Texas WR/TE Passing Offense Talk

[LTtxfan 49187]

 

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

IT:  "On the practice field, the staff has been trying to get more receivers looks for the No. 3 spot. We could see Agiye Hall, Tarique Milton, or even Brenen Thompson out there. Thompson probably received his most reps ever with the ones this week."

 

Thx for this goes to @Hookem2147

[Coach pop a bitch 5459]

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

Sark needs to target JT at least 5-6 times minimum vs horny toads...

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

Thought it was interesting that Rod Babers was critical of Coach Marion in postgame video with Bobby Burton.  Really unhappy with lack of development at the 3rd WR spot and with Xavier.  

[Had Enough 2081]

Our 2nd WR is underutilized. We don’t look to the 3rd very often. We never try to get the 3rd guy in the flow of the game. And it’s not like we go 3 WRs all the time. I can only assume that practice allocation of personnel and targets mimics games. All that said, don’t expect much. Hard as hell to run route after route when rarely targeted.

[LTtxfan 49187]

5 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Our 2nd WR is underutilized. We don’t look to the 3rd very often. We never try to get the 3rd guy in the flow of the game. And it’s not like we go 3 WRs all the time. I can only assume that practice allocation of personnel and targets mimics games. All that said, don’t expect much. Hard as hell to run route after route when rarely targeted.

Yeah only 3 guys were thrown to vs tcu and one was out TE.  Sark needs to get more players involved in the passing game.

FUCK

[TwiceHorn 31471]

Well, if our D plays loose, sloppy zones against our WR/TE in practice as they usually do in games, it's probably fucking Ewers up when it come to game time.

I have this intuition, can't prove it, that it's mostly Ewers fault with all the deep targets.

But our "secondary" receivers are letting us down, except for Whittington.

[Had Enough 2081]

And think about the Bama game plan. It was use the pass to set up the run. I’m generally a fan of that. Get the D on their heels early. Get their heads spinning then mix it up. Generally we’ve been good at starting that way but then try to assert the run and/or low percentage deep ball. Cains best play, granted it was ULM, was a WR screen. He made one guy miss then it was 40 yards. Don’t think we’ve seen it since.

[Codaxx 5739]

20 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Our 2nd WR is underutilized. We don’t look to the 3rd very often. We never try to get the 3rd guy in the flow of the game. And it’s not like we go 3 WRs all the time. I can only assume that practice allocation of personnel and targets mimics games. All that said, don’t expect much. Hard as hell to run route after route when rarely targeted.

I would argue that they are not using Worthy to his best ability. He just is not a very good deep ball WR. He is a great athlete playing WR. He needs the ball in space and on the move. He can sneak past CBs with his speed, but tracking ability and fighting for the ball are not his things. Having a true deep ball WR is definitely hurting this offense. This WR group is much better when they are asked to use their abilities after the catch, than to go make plays on the ball. JWhitt is basically a RB playing WR. Worthy is a big play waiting to happen with the ball in his hands. Offense needs to be more short  and intermediate based and let the athletes make plays. Use Sanders in the middle of the field to punish aggressive LBs and Safeties. Occasionally sneak someone deep. Sarks seems to be forcing explosive plays. He needs to focus on some more efficient stuff in the passing game. That will get a rhythm going and build some confidence. The shots will come, when you start to get more efficient with the pass game. Hard to find a rhythm when you are forcing low percentage throws to a WR that does not excel on those throws. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Codaxx

[TwiceHorn 31471]

2 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

And think about the Bama game plan. It was use the pass to set up the run. I’m generally a fan of that. Get the D on their heels early. Get their heads spinning then mix it up. Generally we’ve been good at starting that way but then try to assert the run and/or low percentage deep ball. Cains best play, granted it was ULM, was a WR screen. He made one guy miss then it was 40 yards. Don’t think we’ve seen it since.

Clearly a sound strategy and what Sarkisian wants to do, but we aren't executing it very well.

