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Posted
  On 11/28/2023 at 1:51 PM, NoName said:

wait.

you don't think they showed real progress?

they went 4-8 after going 1-11 and being one of the absolute worst p5 teams in the country.

i get shitting on CU and Deion and have myself in this very thread, but come on. no real progress? they lost games by 7, 3, 7, 3 and 6. they also got blown out in some games but last year they lost exactly one game by 7 points or less lol

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If they were progressing so well, why did the HC shitcan the OC for no reason mid-season? Kind of a sign of ineptitude imo.

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Posted
  On 11/28/2023 at 2:35 PM, dcbc said:
You're not wrong.  I think the incremental progress might be easier to appreciate if it had been achieved with relatively-quiet dignity instead of with the overly hyped nonsense most, if not all, of us could smell from a mile below Boulder.   In the end, last place is last place; only this year, it's wearing sunglasses.  

Is the future so bright, they have to wear shades? Please tell me he said that at some point for wearing those stupid things.
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Posted
  On 11/28/2023 at 1:51 PM, NoName said:

wait.

you don't think they showed real progress?

they went 4-8 after going 1-11 and being one of the absolute worst p5 teams in the country.

i get shitting on CU and Deion and have myself in this very thread, but come on. no real progress? they lost games by 7, 3, 7, 3 and 6. they also got blown out in some games but last year they lost exactly one game by 7 points or less lol

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The whole “1-11 to 4-8” is pure fool’s gold. He cleared out almost all of the roster and transferred in a bunch of guys. If it was 1-11 to 4-8 with almost the same exact roster, now that’s progress. But this is a brand new 4-8 team. There is no upward momentum to show. Our sample size to evaluate this team is one season, not two. And that one season was bad. Why would 4 and 5 stars serious about winning want to go there?

I want Sanders to succeed, but all I saw was regression this season. As it turns out, a lot of recruits saw it, too. 

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Posted (edited)
  On 11/28/2023 at 7:42 PM, Eastwood said:

The whole “1-11 to 4-8” is pure fool’s gold. He cleared out almost all of the roster and transferred in a bunch of guys. If it was 1-11 to 4-8 with almost the same exact roster, now that’s progress. But this is a brand new 4-8 team. There is no upward momentum to show. Our sample size to evaluate this team is one season, not two. And that one season was bad. Why would 4 and 5 stars serious about winning want to go there?

I want Sanders to succeed, but all I saw was regression this season. As it turns out, a lot of recruits saw it, too. 

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Why in the world does it matter how they got to 4-8?

He built the team at the same university, then produced a ton of money and 3 additional wins as a result. They were also more competitive.

Year over year if he changes the entire roster again and gets to 10 wins, who fucking cares if he doesn't keep the same players from the year before?

Edited by Atticus
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Posted (edited)
  On 11/28/2023 at 7:42 PM, Eastwood said:

The whole “1-11 to 4-8” is pure fool’s gold. He cleared out almost all of the roster and transferred in a bunch of guys. If it was 1-11 to 4-8 with almost the same exact roster, now that’s progress. But this is a brand new 4-8 team. There is no upward momentum to show. Our sample size to evaluate this team is one season, not two. And that one season was bad. Why would 4 and 5 stars serious about winning want to go there?

I want Sanders to succeed, but all I saw was regression this season. As it turns out, a lot of recruits saw it, too. 

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this is CFB, not an RPG. you don't get more credit because you used guys from the prior year and they got better. the results are what matters and all we have are those results.

last year? 1 win. this year? 4 wins.

if you don't think that's upward momentum in the eyes of the AD, students, donors, coaches, recruits, media and CU fans...idk what to tell you.

Edited by NoName
Posted (edited)
  On 11/28/2023 at 9:34 PM, NoName said:

this is CFB, not an RPG. you don't get more credit because you used guys from the prior year and they got better. the results are what matters and all we have are those results.

last year? 1 win. this year? 4 wins.

if you don't think that's upward momentum in the eyes of the AD, students, donors, coaches, recruits, media and CU fans...idk what to tell you.

