Window Installation

[gsoda3 3262]

We have a window we're wanting to replace with a bigger one here in Austin..  It's a custom order window on a brick wall.  You guys have any suggestions for shops that do this?  TIA.

[Dendox 102]

shops to make the window?  

or shops to do the install?

Flashing the window is paramount and nearly everyone that installs them fucks that part up.  

[gsoda3 3262]

1 minute ago, Dendox said:

shops to make the window?  

or shops to do the install?

Flashing the window is paramount and nearly everyone that installs them fucks that part up.  

are they usually separate?  we need both done.  been getting estimates for just the window fabrication but now looking for an installer who actually knows what they're doing with windows. 

[Dendox 102]

Are you making the window opening larger?  

Based on your post, it sounds like you are.  Are you going up?  Out?

I think you need a good knowledgeable contractor and not just a window installer.  But, I sue bad contractors all the time and I am jaded as most of my clients come to me due to water intrusion.  Most of those are from shitty window installation.  

That alternative - have the show you order from install them.  Some will, some won't.  Thad Ziegler will (or they used to).  

Mark Gault - http://www.mgault.com/ is a contractor that I see as an expert on a ton of the construction defect claims iin the Austin area.  He knows what he is doing.  Might be worth calling him to see if would be willing to help or refer you to someone who might.

[gsoda3 3262]

we're expanding the current opening down, adding about two feet in height to the existing window. 

 

we were going to order the window and hire a contractor to put it in, but speaking to a couple guys we get the sense it's a good idea to get a window shop who specializes in installing windows instead of a general contractor who does everything.  are we off-base on that?  

 

thanks for the rec, i'll contact mark gault.

[horn4life 3761]

You are sort of looking at two separate processes.  A brick job and a window job.  

Since you are choosing the window size you are either going to go Custom or find and existing size.  Either way you might consider your brick layout when considering size.  If you can choose a size so that when they replace the brick your brick ends align cleanly with the window edge you have a cleaner looking finish.  As opposed to perhaps needing to cut 1/3 of a brick off one side and a half a brick on the other side for the window size and position you want.  I am going to look hard to try and find a manufacturer that has a size close enough that they normally produce.  

Something to think about since you are choosing the size,  probably mainly using the look from the inside to determine what you want?

Basically the installer is gonna know out the brick beyond the hole size you want, and reframe the opening and put in a new header for the wider width (assumption). FLASHING PROPERLY is huge, and is an area that is screwed up an awful lot.  What good is a new window if when the rain is windblown you have leaks?

Edited September 21, 2020 by horn4life

[gsoda3 3262]

5 minutes ago, horn4life said:

You are sort of looking at two separate processes.  A brick job and a window job.  

Since you are choosing the window size you are either going to go Custom or find and existing size.  Either way you might consider your brick layout when considering size.  If you can choose a size so that when they replace the brick your brick ends align cleanly with the window edge you have a cleaner looking finish.  As opposed to perhaps needing to cut 1/3 of a brick off one side and a half a brick on the other side for the window size and position you want.  I am going to look hard to try and find a manufacturer that has a size close enough that they normally produce.  

Something to think about since you are choosing the size,  probably mainly using the look from the inside to determine what you want?

Basically the installer is gonna know out the brick beyond the hole size you want, and reframe the opening and put in a new header for the wider width (assumption). FLASHING PROPERLY is huge, and is an area that is screwed up an awful lot.  What good is a new window if when the rain is windblown you have leaks?

that's a really good point about sizing the window from the outside.  currently we've sized it from the inside but it makes sense to do it the other way around, thanks.  

[Gil Bang 25960]

1 hour ago, Dendox said:

Are you making the window opening larger?  

Based on your post, it sounds like you are.  Are you going up?  Out?

I think you need a good knowledgeable contractor and not just a window installer.  But, I sue bad contractors all the time and I am jaded as most of my clients come to me due to water intrusion.  Most of those are from shitty window installation.  

That alternative - have the show you order from install them.  Some will, some won't.  Thad Ziegler will (or they used to).  

Mark Gault - http://www.mgault.com/ is a contractor that I see as an expert on a ton of the construction defect claims iin the Austin area.  He knows what he is doing.  Might be worth calling him to see if would be willing to help or refer you to someone who might.

I was an investigator and "expert witness" on construction defect cases.  I'd estimate 85% of what I saw involved water intrusion.   Defective windows, improperly installed windows, or defective sheet metal.  

[Gil Bang 25960]

1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

we're expanding the current opening down, adding about two feet in height to the existing window. 

 

we were going to order the window and hire a contractor to put it in, but speaking to a couple guys we get the sense it's a good idea to get a window shop who specializes in installing windows instead of a general contractor who does everything.  are we off-base on that?  

