Ruth Bader Ginsburg is dead

[ndawg 1242]

41 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

OK let me give another example. Democrats insisted that a President has a right to nominate a candidate and that candidate has a right to an up or down vote even in an election year. They argued it to the bitter end in 2016. Now precedent is OK? Like I said the only difference is Democrats will try to explain why they changed their mind while Republicans say fuck off.

If the Democrats could rely on the Republicans not being hypocrites, then the Democrats could stick to their principles. As it stands, they need to do everything in their power to stop the Republicans from gaining an inch of power.

[wildcat09 29558]

Did everyone take a big dose of stupid this morning? The GOP has basically used biological warfare to kill 250,000 Americans and their poll numbers have barely budged. Yet we've got multiple posters here predicting decades in the wilderness for the GOP.

Even if the Dems take a clean sweep this year, pass a new Voting Rights Act, pack the courts to ensure it's not thrown out, increase the minimum wage, pass some sort of universal healthcare, and add DC and Puerto Rico as states, you know what political results that will guarantee? Fucking nothing. For fuck's sake, stop pretending, and stop telling other people, that all we need to do is win this November. Winning in November is step one of a hundred. Not the fucking endgame.

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by wildcat09

[TexArcher 38816]

43 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

OK let me give another example. Democrats insisted that a President has a right to nominate a candidate and that candidate has a right to an up or down vote even in an election year. They argued it to the bitter end in 2016. Now precedent is OK? Like I said the only difference is Democrats will try to explain why they changed their mind while Republicans say fuck off.

Are you trying to accuse the Democrats of hyporcrisy here?

Because if so, that's 100% backward.

The Republicans refused to vote on a Justice appointed by a Democrat 9 months before an election and now they're going to try to fast track a vote for a Justice nominated by a Republican just a few weeks before an election.

The Democrats aren't changing their minds.  They're saying y'all can't have it both ways.

[hobbes2702 13351]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Did everyone take a big dose of stupid this morning? The GOP has basically used biological warfare to kill 250,000 Americans and their poll numbers have barely budged. Yet we've got multiple posters here predicting decades in the wilderness for the GOP.

Even if the Dems take a clean sweep this year, pass a new Voting Rights Act, pack the courts to ensure it's not thrown out, increase the minimum wage, pass some sort of universal healthcare, and add DC and Puerto Rico as states, you know what political results that will guarantee? Fucking nothing. For fuck's sake, stop pretending, and stop telling other people, that all we need to do is win this November. Winning in November is step one of a hundred. Not the fucking endgame.

 

No we don’t just need to win in November. We need to do all those things you listed. Winning is indeed step 1. All those things are the next steps. And the math is pretty much insurmountable for the GOP electorally with two new reliable blue states added. The map is already difficult for them as is especially with states like Texas, Arizona, Nevada moving more and more blue due to changing demographics.

[UpperWestside 6263]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Did everyone take a big dose of stupid this morning? The GOP has basically used biological warfare to kill 250,000 Americans and their poll numbers have barely budged. Yet we've got multiple posters here predicting decades in the wilderness for the GOP.

Even if the Dems take a clean sweep this year, pass a new Voting Rights Act, pack the courts to ensure it's not thrown out, increase the minimum wage, pass some sort of universal healthcare, and add DC and Puerto Rico as states, you know what political results that will guarantee? Fucking nothing. For fuck's sake, stop pretending, and stop telling other people, that all we need to do is win this November. Winning in November is step one of a hundred. Not the fucking endgame.

 

Inauguration Day is the end of the beginning. The real work starts then.

[Dahobbs 18192]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

She wasn't particularly qualified to do anything with healthcare in the mid-90s.

You can argue that she was qualified to be President 25 years later.

What qualifications are required for an administrative position in a task force? She seemed perfectly qualified for the role then. If you seriously think roles like that should be limited to individuals in the healthcare industry, you haven't worked with individuals in the healthcare industry or seen how poorly managed most doctor's offices really are. 

[softlynow 1893]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Did everyone take a big dose of stupid this morning? The GOP has basically used biological warfare to kill 250,000 Americans and their poll numbers have barely budged. Yet we've got multiple posters here predicting decades in the wilderness for the GOP.

Even if the Dems take a clean sweep this year, pass a new Voting Rights Act, pack the courts to ensure it's not thrown out, increase the minimum wage, pass some sort of universal healthcare, and add DC and Puerto Rico as states, you know what political results that will guarantee? Fucking nothing. For fuck's sake, stop pretending, and stop telling other people, that all we need to do is win this November. Winning in November is step one of a hundred. Not the fucking endgame.