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Sure but let's not act like Colorado was firing out 1 win seasons every year for a half decade or something. He basically brought them back to where they were (more or less) before they cratered to 1-11 in 2022:

  • 2021: 4-8
  • 2020: 4-2
  • 2019: 5-7
  • 2018: 5-7
  • 2017: 5-7

So yes it's an improvement over the abject disaster of 2022 but they averaged 4.8 wins in the prior 4 full seasons they played before 2022. (And even managed a winning record in the Covid year)  And if you go back one more year to 2016 they were 10-3. (Yes that was kind of fluky but 10 wins is 10 wins)

Their 2024 schedule has quite a few landmines:

OOC:

  • North Dakota State (high potential for yikes)
  • @ Nebraska (Ruhel in year 2 will probably be much better)
  • @ Colorado State (will be tough)

Big 12 home games:

  • Baylor (who knows - maybe winnable)
  • Oklahoma State (TBD based on Ollie Gordon returning and who's at QB)
  • Kansas State (likely tough)
  • Cincy (probably winnable)

Big 12 road games:

  • Arizona (likely very tough)
  • Kansas (assuming Daniels is there will be tough)
  • Texas Tech (probably tough)
  • UCF (probably tough)

They could very well be 0-3 after the non-conference schedule. There's a lot of roster unknowns right now but getting both OSU and KSU at home will be nice for them. I could see best case for them beating Cincy and Baylor and then one of OSU/KSU at home and then winning one of the 4 road games.

Looking at the schedule on its face it seems like it may be pretty tough for them to get past 4-5 wins.

But again, we'll have to see where everyone stands after the big game of musical chairs is done.

Edited by oSuJeff97
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Posted
  On 11/28/2023 at 9:15 PM, Atticus said:

Why in the world does it matter how they got to 4-8?

He built the team at the same university, then produced a ton of money and 3 additional wins as a result. They were also more competitive.

Year over year if he changes the entire roster again and gets to 10 wins, who fucking cares if he doesn't keep the same players from the year before?

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Year over year 😆 

How many seasons you think the coach prime era will be? 

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Posted

Publicly throwing your current players under the bus and he came out and said they weren’t going to be a atm for players which leads me to believe they don’t have the NIL buy in doesn’t exactly help with recruiting efforts. 

Posted
  On 11/28/2023 at 9:57 PM, longhornmatt said:

They are a lot better than last year, and I give him credit for that … but he’s not recruiting lights out.  And this was the year he should have had the most recruiting advantage, at least in the short term.  Maximum hype, positive energy, new money coming in, and minimum actual expectations.  It’s the honeymoon period where even assholes like Tom Herman can put together a nice recruiting class.

Is he recruiting better than Colorado did before him?  Yes, but with caveats.  He still has more 4 star level guys than they’ve been getting in a typical class recently.  But the momentum is going the wrong direction.  And if he’s only going to sign 10 high school players and turn over 50 roster spots with the portal every year, they aren’t going to be talented or establish any kind of culture and continuity (firing your OC who was your best assistant midseason doesn’t help with that, either).  

They were marginally better this year because his son is actually a good QB, not because the portal overhaul actually produced a good roster top to bottom.  The idea was supposed to be that this portal strategy was a quick fix stopgap while long term he would build the roster up through recruiting on par with the big boys.   If the recruiting piece is not going to happen, then what’s the advantage of having Deion Sanders as your coach?

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Good post. I just want to build on the "he's not recruiting lights out" point by saying that it is shocking to me how poorly his recruiting is going. When people were talking up a class full of 4 and 5 stars, I knew that was bullshit, but I expected to see them wind up somewhere between top 25-35. As of now, he needs to complete a few hail marys to get close to that.

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Posted

I wonder how much time he carved out for recruiting as opposed to say self promotion.  Recruiting is a grind and I wonder about how often he gets out to see a kid on a Friday night before a Saturday game or during their off week. 

Is he talking to HS coaches. When he visits is it with an entourage?  I have no idea.  Maybe he is, id be interested to learn.

Posted
  On 11/28/2023 at 11:13 PM, closetojumping said:

Good post. I just want to build on the "he's not recruiting lights out" point by saying that it is shocking to me how poorly his recruiting is going. When people were talking up a class full of 4 and 5 stars, I knew that was bullshit, but I expected to see them wind up somewhere between top 25-35. As of now, he needs to complete a few hail marys to get close to that.

