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Chiefs vs Texans: 2020 NFL Season Opener

Vic Mackey

By Vic Mackey
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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46936

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4 hours ago, Dewey said:

Funny to listen to Collinsworth talk up the trade for the rb, something along the lines of " a lot of angry fans", then has the game progressed and the Texans needed a deep threat, nothing there, silence.  It was an absolute horrible trade, they downgraded the offense. On top of that, O'Brian coaches like its the 90s, super conservative with timeouts,  no risk taking, while his opponents take risk and pounce. 

I do not really care as I am not a Texans fan at all but this trade made absolutely zero sense when it happened. Watson already has no real OL to speak off. Stills is always injured. So you decide to take away the biggest threat on the field for your young QB? Lmao. Defenses no longer have to worry about the big threat Hopkins brought to the field. He opened up so much and he was so damn good. Spare me we wanted to dump him before he wanted a huge contract narrative. Guess what? You have to pay good players in sports a lot of money. The salary cap continues to rise. Teams easily can structure these deals to make it team friendly for the cap and dump the big money towards the end. There is always an out for these NFL contracts unlike other sports. Even the buffoon Jerry Jones would not have made that trade and knows you need playmakers at WR to win in today's game. Hence the contract for Amari (who isn't even as good as Hopkins) and drafting Lamb in the 1st round.

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46936

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This is why I don't put a lot of stock in PFF. They try too hard to dissect the sport and sound "smart" with their grades. They judge every single play. Except, every single play is not created equal. Watson put up garbage time stats when the game was over and KC was in cruise control to close out the win. I watched the game. I did not come away thinking Watson played better than Mahomes. 

 

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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2 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

This is why I don't put a lot of stock in PFF. They try too hard to dissect the sport and sound "smart" with their grades. I watched the game. I did not come away thinking Watson played better than Mahomes.

 

I definitely don’t look at this as the Bible of evaluating talent, but they do it better than anyone else. I’d love to know their reasoning behind this grade.

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Fozzz

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4 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

This is why I don't put a lot of stock in PFF. They try too hard to dissect the sport and sound "smart" with their grades. They judge every single play. Except, every single play is not created equal. Watson put up garbage time stats when the game was over and KC was in cruise control to close out the win. I watched the game. I did not come away thinking Watson played better than Mahomes. 

 

Why should the grading be context dependent?  The objective of grades isn't necessarily to say that one player was more valuable (in terms of win probability added) than another in a given game.

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Chooky

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20 minutes ago, Bevo VIII said:

The Hopkins trade is so bad for their offense. Contractually not a bad trade but realistically it’s so so fucking bad. No receiver on their team could create separation or space from the KC defense. Hopkins demanded a double team from defenses that helped other receivers.

He's definitely not Hopkins, but Will Fuller had a steady game and he's not easy to cover.  O'Brien puts Watson in 3rd and long consistently and the obvious passing downs brought intense pressure.  The Texans offense seems capable but O'Brien seems like he sucks.

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BurntOrange&White

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He's definitely not Hopkins, but Will Fuller had a steady game and he's not easy to cover.  O'Brien puts Watson in 3rd and long consistently and the obvious passing downs brought intense pressure.  The Texans offense seems capable but O'Brien seems like he sucks.

Fuller is a nothing better than #2 receiver on a team. No matter how optimistic you’re trying to be he will never do more than that or command a double team.
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Brothahorn

Brothahorn 10085

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1 minute ago, Chooky said:

He's definitely not Hopkins, but Will Fuller had a steady game and he's not easy to cover.  O'Brien puts Watson in 3rd and long consistently and the obvious passing downs brought intense pressure.  The Texans offense seems capable but O'Brien seems like he sucks.

Fuller has the talent, but he won't stay healthy. So you can't depend on him. Adding that to the terrible play calling will get Watson killed.

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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The only reason you would adjust the grading of a particular play based on leverage (e.g., by throwing out garbage time plays entirely) when you are otherwise accounting for the context of the play (air yardage of a throw, ball placement, tightness of the window, decision making, etc.) would be because players can magically ratchet up/down their true talent level in accordance with the amount of leverage for a given play.  This isn't true for football or for any other sport, and moreover makes no logical sense.  