 

I seem to recall each party predicting decades in the wilderness for the other party every 2-4 years. I've never understood why people think one party in a two-party system could ever gain that kind of dominance absent a cataclysmic event like the Civil War.

[Horn Dog 10156]

49 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

OK let me give another example. Democrats insisted that a President has a right to nominate a candidate and that candidate has a right to an up or down vote even in an election year. They argued it to the bitter end in 2016. Now precedent is OK? Like I said the only difference is Democrats will try to explain why they changed their mind while Republicans say fuck off.

Is this for real?  This is like saying that if both of us are standing there with guns pointed at each other, and I say "I think we need to put the guns down and talk it out", and you say "Fuck that I'm shooting" and you shoot, that your response when I shoot back will be "You said we needed to put the guns down... hypocrite!"

[DanTheHorn 5061]

7 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Are you trying to accuse the Democrats of hyporcrisy here?

Because if so, that's 100% backward.

The Republicans refused to vote on a Justice appointed by a Democrat 9 months before an election and now they're going to try to fast track a vote for a Justice nominated by a Republican just a few weeks before an election.

The Democrats aren't changing their minds.  They're saying y'all can't have it both ways.

No what I am saying is that the argument of "y'all can't have it both ways" is an argument that will sway no one since in the past they have tried to have it both ways. Also, if they take it too far not only will they not sway anyone but they may start to turn off people that are willing to vote for them because of Trump even though they really do not want to do so.

Edited September 21, 2020 by DanTheHorn

[washparkhorn 9967]

Liars.

[ndawg 1242]

1 minute ago, DanTheHorn said:

No what I am saying is that the argument of "y'all can't have it both ways" is an argument that will sway no one since in the past they have tried to have it both ways.

"Y'all can't have it both ways" absolutely sways everyone who is willing to think critically about it.

[wildcat09 29558]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

No we don’t just need to win in November. We need to do all those things you listed. Winning is indeed step 1. All those things are the next steps. And the math is pretty much insurmountable for the GOP electorally with two new reliable blue states added. The map is already difficult for them as is especially with states like Texas, Arizona, Nevada moving more and more blue due to changing demographics.

I swear to god I'm going to pistol whip the next person who says this shit.  Have you been living under a rock until 2020? They're not going to go away. Their donors will continue to dump billions of dollars into their campaigns and their state-level operatives will continue to rig every level of power they can to keep themselves relevant and they're going to always have a sufficient number of persuadable voters that can fall for their bullshit. We will need to choke the life out of the political power of white supremacy and never stop choking. They will never go away and we will never have the luxury of figuratively taking our hands off their throats because we think "the math says we've got this." In 2008 the GOP god absolutely skullfucked after getting us into a war we were losing and for destroying the economy. Within two years they'd blamed the war and economy on Obama, convinced enough people, and came storming back.  In 2016 "the math" told us we had that shit sewn up. We didn't. For decades we thought explicit racism as government policy was impossible. 

Never ever ever ever ever ever take anything political for granted. Never tell anyone else that we can. This is why we keep fucking losing to these assholes.

[hobbes2702 13351]

3 minutes ago, softlynow said:

I seem to recall each party predicting decades in the wilderness for the other party every 2-4 years. I've never understood why people think one party in a two-party system could ever gain that kind of dominance absent a cataclysmic event like the Civil War.

Because it’s happened before. 
And I might call a global pandemic at level unseen for 100 years qualifies as a pretty cataclysmic event.

[hobbes2702 13351]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

I swear to god I'm going to pistol whip the next person who says this shit.  Have you been living under a rock until 2020? They're not going to go away. Their donors will continue to dump billions of dollars into their campaigns and their state-level operatives will continue to rig every level of power they can to keep themselves relevant and they're going to always have a sufficient number of persuadable voters that can fall for their bullshit. We will need to choke the life out of the political power of white supremacy and never stop choking. They will never go away and we will never have the luxury of figuratively taking our hands off their throats because we think "the math says we've got this." In 2008 the GOP god absolutely skullfucked after getting us into a war we were losing and for destroying the economy. Within two years they'd blamed the war and economy on Obama, convinced enough people, and came storming back.  In 2016 "the math" told us we had that shit sewn up. We didn't. For decades we thought explicit racism as government policy was impossible. 

Never ever ever ever ever ever take anything political for granted. Never tell anyone else that we can. This is why we keep fucking losing to these assholes.