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Agreed.  And I think his "I'm the new sheriff and most of you assholes are the fuck out of here" speech hurts him way more than it helps him on the recruiting front.

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Posted
  On 11/28/2023 at 10:54 PM, Irish Wrist Watch said:

I'm guessing Deion is in way over his head. How many hours a week is he willing to put in? Difficult to imagine him working 60-70 hrs week in/week out.  I could be wrong, but I think that's what it takes.

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60-70 hrs a week? Try 120+ especially when you’re in the building phase. 

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Posted
  On 11/28/2023 at 9:15 PM, Atticus said:

Why in the world does it matter how they got to 4-8?

He built the team at the same university, then produced a ton of money and 3 additional wins as a result. They were also more competitive.

Year over year if he changes the entire roster again and gets to 10 wins, who fucking cares if he doesn't keep the same players from the year before?

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  On 11/28/2023 at 9:34 PM, NoName said:

this is CFB, not an RPG. you don't get more credit because you used guys from the prior year and they got better. the results are what matters and all we have are those results.

last year? 1 win. this year? 4 wins.

if you don't think that's upward momentum in the eyes of the AD, students, donors, coaches, recruits, media and CU fans...idk what to tell you.

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It absolutely matters that it isn't the same roster and you absolutely get credit in the eyes of recruits if a lot of the guys from the prior roster were a part of the improvement. Recruits want to see player development. Why? Because the NFL wants to see player development. They want to see metrics. "RB1 had X amount of yards on Y amount of carries and Z number of touchdowns before Deion. After Deion, there was a 60% improvement in those numbers." That signals to recruits that they might be able to go from 4 star athlete to 1st or 2nd round pick in 3 or more years at Colorado. It tells recruits that Deion can take a bunch of spares from a 1-11 team and start getting them national attention and in the conversation for awards and draft picks in just one or two years and if he can do that for 2 and 3 star spares, just imagine what he can do for 4 and 5 stars. That matters a ton for future recruiting. So, great, CU got one whole year of excitement, money, and attention. But is there longevity there? Can Deion build a program? Going 4-8 with a completely different team doesn't give anyone any idea if he can develop talent. If anything, we saw him fade down the stretch and lose almost all of the early season momentum, as well as a decline in player performance (not to mention having his stars get banged up while losing). And...

  On 11/28/2023 at 9:57 PM, longhornmatt said:

Is he recruiting better than Colorado did before him?  Yes, but with caveats.  He still has more 4 star level guys than they’ve been getting in a typical class recently.  But the momentum is going the wrong direction.  And if he’s only going to sign 10 high school players and turn over 50 roster spots with the portal every year, they aren’t going to be talented or establish any kind of culture and continuity (firing your OC who was your best assistant midseason doesn’t help with that, either). 

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This. "It's Division I football! This ain't IMG Academy." Look at none other than Sark at Texas for an example of how establishing a 5 Star Culture over time helps a program. College football isn't plug and play. It's about establishing and keeping long term momentum. He built a roster of mercenary athletes who wanted immediate results and those athletes and recruiting commits are already jumping ship.

Posted

It's easy to point and laugh. Coach prime shit on the players he inherited telling them to get into the portal, shit on his current players when things went south and completely collapsed after all the hype with a 3-1 start. Now the fallout is beginning. Commits are looking elsewhere, players will begin entering the portal and it'll be interesting to see how Colorado fares next year. I'd suspect they'll finish with a worse record in 2024. 4-8 is better than 1-11, but with all the hype and Deion's smug attitude it was easy to gloat over their collapse and shit season.

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Posted
  On 11/29/2023 at 2:35 AM, Chad said:

Coach prime shit on the players he inherited telling them to get into the portal, shit on his current players when things went south and completely collapsed after all the hype with a 3-1 start.

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to be fair, the players he inherited were pretty fucking bad - and that's backed up by how few of them found P5 homes.

what's going to hurt him is firing the best coach he hired (Lewis) into the sun, Lewis found a HC job and will be leaving and without a doubt be successful there.

whoever the new replacement is (no way they run it back with Pat Shurmur right?) will not be as good of a coach or run as good of a scheme.

