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There's absolutely no evidence out there that Trump colluded with the Russians

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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32 minutes ago, Red Five said:

 


He was appointed 11 months ago.

 

He took over an active investigation that began in 2016, correct?  I have not been devoting every waking hour of my life to following this like our Comrad hugo, so I could be wrong.

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 15115

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What's taking Mueller so long, if he has all that evidence?


No snark intended: as bad as the list looks it’s mostly circumstantial so far. Collusion means making secret plans for a harmful purpose. I’m not sure Trump is smart enough to be nefarious. And then of course you get into the definition of “harmful”, which in this case ought to mean illegal.

There certainly seems to be enough for Mueller to have found something illegal that Trump specifically did. Until then:

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Posted (edited)

I’d say we will have a much better idea and many more indictments related to obstruction of justice by the start of the first Paul Manafort trial in mid July. Michael Cohen will likely be indicted or plea to a conviction by then too.

We might even get a written report from Mueller’s office on obstruction by then. 

I don’t understand the logic of, “well Trump isn’t getting indicted or impeachment, so winning?”

Trump isn’t getting impeached before the midterms without the republican base voters growing a soul/conscious and turning on Trump, I don’t see that happening.

What the Trumpkins still don’t get is the longer the Trump administration is allowed to continue, the worse it’s going to be for any legitimate conservative movement in the future.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Pods

Pods 7622

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Texas_Rocks said:

 


You’re missing the point. Mueller’s probe will be active as long as Trump is in office.

 

It would help Mueller wrap up the investigation if Trump would stop committing crimes. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

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4 minutes ago, Pods said:

It would help Mueller wrap up the investigation if Trump would stop committing crimes. 

To be fair, Trump has probably reached a point where obstructing justice is his best option. 

People forget, obstructing justice can actually work sometimes, not for Trump in the long run but perhaps for a better criminal with better attorneys. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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thrillhammer

thrillhammer 686

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i dont believe trump colluded with the russians, and i'm as democrat as they come.  i also don't want to see him impeached.  as embarrassing as he is, that would be an even bigger embarrassment for our country.  

what looked funny is that, before the election, at a time when everyone close to him says he didn't think he was going to win or even have much of a chance of being elected president, he was meeting with russians, his son was meeting with russians, people on his staff (and potentially future staff) were meeting with russians.  to me, it didn't (and still doesn't) look like collusion, it looks like he, and the trump foundation, were trying to make money off this.  real estate ventures, hotels, etc.  he was using his position and power to benefit himself and profit.  low class, slimy, sleazy, but that's trump for you. nothing new there.

the election tampering that the russians were doing, i dont think he was involved in.  that was started by some nerdy hackers in a dark basement (probably their mom's), and had nothing to do with trump.  supposedly we have direct evidence that putin was involved (sheltering, supporting, etc), but i just can't believe trump knew anything about it or had anything to do with it.

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

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18 minutes ago, thrillhammer said:

i dont believe trump colluded with the russians, and i'm as democrat as they come.  i also don't want to see him impeached.  as embarrassing as he is, that would be an even bigger embarrassment for our country.  

what looked funny is that, before the election, at a time when everyone close to him says he didn't think he was going to win or even have much of a chance of being elected president, he was meeting with russians, his son was meeting with russians, people on his staff (and potentially future staff) were meeting with russians.  to me, it didn't (and still doesn't) look like collusion, it looks like he, and the trump foundation, were trying to make money off this.  real estate ventures, hotels, etc.  he was using his position and power to benefit himself and profit.  low class, slimy, sleazy, but that's trump for you. nothing new there.

the election tampering that the russians were doing, i dont think he was involved in.  that was started by some nerdy hackers in a dark basement (probably their mom's), and had nothing to do with trump.  supposedly we have direct evidence that putin was involved (sheltering, supporting, etc), but i just can't believe trump knew anything about it or had anything to do with it.

 

I don’t think Trump thought the Russians had enough influence to swing the election in his favor.

Regardless of collusion, Trump as president has displayed ZERO willingness to confront the Russian interference or try to prevent future attacks.  He has repeatedly openly displayed no interest in defending American democracy.

That’s treacherous AF.  It’s sad and pathetic how republicans choose not to acknowledge these observable facts.

He knew the Russians were interfering in the election during the campaign. He was specifically informed by the intelligence community and the numerous media reports. Yet despite this, he protected Russia and even asked for their help, in public. 

I don’t care if that’s illegal or not, it’s fucking wrong and about as anti-American as it gets.

 

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thrillhammer

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7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Regardless of collusion, Trump as president has displayed ZERO willingness to confront the Russian interference or try to prevent future attacks.  He has repeatedly openly displayed no interest in defending American democracy.

That’s treacherous AF.  It’s sad and pathetic how republicans choose not to acknowledge these observable facts.

He knew the Russians were interfering in the election during the campaign. He was specifically informed by the intelligence community and the numerous media reports. Yet despite this, he protected Russia and even asked for their help, in public. 

