Would you take this deal- non progressives only

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

Not really interested in B_T, Hugo etc bc I already know their opinion (and I’m not arguing against that- I’m curious about others on this board who are disaffected former GOP that are now firmly behind the D side) 

Trump loses to Biden 

Gop loses Maine, AZ and Colorado, but keeps IA, NC and Mt and wins back Alabama- so 51/49 GOP

House stays as is with a comfortable lead for Pelosi 

Trump goes on trial for shenanigans and ends up in prison or being pardoned by Biden if he thinks that’s for the good of the country, but after he’s convicted/marginalized/humiliated  and essentially exiled to Mar a Lago  

That gets rid of Trump in White House and humiliates him

Gives Dems the power to appoint nominees  

Obviously kills any chance of major progressive legislation or very left appointments  

makes essentially what happens in this country what can be compromised on by Mitt Romney, Mutkowski, Tester, Manchin (maybe Ron Paul with some civil liberty stuff) and a couple other moderates in Senate with Pelosi and a pretty leftward house  

if you wake up on November 10 after all the mail ins are counted and that’s the results are you happy?  Ok? Pissed off?  

Would you take this as a given to avoid the 35% chance Trump stays on in the White House (I don’t think it’s that high but I saw a couple models have it at that and the betting odds are 53/46), vs rolling the dice and getting everything you want?  
 

as a Never Trump conservative that thinks Biden is a decent man, but wrong  about most stuff (not Robert Gates but nodded head in agreement with him when I saw his take) I’d obviously take this deal in a heartbeat- though I’m as uninterested in hearing from other conservatives as I am from progressives on this question  

 

 

 

[Celery Man 20886]

No

[hookemATL 11611]

3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

No

TLDR

[ztejas 43266]

Sure. But Trump isn't going to prison. 

And I'm socially progressive but certainly not fiscally so. I care much more about potentially maintaining a liberal SC than who is in the White House. 

[David Dennison 18658]

9 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Sure. But Trump isn't going to prison. 

And I'm socially progressive but certainly not fiscally so. I care much more about potentially maintaining a liberal SC than who is in the White House. 

Donald Trump is going to face a slew of state charges. Whether he goes to prison remains to be seen.

[bernorange 8348]

20 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

...makes essentially what happens in this country what can be compromised on by Mitt Romney, Mutkowski, Tester, Manchin (maybe Ron Paul with some civil liberty stuff) and a couple other moderates in Senate with Pelosi and a pretty leftward house  ...

They call me Mr. Knowitall
I will not compromise
I will not be told what to do
I shall not step aside

[ztejas 43266]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Donald Trump is going to face a slew of state charges. Whether he goes to prison remains to be seen.

Way to derail the thread 4 replies in. Aren't there like 13 other threads where we can discuss Trump's impeachment and potential charges? Or lack thereof?

[David Dennison 18658]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Way to derail the thread 4 replies in. Aren't there like 13 other threads where we can discuss Trump's impeachment and potential charges? Or lack thereof?

Oh, I'm sorry, I must have been confused about the part where you said, "Sure. But Trump isn't going to prison."

My bad, Mr. Thread Cop.

[ztejas 43266]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Oh, I'm sorry, I must have been confused about the part where you said, "Sure. But Trump isn't going to prison."

My bad, Mr. Thread Cop.

If you actually think Trump is going to prison you're a fucking moron. Liberal diehard or not. 

But you must have missed the title where it clearly states "non-progressives only" meaning he's not looking for your opinion here. 

[David Dennison 18658]

6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

If you actually think Trump is going to prison you're a fucking moron. Liberal diehard or not. 

But you must have missed the title where it clearly states "non-progressives only" meaning he's not looking for your opinion here. 

There is nothing protecting him from state prosecution once he is no longer president.

Whether he goes to prison remains to be seen. 

[Mole 4320]

If the question is do I want a moderate government and a full reckoning with Trumpism, the answer is yes.

I don't think that reckoning is possible with a center right Senate. The problem is bigger than Trump, even though he's a giant problem. We'd still largely have a Senate that voted to acquit. That's an on-the-record, hearty endorsement of corruption.

That needs to be rooted out. If it were possible to root that corruption out without a hard swing left, I'd love it. I don't think that's possible. In the medium term, Trumpism is a champion for the progressive cause.

[RDCanecutter 26276]

If I wake up on Nov. 10th, and my worst problem is a bunch of politicians doing something, I call it a win.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

4 minutes ago, Mole said:

If the question is do I want a moderate government and a full reckoning with Trumpism, the answer is yes.

I don't think that reckoning is possible with a center right Senate. The problem is bigger than Trump, even though he's a giant problem. We'd still largely have a Senate that voted to acquit. That's an on-the-record, hearty endorsement of corruption.