 

thanks for the rec, i'll contact mark gault.

Shitty idea.  Let the installer furnish the window.  That way, it's his baby all the way around.  

 

[gsoda3 3262]

Shitty idea.  Let the installer furnish the window.  That way, it's his baby all the way around.  
 

Yeah that's what we've come around to.

[deadshank 24653]

8 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

We have a window we're wanting to replace with a bigger one here in Austin..  It's a custom order window on a brick wall.  You guys have any suggestions for shops that do this?  TIA.

Do the rest of your windows have a water table soldier course of brick at the window sill?  If so you will want to match existing conditions; therefore, hello mason  

You will need a mason to remove and replace bricks, a framer to build a new rough opening, drape Nervestral out of the rough opening down to the brick ledge, line the rough opening with a peel and stick membrane (Protecto Wrap) and install the window, a sheet metal shop to fabricate and install header flashing at the top of the window and 1” down each side and then install peel and stick (Protecto Wrap) across the bottom nailing flange of the window, then the 2 side nailing flanges and again over the nailing flange of the window header flashing. (pro tip: use Kynar pre-finished metal that best matches your window frame color in lieu of a mismatched galvanized look for your window header flashing). 
 

If you get a window “replacement” installer he will most likely cut off the nailing flanges, screw through the jamb liner of the window and into the rough opening of the window and finally caulk the piss out of the cold joint between the replacement window and your brick.  You will still need a  mason to do the brick work and a carpenter to re-size the rough opening.
 

No matter what, the cold joint between the brick and your window will need backer rod and caulk.  No applying mortar directly to window at the cold joint.  That always fails.  Always.  

Edited September 22, 2020 by deadshank

[gsoda3 3262]

Yeah the window is framed by a soldier course water table and a rowlock sill. Im thinking it'll cost 2500 to 3000 for the entire job but the hassle is having to line all of these guys up.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

You need a good window from a reputable dealer (steer clear of Pella, they are notorious for poor service after the sale from my years and years of experience). Inquire if they have in house installation, and service guys on staff.

As has been stated above, proper flashing cannot be over emphasized, especially in an after the fact installation. Unless you're going to open the masonry around the entire new window opening, getting the flashing completely sealed is tough, and more involved than just a line of caulk..

Get a mason to cut the window opening longer (after a window shop drawing is provided) so they know all the critical dimensions for a properly sized rough opening.  They'll have to create new left, and right brick corners as the new window length will cut thru, and expose hollow brick cores. They'll want to tooth each new brick corner into the surrounding brick courses.

They'll install a new brick sill, and new mortar in all the repaired joints.  The mortar color is critical to get right, even a bit more so than the brick color. Mortar affects perceived brick color more than the brick.

 

EDIT: And all the shit Deadshank posted above.  The man has picked up a wealth of knowledge hanging around construction sites over the years.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[Gil Bang 25960]

OP is getting a lot of free advice here that would cost a lot of money elsewhere.  I hope he appreciates it. 

[deadshank 24653]

7 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

OP is getting a lot of free advice here that would cost a lot of money elsewhere.  I hope he appreciates it. 

Take my advice.  I’m not using it. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, deadshank said:

Take my advice.  I’m not using it. 

"Why in my day we used to....... beat 2 rocks together to make fire..."  

[justhookit 4191]

13 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

Im thinking it'll cost 2500 to 3000 for the entire job

[gsoda3 3262]

this is great, really appreciating the wealth of knowledge, thanks.  

 

we'd gotten quotes from GCs for installing the window (cutting/framing/installing and then the masonry work after we procure it) and two of them were right around $2500.  i'm waiting to hear back from a few other places, including dendox's rec.  is justhookit right and that $2500 - $3000 quote too low?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

this is great, really appreciating the wealth of knowledge, thanks.  

 

we'd gotten quotes from GCs for installing the window (cutting/framing/installing and then the masonry work after we procure it) and two of them were right around $2500.  i'm waiting to hear back from a few other places, including dendox's rec.  is justhookit right and that $2500 - $3000 quote too low?

You're about in the ballpark. A good window will run you $500-$1,000 by itself depending on make, size, number of lites, simulated divided lite or not, (aluminum clad, wood vinyl ?).  I'd inquire in detail as to what that quote provides right down to the flashing.

[RPM 26322]

On 9/21/2020 at 1:47 PM, gsoda3 said:

We have a window we're wanting to replace with a bigger one here in Austin..  It's a custom order window on a brick wall.  You guys have any suggestions for shops that do this?  TIA.

[luke duke 6413]

And all the shit Deadshank posted above.  The man has picked up a wealth of knowledge hanging around construction sites over the years.

