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Need some of the olds here to explain why Bill Walton is considered an all-time NBA great

shadow_operative

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15,932

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I obviously didn't get to see him play, but i've seen plenty of highlights of him (mostly in Portland), where he always looked like a big, white, unathletic stiff. I knew that he didn't play that many years due to injury, so I figured his numbers must have been unreal. Nope.

Career averages:

13.3 pts, 10.5 reb, 3.4 ast, 2.2 blk 

He made the all star team twice; he played more than 60 games in a season three total times; he played fewer than 55 games six times in his ten year career; four of his ten seasons he played 35 games or fewer (24 year old Nikola Jokic will pass Walton on the all time games played list next year); Walton averaged an unimpressive 28.3 mpg for his career. He sure has a ton of respect for a guy who was never healthy and who, outside of one season, didn't even put up numbers. 

so uh, why was this guy named one of the 50 greatest players ever, a first ballot HOFer, and considered to this day to be one of the best big men ever? nothing in his stat profile says that he was any better or more dependable than, say, Yao Ming. I mean Patrick Ewing's resume shits on Bill Walton's, and nobody talks about Ewing the way they do Walton. So what's the deal?

 

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Mitch Cumsteen

Mitch Cumsteen 18,588

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It's already been answered, but he was never right physically after his injury. Look back at his numbers right before he got hurt, it was like 18.5 ppg on 52% shooting, 14 rebs, 3 blocks per game, and 4 assists. All the while being considered one of, if not the, best passing big men in history. He was the best player on a championship team in Portland that took out an absolutely loaded Sixers team with Dr. J in the finals. The rest of that team really wasn't that good -- Maurice Lucas and Lionel Hollins were top shelf, but Walton elevated his teammates to a championship level. I'm talking scrub ass dudes like Dave Twardzik and Bobby Gross playing way, way above their heads. His career was completely wrecked by injuries and even then, he still managed to be an integral part of that 1986 Celtics team, which is one of the greatest in NBA history. There's no telling how great he could have been.

He's also arguably the best college basketball player of all time, including a finals game that is considered one of the best performances ever in any sport -- he went 21/22 and 44 points in a championship game. 

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immortal13

immortal13 4,059

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1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

I obviously didn't get to see him play, but i've seen plenty of highlights of him (mostly in Portland), where he always looked like a big, white, unathletic stiff. I knew that he didn't play that many years due to injury, so I figured his numbers must have been unreal. Nope.

Career averages:

13.3 pts, 10.5 reb, 3.4 ast, 2.2 blk 

He made the all star team twice; he played more than 60 games in a season three total times; he played fewer than 55 games six times in his ten year career; four of his ten seasons he played 35 games or fewer (24 year old Nikola Jokic will pass Walton on the all time games played list next year); Walton averaged an unimpressive 28.3 mpg for his career. He sure has a ton of respect for a guy who was never healthy and who, outside of one season, didn't even put up numbers. 

so uh, why was this guy named one of the 50 greatest players ever, a first ballot HOFer, and considered to this day to be one of the best big men ever? nothing in his stat profile says that he was any better or more dependable than, say, Yao Ming. I mean Patrick Ewing's resume shits on Bill Walton's, and nobody talks about Ewing the way they do Walton. So what's the deal?

 

White? What was your purpose in including that qualifier? 

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15,932

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so to use an analogy that i'd be more familiar with, he was to Portland and the NBA what Mike Wacker was to Texas- he could have been a true GOAT if it weren't for the injuries, he was just that talented and productive. that's what i'm taking away form the responses so far.

i've been well aware of what he accomplished in college for some time now, as i really don't follow the NBA even a fraction as much as I do college hoops, so when I went to look up Walton's NBA career and I saw that he'd only played ~450 games and usually couldn't go half a season i had to ask why he was so revered as an NBA player. thanks for the responses.

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0xdeadbeef

0xdeadbeef 1,652

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In the "Nikola Jokic deserves his own thread" thread there is a quote from Gundy from game 7. ""He's 5 of 13 from the floor and dominating."   It was the same type deal with Walton; he was a stud player that had a huge impact on games eve if he wasn't leading in scoring or rebounding. At the time, he was probably the best passing big man.  

