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Big Red Motors Busted by Feds

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 55824

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https://www.normantranscript.com/news/updated-big-red-execs-charged-with-wire-fraud-conspiracy-forgery-and-id-theft/article_45cfde22-f9cc-11ea-a3e5-1b492eac08f2.html

 

OKLAHOMA CITY — Co-owners of the Big Red Dealerships were indicted by a federal grand jury on counts of wire fraud, conspiracy, issuing forged securities and aggravated identity theft.

On Sept. 16, the federal grand jury returned an indictment alleging that Big Red Dealerships co-owners and Norman residents Bobby Chris Mayes, 48, Charles Gooch, 61, and Courtney Wells, 35, utilized their position to commit 25 counts of wire fraud, conspiracy, issuing forged securities and aggravated identity theft from January 2014 to March 2019, Timothy J.

Downing, United States attorney for the Western District of Oklahoma, said in a released statement.

 

“The indictment further alleges the defendants made materially false statements and omissions to the lenders about the type, source, and amount of borrowers’ down payments or vehicle trade-ins, and bribed at least one loan officer,” the release said.

The indictment said the defendants used ads to target those with poor credit and then fraudulently induced lenders to approve loans by documenting that they had provided a cash down payment or trade-in vehicles, even when neither took place.

“The indictment alleges at least one lender approved questionable loans after being provided with cash bribes from a Big Red Dealership manager,” the release said. “It is alleged that, on the defendants' instruction, Big Red Dealership employees concealed the ongoing criminal conduct, even forging the signatures of customers who supposedly provided cash down payments.” 

Between January and April 2016, a Big Red Dealership manager — operating at the direction and control of Mayes — met routinely with a loan officer at a local financial institution and made approximately $30,000 total in cash payments in exchange for her approval of loans for customers at Big Red Dealerships, according to the indictment. The Big Red manager sometimes would call the loan officer to give notice that a questionable loan application was being sent over or otherwise direct the loan application to the attention of that loan officer. Some of those loans were for vehicles for which employees at the Big Red Dealership had generated their own invoices to support prices above the manufacturer's suggested retail price.

According to the indictment, approximately 476 loans were approved based on false cash-down payments and 636 loans were based on false vehicle trade in.

 

The charges are as follows:

Count 1 charges all three defendants with conspiracy to commit wire fraud. Counts 2-13 charge all three defendants with wire fraud based on 12 loan packages sent to lenders for specific customers. If convicted of any of Counts 1-13, each defendant faces up to 20 years in prison and a $250,000.00 fine.

Counts 14-19 charge all three defendants with uttering forged securities based on checks forged by Big Red Dealership employees. If convicted of any of Counts 14-19, each defendant faces up to 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

Counts 20-25 charge all three defendants with aggravated identity theft against the customers whose signatures were forged. If convicted of any of Counts 20-25, each defendant faces a mandatory term of imprisonment of 2 years to run consecutive to any other term of imprisonment and a $250,000 fine.

This case is the result of an investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The case is being prosecuted by Assistant U.S. Attorneys K. McKenzie Anderson and Tom Snyder.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

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This is great and all, but again I must express dismay that this is being prosecuted as a federal crime.

I get that Okie cops may be too stupid or corrupt to investigate this adequately, and perhaps the fix might be in in an Oklahoma court, but I think you have to give them first crack at it.  As usual, there is nothing particularly federal about these crimes.

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 41649

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This is great and all, but again I must express dismay that this is being prosecuted as a federal crime.
I get that Okie cops may be too stupid or corrupt to investigate this adequately, and perhaps the fix might be in in an Oklahoma court, but I think you have to give them first crack at it.  As usual, there is nothing particularly federal about these crimes.

Shut up. Fuck ousux.
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Vertigo

Vertigo 20461

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4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This is great and all, but again I must express dismay that this is being prosecuted as a federal crime.