I don’t care if that’s illegal or not, it’s fucking wrong and about as anti-American as it gets.

 

100% agree.  he has dragged his heels bigtime,  almost in a criminal way, to accuse, acknowledge, take a firm stance, make a strong statement about russia, what they did, and how we will react if they continue.  in short, he's acted like putin's cuckhold.  this shit will happen again in 2020.  two years later we are no closer to a solution, and that's mainly due to the fact that those in charge don't acknowledge there is even a problem.

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Buzzrock

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I’d say we will have a much better idea and many more indictments related to obstruction of justice by the start of the first Paul Manafort trial in mid July. Michael Cohen will likely be indicted or plea to a conviction by then too.
We might even get a written report from Mueller’s office on obstruction by then. 
I don’t understand the logic of, “well Trump isn’t getting indicted or impeachment, so winning?”
Trump isn’t getting impeached before the midterms without the republican base voters growing a soul/conscious and turning on Trump, I don’t see that happening.
What the Trumpkins still don’t get is the longer the Trump administration is allowed to continue, the worse it’s going to be for any legitimate conservative movement in the future.



I hope you’re not saying that was my logic.

And I disagree on the conservative movement comment. Conservatives will support whoever’s next as surely as liberals held their nose and supported Hillary. It’s all a team sport now.
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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9 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

 


I hope you’re not saying that was my logic.

And I disagree on the conservative movement comment. Conservatives will support whoever’s next as surely as liberals held their nose and supported Hillary. It’s all a team sport now.

 

 

Conservatives, true conservatives, are without a party right now.  Trump has taken over in a repulsive way.  The GOP will probably survive Trump but they are in the process closing the door on women, young people, and minorities.  It will take a generation to repair that damage and they will have to work hard at it.

The team sport aspect will remain but the teams will be dramatically uneven.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Pods

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, thrillhammer said:

i dont believe trump colluded with the russians, and i'm as democrat as they come.  i also don't want to see him impeached.  as embarrassing as he is, that would be an even bigger embarrassment for our country.  

what looked funny is that, before the election, at a time when everyone close to him says he didn't think he was going to win or even have much of a chance of being elected president, he was meeting with russians, his son was meeting with russians, people on his staff (and potentially future staff) were meeting with russians.  to me, it didn't (and still doesn't) look like collusion, it looks like he, and the trump foundation, were trying to make money off this.  real estate ventures, hotels, etc.  he was using his position and power to benefit himself and profit.  low class, slimy, sleazy, but that's trump for you. nothing new there.

the election tampering that the russians were doing, i dont think he was involved in.  that was started by some nerdy hackers in a dark basement (probably their mom's), and had nothing to do with trump.  supposedly we have direct evidence that putin was involved (sheltering, supporting, etc), but i just can't believe trump knew anything about it or had anything to do with it.

 

15 minutes ago, thrillhammer said:

100% agree.  he has dragged his heels bigtime,  almost in a criminal way, to accuse, acknowledge, take a firm stance, make a strong statement about russia, what they did, and how we will react if they continue.  in short, he's acted like putin's cuckhold.  this shit will happen again in 2020.  two years later we are no closer to a solution, and that's mainly due to the fact that those in charge don't acknowledge there is even a problem.

 

Functionally, there's really not a whole lot of difference between Trump acting like Putin's bottom bitch because he was conspiring with him and Trump acting like Putin's bottom bitch because of money.

Impeachment is the appropriate solution under either scenario. It's not going to happen though, McConnell's Senate will never convict. 

Edited by Pods
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thrillhammer

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and the american people.  we don't want our presidents impeached.  it makes us look stupid.  

besides that, from a democrat's standpoint, pence would be a much more damaging president.  he's quieter, doesn't tweet, and has more class, but he's also ignorant.  he believes a 10 commandments sign in front of every school is the solution to the school shooting problem.  he is a thousand times more conservative than trump.

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Hugo Stiglitz

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1 minute ago, thrillhammer said:

and the american people.  we don't want our presidents impeached.  it makes us look stupid.  

besides that, from a democrat's standpoint, pence would be a much more damaging president.  he's quieter, doesn't tweet, and has more class, but he's also ignorant.  he believes a 10 commandments sign in front of every school is the solution to the school shooting problem.  he is a thousand times more conservative than trump.

Not impeaching a dangerous lunatic makes us look stupid.

And I would take Pence all day over Trump.

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thrillhammer

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2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Not impeaching a dangerous lunatic makes us look stupid.

well now that's a different thing.  that has nothing to do with russia, collusion, or election fraud.  the childish way he was handling north korea was reckless and could have gotten us in deep shit.  easily.  it was badgering, bullying, saber-rattling.  but, a year later north korea and south korea is meeting for the first time in ages.  he might as well take credit for that since it's on his watch.  

a dangerous lunatic does deserve impeachment, but as close as he's come, closer than any president in modern history, he hasn't crossed that line yet.  nikki is doing her best. she at least is taking her job seriously, more than i can say for anyone else in his administration.  she might be the only one that hasn't ordered a million dollars of taxpayer money on furniture and personal shit. like cat toys.  

