West wildfire politics thread.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

We apparently need one.  Thanks, clapclapclap. The DT safe space strikes again.

 

 

So, to counter:

 

Quote

 

Oregon Police Beg Public to Stop Calling In False Reports Blaming Antifa for Wildfires
False claims that antifascists are starting forest fires have been spread by supporters of President Donald Trump.

FOUR POLICE DEPARTMENTS in parts of Oregon ravaged by wildfires — propelled by high winds across parched land during hot, dry weather in a changing climate — are pleading with the public to stop calling 911 to pass on unfounded rumors that antifascist political activists have intentionally set the blazes.

The false claims have been spread on social networks by supporters of President Donald Trump, who has spent months pretending that antifascists in the Pacific Northwest dedicated to confronting white supremacists are members of an imaginary army of domestic terrorists called Antifa.

Primed by that fear-mongering, the president’s supporters have fallen hard for internet hoaxes falsely claiming that antifascist arsonists have been caught in the act.

“Rumors spread just like wildfire and now our 9-1-1 dispatchers and professional staff are being overrun with requests for information and inquiries on an UNTRUE rumor that 6 Antifa members have been arrested for setting fires,” the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office in Roseburg, Oregon wrote on Facebook on Thursday. “THIS IS NOT TRUE! Unfortunately, people are spreading this rumor and it is causing problems.”

One prominent Trump supporter who spread the false information about arrests in Douglas County and has refused to retract it is Paul Romero, who finished second in the Oregon Republican primary for the U.S. Senate in May, with more than 100,000 votes.

The Jackson County Sheriff’s Office in southwestern Oregon was also forced to respond to the spread of rumors on Thursday. “One increasingly problematic issue related to the disastrous fires in Jackson County is the spreading of false information,” the sheriff’s office wrote on Facebook. “We are inundated with questions about things that are FAKE stories. One example is a story circulating that varies about what group is involved as to setting fires and arrests being made. THIS IS NOT TRUE!”

While the authorities in Jackson County have opened an arson investigation into the Almeda Fire, which has caused at least two deaths and destroyed hundreds of homes, Ashland Police Chief Tighe O’Meara told The Oregonian, a Portland newspaper, that there was no evidence of any link to antifascist activists.

“One thing I can say is that the rumor it was set by Antifa is 100 per cent false information,” the police chief wrote in an email. “We have some leads, and none of it points in that direction.”

Rich Tyler, a spokesman for the Oregon fire marshal, told Reuters that it was not yet clear that any of the fires in the state had been deliberately set. “Every fire is investigated for the possibility of arson so that we can either determine it is or rule it out,” he said.

Police officers in the badly hit city of Medford also had to take time away from responding to the crisis to debunk a hoax Facebook post, mocked up to look like it had come from their department, which claimed that they had arrested five arsonists “based on anonymous tips.”

“This is a made up graphic and story,” the department wrote on its real Facebook page next to an image of the fake one. “We did not arrest this person for arson, nor anyone affiliated with Antifa or ‘Proud Boys’ as we’ve heard throughout the day. Also, no confirmed gatherings of Antifa which has also been reported.”

On Wednesday, police officers in Molalla, a city in Clackamas County which was evacuated on Thursday, asked residents who remained in town to report possible suspicious activity by thieves amid what the department called a spate of “rumors” about looters spreading on Facebook.

The department’s Facebook appeal was then wrongly cited as evidence of “Antifa arsonists” by Katie Daviscourt, a member of the Trump-supporting Turning Point USA. “Multiple sources in Emergency Response have confirmed that the fires along the West Coast are caused by dozens of arsonists,” Daviscourt tweeted above an image of the Molalla Facebook post. “These fires are allegedly linked to Antifa and the Riots.”

After nearly 3,000 people shared Daviscourt’s fever dream, the Molalla police department added a clarification to its post, reading: “This is about possible looters, not antifa or setting of fires. There has been NO antifa in town as of this posting at 02:00 am. Please, folks, stay calm and use common sense.”

As the rumors swirled online, the Kremlin’s Potemkin news channel, Russia Today, added to the confusion by illustrating a report on a request from the police in Portland for protesters not to light bonfires with an image of an entirely unrelated wildfire elsewhere in the state.

