to say that SWAT is necessary to handle this type of situation in OP. I mean people riding around writing fines and tickets don’t need a gun at all. If you’re not trained to escalate every situation you come across in life, then 99.999% of traffic stops and fines can be done with nothing more than a pen and paper. Cops are more at danger of getting hit by a passing car than they are of getting shot by “the enemy.”  You’ve got a license plate. Just let them drive off and mail a ticket. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by UT_OB1

[fattyflattie 4,639]

13 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

a lot of you are underestimating what a 13 y.o. Kid on the far end of the spectrum is capable of physically.  Once they begin to hit puberty, it can get REALLY fucking ugly.

My wife's entire career has been working with severely autistic kids, and young adults.  Every single one of her co-workers at some point has had broken nose, broken fingers, wrists, etc.   It does come with the job, sometimes.  Just like anyone else, pent up energy/rage/out of you mind and you can do some serious physical damage. 

A few years ago, we were having dinner at a little Mexican joint in Richmond.  There was a big family gathering at a table, probably 3 tables up from us.  Some stirring begins, and this very large teenager starts to lose his shit.  My wife had already seen him and noticed that he was deep somewhere on the spectrum, but that's normal shit you see every day (normal family having dinner, not the losing his shit part).  As soon as it started, she said don't look, and said he's got some things going on, just leave it alone.   Anyhow, the family starts trying to subdue him, and he is not having it.  Then a glass flies our way.  My kids were 6 mo, 24 mos, and 4.5 at the time, and start freaking out.  We are pinned in the back of this little offshoot dining room.  More shit starts flying.  Wife takes the baby and the other 2 kids and goes to the back of the room, shit is flying towards out table with regularity now.  Kid ruins a sibling.  Then does work on dad.  Throws female waitress who comes in. Scene looks like some WWE scripted shit, he's rolling thru his family.   Dude focuses on me, and takes about 5 steps towards us.  I'm thinking great, I'm 2 margatitas deep and about to have to try and subdue this fucking guy before he gets to my wife/kids.  Kid stopped, turned at walked out the door near his table.  As he's walking out the restaurant, he punches a big plate glass window - fucking blood EVERYWHERE.  His mom/aunt follows him out the restaurant.  About 45 seconds later, cops show up.  We never heard any shots so I assume he made out better than this kid.  Finished the wifes  margarita, left a $20 on the table, and walked out.   

That shit was scary.  I say all that to say the cops should not have had to shoot this kid in SLC.  These cops are afraid of an asswhipping, so they shoot people.  Dumb.  Taser him, cuff, him, beat on him with a stick if you have to.  Shooting is uncalled for imo.  

[Bevo&Pevo 5,400]

this is how you do it..

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/pasadena-boy-with-autism-surprised-by-freeport-police-escort-to-school/285-dfb91dbe-650f-4f66-b4d7-216e3cb1de33

Kudos to Freeport.

[Celery Man 21,036]

maybe my joke wasn't clear, but we should offer voluntary "shooting mentally disabled children effectively" courses for cops and when they show up they get deloused and thrown in jail

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,568]

A late teen boy in my neighborhood killed his grandfather a few years ago. It was described as a partial decapitation. They were alone together so other family members discovered it upon arriving home. The story also strongly implied that there was something like autism involved. There was also little discussion on the neighborhood FB page out of respect for the family. 

Surprisingly the Houston media didn't catch onto the story much. I think the DA allowed some plea deal that involved long term hospitalization.

I don't know much about the SLC story but IF the boy had a weapon, the situation changes. Having a mental illness or developmental issue isn't an extenuating circumstance if someone is threatened. Also if the boy has episodes that his mom cannot control, she needs to find other options. I can't believe she called the police. You can't call the police and dictate how they handle the situation. Once you make the call, you lose all control.  Very sad story.

[bad_teammate 13,340]

26 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Also if the boy has episodes that his mom cannot control, she needs to find other options. I can't believe she called the police. You can't call the police and dictate how they handle the situation. Once you make the call, you lose all control.  Very sad story.

I'm not saying your intention is the same as this person, but #NoPolitics this reminds me of when a certain losing loser who lost said "Keep shopping!" to a woman who said she couldn't afford health insurance.

We, as citizens, shouldn't have to know how to navigate this, our services that we pay for should be the experts in routing this and, as mentioned above, punisher-tattoo-guys-with-guns should be far down the list of who the dispatcher sends out. The dispatcher and responding servants are the ones who are in an easier position to determine the most peaceful way to handle things, not necessarily the person harried into making the call.