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 18998

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10 minutes ago, Chooky said:

He's definitely not Hopkins, but Will Fuller had a steady game and he's not easy to cover.  O'Brien puts Watson in 3rd and long consistently and the obvious passing downs brought intense pressure.  The Texans offense seems capable but O'Brien seems like he sucks.

This is the biggest issue for the Texans, even more than getting rid of Hopkins. BOB calls plays like he’s trying to get to third and long with a poor pass blocking OL. Watson’s so talented, he’s able to overcome that a lot, but a good amount of those conversions were Watson to Hopkins and that’s not there anymore. BOB’s a way worse GM than he is a coach, but he’s still a shitty coach. 

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Chooky

Chooky 13302

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3 minutes ago, Bevo VIII said:


Fuller is a nothing better than #2 receiver on a team. No matter how optimistic you’re trying to be he will never do more than that or command a double team.

I'm not trying to be optimistic.  I don't care what happens to the Texans.  I think the Texans can still be a fairly dynamic offense but O'Brien is dedicated to his own bullshit until it results in being down two possessions late in the game.  His stubbornness was on display last year.  As to Fuller, I'm just recognizing that he had a solid game in response to the obvious absence on that roster.  I know nothing about his durability.  He had a good night.  No, I don't think he'll frighten any defense.

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46936

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59 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Why should the grading be context dependent?  The objective of grades isn't necessarily to say that one player was more valuable (in terms of win probability added) than another in a given game.

Because in sports, every play is not played in a vacuum and separately from every other play. A game evolves over the course. Every play has context to the game situation. To reward a player for putting up stats in garbage time when the opposing time did not care if you moved the ball because the game was over and giving him a higher score is so misleading and why PFF is lame. That is not how you watch sports or how sports works at all.

Mahomes TD's he threw actually meant something in the context of the game. Watson's did not. That has to account for something. The weight of your stats in garbage time should not count the same when the game was in the balance.

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Fozzz

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1 minute ago, Vic Mackey said:

Because in sports, every play is not played in a vacuum and separately from every other play. A game evolves over the course. Every play has context to the game situation. To reward a player for putting up stats in garbage time when the opposing time did not care if you moved the ball because the game was over and giving him a higher score is so misleading and why PFF is lame. That is not how you watch sports or how sports works at all.

Mahomes TD's he threw actually meant something in the context of the game. Watson's did not. That has to account for something. The weight of your stats in garbage time should not count the same when the game was in the balance.

You're assuming that they are not taking that additional context into consideration, which is incorrect.  

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BurntOrange&White

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Because in sports, every play is not played in a vacuum and separately from every other play. A game evolves over the course. Every play has context to the game situation. To reward a player for putting up stats in garbage time when the opposing time did not care if you moved the ball because the game was over and giving him a higher score is so misleading and why PFF is lame. That is not how you watch sports or how sports works at all.
Mahomes TD's he threw actually meant something in the context of the game. Watson's did not. That has to account for something. The weight of your stats in garbage time should not count the same when the game was in the balance.

QBR does that and QBR is dog shit
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mininghorn88

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2 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Pretty sure they’re factoring this in as well 

Watson can’t control that. He has to play hero ball when your line is just getting worked.

That looks like me when I play basketball with much younger guys.  They run around so much that they consistently come back into the space that I am defending!  I move about 25% of the amount they do but cover them about 75% of the time.

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Wally Pryor

Wally Pryor 5244

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5 hours ago, Cornfusion said:

Or else a lot of them are just football fans and bought tickets to see a football game and would like to see only that football game.  How twisted is that???

And they were unbridled, naive saps who thought they were going to see something different? As such, should have stayed at home, DVR'd, and cradled their Buds until the kickoff occurred. 

We're in month 4 of getting it shoved down our throats.   You really think the NFL was (is) going to change when the path has already been laid out for them?   If so, your head's way too deep in the sand. Way too deep.

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Fozzz

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7 hours ago, Wally Pryor said:

And they were unbridled, naive saps who thought they were going to see something different? As such, should have stayed at home, DVR'd, and cradled their Buds until the kickoff occurred. 