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Posted (edited)

A week or so back, Deion was quoted:

  Quote

"We're not an ATM. That's not going to happen here. If you come to Colorado to play football for me and the Colorado Buffaloes, it's because you really want to play football and receive a wonderful education and all the business stuff will be handled on the back end if that's the case. But we are not an ATM

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Life comes at you fast:

 

https://themessenger.com/sports/deion-sanders-says-colorado-needs-more-nil-money

  Quote

Thee era of name, image and likeness is here to stay, and it will remain one of the biggest factors in the recruiting and retention of athletes throughout college sports. Following his first season at the FBS level, Colorado head coach Deion Sanders is ready to embrace it.

Now, Sanders is ready to embrace NIL, and ask for help in boosting Colorado's NIL initiatives.

"We're getting there," Sanders said Monday when asked if Colorado has the resources he needs to succeed. "We definitely need 'giving.' You know what I mean. It's unfortunate to say this, but some kids cost."

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  Quote

The Buffaloes finished 4-8 with a 1-8 record in Pac-12 play this season, and were clearly outmanned in the trenches. Sanders said in several press conferences that the offensive line, specifically, was not up to par, and the team will need some next season.

"The big picture, you go get new lineman," Sanders said after Colorado's 28-16 loss to UCLA on Oct. 28. "That's the picture, and I'ma paint it perfectly."

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Also, The Athletic interviewed several Pac-12 coaches for their assessment on Colorado's season, and the future.  It isn't going to be pretty:

https://theathletic.com/5096119/2023/11/29/deion-sanders-colorado-football-2024/

 

  Quote

Deion Sanders stood in front of the Colorado football team in the visiting locker room moments before the Buffs took the field for their season finale last Saturday at Utah. The head coach was decked out in all black, save for a pair of custom gold Nike shoes.

The season began with the Book of Genesis, he told his team, but now Colorado had reached the Book of Revelation.

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  Quote

“There’s a lot of folks that started out great and done one thing at the end to just mess it all up. There’s a lot of folks that started out bad and did one thing at the end to make it all good,” he added, nodding his head. “You can make everybody forget every dern thing today. And it could be a heck of a plane ride (home).”

Instead, Colorado lost to the Utes 23-17, completing a fall of biblical proportions. The Buffaloes closed the season with six losses in a row and eight in their last nine games.

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  Quote

The Athletic spoke with six coordinators and assistant coaches within the Pac-12 Conference, all of whom were granted anonymity to speak candidly about an opposing program. Their assessment of Year 1 of Sanders at Colorado included the necessary caveats for how he brought a jolt of energy and attention to the long downtrodden program. However, they were largely pessimistic that Year 2 was going to bring significant improvement. Said one coach:

“It’s gonna get dark for Colorado.”

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  Reveal hidden contents

 

Edited by Francisco 2.0
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Posted
  On 11/29/2023 at 12:44 AM, Eastwood said:

This. "It's Division I football! This ain't IMG Academy." Look at none other than Sark at Texas for an example of how establishing a 5 Star Culture over time helps a program. College football isn't plug and play. It's about establishing and keeping long term momentum. He built a roster of mercenary athletes who wanted immediate results and those athletes and recruiting commits are already jumping ship.

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100%.

This is what I was saying from the very beginning about Deion. There's VERY FEW programs out there that can win just by accumulating the most talent, and even then it's not just "plug and play."  He was able to do that at Jackson State because of the low competition for talent at that level, but life in the P5 can come at you fast, and every game is a battle unless you're one of the 2-3 super elite talent factories.

You need to build up quality depth and continuity, especially on the OL/DL and I can't see any way he's going to do that with his current strategy.  That HAS to be done through mostly HS recruiting/development and then augmented by the portal, not the other way around.

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Posted

This year in particular, there's been kind of an innate conflict of interest for Deion.  On the one hand, he wants to showcase Shadeur and set him up to be a high draft pick.  But you can't do that purely with mobility and a chuck-and-duck passing game; the NFL requires a showing of drop-back capabilities.  Unfortunately, Colorado doesn't have the OL to allow Shadeur to drop back.  Hence the conflict of interest: Deion can either run a chuck-and-duck offense that will maximize wins, or he can run Shadeur as a drop-back passer to highlight Shadeur's NFL capabilities at the expense of the team.