When he finished playing, he was solidly in the top 50 all time.... but that was a lot of years ago.   Today, maybe to 100 

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32,430

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Feet made of glass.

 

Ironically, his high mark of games played (80 of 82)  was 85-86 with the Celtics.  They win the title, and during the summer, Walton breaks one of his feet on of all things, an exercise bike.  While he appeared in a handful of games during the 86-87 season, his career was over.

 

Also, this:

https://www.wbur.org/onlyagame/2016/04/16/bill-walton-book-back-from-dead

Quote

"I was born with structural congenital birth defects in my feet. I tore up my knee when I was 14. I broke my spine when I was 21 playing for UCLA. So here I had this wrecked body that I was trying to chase the dream of being part of something special. And I just thought that everybody had these problems. I thought that everybody’s feet hurt all the time, everybody had a crooked leg, everybody had a broken spine — that was just part of the price you paid."

 

 

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Underdog

Underdog 28,776

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1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

It's already been answered, but he was never right physically after his injury. Look back at his numbers right before he got hurt, it was like 18.5 ppg on 52% shooting, 14 rebs, 3 blocks per game, and 4 assists. All the while being considered one of, if not the, best passing big men in history. He was the best player on a championship team in Portland that took out an absolutely loaded Sixers team with Dr. J in the finals. The rest of that team really wasn't that good -- Maurice Lucas and Lionel Hollins were top shelf, but Walton elevated his teammates to a championship level. I'm talking scrub ass dudes like Dave Twardzik and Bobby Gross playing way, way above their heads. His career was completely wrecked by injuries and even then, he still managed to be an integral part of that 1986 Celtics team, which is one of the greatest in NBA history. There's no telling how great he could have been.

He's also arguably the best college basketball player of all time, including a finals game that is considered one of the best performances ever in any sport -- he went 21/22 and 44 points in a championship game. 

Mo Lucas / Chocolate Thunder squaring off in one of the games was fun too.  I skipped a family reunion to stay home to watch the clinching game...  Blazermania.  

Maybe a Walton/Namath analogy works better as both may not dazzle you with stats but their impact on the sport they played was there, and both overcoming being heavy underdogs to win a title.  

And he's in my Top5 of all-time CBB players. 

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Post Oak

Post Oak 20,277

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As others have said he was maybe the greatest CB player if all time.  If he's not in a class all his own it doesn't take long to call the roll.

I kind of look at him like A.Sabonis.  In that, we were robbed of his greatness because of factors beyond his control.  

Just look at those clips of him working Kareem.  Fucking Kareem. 

He was born 40 years too early.  Maybe with medical advances he's able to nurse a couple more seasons out of his body.  Plus he'd be a monster with the way the game is played today.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54,448

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40 minutes ago, 0xdeadbeef said:

In the "Nikola Jokic deserves his own thread" thread there is a quote from Gundy from game 7. ""He's 5 of 13 from the floor and dominating."   It was the same type deal with Walton; he was a stud player that had a huge impact on games eve if he wasn't leading in scoring or rebounding. At the time, he was probably the best passing big man.  

When he finished playing, he was solidly in the top 50 all time.... but that was a lot of years ago.   Today, maybe to 100 

The most fundamentally solid big man ever.  Incredible passer, incredible defensive player -- not just blocked shots, but at being in the right place all the time, he was just a fucking wall inside.  

Just about a perfect basketball player. If you wanted to learn how to play post, you watched Bill Walton.  

Funny thing was, a nearly perfect comp came along, right down to the injuries -- Arvidas Sabonis.  Only difference was that Sabonis could shoot from outside; Walton either couldn't or didn't want to or need to.

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realgreggym

realgreggym 837

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2 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

It's already been answered, but he was never right physically after his injury. Look back at his numbers right before he got hurt, it was like 18.5 ppg on 52% shooting, 14 rebs, 3 blocks per game, and 4 assists. All the while being considered one of, if not the, best passing big men in history. He was the best player on a championship team in Portland that took out an absolutely loaded Sixers team with Dr. J in the finals. The rest of that team really wasn't that good -- Maurice Lucas and Lionel Hollins were top shelf, but Walton elevated his teammates to a championship level. I'm talking scrub ass dudes like Dave Twardzik and Bobby Gross playing way, way above their heads. His career was completely wrecked by injuries and even then, he still managed to be an integral part of that 1986 Celtics team, which is one of the greatest in NBA history. There's no telling how great he could have been.