I had no clue there was a construction site equivalent to a lot lizard. Do they conduct their business in the port-a-potty instead of a truck cab?

[justhookit 4191]

3 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

this is great, really appreciating the wealth of knowledge, thanks.  

 

we'd gotten quotes from GCs for installing the window (cutting/framing/installing and then the masonry work after we procure it) and two of them were right around $2500.  i'm waiting to hear back from a few other places, including dendox's rec.  is justhookit right and that $2500 - $3000 quote too low?

I was really laughing because anytime I’ve thought I knew what a job would run, I’m always way low (just finishing up a custom house build). But if you are including a custom window in your total job price I’d be shocked if you aren’t closer to 5000 when all is said and done. My mom did a similar project on a brick house a few years ago. Hers was work all on one wall also, but it was windows and doors. She ended up around 10,000 in labor plus building materials and 10,000 in custom doors and windows.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

10 minutes ago, justhookit said:

I was really laughing because anytime I’ve thought I knew what a job would run, I’m always way low (just finishing up a custom house build). But if you are including a custom window in your total job price I’d be shocked if you aren’t closer to 5000 when all is said and done. My mom did a similar project on a brick house a few years ago. Hers was work all on one wall also, but it was windows and doors. She ended up around 10,000 in labor plus building materials and 10,000 in custom doors and windows.

Project creep....It can be deadly for the client,  and profitable for the contractor.

[deadshank 24653]

2 hours ago, luke duke said:

 

I had no clue there was a construction site equivalent to a lot lizard. Do they conduct their business in the port-a-potty instead of a truck cab?

 

Or you could just meet me in the alley out back.  

[luke duke 6413]

Or you could just meet me in the alley out back.  

I prefer the ambiance of the shitter.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

51 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Or you could just meet me in the alley out back.  

You gonna roofie him.. hahahahahahah roofers humor.....  NAILED IT....

[Catpfish 618]

15 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You gonna roofie him.. hahahahahahah roofers humor.....  NAILED IT....

Shooting from the hip...and that pitch fell flat

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

Shooting from the hip...and that pitch fell flat

I blame it on Shingles, makes you lose focus.  That or it was just too much over your head.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

Thoughts on these specific windows?

[Axle Hongsnort 208]

I’m in the midst of dealing with two leaking windows on a house we recently bought. Don’t skimp.

[deadshank 24653]

1 hour ago, Axle Hongsnort said:

I’m in the midst of dealing with two leaking windows on a house we recently bought. Don’t skimp.

Is it the window unit leaking (faulty window) or is it leaking at the rough opening (installation)?

Replacement window or original window?

Is window rough opening in brick, stone, stucco or siding?

Is the window leaking at top (header) or bottom of rough opening?

Pics of leaking windows?

[deadshank 24653]

On 7/25/2021 at 10:26 PM, BurntOrange&White said:

Thoughts on these specific windows?

Have never bought a window from BFS.  Have bought rough lumber and trim lumber.   

[Axle Hongsnort 208]

Is it the window unit leaking (faulty window) or is it leaking at the rough opening (installation)?
Replacement window or original window?
Is window rough opening in brick, stone, stucco or siding?
Is the window leaking at top (header) or bottom of rough opening?
Pics of leaking windows?

Both the top and bottom. They were replacements about 5 years ago, but two owners ago so we are not sure who installed them. They are Kolbe and we just had someone that sells them come by. The “gasket” on the bottom one was jacked and was an easy fix, although they said the casing was warped and they could probably get a free replacement window and pay them to install. The top window leaks on the bottom left (when looking out) when it rains real hard. The guy said it looked like they used a vertical window and hung horizontally based on where the Kolbe logo is. That was a surprise as I assume glass could go either way. If that’s case it would seem a warranty would cover but we don’t know how to find out. The guy is doing some research and we’ve yet to hear the verdict. This sucks.

[deadshank 24653]

@Axle Hongsnort

The windows do appear to be improperly flashed.   I now remember your pics from before.

Flashing needs to go behind siding and over the top of the window and 1” down the sides. Back tape flashing with Protecto Wrap.

The cold joint where the metal window frame and the painted 1”x4” trim needs to be caulked with Sonneborn NP-1 or Sikaflex.  No cheap painter’s caulk   

Edited August 8, 2021 by deadshank

[Spaulding Smails 1553]

On 7/25/2021 at 10:26 PM, BurntOrange&White said:

Thoughts on these specific windows?

That series is a MI Window product.  Decent builder-grade window.  Should be fine for Central Texas.  