I think it's pretty clear that this conflict of interest was at the root of Deion's decision to sideline Sean Lewis.

Maybe this problem goes away when Shadeur graduates.  But if I'm a Colorado booster, I'm pretty displeased with the appearance that Deion is out primarily for himself/family at the expense of the Colorado program.

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Posted
  On 11/29/2023 at 9:42 PM, Jkwellborn said:

If Deion wasn’t a dick, maybe he doesn’t run off the couple of OL that are starting elsewhere. Then maybe Shadeur doesn’t get fucked up every day.

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Yeah, he should have been nicer to all the players who went 1-11 and lost by an average of 29 ppg.  Totally.

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Posted
  On 11/29/2023 at 9:59 PM, Chewbacca said:
Yeah, he should have been nicer to all the players who went 1-11 and lost by an average of 29 ppg.  Totally.

That’s not what I said. But if the posts upthread are true, 2 of the OL that he ran off were starting for top 15 teams. Which means, maybe, just maybe, they could have played for the shit that was trotted out in Boulder.
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Posted
  On 11/28/2023 at 11:20 PM, Post Oak said:

I wonder how much time he carved out for recruiting as opposed to say self promotion.  Recruiting is a grind and I wonder about how often he gets out to see a kid on a Friday night before a Saturday game or during their off week. 

Is he talking to HS coaches. When he visits is it with an entourage?  I have no idea.  Maybe he is, id be interested to learn.

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I'm pretty sure that in his mind self promotion IS recruiting.

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Posted
  On 11/29/2023 at 10:29 PM, Jkwellborn said:


That’s not what I said. But if the posts upthread are true, 2 of the OL that he ran off were starting for top 15 teams. Which means, maybe, just maybe, they could have played for the shit that was trotted out in Boulder.

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Everyone who stayed had the opportunity to compete for playing time.  Maybe they weren't up to the task of competing, I don't know.  Or maybe they just didn't like what he said to them.  Some of the guys who stayed were able to be starters, though.

Posted

If I got a new boss and had to sit through a presentation about how we all suck and the replacements are coming before any of us had even met him, I'd probably go get a job elsewhere. But I guess if my employer was as awful as a 1-11 football team, I'd probably find work elsewhere before the new boss even showed up.

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Posted
  On 11/29/2023 at 2:35 AM, Chad said:
It's easy to point and laugh. Coach prime shit on the players he inherited telling them to get into the portal, shit on his current players when things went south and completely collapsed after all the hype with a 3-1 start. Now the fallout is beginning. Commits are looking elsewhere, players will begin entering the portal and it'll be interesting to see how Colorado fares next year. I'd suspect they'll finish with a worse record in 2024. 4-8 is better than 1-11, but with all the hype and Deion's smug attitude it was easy to gloat over their collapse and shit season.

Firing (demoting but he wont be back) the coach in year one is a huge red flag I doubt he’ll recover from. Not unlike Herman and Strong who whiffed at key hires. You picked them, they couldn’t overcome holes in the roster, got fired, then got the coach fired.
Posted (edited)
  On 11/29/2023 at 9:59 PM, Chewbacca said:

Yeah, he should have been nicer to all the players who went 1-11 and lost by an average of 29 ppg.  Totally.

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Nah. Blindly running off all the players because "1-11" was never a smart idea. He's being paid a lot of money. It's straight up lazy to not do evals on every single one of those players to see what was worth salvaging. He would have seen that those OL were worth keeping.

 

OL especially is a position that you have to turn over every stone. You never know who might develop into a good player. See: Jones, Christian.

Edited by Pam Cummings
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Posted

Shohei, Nikola, and Erling are just chopped liver.

 

What a fucking joke, SI.   Stick to swimsuits.

Posted
  On 11/30/2023 at 5:01 PM, Post Oak said:

I'm old enough to remember when SI was the absolute peak of sports writing.

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When was this?

It seemed like in the 1990s, The Sporting News was what you were subscribed to if you actually wanted to follow sports. SI was what you read to know where the hype train happened to be that month but if that was all you read you would lack the context to even understand the hype trains.

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