The total lack of evidence for the false claims about left-wing arsonists has not stopped the internet rumors from having an impact in the offline world.

As Christopher Miller and Jane Lytvynenko reported for Buzzfeed News, the paranoia in Molalla led some locals to wrongly identify Gabriel Trumbly, a Portland video journalist and his partner, Jennifer Paulsen, as arsonists while they were filming some of the fires there on Wednesday.

MG Belka, a journalist in Eugene, Oregon, reported on Wednesday that a member of a far-right group providing aid to evacuated families showed him “screenshots from her Facebook account that claim members of ‘Antifa’ are being caught starting fires around the county.” The woman assured Belka that two of the arsonists from a group called “The Ring of Fire” had been arrested. There have been no such arrests.

Three freelance journalists based in Portland — Justin Yau, Sergio Olmos and Alissa Azar – reported on Twitter on Thursday that they were threatened while reporting on the fires at one location in Molalla by armed men on the lookout for antifascist arsonists.

 

 

https://theintercept.com/2020/09/10/oregon-police-beg-public-stop-calling-false-reports-blaming-antifa-wildfires/

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

In January, Kate Brown proposed a wildfire protection plan.

 Oregon GOP blocked it, of course.

 

[Bateshorn 9899]

 

Propublica did a great break down 2 weeks ago. tl;dr- We need 100x more the acreage we are control burning.

Also, of course this country now has a firefighting industrial complex. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Bateshorn

[freyguy 4245]

Can't we just get the Feds to tear gas the fire into submission?

[LTbear 4160]

California looks apocalyptic right now 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

40 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

 

Propublica did a great break down 2 weeks ago. tl;dr- We need 100x more the acreage we are control burning.

Also, of course this country now has a firefighting industrial complex. 

 

Great article, thanks for linking. 

I'm guessing something similar could be written about Oregon?  Don't know, really, just wondering.

 

[LTbear 4160]

Berkeley yesterday

[mchookem 16212]

so wait...i saw this elsewhere on social media, but it's honestly so incredibly dumb i can't believe it's true, surely not...

right wing nuts think Black Lives Matter started some of these fires in Oregon...bc they heard reference to BLM, aka Bureau of Land Management, setting the fires?

is that really a thing that's happening? 🤨

 

[Biff Tannen 45494]

1 hour ago, mchookem said:

so wait...i saw this elsewhere on social media, but it's honestly so incredibly dumb i can't believe it's true, surely not...

right wing nuts think Black Lives Matter started some of these fires in Oregon...bc they heard reference to BLM, aka Bureau of Land Management, setting the fires?

is that really a thing that's happening? 🤨

 

Sounds about right.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

21 minutes ago, mchookem said:

so wait...i saw this elsewhere on social media, but it's honestly so incredibly dumb i can't believe it's true, surely not...

right wing nuts think Black Lives Matter started some of these fires in Oregon...bc they heard reference to BLM, aka Bureau of Land Management, setting the fires?

is that really a thing that's happening? 🤨

 

Le sigh.  People in the DT apparently entertain those thoughts.

 

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

 

[WBT 20421]

Where's the dog's mask?

[workswithseed 2036]

7 hours ago, mchookem said:

so wait...i saw this elsewhere on social media, but it's honestly so incredibly dumb i can't believe it's true, surely not...

right wing nuts think Black Lives Matter started some of these fires in Oregon...bc they heard reference to BLM, aka Bureau of Land Management, setting the fires?

is that really a thing that's happening? 🤨

 

So there was a guy who was in a lot of BLM stuff who started a fire. He wasn't doing it for BLM, but it's noticable.

[wildcat09 29243]

The federal government’s complete lack of response to these fires because the affected states didn’t/won’t vote for the president and his party seems like another good argument in favor of abolishing the electoral college.

[wildcat09 29243]

16 hours ago, workswithseed said:

So there was a guy who was in a lot of BLM stuff who started a fire. He wasn't doing it for BLM, but it's noticable.

You got a link to support that claim?

[Continental Op 3934]

14 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

You got a link to support that claim?

Who cares what the FBI said?  Listen to our resident barely literate redneck. 