[ClubWhatever 12144]

Not exactly a windows question but close.  The steel angle lintel over one of my windows was completely blown out with rust.  It looks like it expanded and cracked the mortar between the bricks above the lintel.  So I found a guy to replace the lintel and re-brick over it.  It looks great except now there’s a 1/4” gap between the bottom of the new lintel and the plastic shroud around the window.  This shroud is pretty flimsy plastic that you can easily move with your finger.  Is this gap a big deal and if so what should be done other than getting the guy back out and ripping it all out?   The other windows on the house don’t have a gap there but appear to have some kind of flexible seal.  Is putting caulk in that gap good enough?

Edited May 4, 2023 by ClubWhatever

[deadshank 24653]

15 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

Not exactly a windows question but close.  The steel angle lintel over one of my windows was completely blown out with rust.  It looks like it expanded and cracked the mortar between the bricks above the lintel.  So I found a guy to replace the lintel and re-brick over it.  It looks great except now there’s a 1/4” gap between the bottom of the new lintel and the plastic shroud around the window.  This shroud is pretty flimsy plastic that you can easily move with your finger.  Is this gap a big deal and if so what should be done other than getting the guy back out and ripping it all out?   The other windows on the house don’t have a gap there but appear to have some kind of flexible seal.  Is putting caulk in that gap good enough?

A picture would be nice.

What is  the source of the rust?  Water intrusion?  Are weep holes to allow moisture drainage in place?

Are the windows original equipment or replacement windows?  If original, how old?  

Were the window headers hard flashed with a tape seal overlay?

[ClubWhatever 12144]

10 minutes ago, deadshank said:

A picture would be nice.

What is  the source of the rust?  Water intrusion?  Are weep holes to allow moisture drainage in place?

Are the windows original equipment or replacement windows?  If original, how old?  

Were the window headers hard flashed with a tape seal overlay?

They are replacement windows from before we bought the house.  My guess is they are 10-15 years old.  I didn’t watch the lintel repair so I couldn’t see what was back there.  There were no weep holes.  It appeared the rust started on the exposed edge and ate its way into the flange. The piece they took out looked like it had bites taken out of it in the exposed edge.  

[deadshank 24653]

16 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

They are replacement windows from before we bought the house.  My guess is they are 10-15 years old.  I didn’t watch the lintel repair so I couldn’t see what was back there.  There were no weep holes.  It appeared the rust started on the exposed edge and ate its way into the flange. The piece they took out looked like it had bites taken out of it in the exposed edge.  

Weep holes would be nice.  Caulking that open joint would be OK but also probably not necessary.  The "plastic" thing is most likely a vinyl trim piece for the replacement window assembly.

Any hope for properly flashed windows are long gone as replacement windows typically have the nailing fins removed and are fitted into and shimmed to level and plumb in the rough opening, screwed in to the sides of the rough opening and then caulked where the window frame meets the brick and inside at the drywall  junction. 

Use a good caulk such as Sonneborn NP-1 with the best color match (not at The Home Depot) or Sikaflex (usually at The Home Depot but color selection may be limited).  Or you could find the closest ABC Supply (nationwide roofing supplier) and they will have NP-1.

Where are you?

[ClubWhatever 12144]

Thanks. 

 

11 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Where are you?

Deep South.  There's no eave on that side of house due to the design, and it experiences rain, direct sun, and high humidity 24/7/365.  Some of the other ones are starting to rust too but much more slowly.

[deadshank 24653]

42 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

Thanks. 

 

Deep South.  There's no eave on that side of house due to the design, and it experiences rain, direct sun, and high humidity 24/7/365.  Some of the other ones are starting to rust too but much more slowly.

Grind off the rust, apply metal primer, apply metal paint. 

[Not that Bob 738]

Can someone give me a tutorial, or a vid link, to the proper way to flash a window/door. Emphasis on "proper way".

[deadshank 24653]

20 minutes ago, Not that Bob said:

Can someone give me a tutorial, or a vid link, to the proper way to flash a window/door. Emphasis on "proper way".

I’m your guy.  We flash over a thousand a year. 

[deadshank 24653]

This is pretty close to the way we do it.  The one thing they do that I don't like is the piece of metal header flashing that goes on at the top of the window toward the end of the video.  That piece of flashing needs to turn 1.0" down the left and right side of the window.  It needs to be back-taped, as well.

If you are using the ZIP sheathing system the ZIP tape MUST be used.  Other flashing tapes won't adhere to the ZIP system.  ZIP tape ALWAYS has to be pressed in with a roller.

If you are using regular plywood or OSB sheathing then Protecto Wrap can be used.

 

 

[Not that Bob 738]

Well, I'm behind the times. When I think flashing I think sheet metal.

[deadshank 24653]

2 hours ago, Not that Bob said:

Well, I'm behind the times. When I think flashing I think sheet metal.

Still need metal at the window tops.  Tape at bottom and sides. 
 

Some instances will require sill pans.