No one said let them off the hook or take it for granted. You’re looking at the sky falling (which it is) while ignoring the massive advantage Dems will have for decades moving forward if those changes are made. That doesn’t mean the GOP can’t still win elections but it does mean that controlling all three branches of government will be virtually impossible for the near future. 

[Zonahorn 8079]

Guys, we can’t just stop at DC and Puerto Rico. We need to include the pacific island territories as well

[hobbes2702 13351]

1 minute ago, longhornmatt said:

No, it’s not insurmountable with DC and Puerto Rico.  It’s impossible for the GOP to be +4 on Senators in today’s map?  Really? And that’s to say nothing of the parties adapting and realigning in the future. 

Pennsylvania and Wisconsin couldn’t elect a Republican Senator?  Montana?  

Plus, not everything is national party based.  Sometimes you get quirky results because of the candidates themselves.  In the last 10 years, Massachusetts has elected a Republican Senator, and Mississippi has elected a Democrat.  Shit happens.  The only certainty is that none of this is set in stone.

All three branches. Not just one. And again, no one is saying anything is guaranteed

Edited September 21, 2020 by hobbes2702

[DanTheHorn 5061]

2 minutes ago, ndawg said:

"Y'all can't have it both ways" absolutely sways everyone who is willing to think critically about it.

People that are critically thinking about what is happening within the Republican party and this country are already voting for Biden.

[Goredho 17627]

5 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

"When you have the Senate, you can sort of do what you want" needs to become the rallying cry for every single Democratic Senate candidate.

Grab 'em by the senate!

[elfenix 34658]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

The bicameral legislature?

The Ds need to raise the stakes by passing the FYMA in the House.  Have it teed up.

Fuck You Mitch Act?

[Goredho 17627]

1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

No party is going to have hegemony over the government in the United States over an extended period of time unless it’s through unlawful, authoritarian means.

This is our concern, dude.

[TwiceHorn 31988]

4 minutes ago, elfenix said:

Fuck You Mitch Act?

 

[workswithseed 2201]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

 

What would the amendment be?

[Jive Turkey 12930]

This will be a full throated talking point tomorrow.  If Rush says it, it’s good as gold.

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Jive Turkey

[Red Five 41596]

Why not just skip the vote too? Save even more time. Just tell her to show up and get to work. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26773]

1 minute ago, Red Five said:

Why not just skip the vote too? Save even more time. Just tell her to show up and get to work. 

[Guest Lobo]

12 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

This will be a full throated talking point tomorrow.  If Rush says it, it’s good as gold.

 

Is he absolutely sure he doesn't have AIDS?  

[tantric superman 4668]

Netted out, Dems need to be prepared to take the loss, pussy, and get back to the phone bank.

[GRHorn 105]

15 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

I really and truly think Trump thinks “Hey! We’ll just replace one vagina with another vagina! The bitches will like that, right??? That way they won’t have reason to complain!”.

He thinks women are just as dumb, shallow, and transactional as he is.

Give that pathetic pandering strategy a whirl, Dotard.

All vaginas are not equal.

Mind reader. 

[wildcat09 29558]

28 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

 

This is insufficient. They stole the 2016 election by cooperating with Russian intelligence. Trump's election and its consequences should be viewed as wholly illegitimate. They stole a 5-4 Democratic court from us. And by us I don't mean Democrats, I mean Americans, because that's what we voted for. We must at the very least restore the court to the position it should be in right now, which would be a one seat majority. This will require adding 4 Democrats, for a total of 13 seats. And even that won't really punish them for their behavior, that just puts us back where we started. Punishment would be adding two more seats on top of that. I'd say expansion to 15 seats is the absolute minimum that justice requires.

[GRHorn 105]

 

[Paul Wesley 3313]

I keep an am radio on in the garage just to hear what talking points Rush is delivering.  And lately... holy shit.  
 

Joe Biden’s supporters are systematically murdering the entire police force, and Black Lives Matter are coming to kill the white people.  
 

Only Trump can save us.  
 

(It’s not even coded)

[Brisketexan 106628]

5 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

I keep an am radio on in the garage just to hear what talking points Rush is delivering.  And lately... holy shit.  
 

Joe Biden’s supporters are systematically murdering the entire police force, and Black Lives Matter are coming to kill the white people.  
 

Only Trump can save us.  
 

(It’s not even coded)

Of course it's not.  They've gone completely and unabashedly into the white supremacy, save our white culture, blood and soil narrative.  Because it works.

[wildcat09 29558]

6 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

I keep an am radio on in the garage just to hear what talking points Rush is delivering.  And lately... holy shit.  
 