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Hugo Stiglitz

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4 minutes ago, thrillhammer said:

well now that's a different thing.  that has nothing to do with russia, collusion, or election fraud.  the childish way he was handling north korea was reckless and could have gotten us in deep shit.  easily.  it was badgering, bullying, saber-rattling.  but, a year later north korea and south korea is meeting for the first time in ages.  he might as well take credit for that since it's on his watch.  

a dangerous lunatic does deserve impeachment, but as close as he's come, closer than any president in modern history, he hasn't crossed that line yet.  nikki is doing her best. she at least is taking her job seriously, more than i can say for anyone else in his administration.  she might be the only one that hasn't ordered a million dollars of taxpayer money on furniture and personal shit. like cat toys.  

Seems like we’re headed for a catastrophe/constitutional crisis with Trump at the helm.  

All the warnings signs are there.

So let’s wait until the catastrophe happens before pulling the plug. 

Makes perfect sense.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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I’m not a democrat and I’m not a republican because I hate the team aspect of politics. I don’t even know if I’m conservative or liberal because those words have been mutilated by both teams.

I voted for Kerry to punish Bush for the Iraq War.  I voted for McCain because I thought Obama wasn’t ready for the presidency.  I voted for Gary Johnson because I was an idiot and I voted for Hillary because Trump scared the shit out of me. 

 

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 15115

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Conservatives, true conservatives, are without a party right now.  Trump has taken over in a repulsive way.  The GOP will probably survive Trump but they are in the process closing the door on women, young people, and minorities.  It will take a generation to repair that damage and they will have to work hard at it.
The team sport aspect will remain but the teams will be dramatically uneven.


You may be right. I don’t think it’s that simple. No one thought Trump would win in the first place, and if the economy is strong, he’s not impeached, and he legalizes weed I think he’ll be re-elected.
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SmokeyBear1861

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1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m not a democrat and I’m not a republican because I hate the team aspect of politics. I don’t even know if I’m conservative or liberal because those words have been mutilated by both teams.

I voted for Kerry to punish Bush for the Iraq War.  I voted for McCain because I thought Obama wasn’t ready for the presidency.  I voted for Gary Johnson because I was an idiot and I voted for Hillary because Trump scared the shit out of me. 

 

Gary Tounge Tied Johnson? Why would you piss away your vote and not clearly make it a joke? I vote Mickey Mouse - Disney every 4 years.

Saw a good Johnson meme yesterday.

1524004075830_pol.png1524101524126_pol.png

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Incredulity

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3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m not a democrat and I’m not a republican because I hate the team aspect of politics. I don’t even know if I’m conservative or liberal because those words have been mutilated by both teams.

I voted for Kerry to punish Bush for the Iraq War.  I voted for McCain because I thought Obama wasn’t ready for the presidency.  I voted for Gary Johnson because I was an idiot and I voted for Hillary because Trump scared the shit out of me. 

 

Bullshit.

Really, ...Bull.....fucking.....Shit.

I will believe that when me shit turns purple and tastes like rainbow sherbet.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

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3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Conservatives, true conservatives, are without a party right now. 

I'm not sure they ever had a party, at least a major party.   It's pretty clear that there aren't many of them anyway.  Really, we should dispense with pretense and just use the term "conservative" to reflect reality:  Someone with the standard right-wing social policy positions on abortion, gay rights, etc., who favors limitless tax cuts while borrowing money to increase spending on weapons and wars.   The number of people who fit that description and call themselves conservatives far outnumbers those who fit under the pretend definition. 

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Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

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18 minutes ago, Hate said:

 but the left moved too far left as well.

Sanders proposed top marginal tax rate was 52%. That would have been a tax cut for the highest earners under any Democratic or Republican administration from the New Deal to the Reagan Revolution. That was  where the loony progressive Dem candidate existed in the Overton Window who lost to the Wall Street Dem in the primaries. Where is your starting point and how has the left veered farther left from there? 

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 15115

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I’ll agree with you on that, Hugo. They lost me when the Evangelicals hijacked the party, but the left moved too far left as well.


Apropos of nothing but I heard Eric Erickson this morning cite a study that showed that the more often one goes to church the less likely they are to support Trump. So maybe it’s just the occasional evangelicals.
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Equinox

Equinox 95

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6 hours ago, Texas_Rocks said:

 


You’re missing the point. Mueller’s probe will be active as long as Trump is in office.

 

This. And then if a Dem wins the next election, the other side will start investigating them. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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25 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

Wait, you’re jlyttle?

 

http://www.bluedotdaily.com/theres-absolutely-no-evidence-of-russia-collusion-or-ties-except/

Obvious I’m part of some huge conspiracy.  /sarcasm

Surly and Anandtech are the only forums I currently post on.  

 

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