[workswithseed 2036]

47 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

You got a link to support that claim?

https://heavy.com/news/2020/09/jeffrey-jeff-acord/

[triplehorn 2664]

You can't be outside for any amount of time in PDX right now.  Visibility is reduced from smoke even at 20ft where I am yet the closest fire is 30 miles away. I just drove from from TX to OR last week and got caught in WY when I-80 closed statewide from that fluke hurricane snowstorm.  Drove through Green River WY where 80mph winds and snow wrecked big trees and structures.  17 inches snow reported on a mountain near Rock Springs WY.  Then right into the fire hell scape. 

[workswithseed 2036]

Just now, triplehorn said:

You can't be outside for any amount of time in PDX right now.  Visibility is reduced from smoke even at 20ft where I am yet the closest fire is 30 miles away. I just drove from from TX to OR last week and got caught in WY when I-80 closed statewide from that fluke hurricane snowstorm.  Drove through Green River WY where 80mph winds and snow wrecked big trees and structures.  17 inches snow reported on a mountain near Rock Springs WY.  Then right into the fire hell scape. 

I started from Dallas, it was a nice easy drive 4 years ago. I looked, I got here on September 7th.

@wildcat09 I could be wrong. Hell, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Biff Tannen 45494]

2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

https://heavy.com/news/2020/09/jeffrey-jeff-acord/

[4th&Five 41461]

On 9/11/2020 at 10:28 AM, LTbear said:

California looks apocalyptic right now 

[elfenix 34171]

the fires are a combination of 1 poor land use regulations that push development into scrub areas and forest (iow, build more housing in cities), 2 perverse incentives against proper forest management (contractors make way more money dumping fire regardant from modified DC-10s than they do from controlled burns), and 3 nimbyism about smoke and fear that a controlled burn becomes uncontrolled (goes back to point 1)

Edited September 14, 2020 by elfenix

[elfenix 34171]

 

[Doc Sam Beckett 5784]

45 minutes ago, elfenix said:

 

 

There is nothing in the desert, and no man needs nothing 

[We’reTexas 1468]

1 hour ago, elfenix said:

the fires are a combination of 1 poor land use regulations that push development into scrub areas and forest (iow, build more housing in cities), 2 perverse incentives against proper forest management (contractors make way more money dumping fire regardant from modified DC-10s than they do from controlled burns), and 3 nimbyism about smoke and fear that a controlled burn becomes uncontrolled (goes back to point 1)

OK Donald. 

[Biff Tannen 45494]

1 hour ago, We’reTexas said:

OK Donald. 

I didn’t see where he said anything about raking. 

[shnsajax 3589]

10 hours ago, triplehorn said:

You can't be outside for any amount of time in PDX right now.  Visibility is reduced from smoke even at 20ft where I am yet the closest fire is 30 miles away. I just drove from from TX to OR last week and got caught in WY when I-80 closed statewide from that fluke hurricane snowstorm.  Drove through Green River WY where 80mph winds and snow wrecked big trees and structures.  17 inches snow reported on a mountain near Rock Springs WY.  Then right into the fire hell scape. 

I'm in Boise, 430 miles away from Portland and out air quality has been in the over 200 the past two days with no fires around. Can't even imagine Portland right now. 

[workswithseed 2036]

20 minutes ago, shnsajax said:

I'm in Boise, 430 miles away from Portland and out air quality has been in the over 200 the past two days with no fires around. Can't even imagine Portland right now. 

[Mo Horn 8807]

If they had only done their job, instead of gossiping. 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

So, was reading an article in reuters about folks in Oregon returning to their destroyed homes.  Heart breaking stuff, and then this just shows up in the article:

 

Quote

 

Down the road, a woman with a Trump 2020 sign on her home, pointed a shotgun at the journalist and shouted at him to leave.

“You’re the reason they’re setting fires up here,” she said, perhaps referring to false rumors that left-wing activists had sparked the wildfires.

 

 

I don't know that you ever fix this.  The crazy in this country is magnified and supported from the top on down.  And it floods the airwaves.  Thanks, Rush, Fox News, Bretibart, OANN, e.t.c.  Thanks Facebook.   In some sense, thanks 24 hour news networks in general. This doesn't go away if Trump loses.  And if it isn't somehow addressed, the next Trump is going to be way worse.