It is rather puzzling that Sark doesn't seem to have a "misdirection" strategy with the running game, which is the other logical strategery.  I suppose it's not his nature, and maybe he rightfully doubts the line's ability to block it well.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

Sark's offense is the opposite of Jimbo's offense. Jimbo creates mid 90s NFL schemes where he believes the call will beat any scheme as long as the QB makes the correct (complicated as hell) read. Sark seems to run a lot of plays purposely schemed up to get one WR wide ass open ie shot plays. So if that WR isn't completely open then the options are limited. I love that aspect of Sark's offense in spurts, but he really needs to start gearing the passing game towards giving the QB more options. He's really addicted to designing plays that setup homeruns. We need more singles and doubles in the passing game. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Catdaddyhorn

[Codaxx 5739]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Clearly a sound strategy and what Sarkisian wants to do, but we aren't executing it very well.

It is rather puzzling that Sark doesn't seem to have a "misdirection" strategy with the running game, which is the other logical strategery.  I suppose it's not his nature, and maybe he rightfully doubts the line's ability to block it well.

What happened to the jet sweep? Has Texas run more than 2-3 of those this year?  TCU LBs were coming down hill hard on the run. Even if you lose yards on a Jet sweep, it will make the defense hesitate when they see that action the next time. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Codaxx

[Had Enough 2081]

Whitts deep ball skills don’t appear to be there based on limited evidence. I’d agree Worthy is not being utilized to his best skill set either. The 3rd guy ought to just be ‘hey, don’t forget about me D but I can make it play.’

I’d say you’re all on to something. Multiple options, jet sweeps, misdirection. Worthy is 1-1 throwing deep balls.

[Codaxx 5739]

Mentioned this in another thread, but i think it belongs here

Worthy:

Averaging 9 targets

Catch rate  48.9% 

yards per target  6.5 from 

13.27 per catch

Sanders:

6.5 targets

70.8% catch rate

7.9 yards/target

11.11 per catch

Unfortunately, I can find individual stats for the other players. If we use attempts (which will not correct for balls thrown away) the other players are targeted 16.5 times a game, 102 catches, and 1368 yards. That is a 61.8% catch rate and 8.29 yards per pass. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Codaxx

[elguapo 4586]

I think Worthy would be best in a secondary role with a true volume WR opposite him, Neyor going down was huge.

[TxTower 652]

nvm

[TxTower 652]

 

Haven’t seen anything from this guy that would indicate he should even be on the field except for possible mop up duty.

[chad.ihrig 578]

Jahleel Billingsley gone https://www.on3.com/teams/texas-longhorns/news/texas-tight-end-jahleel-billingsley-no-longer-with-the-program/

[LTtxfan 49187]

Texas tight end Jahleel Billingsley no longer with the program

Justin Wells•14 minutes

Jahleel Billingsley’s tenure in Austin was short lived.  The Chicago (Ill.) Phillips Academy product and former four-star tight end prospect, who transferred to Texas from Alabama last off-season, is no longer with the program, sources tell Inside Texas. 

After sitting the first six games of 2022 due to suspension, the 6-foot-4, 230-pound tight end appeared in four games for Longhorns, with 38 yards receiving on six catches in limited action. 

Billingsley was named 2022 second-team All-Big 12 Preseason selection by Athlon Sports. 

Billingsley appeared in 36 games, including five starts, and caught 37 passes for 559 yards and six touchdowns for Alabama. During the 2020 national championship run by Alabama, Steve Sarkisian was familiar with Billingsley as he was serving as the Crimson Tide’s offensive coordinator. He added six catches for 66 yards and a touchdown during that year’s College Football Playoff for Alabama.

He was named first-team 6A All-State by the Illinois High School Football Coaches Association in 2018 and helped lead Phillips Academy to the Class 5A state championship as a junior in 2017 and the Class 6A state quarterfinals as a senior in 2018. 

 

Wonder if playing only 4games allows this to be redshirt year for Billingsley.  Would make more sense to not play anymore this year, and transfer again.  