He's also arguably the best college basketball player of all time, including a finals game that is considered one of the best performances ever in any sport -- he went 21/22 and 44 points in a championship game. 

If I remember correctly, wasn't that game against Memphis State with Gene Bartow as their coach? We beat MSU at their place that year.

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21,894

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3 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

He’s Christian Laettner if Laettner had led a team to an NBA title shortly after entering the NBA then had his career permanently crushed by injuries only to rise from the ashes to be a strong role player on of the greatest championship teams ever. 

Hahahahaha.  Christian Laettner couldn't hold Walton's jock.  Had Walton stayed healthy, he would have gone down as an all-timer without any question.  He is in the discussion as the greatest college player of all-time.  Please don't include Laettner in that discussion, because he doesn't belong.  

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21,894

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2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

The most fundamentally solid big man ever.  Incredible passer, incredible defensive player -- not just blocked shots, but at being in the right place all the time, he was just a fucking wall inside.  

Just about a perfect basketball player. If you wanted to learn how to play post, you watched Bill Walton.  

Funny thing was, a nearly perfect comp came along, right down to the injuries -- Arvidas Sabonis.  Only difference was that Sabonis could shoot from outside; Walton either couldn't or didn't want to or need to.

This is a perfect breakdown.  And yes, this was at a time when bigs stayed where they were supposed to, down low.

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Blotto

Blotto 23,580

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2 hours ago, Post Oak said:

He was born 40 years too early.  Maybe with medical advances he's able to nurse a couple more seasons out of his body.  Plus he'd be a monster with the way the game is played today.

Yeah, but if he was born 40 years later he would have missed out on tripping acid and the Deadhead life. Pretty sure thats not a tradeoff he would make. 

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Ignatius

Ignatius 4,031

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28 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Hahahahaha.  Christian Laettner couldn't hold Walton's jock.  Had Walton stayed healthy, he would have gone down as an all-timer without any question.  He is in the discussion as the greatest college player of all-time.  Please don't include Laettner in that discussion, because he doesn't belong.  

Like it or not, by any measure Christian Laettner is one of the 20 best college basketball players of all time....

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21,894

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6 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

Like it or not, by any measure Christian Laettner is one of the 20 best college basketball players of all time....

That's fine.  Bill Walton is top 5 of all-time, but any measure.  For the record, I just googled top cbb players of all time, and the first 4 lists I looked at all had Walton in the top 5.

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Ignatius

Ignatius 4,031

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On 9/17/2020 at 7:16 PM, Sbbruin said:

That's fine.  Bill Walton is top 5 of all-time, but any measure.

He’s definitely way up there in the single digits. Don’t get me wrong, CL is a douche and a washout in the NBA, but that motherfucker was nails in college. In 4 years he played in 23 of a possible 24 tournament games; nobody will ever come close to doing that again. And he had a ton of talent around him and a great coach, but you could say the same thing about Walton....
 

EDIT - I called him a washout, but he scored 11,000 points in the NBA. Frame of reference, Walton scored 6,600.

Edited by Ignatius
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Post Oak

Post Oak 20,277

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1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

Hahahahaha.  Christian Laettner couldn't hold Walton's jock.  Had Walton stayed healthy, he would have gone down as an all-timer without any question.  He is in the discussion as the greatest college player of all-time.  Please don't include Laettner in that discussion, because he doesn't belong.  

Ok. Everyone take a deep breath.  

Laettner is on the short list of greatest CBB players ever.  Ever.

 

 

Edited by Post Oak
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conVINCEd

conVINCEd 21,469

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1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

Hahahahaha.  Christian Laettner couldn't hold Walton's jock.  Had Walton stayed healthy, he would have gone down as an all-timer without any question.  He is in the discussion as the greatest college player of all-time.  Please don't include Laettner in that discussion, because he doesn't belong.  