I get that Okie cops may be too stupid or corrupt to investigate this adequately, and perhaps the fix might be in in an Oklahoma court, but I think you have to give them first crack at it.  As usual, there is nothing particularly federal about these crimes.

Im no lawyer but I would imagine if the wire fraud was crossing state lines it could be considered federal. Also, when they pull this string and find the ncaa infractions that are exposed in open court, it will be must see tv.

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DalTxHornFan

DalTxHornFan 3130

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57 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This is great and all, but again I must express dismay that this is being prosecuted as a federal crime.

I get that Okie cops may be too stupid or corrupt to investigate this adequately, and perhaps the fix might be in in an Oklahoma court, but I think you have to give them first crack at it.  As usual, there is nothing particularly federal about these crimes.

Bank fraud involving a federally insured financial institution seems kinda like a federal crime to me.  IIRC, the US Secret Service, in particular, plays a big role in bank and wire fraud investigations.  You can bet that the regulators will be (or already have been) all over this financial institution for multiple regulatory violations and unsafe and unsound lending practices, et al.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

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57 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

Im no lawyer but I would imagine if the wire fraud was crossing state lines it could be considered federal. Also, when they pull this string and find the ncaa infractions that are exposed in open court, it will be must see tv.

I know why it's federal or the basis for it, and that is using instrumentalities of interstate commerce, the phone, the internet, the mails.

But I find that a wholly unsatisfactory reason for exercising the criminal jurisdiction of the federal courts.

This shit is plain old fraud, it belongs in state court.

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 41649

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I know why it's federal or the basis for it, and that is using instrumentalities of interstate commerce, the phone, the internet, the mails.
But I find that a wholly unsatisfactory reason for exercising the criminal jurisdiction of the federal courts.
This shit is plain old fraud, it belongs in state court.

giphy.gif


Ousux. Incriminate to the maximum
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

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4 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Bank fraud involving a federally insured financial institution seems kinda like a federal crime to me.  IIRC, the US Secret Service, in particular, plays a big role in bank and wire fraud investigations.  You can bet that the regulators will be (or already have been) all over this financial institution for multiple regulatory violations and unsafe and unsound lending practices, et al.

All 25 of the counts listed above are not crimes specific to federally insured banks.  They're based on "interstate commerce" and they are all traditionally state law crimes.

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ButtFumble

ButtFumble 5246

Posted
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Just now, TwiceHorn said:

I know why it's federal or the basis for it, and that is using instrumentalities of interstate commerce, the phone, the internet, the mails.

But I find that a wholly unsatisfactory reason for exercising the criminal jurisdiction of the federal courts.

This shit is plain old fraud, it belongs in state court.

it was securities fraud as well though

they were packaging loans and securitizing them and then selling those packages off that is 100% federal

they were not just bribing local bank officials to make shitty loans they were then selling those shitty loans off in packages made up of at least some % of those shitty loans

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DalTxHornFan

DalTxHornFan 3130

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Just now, ButtFumble said:

it was securities fraud as well though

they were packaging loans and securitizing them and then selling those packages off that is 100% federal

they were not just bribing local bank officials to make shitty loans they were then selling those shitty loans off in packages made up of at least some % of those shitty loans

Good point.  Lots of that stuff gets securitized. Maybe only the smaller credit unions keep auto paper as portfolio loans these day.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

it was securities fraud as well though

they were packaging loans and securitizing them and then selling those packages off that is 100% federal

they were not just bribing local bank officials to make shitty loans they were then selling those shitty loans off in packages made up of at least some % of those shitty loans

Again, show me from the DOJ/WDOK press release above where there is securities fraud charged. 

It's not particularly relevant, but in most cases, "securities fraud" is a civil case brought by the SEC.  When the US Attorney brings criminal charges, they are almost always wire fraud.

Don't be deceived by "uttering false securities."  As it says, that means "checks."  It's passing heaters.

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ButtFumble

ButtFumble 5246

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Again, show me from the DOJ/WDOK press release above where there is securities fraud charged. 