That needs to be rooted out. If it were possible to root that corruption out without a hard swing left, I'd love it. I don't think that's possible. In the medium term, Trumpism is a champion for the progressive cause.

What’s your political flavor?  I think you might be right in your suppositions as to if that’s possible. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

2 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

If I wake up on Nov. 10th, and my worst problem is a bunch of politicians doing something, I call it a win.

This is always the right answer imo, but not what this thread is about in a political forum, obviously. 
 

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Not really interested in B_T, Hugo etc bc I already know their opinion (and I’m not arguing against that- I’m curious about others on this board who are disaffected former GOP that are now firmly behind the D side) 

Trump loses to Biden 

Gop loses Maine, AZ and Colorado, but keeps IA, NC and Mt and wins back Alabama- so 51/49 GOP

House stays as is with a comfortable lead for Pelosi 

Trump goes on trial for shenanigans and ends up in prison or being pardoned by Biden if he thinks that’s for the good of the country, but after he’s convicted/marginalized/humiliated  and essentially exiled to Mar a Lago  

That gets rid of Trump in White House and humiliates him

Gives Dems the power to appoint nominees  

Obviously kills any chance of major progressive legislation or very left appointments  

makes essentially what happens in this country what can be compromised on by Mitt Romney, Mutkowski, Tester, Manchin (maybe Ron Paul with some civil liberty stuff) and a couple other moderates in Senate with Pelosi and a pretty leftward house  

if you wake up on November 10 after all the mail ins are counted and that’s the results are you happy?  Ok? Pissed off?  

Would you take this as a given to avoid the 35% chance Trump stays on in the White House (I don’t think it’s that high but I saw a couple models have it at that and the betting odds are 53/46), vs rolling the dice and getting everything you want?  
 

as a Never Trump conservative that thinks Biden is a decent man, but wrong  about most stuff (not Robert Gates but nodded head in agreement with him when I saw his take) I’d obviously take this deal in a heartbeat- though I’m as uninterested in hearing from other conservatives as I am from progressives on this question  

 

 

 

I realize you aren't looking for an answer from me, but there is a solid chance that Mitch would confirm 0 Biden nominees, leftist or otherwise,, as long as the GOP has the Senate. In order for your proposal to work, you'd need that GOP senate to actually be interested in legitimate governance. As bad as Trump is, its the Senate that really has us on the brink of collapse. Trump should have and could have been easily checked.  Instead, they allowed him to run rampant and will try to check anything that steadies the ship.

But I might take that trade if you put Mitch and Barr in jail with Trump and put someone with actual integrity in charge of a GOP led Senate. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

I realize you aren't looking for an answer from me, but there is a solid chance that Mitch would confirm 0 Biden nominees, leftist or otherwise,, as long as the GOP has the Senate. In order for your proposal to work, you'd need that GOP senate to actually be interested in legitimate governance. As bad as Trump is, its the Senate that really has us on the brink of collapse. Trump should have and could have been easily checked.  Instead, they allowed him to run rampant and will try to check anything that steadies the ship.

But I might take that trade if you put Mitch and Barr in jail with Trump and put someone with actual integrity in charge of a GOP led Senate. 

Ha. Maybe?  I don’t think if he only had 51 he could go full on obstructionist. Romney governed Massachusetts he knows how to play ball. I don’t get the sense Murkowski is a partisan. I think of Collins (I had her losing but flip NC for Maine if you care to) as someone who, faced with a Dem for president and being the deciding vote probably could be takes into some stuff but you might be right. 
flip side- if the Dems end up at 50/50 that gives Manchin and Siemela and tester a shitload of power, should they choose to wield it. 

[Continental Op 3934]

Voted for Dole in 96. Voted libertarian and both sidesed hard enough to make Anastasis look like a piker from 2000- 2012.  Voted Clinton in 16 and will vote for Biden in November.  The current incarnation of the GOP is evil and 100 percent incapable of acting in good faith.  I want them to get fucked good and hard and will be disappointed with anything less than complete Democrat control.  No quarter for the GOP.

[Mole 4320]

12 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

What’s your political flavor?  I think you might be right in your suppositions as to if that’s possible. 

My voting is all over the map. I run every candidate through a three point test (are they not hopelessly corrupt, are they thoughtful and intelligent, are they competent) before considering ideology. Usually that leaves one option at best.