Joe Biden’s supporters are systematically murdering the entire police force, and Black Lives Matter are coming to kill the white people.  
 

Only Trump can save us.  
 

(It’s not even coded)

All we want these people to do is go about their lives without trying to kill black people and they view that as a mortal threat to them.

[formermav43 4607]

1 hour ago, softlynow said:

I seem to recall each party predicting decades in the wilderness for the other party every 2-4 years. I've never understood why people think one party in a two-party system could ever gain that kind of dominance absent a cataclysmic event like the Civil War.

Yep. Remember Rove’s permanent Republican majority talk in 2000? And then there were similar articles in 2008 from the other side.

[atomheartbevo 90548]

1 hour ago, softlynow said:

I seem to recall each party predicting decades in the wilderness for the other party every 2-4 years. I've never understood why people think one party in a two-party system could ever gain that kind of dominance absent a cataclysmic event like the Civil War.

From 1933 to 1995, Republicans controlled both House and Senate for only four years.   Not quite a wilderness,  but damned close.  And Hell, the GOP went, what 30 or 40 years without controlling the House prior to 1994?

Old people are just not reproducing as fast as certain demographics.  Wait, they aren’t reproducing at all (although the older couple three doors down are damn sure trying, and don’t care who knows it).  That’s why white people in Texas dropped below 50% of the state 10 years or so earlier than expected.  

Hell, if you surveyed even a dozen Texans , and asked them “true or false, whites make up less than 50% of Texans”, a bunch would guess whites make up more than 50%.  

If the GOP doesn’t reinvent itself, people like me will never come back, and it will not attract younger folks, or non-whites.   

Democrats ran Texas up until early in my adulthood.   After the Rs took over, I was told it would last the rest of my life.   Now I’m seeing places and political seats that weren’t supposed to be competitive flipping.  If Texas reverts back to the Dems, the GOP is toast.   

Edited September 21, 2020 by atomheartbevo

[Jive Turkey 12930]

 

[wildcat09 29558]

7 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

From 1933 to 1995, Republicans controlled both House and Senate for only four years.   Not quite a wilderness,  but damned close.  And Hell, the GOP went, what 30 or 40 years without controlling the House prior to 1994?

Old people are just not reproducing as fast as certain demographics.  Wait, they aren’t reproducing at all (although the older couple three doors down are damn sure trying, and don’t care who knows it).  That’s why white people in Texas dropped below 50% of the state 10 years or so earlier than expected.  

Hell, if you surveyed even a dozen Texans , and asked them “true or false, whites make up less than 50% of Texans”, a bunch would guess whites make up more than 50%.  

If the GOP doesn’t reinvent itself, people like me will never come back, and it will not attract younger folks, or non-whites.   

This ignores that the Democratic party was effectively two parties during that period because the south refused to vote Republican. People repeating this are taking all the wrong lessons from it. The lesson isn't that we can easily keep white supremacists and rapacious robber barons from power, it's how easily they can keep the people from power.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6586]

1 minute ago, Jive Turkey said:

 

He could have just said he couldn't take the length in that glory hole at a truck stop in South Carolina and that is why he is changing his thinking on the Supreme Court process.  It's all bullshit and each hypocritical R will make up some reason.  The truth is they don't give a shit about anyone and know that the morons in this country will still vote for them so they can do whatever they want.

[jimmyjazz 46978]

20 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

 

Apparently Ladybugs thinks we're all as stupid as Donald Trump, because the "treatment" of Kavanaugh has jack shit to do with process or standards.  It has everything to do with nominating a fucking rapist for the highest court in the land.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Apparently Ladybugs thinks we're all as stupid as Donald Trump, because the "treatment" of Kavanaugh has jack shit to do with process or standards.  It has everything to do with nominating a fucking rapist for the highest court in the land.

my mom, who is an 80 year old woman who knows zero about anything national or political, told me how terrible it is what the democrats did to kavanaugh.   somehow that message worked with some folks.

[GRHorn 105]

17 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Apparently Ladybugs thinks we're all as stupid as Donald Trump, because the "treatment" of Kavanaugh has jack shit to do with process or standards.  It has everything to do with nominating a fucking rapist for the highest court in the land.

***alleged***

14 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

my mom, who is an 80 year old woman who knows zero about anything national or political, told me how terrible it is what the democrats did to kavanaugh.   somehow that message worked with some folks.

I think advancing and promoting some of the more ridiculous accusers reflected poorly on the Democrats and their perceived motives. 

[Prepuce of Doom 21260]

19 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

my mom, who is an 80 year old woman who knows zero about anything national or political, told me how terrible it is what the democrats did to kavanaugh.   somehow that message worked with some folks.