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by LTtxfan

[Slacks 6821]

On 11/15/2022 at 9:14 AM, Catdaddyhorn said:

Sark's offense is the opposite of Jimbo's offense. Jimbo creates mid 90s NFL schemes where he believes the call will beat any scheme as long as the QB makes the correct (complicated as hell) read. Sark seems to run a lot of plays purposely schemed up to get one WR wide ass open ie shot plays. So if that WR isn't completely open then the options are limited. I love that aspect of Sark's offense in spurts, but he really needs to start gearing the passing game towards giving the QB more options. He's really addicted to designing plays that setup homeruns. We need more singles and doubles in the passing game. 

Check down to a RB or TE for a single. 

Mackovic had a similar style. Lots of checking down to the best athlete on the offense.

[SarkAfterDark 1688]

On 11/15/2022 at 9:14 AM, Catdaddyhorn said:

Sark's offense is the opposite of Jimbo's offense. Jimbo creates mid 90s NFL schemes where he believes the call will beat any scheme as long as the QB makes the correct (complicated as hell) read. Sark seems to run a lot of plays purposely schemed up to get one WR wide ass open ie shot plays. So if that WR isn't completely open then the options are limited. I love that aspect of Sark's offense in spurts, but he really needs to start gearing the passing game towards giving the QB more options. He's really addicted to designing plays that setup homeruns. We need more singles and doubles in the passing game. 

I don’t think this is an accurate description of Sarks offense at all. Sarks offense is more of a progression read offense. There are multiple options after the first read. The issue this year is our QB isn’t going through his reads and there is a disconnect between him and his 1st read. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

14 hours ago, SarkAfterDark said:

I don’t think this is an accurate description of Sarks offense at all. Sarks offense is more of a progression read offense. There are multiple options after the first read. The issue this year is our QB isn’t going through his reads and there is a disconnect between him and his 1st read. 

The biggest criticism of Mac Jones when he was coming out was how few times he went beyond his first read.  During Sark's year with Mac Jones he had the lowest % of attempts  beyond his 1st read in all of college football (9.72% compared to other notable QBs like Justin Field, Trevor Lawrence, Kellen Mond,  and Sam Ehlinger who were at 19.09%, 16.99%, 16.55%, and 14.37% respectively).  Scheming first reads wide ass open doesn't seem like an offense that is based on progressions. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Catdaddyhorn

[Codaxx 5739]

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

Didn't use spellcheck... 😋 

[LTtxfan 49187]

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

 

[Sgt Hulk 13716]

Sanders having the most catches by a te is epic considering how many games we abandoned him in. Will be fun to see him grow this off season and enjoy him one final year next year 

[LTtxfan 49187]

Sark and Coach Marion need to work their asses off to get this passing offense going great in 2023.

Really underwhelming results in 2022 for the WR room -- get your shit together Coach Marion!!! 

[NTVTXN 1432]

1 hour ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Sanders having the most catches by a te is epic considering how many games we abandoned him in. Will be fun to see him grow this off season and enjoy him one final year next year 

I hear you and agree…but riddle me this Batman….

i hope I’m being an “old irrelevant Dad who doesn’t understand tweets”…🙁

[Sgt Hulk 13716]

29 minutes ago, NTVTXN said:

I hear you and agree…but riddle me this Batman….

i hope I’m being an “old irrelevant Dad who doesn’t understand tweets”…🙁

I have no idea I don’t speak Twitter

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

2 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Sark and Coach Marion need to work their asses off to get this passing offense going great in 2023.

Really underwhelming results in 2022 for the WR room -- get your shit together Coach Marion!!! 

Sark needs to hand over play calling duties to Milwee or Marion or some one else. He routinely forgets or doesn't return to concepts that give the offense success early in the game. In game after game this year our 2nd half motion and presnap movement would be reduced by 50 to 75% compared to the 1st half. Our 2 back offensive was the most explosive personnel grouping for us on the year yet it was nowhere to be found last night. We get an explosive play out of Casey Cain motioning into the backfield and then never seen anything like that again for the rest of the game. We motion Brooks out into the slot leaving an empty set and Washington's D spazzes and leaves Gunner Helm wide as open for an explosive play yet we never go to anything resembling that concept again. We motion Worthy into the slot which matches him up on a safety and of course he drops it, unfortunately Sark reached his quota for concepts that confused the defense and eliminated it from the playbook. This type of shit was a constant theme all season. Sark game plans his ass off to start a game and then never plays the hits again for the rest of the game. 

