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lordy i hope there are tapes (woodward book/tapes)

hayden_horn

By hayden_horn
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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27434

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

If only trump had jumped up and down over and over again we might have been able to contain the virus. Alas, he chose not to jump up and down and jump up and down and instead decided to just lie his ass off to everyone and do absolutely nothing. Good plan.

Is there something between jumping up and down and screaming “death” and doing absolutely nothing? Like maybe modeling mask wear and calling for increased testing? I guess that’s crazy talk 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104624

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“Can you imagine Trump handling an actual crisis?”
This question was raised countless times during the years 2015-2019...many in power knew he was capable of this and most on the GOP side didn’t give a shit.  

This was the #1 reason that I used in arguing against people who were going trumps way - he is completely unequipped and incapable of handling a major crisis. Nuclear threat, terrorist attack, pandemic (yep, I actually used that example on occasion), we all KNOW he would utterly fail. But we gave him the wheel anyway...and he did what we all knew he would do: steered us right over the cliff.
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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Is there something between jumping up and down and screaming “death” and doing absolutely nothing? Like maybe modeling mask wear and calling for increased testing? I guess that’s crazy talk 

Nope.

Every challenge in life comes down to a choice of either THIS, or THAT. 2D Checkers. 

And even when Trump has a 50-50 chance of getting it right, he still makes the wrong choice.

Edited by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand
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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13049

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49 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Nominal is right.  The best of Trump's voters in 2020 will let you or one of your family member's be killed by a virus so they can have have a pro haircut, get a tax break, own an arsenal, live in a vastly white neighborhood, avoid a dilution of their power, maintain their privilege or otherwise enjoy any of the various perks that a Trump presidency might beget them. Eat food that has been prepped for their consumption w/o little penalty or compensation for the life given.

These people are just as transactional as he is.  Their decision tree is a straight line consisting of two nodes:  Trump benefits me -> vote trump.  Who else might suffer or even die as a result of his horrific failed leadership is not part of their calculus because they are as just as devoid of empathy as Trump is.

See bold above. $3,373.75 each. Making America Great Again, One Pork Chop and Four Lives at a Time.

*According to the reporter, the company will probably be able to negotiate the penalty down to a lower sum.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104624

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See bold above. $3,373.75 each. Making America Great Again, One Pork Chop and Four Lives at a Time.
*According to the reporter, the company will probably be able to negotiate the penalty down to a lower sum.

Yeah....but they were brown. Remember how slaves used to count as 3/5 of a person?

In MAGAmerica, brown people count for 1/35th of a person. Maybe less, but who knows, because math is for libtards.
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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13049

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:


In MAGAmerica, brown people count for 1/35th of a person.

Not in MY America. I am so pissed that the MAGATs believe they have cornered the market on patriotism when it would hit them in the face like a rake if they stepped on it. They use flags as weapons and certainly abuse the ideals of the American flag without even understand most of what it was designed to represent.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31280

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

See bold above. $3,373.75 each. Making America Great Again, One Pork Chop and Four Lives at a Time.

*According to the reporter, the company will probably be able to negotiate the penalty down to a lower sum.

That's a terrible tweet.

That's the highest fine OSHA can assess for a single violation.  And that was established years before Trump or the Coronavirus.

You can gripe about OSHA and that's legit.  Obviously, Trump and Coronavirus are worthy of criticism.

But the three are unconnected here.

 

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13049

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This is from April, in Forbes:
 

Quote

 

South Dakota is one of the few states that has not instituted a shelter-in-place order, a decision that Governor Kristi Noem defended. “Let's be perfectly clear: a shelter-in-place order would NOT have prevented Smithfield from happening. They are a critical infrastructure business. They are part of the nation's food supply chain and contribute to South Dakota's role feeding the country and the world,” Noem tweeted on April 15. The Republican governor added that she has been in communication with Vice President Mike Pence and Smithfield’s CEO, and a team from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has arrived to help assess the situation.