If we all agreed socially to say "Never call police" and that's what we taught our kids collectively that would be fine, but we can't say that because it's not politically correct and we're supposed to buy into copaganda like cops on the basketball court and tell our kids police are good. If we taught, "These are dangerous men you only call if someone needs to die" in schools we might be better equipped to navigate situations like this.

[Brisketexan 105,691]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I'm not saying your intention is the same as this person, but #NoPolitics this reminds me of when a certain losing loser who lost said "Keep shopping!" to a woman who said she couldn't afford health insurance.

We, as citizens, shouldn't have to know how to navigate this, our services that we pay for should be the experts in routing this and, as mentioned above, punisher-tattoo-guys-with-guns should be far down the list of who the dispatcher sends out. The dispatcher and responding servants are the ones who are in an easier position to determine the most peaceful way to handle things, not necessarily the person harried into making the call.

If we all agreed socially to say "Never call police" and that's what we taught our kids collectively that would be fine, but we can't say that because it's not politically correct and we're supposed to buy into copaganda like cops on the basketball court and tell our kids police are good. If we taught, "These are dangerous men you only call if someone needs to die" in schools we might be better equipped to navigate situations like this.

Here's a question.....do other Western democracies kill the shit out of their mentally ill/autistic citizens?  No?  Huh, we ought to look into what those nations do, and maybe learn from it.  I am pretty sure that a significant element of that is "we don't send armed cops acting on a hair trigger to mental health calls."  And, I'm betting they have some sort of actual mental health care system.  But, you know, that's probably too obvious.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Brisketexan

[TwiceHorn 31,705]

20 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

gosh.  seeing that much empathy really brings a tear to your eye. heroes, all.

I mean, it's accurate to the extent that the investigation needs to be conducted  before making conclusions.

But, godalmighty, what a terrible statement.

Also, his inner cop is pretty much showing.

[bad_teammate 13,340]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Here's a question.....do other Western democracies kill the shit out of their mentally ill/autistic citizens?  No?  Huh, we ought to look into what those nations do, and maybe learn from it.  I am pretty sure that a significant element of that is "we don't send armed cops acting on a hair trigger to mental health calls."  But, you know, that's probably too obvious.

I'm ready for you!

1) Their countries are physically smaller which matters because of reasons.
2) Also, they don't have THOSE people. *wink* *wink*

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11,669]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Care workers can often have the mentality "I'm going to get beat up a little, but I'm not going to get killed, and it's my responsibility to keep this damaged person safe" and are willing to deal with it. Bruises, sprains, even breaks. To a cop, it seems that the threat of a a kick to the nuts is indistinguishable from the threat of a bullet to the head.

Or the cop will just shoot one of the care workers who is lying on his back with his hands in the air, like Charles Kinsey.

this was my favorite one, because the explanation was "i wasn't trying to shoot the guy with his hands in the air.  i was trying to shoot the autistic kid, who definitely deserved to be shot, by my gun, which i definitely am very good at using."

[conVINCEd 21,474]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Here's a question.....do other Western democracies kill the shit out of their mentally ill/autistic citizens?  No?  Huh, we ought to look into what those nations do, and maybe learn from it.  I am pretty sure that a significant element of that is "we don't send armed cops acting on a hair trigger to mental health calls."  And, I'm betting they have some sort of actual mental health care system.  But, you know, that's probably too obvious.

Why are you comparing the US to other Western democracies?  I don’t think we belong to that club anymore.

[Brisketexan 105,691]

3 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Why are you comparing the US to other Western democracies?  I don’t think we belong to that club anymore.

No shit.

But shit....compare us to some B-teamers, even.  Most of them have us beaten, as well.

[next2naus 439]

political rant.....I wonder is a better system of health care would help? It probably would but that would all people paying (being taxed) for it and mot Americans are selfish fucks and fear "free loaders"....end scene.

[irishtexan 11,574]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

A late teen boy in my neighborhood killed his grandfather a few years ago. It was described as a partial decapitation. They were alone together so other family members discovered it upon arriving home. The story also strongly implied that there was something like autism involved. There was also little discussion on the neighborhood FB page out of respect for the family. 

Surprisingly the Houston media didn't catch onto the story much. I think the DA allowed some plea deal that involved long term hospitalization.