I hate Duke.  I was trying to give a frame of reference of a more modern player who had a similar college career, as the OP asked the old guys to educate him on Walton.  There weren’t many to choose from.  And Laettner, despite his pro failures and general unlikability, absolutely belongs in the discussion for greatest college players ever.  Then I said imagine if Laettner managed to lead a team to an NBa title early in his career before having his career basically ended by injury.  If he had done that (don’t laugh) he would have a similar career to Walton.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9,083

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5 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I hate Duke.  I was trying to give a frame of reference of a more modern player who had a similar college career, as the OP asked the old guys to educate him on Walton.  There weren’t many to choose from.  And Laettner, despite his pro failures and general unlikability, absolutely belongs in the discussion for greatest college players ever.  Then I said imagine if Laettner managed to lead a team to an NBa title early in his career before having his career basically ended by injury.  If he had done that (don’t laugh) he would have a similar career to Walton.

 Yep, love him or hate him he's in the top of the college class. 

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Don Johnson

Don Johnson 4,757

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Posters have kind of said it, but you ask why he was a 1st ballot HOFer. The Naismith HOF includes college, international, etc accomplishments in selecting candidates. Walton was already the greatest CBB player of all time. Add an NBA MVP, two titles and knowledge that his career was cut short by injuries and he’s an easy selection. 

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Sbbruin

Sbbruin 21,894

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1 hour ago, Don Johnson said:

Posters have kind of said it, but you ask why he was a 1st ballot HOFer. The Naismith HOF includes college, international, etc accomplishments in selecting candidates. Walton was already the greatest CBB player of all time. Add an NBA MVP, two titles and knowledge that his career was cut short by injuries and he’s an easy selection. 

He is in the discussion as the best CBB player ever, but most (including me) would give that to Alcindor.

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3,933

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10 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

He is in the discussion as the best CBB player ever, but most (including me) would give that to Alcindor.

This.  3 to 2.  Walton lost a championship along the way and Big Lew (KAJ) had better stats too.  KAJ went 88-2 in his time at UCLA.  Walton was 86-4.  Both were dominant, but when you're talking about the greatest of all-time, you have to look for the smallest differences.  It's Lew, by a whole championship.... Walton's in the discussion for top 5, but he ain't the GOAT at any level.

 

 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54,448

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3 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This.  3 to 2.  Walton lost a championship along the way and Big Lew (KAJ) had better stats too.  KAJ went 88-2 in his time at UCLA.  Walton was 86-4.  Both were dominant, but when you're talking about the greatest of all-time, you have to look for the smallest differences.  It's Lew, by a whole championship.... Walton's in the discussion for top 5, but he ain't the GOAT at any level.

 

 

I think even Walton would agree with that.  I've heard him say that he still thinks about that loss to NC State in the FF every day. Walton's senior season was kind of a disaster by UCLA's standards.

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OP drops (seemingly) random  Nikola Jokic reference in the initial post, but is asking about Bill Walton.

 

LOLz.  Surprised there's not a thread within the same 24 hours about Guy Lewis with a ( you know who) thrown in for good measure, in college coaching.

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Bevo

Bevo 13,601

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33 minutes ago, Hate said:

Olajuwon in college was just so damn raw. You could see flashes that he would put it all together later, but he was relying on his unbelievable athleticism then. It was fun to watch and I really only remember his last two years.

That was also true of Drexler

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Underdog

Underdog 28,776

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David Thompson was the first non-UK player I liked watching, Ernie D from Providence was another, of course you only got a 1 game week back then so it was a bit hard to follow some players.  While I hated them growing up, Crum had some great teams and players at UL with Dr. Dunkenstein being his best, Wagner and Gordon were an excellent backcourt.  

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15,932

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3 hours ago, Bevo said:

Who did y’all enjoy watching in college?

Hank Gathers and Bo Kimbal

Olajuwon

Elvin Hayes

Darryl Griffith

that guy from IU (I think) who became paralyzed?

Chris Porter- Auburn

Ace Custis- Va Tech

Chris Webber

Robert "Tractor" Traylor (RIP)

LeVance Fields and Sam Young- Pitt

Baron Davis

Steve Francis

Jason Terry (dope socks)

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