“As a leading global food and protein company, WH Group is committed to continuously providing safe, nutritious and delicious food to its consumers. Amid the COVID-19 outbreak, our subsidiary Smithfield has been adopting a series of stringent and detailed processes and protocols," a spokesperson from WH Group said in a statement.

 

No one would argue that the world needs food to eat. But this was about profit loss not human loss.

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Brandywine

Brandywine 1313

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1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

He didn’t just grant interviews. Apparently Trump would call him up in the middle of the night like a teen with a crush 

He thought his velvety smooth talking, hypnotic smile and unmatched top notch salesman skills would win Bob over. He had this. Putty in his hands.

He was wrong.

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's the highest fine OSHA can assess for a single violation.  And that was established years before Trump or the Coronavirus.

You can gripe about OSHA and that's legit.  Obviously, Trump and Coronavirus are worthy of criticism.

One of my first cases with the DOL was working on a case against a chemical company where we simply multiplied the penalty by the number of employees exposed to the hazard and came up with a cool $4.2 million fine.  Fucking Fifth Circuit would have none of it. 

We won the case and collected about 10K.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

He didn’t just grant interviews. Apparently Trump would call him up in the middle of the night like a teen with a crush 

I can relate to this. Back in law school when I was lonely on a weekend and drunk I would call up one of my friends from high school or college just to chat them up. I was never gonna be the president though and I never took a speed type drug and called up reporters. So I guess it’s not the same. 

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Is there something between jumping up and down and screaming “death” and doing absolutely nothing? Like maybe modeling mask wear and calling for increased testing? I guess that’s crazy talk 

No. You either jump up and down screaming death or you do nothing. There are no other options. 

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UncleCharlie

UncleCharlie 334

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1 hour ago, tantric superman said:

One of my first cases with the DOL was working on a case against a chemical company where we simply multiplied the penalty by the number of employees exposed to the hazard and came up with a cool $4.2 million fine.  Fucking Fifth Circuit would have none of it. 

We won the case and collected about 10K.

Why didn't you file a case for each employee individually?

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

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11 minutes ago, UncleCharlie said:

Why didn't you file a case for each employee individually?

I don't think OSHA has ever gone that direction.  And it doesn't file on behalf of employees - it files on behalf of the Secretary.  Plaintiffs attorneys clean up on filing on behalf of individual employees.

At that time we were filing under the "General Duty Clause" - Section 5(a)(1).   “Each employer shall furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees.”. 

We never went with a theory that each condition was a separate violation.  Probably just too metaphysical an idea.  But the courts also said you can't cite mulitple violations of the same condition because a condition only needs to be corrected once -- not for every employee that was exposed. But we argued that the clause allowed us increase the penalty of a willful by saying that a single condition exposed large numbers of employees.  So in explosion cases, with multiple injuries, we could easily show lots of exposure to numerous employees.  

At the same time, we were really pushing the "willful" aspect -- classifying very serious conditions as willful because, well, they were just really really serious. The term of art was egregious violations.

Established in the mid-1980s, the "egregious violations" policy instructs OSHA inspectors to cite employers for multiple violations of the same standard where the employer has demonstrated one or more of the following characteristics: (1) persistently high rates of illness/injury or fatalities; (2) extensive history of prior violations; (3) intentional disregard of health and safety responsibilities; or (4) bad faith (a plain indifference to standards or requirements).

The courts thought we were pushing the language of the statute too hard.   And eventually they threw out the egregious violations methodology. 

Edited by tantric superman
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31280

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8 minutes ago, UncleCharlie said:

Why didn't you file a case for each employee individually?

OSHA works against companies, but not on behalf of individual workers. 

You can get into some higher fines, but for repeat violations that become willful.  Twice I have been at the court of appeals and had to sit through OSHA oral arguments waiting for my turn.  Boring as fuck.

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

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2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Twice I have been at the court of appeals and had to sit through OSHA oral arguments waiting for my turn.  Boring as fuck.

The appeals cases are the exciting ones.  The administrative hearings, those are the sleepers.

Reminds me of one I had regarding a machine shop.  About 10 different "no guard" type violations.  At one point the pro se shop owner stands up.