[kingkoopa6 8350]

3 hours ago, NTVTXN said:

I hear you and agree…but riddle me this Batman….

i hope I’m being an “old irrelevant Dad who doesn’t understand tweets”…🙁

you aint being Old. 

this either be 

the season is done - time to party tweet

or he out out and headed to Colorado next year

Edited December 30, 2022 by kingkoopa6

[sith_horn 2394]

5 hours ago, Sgt Hulk said:

Sanders having the most catches by a te is epic considering how many games we abandoned him in. Will be fun to see him grow this off season and enjoy him one final year next year 

Agreed. Seems like he is still under utilized.

[LTtxfan 49187]

2 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Sark needs to hand over play calling duties to Milwee or Marion or some one else. He routinely forgets or doesn't return to concepts that give the offense success early in the game. In game after game this year our 2nd half motion and presnap movement would be reduced by 50 to 75% compared to the 1st half. Our 2 back offensive was the most explosive personnel grouping for us on the year yet it was nowhere to be found last night. We get an explosive play out of Casey Cain motioning into the backfield and then never seen anything like that again for the rest of the game. We motion Brooks out into the slot leaving an empty set and Washington's D spazzes and leaves Gunner Helm wide as open for an explosive play yet we never go to anything resembling that concept again. We motion Worthy into the slot which matches him up on a safety and of course he drops it, unfortunately Sark reached his quota for concepts that confused the defense and eliminated it from the playbook. This type of shit was a constant theme all season. Sark game plans his ass off to start a game and then never plays the hits again for the rest of the game. 

Great stuff... Thx Catdaddyhorn!!!

[LTtxfan 49187]

On 12/30/2022 at 9:16 AM, LTtxfan said:

Sark and Coach Marion need to work their asses off to get this passing offense going great in 2023.   Really underwhelming results in 2022 for the WR room -- get your shit together Coach Marion!!! 

Terrible WR season results Coach Marion...

Thx for these stats @Hiphopopotamos 

Hipho:  Numbers for all Texas WR's this season (sorted by Targets):

[LTtxfan 49187]

 

[LTtxfan 49187]

2023 Under Armour All-America Week Final Notes about Johntay Cook.

 

Thx for this goes to @TheMailBox357

[LTtxfan 49187]

 

[BigOrange1 6437]

 

[JFKFC 4879]

20 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

 

My favorite moment of the year was his block against an OU DB that opened the door for Keilan's TD. This is huge. 

[LTtxfan 49187]

Offseason inventory: A look at Texas' tight ends

Eric Nahlin

 Ja'Tavion Sanders

After wandering the desert for a dangerous receiving tight end since the moments before Blaine Irby’s injury in 2008, Texas finally fielded a bona fide stud at the position. It didn’t come as a total surprise given Ja’Tavion Sanders’ lofty high school rating and clear receiving ability, but he was also a quality blocker in 2022 despite arriving to Texas quite raw in that regard.

If you’re one of those who follows offseason inside information to glean how the next team might take shape, a huge team note last year was Sanders’ growth. It was around this time a year ago when Inside Texas started to hear and report about how hard Sanders was working. The proverbial light switch was coming on. Starter Jared Wiley had just left for TCU and the position was Sanders’ to lose. Rather than lose it, he put it in a chokehold by continuing to develop his game all offseason. In the process he began to emerge as a leader in the room.

Just as encouraging as Sanders’ growth was Steve Sarkisian’s usage of the position, though there were times Sanders probably could have been targeted more. That will likely work itself out with an offseason for Sark to re-examine his offense and further develop his young quarterback.