It's not particularly relevant, but in most cases, "securities fraud" is a civil case brought by the SEC.  When the US Attorney brings criminal charges, they are almost always wire fraud.

Co-owners of the Big Red Dealerships were indicted by a federal grand jury on counts of wire fraud, conspiracy, issuing forged securities and aggravated identity theft.

Count 1 charges all three defendants with conspiracy to commit wire fraud. Counts 2-13 charge all three defendants with wire fraud based on 12 loan packages sent to lenders for specific customers.

the first line says forged securities

then the first list of charges says loan packages

and the SEC does not have the power to prosecute criminal actions and in this case a "security" is a loan package sold and certified as some grade of investment based on the loans in that package that is loan/mortgage/banking fraud areas that the SEC does not investigate or deal with

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

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Just now, ButtFumble said:

Co-owners of the Big Red Dealerships were indicted by a federal grand jury on counts of wire fraud, conspiracy, issuing forged securities and aggravated identity theft.

Count 1 charges all three defendants with conspiracy to commit wire fraud. Counts 2-13 charge all three defendants with wire fraud based on 12 loan packages sent to lenders for specific customers.

the first line says forged securities

then the first list of charges says loan packages

and the SEC does not have the power to prosecute criminal actions and in this case a "security" is a loan package sold and certified as some grade of investment based on the loans in that package that is loan/mortgage/banking fraud areas that the SEC does not investigate or deal with

 

That's not what these charges are.  See above.

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ButtFumble

ButtFumble 5246

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2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's not what these charges are.  See above.

well I am not going through all the charges, but lets look at it like this

at best most decent dealers are probably making $1,000 in back house profits and maybe a bit more if they really fuck someone over

when you look at the fact that they paid bribes of at least $30,000 to get these loans through they had to be doing a massive volume of these loans and they had to be doing a lot of the false down payments and forged down payment checks to cover the cost of paying people off much less make enough money to make the risk worth it

so even if they did not package those loans and put a false rating on them and then sell them off in the secondary market they still did a massive financial crime and the feds at some point are going to take that case and then take all the fines and fees and assets instead of letting the state get them

even if it is a total money loss for the federal government and tax payers it is still a big "win" for the federal agencies handling the case...and they are not going to pass that shit up no way no how not for some fucks in OkCity to deal with

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Newy25

Newy25 7894

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25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I know why it's federal or the basis for it, and that is using instrumentalities of interstate commerce, the phone, the internet, the mails.

But I find that a wholly unsatisfactory reason for exercising the criminal jurisdiction of the federal courts.

This shit is plain old fraud, it belongs in state court.

Other than the Oklahoma prosecutors will look the other way while these criminals funnel money to OU football players? 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31987

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7 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

Other than the Oklahoma prosecutors will look the other way while these criminals funnel money to OU football players? 

If that indeed happened, and I acknowledge that it's possible, it needs to be made public.  Oklahoma is full of lawdogs with no connection to OU and the Cowboys and others hate OU as much as we do.

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Doc Reeves

Doc Reeves 6434

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2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

This is great and all, but again I must express dismay that this is being prosecuted as a federal crime.

I get that Okie cops may be too stupid or corrupt to investigate this adequately, and perhaps the fix might be in in an Oklahoma court, but I think you have to give them first crack at it.  As usual, there is nothing particularly federal about these crimes.


yet...

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GhostOfTomJoad

GhostOfTomJoad 9483

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"You darn tootin' right!" Fucking love that movie
Close, but as a Minnesotan by birth I've gotta correct ya. It's:

"Yer darn tootin'."

CSB/ the scene where Norm and Marge have their buffet lunch & the deputy approaches them with more information was filmed at Tinnuci's in Newport, MN (although in the film they were having lunch in Brainerd). I grew up a mile away across the tracks and highway 61.

Tinnuci's is still there, BTW. I took my wife there a few years ago for their Saturday night prime rib. It's pretty good, ya know.

Oh, fuck ou.
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