All things being equal, I’d prefer to vote for a moderate Republican (prior to this dark turn), but I’m probably more inclined to stretch to the left than the right. What I mean is, if 0 is dead center and negative numbers are left and positives are right, I’m maybe at a 1 or a 2, but 4 is too far right and -4 might be tolerable.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

8 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Ha. Maybe?  I don’t think if he only had 51 he could go full on obstructionist. Romney governed Massachusetts he knows how to play ball. I don’t get the sense Murkowski is a partisan. I think of Collins (I had her losing but flip NC for Maine if you care to) as someone who, faced with a Dem for president and being the deciding vote probably could be takes into some stuff but you might be right. 
flip side- if the Dems end up at 50/50 that gives Manchin and Siemela and tester a shitload of power, should they choose to wield it. 

But I do also think you are miscalculating. All the lower court shenanigans Mitch pulled largely flew under the radar. This new transparently hypocritical appointment to SCOTUS will need to be corrected. Otherwise, your trade off does nothing but increase the polarization that has us where we are. And where we are is on the brink of real civil unrest if not collapse.

Most Trumpists just expect America to continue on no matter what. But nations aren't self fulfilling due to their having names. They are social compacts.  

Edited September 26, 2020 by FondrenRoad

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

16 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

But I do also think you are miscalculating. All the lower court shenanigans Mitch pulled largely flew under the radar. This new transparently hypocritical appointment to SCOTUS will need to be corrected. Otherwise, your trade off does nothing but increase the polarization that has us where we are. And where we are is on the brink of real civil unrest if not collapse.

Most Trumpists just expect America to continue on no matter what. But nations aren't self fulfilling due to their having names. They are social compacts.  

Maybe. I’m hoping to avoid any more trump and I’m hoping to avoid any kind of revolution or burning it to cinders. Don’t know that this can or will happen but I’d prefer it to a packed court, strict majoritarian senate, adding two new states, adding a bunch of justices to the Supreme Court etc. 

I’d rather not wake up in 50 years and see 387 Supreme Court justice members and have states like northern Wyoming, southern Wyoming, eastern Wyoming and western Wyoming as back and forth continues to escalate. 

I’m not going to bitch about anything that comes as a push back to Trump bc shit happens when you turn over power to a reprehensible clown and sometimes you just have to wear it, but I don’t think that such a way of wearing it is likely good for me or mine, or the country in general and I’d just as soon skip the reconciliation squads if we could. 

most of this is tongue in cheek- of course. 
 

I thought of this as concurrently to my reading the NY Post case to vote for trump (I’m not) if you hate Trump (as a bull work against progressiveism) and progressives and  my wife came into the room very pissed because her cousin and her best friend are voting GOP for the first time in their lives (they are 40+) because they hate all the riots and don’t want Dems in charge. 
 

I don’t know what the appetite is for people who think Trump sucks but don’t trust the Dems to drive the car- thus this post, wondering if there are other anti Trumpsters out there that would take a deal like this and hold their nose. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[Brisketexan 104624]

Trump isn’t the problem. He’s a symptom.
Mitch isn’t the problem. He’s a symptom.

A GOP that has a platform of authoritarian, anti-the American people idiocy is the problem. Anything that doesn’t prevent that problem from controlling and killing the republic is not a solution at all.

This doesn’t end with a negotiated peace. It ends on the deck of the Missouri in Tokyo Bay. When a party goes the way the GOP has gone, it’s the only ending.

And yes, getting there is going to be horrific. Which is why many of us have been ringing the alarm bells about their shit for years. Don’t start down this road, because this is how it ends.

And here we are. So, no, I will consider any outcome that leaves the GOP in control of either the WH or the senate to be a loss, not a win.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Trump isn’t the problem. He’s a symptom.
Mitch isn’t the problem. He’s a symptom.

A GOP that has a platform of authoritarian, anti-the American people idiocy is the problem. Anything that doesn’t prevent that problem from controlling and killing the republic is not a solution at all.

This doesn’t end with a negotiated peace. It ends on the deck of the Missouri in Tokyo Bay. When a party goes the way the GOP has gone, it’s the only ending.

And yes, getting there is going to be horrific. Which is why many of us have been ringing the alarm bells about their shit for years. Don’t start down this road, because this is how it ends.

And here we are. So, no, I will consider any outcome that leaves the GOP in control of either the WH or the senate to be a loss, not a win.

Ok it’s a loss, but not a total one thus the question is would you take it. 
 

that’s like asking- what’s the minimum amount of money you’d lock in as a salary for life. Or your maximum weight. Not what you’d be happy with but- if I never get fatter than 250 (assuming you are like 280 right now) would I take it. 
guys that are faithful to their wives make this deal at marriage for example- this is the sex I’m getting for life and it’s probably not getting better than it is now. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

7 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Maybe. I’m hoping to avoid any more trump and I’m hoping to avoid any kind of revolution or burning it to cinders. Don’t know that this can or will happen but I’d prefer it to a packed court, strict majoritarian senate, adding two new states, adding a bunch of justices to the Supreme Court etc. 