Edited September 14, 2020 by MC Fresh Breath

[Biff Tannen 45494]

1 minute ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

So, was reading an article in reuters about folks in Oregon returning to their destroyed homes.  Heart breaking stuff, and then this just shows up in the article:

 

 

I don't know that you ever fix this.  The crazy in this country is magnified and supported from the to down.  And it floods the airwaves.  Thanks, Rush, Fox News, Bretibart, OANN, e.t.c.  Thanks Facebook.   This doesn't go away if Trump loses.  And if it isn't somehow addressed, the next Trump is going to be way worse.

This is my concern Dude.

[wildcat09 29243]

7 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

So, was reading an article in reuters about folks in Oregon returning to their destroyed homes.  Heart breaking stuff, and then this just shows up in the article:

 

 

I don't know that you ever fix this.  The crazy in this country is magnified and supported from the top on down.  And it floods the airwaves.  Thanks, Rush, Fox News, Bretibart, OANN, e.t.c.  Thanks Facebook.   In some sense, thanks 24 hour news networks in general. This doesn't go away if Trump loses.  And if it isn't somehow addressed, the next Trump is going to be way worse.

Facebook is going to do to us what it already did to Myanmar.

[High Plains Drifter 10976]

14 hours ago, elfenix said:

the fires are a combination of 1 poor land use regulations that push development into scrub areas and forest (iow, build more housing in cities), 2 perverse incentives against proper forest management (contractors make way more money dumping fire regardant from modified DC-10s than they do from controlled burns), and 3 nimbyism about smoke and fear that a controlled burn becomes uncontrolled (goes back to point 1)

 

#2 is definitely a factor, but so is the effect of years of drought and higher temps (caused by climate change).

The simple fact is that due to climate change, the climate of the West is no longer suited for large, climax community forests. They are going to continue to burn until they are gone, just like the glaciers are going to continue to melt until they are gone. All the fire fighting, managing, raking etc are just a delaying action.

 

[We’reTexas 1468]

9 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

#2 is definitely a factor, but so is the effect of years of drought and higher temps (caused by climate change).

The simple fact is that due to climate change, the climate of the West is no longer suited for large, climax community forests. They are going to continue to burn until they are gone, just like the glaciers are going to continue to melt until they are gone. All the fire fighting, managing, raking etc are just a delaying action.

 

Yes, and will also add that the 60% of forest land in CA is federal land and that a significant number of fires start not in forests but in grasslands. The west is naturally conducive to fires - it’s climate change (and to a degree poor forest management) that have resulted in worse fires in recent years. 

[High Plains Drifter 10976]

On 9/13/2020 at 11:16 AM, workswithseed said:

https://heavy.com/news/2020/09/jeffrey-jeff-acord/

 

link doesn't work.

 

[workswithseed 2036]

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Breaking News

Jeff Acord, Black Lives Matter Supporter, Streamed His Arrest While Filming Washington Fire

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18.3K Views

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By Stephanie Dube Dwilson

Updated Sep 10, 2020 at 7:28pm

FacebookJeff Acord's Facebook video.

Jeffrey “Jeff” Acord was arrested in Puyallup, Washington, in suspicion of being connected to a fire that started in Washington. Police said on Twitter that he was caught starting a fire and Acord said he happened upon the fire while looking for a lost camera. He was previously arrested during a Ferguson protest in 2014 and he recently posted on social media about supporting Black Lives Matter, but not supporting looting and hurting local businesses. Acord’s name has gone viral on social media posts claiming he’s a member of “Antifa,” but his posts appear to show Black Lives Matter support, not Antifa specifically.

Here’s what you need to know.

1. He Was Arrested After Filming a Facebook Live Video Where a Fire Had Just Started

On September 9, a 36-year-old man from Puyallup, Washington was arrested on suspicion of starting a fire on SR-167, Q13 Fox reported. Although the article didn’t name him specifically, it did link to a video that Jef Acord posted on Facebook, noting that he was the man arrested and he had been filming live on Facebook before his arrest. In his video, Acord said he happened upon the fire while looking for a lost camera.

You can watch the live video he posted to Facebook below, which was a public video. It has some profanity in it. He posted under the name “Jeff Demologik Acord.”

In the video, Acord is wearing a mask and saying that he just rolled up on the fire. He said that he was there with the police because he had just called the fire in. He zoomed in on the fire during the 39-minute video and said it was growing and crossing the road.