We're in month 4 of getting it shoved down our throats.   You really think the NFL was (is) going to change when the path has already been laid out for them?   If so, your head's way too deep in the sand. Way too deep.

It’s still tiring. 

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youdunnf'dup

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9 hours ago, Bevo VIII said:


They were getting worked by 3-5 man pressures.

Exactly. I don’t blindly trust PFF, but they clearly put in hrs and hrs of studying. A lot more trust worthy than anyone’s eyes test. It’s almost impossible to give a fair grade to a qb if his oline is just trash. 

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Is anyone doubting Watson's ability?  I certainly don't. Did he have a better game than Mahomes?  Fuck no.

Watson's also fighting incredible ineptitude on his team's coaching staff as well as not having remotely the same arsenal as PMII.  My biggest question on the Texans offense has nothing to do with Watson, but rather, what the fuck happened to First Quarter David Johnson and the play calling?

Watson is a great QB with virtually no help at the LOS or on the sideline.  Nobody with a brain holds that against him.  It's fucking sad, really.

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11 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Watson is pretty good, maybe as good as Dak. He does have a bad habit of holding on to the ball though. 

he owns some of that, yes; but his WRs and TEs have to create some separation too.  He got virtually no help.  His receivers had a couple of drops that hurt.  I thought Watson was trying to get too cute with all of the jump passes and whatnot.  It hurt his accuracy later in the second half, but they were trying to come back as well, so there's more risk taking.

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youdunnf'dup

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16 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Watson is pretty good, maybe as good as Dak. He does have a bad habit of holding on to the ball though. 

Could you imagine what he could do in our offense where teams actually have to respect the play action? Or a team that has more than 1 receiving option that can consistently get separation? I feel like we would probably think of him as the consensus 3rd best qb in the league after mahomes and Russell Wilson if he had a situation like that. But Houston has done him no favors, while we’ve spent 4-5 years making the offense as “Dak friendly” as possible. 

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Fozzz

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44 minutes ago, slorch said:

he owns some of that, yes; but his WRs and TEs have to create some separation too.  He got virtually no help.  His receivers had a couple of drops that hurt.  I thought Watson was trying to get too cute with all of the jump passes and whatnot.  It hurt his accuracy later in the second half, but they were trying to come back as well, so there's more risk taking.

I don’t think he was really guilty of doing this on Thursday, although it’s a problem that has been a persistent problem for him in the past. BOB is obviously the main culprit and the way he has been permitted to manage the org does not speak well to the oversight provided by the McNairs. Good owners hire well and provide oversight. The McNairs on the other hand are fucking idiots and the Texans fans best hope for the future of the franchise is a Donald Sterling situation. 

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Chad

Chad 1728

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Houston's offense just isn't the same with Hopkins gone, they couldn't do anything against KC until garbage time. Who thought it was a good idea to compile a list of starting wide receivers that consist of Stills, Cooks and Fuller? None of them can stay healthy and they're all similar skill sets. I don't see Houston finishing any better than 3rd in the division, Indy and Tennessee made good off season moves and Houston made one of the worst trades in NFL history and have a toilet paper offensive line.

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youdunnf'dup

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3 minutes ago, Chad said:

Houston's offense just isn't the same with Hopkins gone, they couldn't do anything against KC until garbage time. Who thought it was a good idea to compile a list of starting wide receivers that consist of Stills, Cooks and Fuller? None of them can stay healthy and they're all similar skill sets. I don't see Houston finishing any better than 3rd in the division, Indy and Tennessee made good off season moves and Houston made one of the worst trades in NFL history and have a toilet paper offensive line.

I think some of the other night was a byproduct of no preseason and limited reps. Fuller was the only wr on the team that had caught a pass from Watson (he targeted stills once). I don’t expect cooks to be Hopkins obviously, but I think overtime he will be a reliable option if he stays healthy. To a lesser extent, same goes for Cobb. Point being I don’t think the wrs are going to look this bad all year, but the problem is Houston’s early season schedule is as brutal as I can ever remember. 

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