Is your mom Squee or Donkey Dong Doug? 

[Horn Dog 10156]

2 hours ago, softlynow said:

I seem to recall each party predicting decades in the wilderness for the other party every 2-4 years. I've never understood why people think one party in a two-party system could ever gain that kind of dominance absent a cataclysmic event like the Civil War.

This is remarkable. 

 

[softlynow 1893]

2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Because it’s happened before. 
And I might call a global pandemic at level unseen for 100 years qualifies as a pretty cataclysmic event.

So cataclysmic on the day 200k covid deaths is reached the NYT cover is about politics as usual. So cataclysmic that, while Biden led Trump in national polls by about 8 in February, he now leads by . . . about 8.

If you're looking for a fourth turning type event, a reset of the political spectrum, the end of the sixth political party system and the rise of the seventh, this ain't it. If you're predicting one, though, après Trump le deluge.

In fact, I think we should be quite concerned about what comes next. The deplorables are not going away. When Reagan invited evangelicals into the GOP, he created a new tranche of his base. Their side won some elections and lost some elections, but have yet to disappear as they did between the Scopes Monkey trial and 1980. Trump has done the same with completely moronic pieces of shit. They are an activated political force, and losing this election doesn't end that. And they're not just old people about to die. The next GOP candidate will not alienate the morons. Liberal tears will be a campaign promise for many more election cycles.

Imagine the power of a GOP that has the deplorables not only excited to continue their nihilistic push for . . . whatever, but rallied around a Nikki Haley who wouldn't be a non-starter with independents and suburban women. Trumpism without Trump has the potential to coalesce quite the lasting coalition.

[softlynow 1893]

 

2 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

And with that 14-4 advantage, they’ve basically made it easier for big business to engage in financial shenanigans and done exactly jack shit about all the things that get social conservatives riled up.  

The next abortion case will be much like the GOP Congress’s attempt at repealing and replacing Obamacare.  “OMG, they thought we were serious!  Um, sorry, we still can’t reverse Roe v. Wade because ... reasons.   But, listen, you should support Republican politicians in the next election so they can continue the fight to overturn Roe v. Wade!”

Hell, Blackum wrote Roe v. Wade, and Stevens would go on to be one of the court's most liberal justices. Souter also drifted to the left after being thought of as a probable conservative.

[Biff Tannen 46061]

10 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

And with that 14-4 advantage, they’ve basically made it easier for big business to engage in financial shenanigans and done exactly jack shit about all the things that get social conservatives riled up.  

The next abortion case will be much like the GOP Congress’s attempt at repealing and replacing Obamacare.  “OMG, they thought we were serious!  Um, sorry, we still can’t reverse Roe v. Wade because ... reasons.   But, listen, you should support Republican politicians in the next election so they can continue the fight to overturn Roe v. Wade!”

Remember this, it's very important.

[softlynow 1893]

3 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Yeah, I’m actually starting to think Trump himself is an anchor of sorts, but the coalition of disenchanted trolls is actually a pretty formidable base for a while.  The Democrat response of telling them how stupid they are, while true, is also not at all helpful.  

“You think you’re better than me, Mr. Big Shot?” has a fairly decent chance of working as a party platform the more they lean into it, and the more Democrats lean into, “Well, yes, I do think we’re better.”   We are going to have tough times for a while, and more people are going to become disenchanted and lash out. 

Add to that the fact that the structural economic problems that are leaving more people behind while enriching a few to fantastical levels, and I don't see this election and year as cataclysm but as prelude.

[Brisketexan 106628]

15 minutes ago, softlynow said:

Trumpism without Trump has the potential to coalesce quite the lasting coalition.

Yep.  Because greed, rage, cruelty, and hatred of the other are ALWAYS in season, and never go out of style.  It's a strong coalition.  Empires have been built on less.

[wildcat09 29558]

4 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Yes, they basically hit on Scalia, Thomas, Alito, and probably Kavanaugh in terms of being completely reliable in the way GOP voters want them to be completely reliable.  It’s not a great track record for the Federalist Society and social warriors at all.

The Federalist Society wasn’t even founded until 1982 and didn’t really develop political relevance for some time after that. Hell, the evangelicals weren’t all even anti-abortion conservatives until Reagan.

[Horn Dog 10156]

Thats because its really difficult to run a functional society with a stated philosophy of “interpret everything like its 1776”.  Sure it sounds ‘principled’ when you are issuing harmless dissents,  but it causes real problems when actually applied.