Facebook

“Oh my god,” he said on the video. “I hope they’re shutting that s*** down dude.”

He said he pulled over to call the fire in, and told the police that he wished he had a fire extinguisher on him when he pulled up. “I’ve put out fires before man,” he could be heard saying, talking about how it was a house fire back then.

“The smallest thing can start a fire,” he said on the video. “…That wind’s not helping right now… It looks like it’s spreading pretty quick, dude. I’m getting concerned… I’m more concerned about the f***** houses right there.”

He said that he was glad he called in the fire when he did, as it might have helped give them extra time to respond early. He later said he lost an expensive camera the day before and was out trying to find it. He told police he was up and down the freeway four or five times that day looking for his camera and had walked four or five miles looking for it.

At one point about 17 minutes into the video, you can here an official saying in the background, “I’ve got lots of concerns about why you’re here today.”

Police had a different story about what happened. Ryan Burke, a Washington State Patrol Trooper, told Fox Q13 that Acord was found in the SR 167 median, after police had talked to him earlier when he was walking on the highway while carrying a lighter.

On Twitter, Burke wrote that a 36-year-old Puyallup resident was “caught in the median on SR-167@Meridian setting a fire!”

Joint team effort!! WSP, Fife Pd and Puyallup PD just arrested a 36yr old Puyallup resident. He was caught in the median on SR-167@ Meridian setting a fire! He is currently on his way to jail! Great job everybody!#playstupidgames pic.twitter.com/8N3wHcT5kJ

— Trooper Ryan Burke (@wspd1pio) September 9, 2020

About 29 minutes into Acord’s live video, you can hear police questioning him about his lost camera and exactly where he was searching.

Acord is listed in Pierce County, Washington’s website as being booked into Pierce County Corrections on September 10 at 4 a.m. The arresting agency is listed as Puyallup Police Department. The listed charge is “Burglary 2.”

Pierce County

Bellingham Metro News reported that he was being held on a $1,000 bond and was suspected in other possible fires in the area. Before he was transferred to another jail, his charge was listed as “Reckless Burning 2nd Degree.”

2. Acord Was Previously Arrested During the Ferguson Protests, & on His Video He Said It Was Because He Forgot His Gun Was in His Backpack

Seattle police arrest 31 y.o. Jeffrey Acord for unlawful poss of firearms and possession of illegal fireworks. pic.twitter.com/ahfaAg11Ya

— elisa hahn (@ElisaTHahn) November 27, 2014

Around 34 minutes into his Facebook live video, Acord talks about how some people thought he was trying to blow up his car during the Ferguson protests. The officer asks why they thought that.

“Well because the officers there needed a story man…,” Acord responded. “…I was out there to get footage… My girlfriend at the time was like, ‘Hey, you should go out there and shoot some footage.'”

He said that he had also been camping and shooting his guns the weekend before, and he forgot to remove one of his guns from his backpack before going to the protest.

“So I was shooting the weekend before,” he says on the video. “This was on a Monday that it happened. … After I had done my weekend camping trip… I had put my 9 mil back in my backpack loaded… I didn’t have my concealed carry permit, and so I was honest with the cop.”

He said that when the officer asked him if there was anything in his bag, he said he had left his pistol loaded in there by accident. He was arrested for illegally carrying a concealed weapon, and he told the officer that he lost his gun rights for two years over what happened.

“The messed up part was the way it was portrayed in the media,” he said when the officer asked if the messed up part was that he made a mistake. “I was crucified for it.

KOMO News reported in 2014 about what happened to Acord, noting that he had a knife in his backpack, a box of ammunition, an assault rifle, shotgun, and a box of fireworks. The article said that he admitted to police that he had a loaded gun without a permit, and officers had contacted him after he was seen near his car with a road flare. Bail was set for $10,000.

3. He’s a Black Lives Matter Supporter, But Also Posted that He Disagreed with Looting

Acord is open about his support for Black Lives Matter, but there’s no indication that he’s associated with Antifa. In early June, he shared that he was going to be participating in a march in Seattle.

He shared a video of footage he took from one of the protests.

His posts were about Black Lives Matter though, not Antifa. He posted that George Floyd should not have died.