It’s not just Sanders returning. Fellow junior-to-be Gunnar Helm had some quality snaps, primarily as a blocker. Helm has more receiving ability than we’ve seen thus far, but it’s going to be hard to receive targets with Sanders on the roster.

Other than these two the position is pretty thin, but we aren’t forgetting about Juan Davis.

Let’s take a deeper look at the few tight ends on the roster and also a quick glance at the high schoolers who will arrive in late May.

JR Ja’Tavion Sanders

He went from 0-54 real quick. That’s his total receptions from his freshman to sophomore year. It wasn’t always perfect. He did have a couple of unfortunate drops that will probably go away with experience. He has perhaps the best hands on the team so any drops were likely a byproduct of other factors. 

Sanders should serve as a schematic force multiplier in the coming year. He’s now proven and one of the best tight ends in the country. Texas can easily flex between Sark’s preferred 12 personnel and the 11 personnel sets we saw more of in the Alamo Bowl. As a receiver, he can reliably get open and make plays after the catch. He uses his entire catch radius to haul in throws. He uses the entire field — down the seam, outside the hashes, screen game, etc.

Then there’s the blocking. As a jumbo receiver he was so rarely asked to block in high school. He put in a lot of work to become a quality perimeter blocker. Another offseason of S&C should better prepare him to go one on one with defensive ends.

Here’s a nice little clip.

Let’s enjoy him for one more year and hope he goes out with the Mackey Award.

JR Gunnar Helm

Helm is on a solid trajectory. Sure he only had five receptions this year but his blocking improved to the point Texas likely won’t need to reprise the Andrej Karic ‘heavy TE’ role unless the coaches absolutely want to for short yardage. 

Despite the meager receiving numbers, Helm can become a productive receiver, there are just other options ahead of him. A senior year with 25-30 receptions wouldn’t be that surprising. But before then, another year as the inline tight end with Sanders playing the more varied role with the lion’s share of targets.

Helm is a big, coordinated kid (see below). Another year of S&C should help him become one of the better blocking tight ends Texas has had since Geoff Swaim. 

JR Juan Davis

When good info is absent we need to fill the gaps with fact patterns. Fact: Juan Davis is still on the team. Fact: Texas decided to not address tight end in the portal despite only having two players with real experience after losing Jahleel Billingsley. Fact: Other than Sanders, Davis will be the only tight end on the roster who is a dangerous receiver, even after the two signees arrive. 

Is Juan Davis about to get his chance? Probably, but we’ll need to learn more.

Davis is a bit of a tweener, and not between flexed and inline, but between flex tight end and receiver. He’s definitely on the small end of the scale of what could be considered a tight end at about 6-foot-2.5, 220 pounds.

What he does have is quick twitch and flypaper hands. He also has a more clear route to the field with low numbers at the position. 

The Two Signees

Will Randle: Randle is the quintessential H-back, similar to Andrew Beck, who can do a little bit of everything. He has good hands as a receiver and want-to as a blocker. Will it translate to college? I have no idea, but guys like him come out of the woodwork all the time to become quality college players. 

His college career starts with the adversity of overcoming an ACL injury suffered this fall.

Spencer Shannon: Shannon is a sensational fit as someone who can aid Sark’s preferences to run the ball then throw it over the top. As a blocker he’ll have offensive tackle length with more mobility. He’s advanced as a blocker and should become a monster with S&C. He could play as a freshman. While he won’t be a dangerous receiver, he can become one that keeps defenses honest.

Puncher’s Chance

The staff is still swinging at five-star Duce Robinson. They do not believe they’re out of this recruitment so they must be getting enough feedback to at least stay engaged with the Phoenix stud. I remember being in awe of Mark Andrews’ high school film. Robinson is better as a high school recruit.

Summary

Numbers are only okay on the surface with the addition of the two signees. Texas is cutting it a little thin with only Sanders and Helm having real experience. However, we do think Sark will run more 11 personnel next season which does reduce the workload for tight end.

Sanders is an elite receiver who should be even better in 2023. He’s someone Sark will shape the offense around.

 

Enjoy @immamac