"Let the records reflect that the judge is sleeping." he said.

The judge came out of his slumber and yelled "Let the record reflect that I am not!"

Most of the violations were affirmed, but the judge ended up cutting the penalties.  Like they always did for the pro se guys.

 

p e

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29256

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36 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, I get it too.  But that is a generalized objection to OSHA, it has naught to do with the Trump Administration or Covid.

I think that’s why the tweet was bitching about what a worker’s life in America is worth, and not something specific to Trump or covid.

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21101

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52 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

My favorite Trumpers are the ones that still whatabout Benghazi to this day in the face of all this shit. 

I've noticed a change recently...many are openly just 'fuck libtards'...before there was some excuse or another and now we're at a point where the majority of them admit Trump is a complete and utter POS but you fight fire with fire.  Fuck all of them.  Every opportunity I get, I call these mouth breathing fucksticks out.  Never give up.  Never let it slide.  I usually mix in a heavy Charlton Heston laugh when they're blabbering on and on.  That's a highly recommended move.  

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31280

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33 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I think that’s why the tweet was bitching about what a worker’s life in America is worth, and not something specific to Trump or covid.

Actually, I guess that's true.  I read into the tweet the context provided by this thread and Mrs. Whiggins' commentary. 

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25898

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30 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I've noticed a change recently...many are openly just 'fuck libtards'...before there was some excuse or another and now we're at a point where the majority of them admit Trump is a complete and utter POS but you fight fire with fire.  Fuck all of them.  Every opportunity I get, I call these mouth breathing fucksticks out.  Never give up.  Never let it slide.  I usually mix in a heavy Charlton Heston laugh when they're blabbering on and on.  That's a highly recommended move.  

at home depot today.  Parked, got out of the car.  A guy in his 20's drove past in a shit ford ranger, rap music blasting.  Had two big flags mounted in the bed.  An American flag, in good condition, and a fucked up "Trump 2020: FUCK YOUR FEELINGS" flag.  

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I've noticed a change recently...many are openly just 'fuck libtards'...before there was some excuse or another and now we're at a point where the majority of them admit Trump is a complete and utter POS but you fight fire with fire.  Fuck all of them.  Every opportunity I get, I call these mouth breathing fucksticks out.  Never give up.  Never let it slide.  I usually mix in a heavy Charlton Heston laugh when they're blabbering on and on.  That's a highly recommended move.  

Laughing at them is my go-to as well. They get so pissed. It's awesome. When they're out in the world spouting their obnoxious nonsense, they want an "argument" which is really just them choosing a zinger! to get you with out of their quiver of about four arrows. Laughing doesn't open any doors to a conversation and it makes them feel small and disregarded, which they are.

It rules. Although use it carefully, it provokes the shit out of them. Like if you get the wrong person, it could start a fist fight. I don't look like someone that you want to fuck with, otherwise I might not deploy it as much.

Edited by BradInATX
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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Posted

The bigger story not really being discussed with the Woodward tapes isn’t that Trump lied about knowing how bad covid was; it’s that he knew and still did nothing as far as a national strategy.

It would be one thing if he downplayed the virus publicly while also working behind the scenes to minimize the death toll.  Instead he not only did next to nothing on the federal level but also made it more difficult for states and local governments to respond while also downplaying the virus publicly.  This was some evil shit. 

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4th&Five

4th&Five 41461

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3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The bigger story not really being discussed with the Woodward tapes isn’t that Trump lied about knowing how bad covid was; it’s that he knew and still did nothing as far as a national strategy.

It would be one thing if he downplayed the virus publicly while also working behind the scenes to minimize the death toll.  Instead he not only did next to nothing on the federal level but also made it more difficult for states and local governments to respond while also downplaying the virus publicly.  This was some evil shit. 

This is still the case too. 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45495

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1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

This is still the case too. 

Yep.  It's wild.  This should have been a fucking layup for him and he hasn't even gotten off the bench.  Hell, he may as well be scoring points for the other team.  For someone whose only concern is getting re-elected, he is too fucking stupid to do the bare minimum.

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