However, he also posted on Facebook that he disagreed with looting and wanted a GoFundMe set up for local business owners.

He wrote: “There needs to be a patroon / go-fund-me acct set up for the local business owners that were looted and affected by last nights looting and rioting.. This sh** is NOT okay.. The message needs to be HEARD not SEEN..” 

4. He’s a DJ

According to his Facebook page, Acord is a DJ and he often makes public posts about his work. On his Instagram page, he describes himself this way: “Seahawks fanatic, truth seeker, Music addict, good times.” His job was affected by COVID-19. In a GoFundMe, he shared that he had lost his gigs and paid work.

Facebook

In July, he shared on Facebook that he got a job with a food truck and was excited about seeing how the business works from the inside.

5. He Set up a GoFundMe to Help the Local Music Industry

GoFundMe

In July, Acord started a GoFundMe for a relief fund to the local music industry. He wrote:

I am a local Artist / DJ / Emcee from the Seattle / Tacoma Area and was affected by Covid like everyone else.. Except I didn’t just lose paid club and music venue gigs that were already scheduled in advance, I lost the INDUSTRY itself. All bars / clubs / music venues / and the entire Festival season GONE. My livelihood has been severely affected by this fact and I do I am asking for the support of my community to help donate and fund my Covid Relief Benefit Fund. It will be utilized to help ensure that this project and vision I have for the locksmith scene and music industry as a whole. So please consider dropping a $5 or whatever amount you are able to help with, to help ease the financial stress, which will help get my son his much needed music instructional class online so he can harness his natural talents and become a very successful artist in the future! Imagine a scene, in a place free from the greed and money-hungry culture vultures that have decimated the entire music industry for over two decades.

The vision:

Create an entirely open-format music scene that survives solely by donations from the people that wish to take back ownership of their music scene.

Provide FREE entertainment for the masses to enjoy the art of music and live performances by PASSIONATE ARTISTS and PERFORMERS.

Proceeds from the funds will go ENTIRELY towards every piece of equipment required for the success of each event!

Full disclosure and accountability will be provided and all records of transactions will be documented and provided after purchases of new (or used) gear are made.

I already own my own laser / LED Projection system / Fog Machine / DMX Lighting Controller and Pioneer DDJ SX2 equipment, along with Novation Bass Station 2 Analog Bass Synthesizer, Native Instruments Maschine MK1 Drum Sequencer / Controller, Novation Impulse Midi Keyboard / Controller, and iMac Pro for a fully immersive and intuitive live PA / DJ performances.

What I need to get this of the ground, successfully – is a full sound system to be able to provide QUALITY SOUND during each Renegade Party / Event!

Also need some Stage Rigging for the lighting to be mounted on and for QUALITY PRESENTATION during each event!!

EACH PERSON THAT DONATES ESSENTIALLY BECOMES “PART-OWNERS” of the entire SCENE!

ALL EVENTS WILL BE HELD AT OPEN-AIR VENUES OF RANDOM CHOOSING AND PATRONS WILL BE ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE IN UPCOMING VENUE SELECTIONS THROUGH A VOTING-BASED SYSTEM.

Who is ready to take back CONTROL of OUR music SCENE and INDUSTRY?!

Lets RAGE together, once again!!

READ NEXT: The latest COVID-19 deaths, cases, and updates

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[triplehorn 2664]

[HenryJames 65890]

 

[4th&Five 41461]

He’s a terrible person and also a fucking moron. His voters fall in at least one of those categories too. 

[CowboyFred 1151]

26 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

interesting little thing I picked up on after looking at some information from the last video about him speaking to a foreign leader in Europe:

California has approximately 33 million acres of forest while the US as a whole is roughly 818 million acres (3.3 million square kilometers).

The only European nation that has a comparable amount of forest area to us is...Russia with 8.1 million square kilometers of forest area. (I know technically all of Russia isn't in the European continent but it accounts to about 40% of the total area of Europe but I also don't put it past trump to not know any of that and just assume they're in Europe)

Second in Europe is Sweden with almost 281,000 square kilometers.  It would be weird if Sweden (or any country below them in rank) would call themselves a "forest nation" when they don't even have a 10th of the forest area we have in the states.  