I don't know much about the SLC story but IF the boy had a weapon, the situation changes. Having a mental illness or developmental issue isn't an extenuating circumstance if someone is threatened. Also if the boy has episodes that his mom cannot control, she needs to find other options. I can't believe she called the police. You can't call the police and dictate how they handle the situation. Once you make the call, you lose all control.  Very sad story.

One of the problems, as I see it, is that police have been granted a faaaaaaaar too liberal interpretation of what constitutes a "weapon", and therefore justification for use of deadly force. 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

1 hour ago, Bevo&Pevo said:

this is how you do it..

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/pasadena-boy-with-autism-surprised-by-freeport-police-escort-to-school/285-dfb91dbe-650f-4f66-b4d7-216e3cb1de33

Kudos to Freeport.

A cop who understands. Thanks for the link. 

[ChiTownDoc 21,242]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

I mean, it's accurate to the extent that the investigation needs to be conducted  before making conclusions.

But, godalmighty, what a terrible statement.

Also, his inner cop is pretty much showing.

It’s very accurate.  The lady can say whatever she wants.  And the cops can shoot whoever they want.  Facts 

[immamac 43,701]

There are a few things that warrant comments or nuking because of the alternative humor of this place, but in this thread making r-word jokes or autism jokes is off limits. Keep this thread light-hearted in other ways if you want.

[Sawbonz 27,795]

6 hours ago, next2naus said:

"Why didn't they tase him? Why didn't they shoot him with a rubber bullet?" Barton told the station. "He's a small child. Why don't you just tackle him? You are big police officers with massive amounts of resources."

 

Cops used to be tough, mentally and physically. Now they are by and large just strong guys who like to look tacticool and shoot people rather that get hurt while de-escalating a situation. it's all about getting home w/out a scratch and telling the story.  

And use anabolic steroids 

[Guest Lobo]

16 minutes ago, immamac said:

There are a few things that warrant comments or nuking because of the alternative humor of this place, but in this thread making r-word jokes or autism jokes is off limits. Keep this thread light-hearted in other ways if you want.

Making the "r-word" off limits severely restricts the vocabulary of half the posters on this site.  

But thank you for calling our dementedness "alternative humor."  That should sit better with the Grand Jury when we're all brought before them.  

[Sawbonz 27,795]

I had a patient who was a paranoid schizophrenic and his mom called 911 on him one time when he was having a psychotic freakout in the back yard. Cops got there before the ambulance, he got belligerent, and they lit him up.  Tried to say he menaced them w a knife. This was before body cams but one of the neighbors taped the whole thing. He has sitting in a lawn chair cussing them and when he stood up they started shooting. He got a pretty big settlement not sure what happened to the cops

I saw him about a year after the shooting because he still had a bullet in his ass cheek that he could feel whenever he sat down. He was a total asshole to the staff and they hated him but he was always nice to me /csb 

[Brisketexan 105,691]

3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I had a patient who was a paranoid schizophrenic and his mom called 911 on him one time when he was having a psychotic freakout in the back yard. Cops got there before the ambulance, he got belligerent, and they lit him up.  Tried to say he menaced them w a knife. This was before body cams but one of the neighbors taped the whole thing. He has sitting in a lawn chair cussing them and when he stood up they started shooting. He got a pretty big settlement not sure what happened to the cops

I saw him about a year after the shooting because he still had a bullet in his ass cheek that he could feel whenever he sat down. He was a total asshole to the staff and they hated him but he was always nice to me /csb 

Yep.  Here are the problems:

1) cops apparently LIKE to use force

2) cops are too quick to resort to real and deadly force

3) cops have no idea how to deal with mental illness and the like

4) cops LIE

5) their fellow cops will join in the lie

All are on display in your story.  That's a toxic fucking stew of shitbaggery.

[freyguy 4,335]

But is this not progress?  They're now shooting white kids in the back.

[conVINCEd 21,474]

48 minutes ago, freyguy said:

But is this not progress?  They're now shooting white kids in the back.

It’s Salt Lake City, there is a lack of available black targets once you get past the Jazz players and their families, and killing an NBA player or one of their family members would be a bad look right now.

 

[ChiTownDoc 21,242]

6 hours ago, irishtexan said:

One of the problems, as I see it, is that police have been granted a faaaaaaaar too liberal interpretation of what constitutes a "weapon", and therefore justification for use of deadly force. 

Can you imagine them at the special olympics?  Timmy holding a shotput?  PUT HIM DOWN. 

We're gonna need more ammo. 

[RPM 26,432]

If only there was a training film teaching police how to deal with the mentally disturbed.