I guess what I'm saying is that based on what he's said there it is not crazy to assume he was speaking with Putin or someone else in Russia...

Edited September 14, 2020 by CowboyFred

[27-25 2040]

41 minutes ago, CowboyFred said:

I guess what I'm saying is that based on what he's said there it is not crazy to assume he was speaking with Putin or someone else in Russia...

Possible.  My money is on him making it all up.

Since he hates anonymous sources he could always just tell us who it was.  But he won't.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Exploding trees? Sounds like a weapon. California is a terrorist state. Send in the troops.

 

 

j/k You know he wants to.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5784]

Here comes hurricane Laura. Where's your seawall Florida? Look, Gulf Coast States, you *have* to do a better job of managing your resources! Build massive seawalls to protect against storm surge. Dredge your rivers so they don't overflow. Listen Florida, you'll get it eventually, but for now just take Laura on the chin, it's gonna get cooler. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Eh, I don't think Florida needs a seawall as much as it needs a very very large canal right along its state line. And no bridges.

BugsBunnySaw.gif

[Sawbonz 27429]

 

[workswithseed 2036]

https://reason.com/2020/09/14/western-wildfires-can-be-prevented-if-burdens-on-forest-management-are-eased/

Parts of the western United States look like scenes from an apocalyptic movie—a red-orange tinge across everything, literally blotting out the sun, as more than three million acres burn.

The fires are running rampant, despite firefighters' best efforts, across California, Oregon, and Washington state. The human cost is huge: 35 people have already died, and more than 4,000 homes have burned. Yet these fires could have been stopped before they got this big, were it not for over-restrictive regulations that have made necessary forest management techniques impossible.

Take controlled burns: fires that are lit on purpose, intentionally burning tinder to keep potentially larger, unintentional wildfires from finding fuel. Especially since the 1960s, efforts to extinguish all fires—even natural, low-impact forest fires that serve as nature's equivalent of a controlled burn—have made forests more susceptible to larger fires and have made controlled burns more and more necessary.

But the regulatory requirements one must meet before starting a controlled burn are complex and lengthy. According to Jonathan Wood, an attorney with the Pacific Legal Foundation and an adjunct fellow with the Property and Environment Research Center, the National Environmental Policy Act requires "a couple-thousand-page document analyzing every single conceivable impact to the environment that the plan might have." This is a public process, Wood adds, that "often results in litigation." There's even more paperwork when the controlled burn might overlap with areas designated as critical habitat for an endangered species.

"What you'll often find," Wood says, "is that there are projects which have been extremely well-vetted, which have been years in the work, there will be a 5,000-page document, which no one could conceivably ever read because it's so long and complicated, but then the project will still get put on hold for an indefinite period of time, because some special interest group filed a lawsuit." So much time is spent considering the ramifications of an action; little is spent considering the impact of doing nothing.

From 1999 to 2017, an average of 13,000 acres of California were subjected to controlled burns each year. In February 2020, Nature Sustainability published a report arguing that California needs to burn 20 million acres of forest in order to restore forest health.

The Clean Air Act of 1990 creates another obstacle. The law treat the smoke from a controlled, prescribed burn as a pollutant that must be analyzed and permitted before the burn can be done. The smoke from a wildfire is not similarly scrutinized. But needless to say, the environmental impact of a multi-state wildfire is much larger than that of a smaller controlled burn.

There is no magic bullet when it comes to the issue of preventing wildfires. But if we want to stop disasters of the scale, state and federal governments need to rethink forest management. They could start by easing the regulatory burden upon proven techniques.

[wildcat09 29243]

Please stop copying and pasting nonsense from idiot libertarian world.

[workswithseed 2036]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Please stop copying and pasting nonsense from idiot libertarian world.

No, also I for the life of me can't remember how to make the spoiler on here.

[elfenix 34171]

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

No, also I for the life of me can't remember how to make the spoiler on here.

it's the thing that looks like an eye

 

 

Spoiler

highlight the text you want in the spoiler tag then hit the eye button

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by elfenix

[workswithseed 2036]

25 minutes ago, elfenix said:

it's the thing that looks like an eye

 

 

  Hide contents

highlight the text you want in the spoiler tag then hit the eye button

 

I use my phone, I don't get the privilege of the full tool bar.