I’d rather not wake up in 50 years and see 387 Supreme Court justice members and have states like northern Wyoming, southern Wyoming, eastern Wyoming and western Wyoming as back and forth continues to escalate. 

I’m not going to bitch about anything that comes as a push back to Trump bc shit happens when you turn over power to a reprehensible clown and sometimes you just have to wear it, but I don’t think that such a way of wearing it is likely good for me or mine, or the country in general and I’d just as soon skip the reconciliation squads if we could. 

most of this is tongue in cheek- of course. 
 

I thought of this as concurrently to my reading the NY Post case to vote for trump (I’m not) if you hate Trump (as a bull work against progressiveism) and progressives and  my wife came into the room very pissed because her cousin and her best friend are voting GOP for the first time in their lives (they are 40+) because they hate all the riots and don’t want Dems in charge. 
 

I don’t know what the appetite is for people who think Trump sucks but don’t trust the Dems to drive the car- thus this post, wondering if there are other anti Trumpsters out there that would take a deal like this and hold their nose. 

There is a solution. Consistency.  Let the winner of the election appoint the justice. Then no court packing is needed. 

I also think we passed the tipping point on Trump being a bulwark against progressivism if he ever really was. If anything, I think a Trump win will hasten progressivism.  Not because he supports it, but because he will tear the nation completely down and it will need to be rebuilt, perhaps as separate states.   Biden is the milquetoast centrist that will allow income inequality to keep on keeping on as is while providing just enough welfare to make poor people passive. He should be your guy if thats what you want. 

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Trump isn’t the problem. He’s a symptom.
Mitch isn’t the problem. He’s a symptom.

A GOP that has a platform of authoritarian, anti-the American people idiocy is the problem. Anything that doesn’t prevent that problem from controlling and killing the republic is not a solution at all.

This doesn’t end with a negotiated peace. It ends on the deck of the Missouri in Tokyo Bay. When a party goes the way the GOP has gone, it’s the only ending.

And yes, getting there is going to be horrific. Which is why many of us have been ringing the alarm bells about their shit for years. Don’t start down this road, because this is how it ends.

And here we are. So, no, I will consider any outcome that leaves the GOP in control of either the WH or the senate to be a loss, not a win.

Trump is a symptom. Mitch is a problem. He knows what he is doing. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

There is a solution. Consistency.  Let the winner of the election appoint the justice. Then no court packing is needed. 

I also think we passed the tipping point on Trump being a bulwark against progressivism if he ever really was. If anything, I think a Trump win will hasten progressivism.  Not because he supports it, but because he will tear the nation completely down and it will need to be rebuilt, perhaps as separate states.   Biden is the milquetoast centrist that will allow income inequality to keep on keeping on as is while providing just enough welfare to make poor people passive. He should be your guy if thats what you want. 

 

If he’s elected with a gop senate or a 50/50 Senate that doesn’t go bat shit crazy I’m perfectly fine with that scenario. 

[Earl Haffler 584]

i'd take this deal all day long.  It would bring the country back to normal dysfunction with appropriate checks and balances, not the crazy shit that is going on right now.

[Dahobbs 17447]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Not really interested in B_T, Hugo etc bc I already know their opinion (and I’m not arguing against that- I’m curious about others on this board who are disaffected former GOP that are now firmly behind the D side) 

Trump loses to Biden 

Gop loses Maine, AZ and Colorado, but keeps IA, NC and Mt and wins back Alabama- so 51/49 GOP

House stays as is with a comfortable lead for Pelosi 

Trump goes on trial for shenanigans and ends up in prison or being pardoned by Biden if he thinks that’s for the good of the country, but after he’s convicted/marginalized/humiliated  and essentially exiled to Mar a Lago  

That gets rid of Trump in White House and humiliates him

Gives Dems the power to appoint nominees  

Obviously kills any chance of major progressive legislation or very left appointments  

makes essentially what happens in this country what can be compromised on by Mitt Romney, Mutkowski, Tester, Manchin (maybe Ron Paul with some civil liberty stuff) and a couple other moderates in Senate with Pelosi and a pretty leftward house  

if you wake up on November 10 after all the mail ins are counted and that’s the results are you happy?  Ok? Pissed off?  

Would you take this as a given to avoid the 35% chance Trump stays on in the White House (I don’t think it’s that high but I saw a couple models have it at that and the betting odds are 53/46), vs rolling the dice and getting everything you want?  
 

as a Never Trump conservative that thinks Biden is a decent man, but wrong  about most stuff (not Robert Gates but nodded head in agreement with him when I saw his take) I’d obviously take this deal in a heartbeat- though I’m as uninterested in hearing from other conservatives as I am from progressives on this question  

 

 

 

If Biden pardons Trump, I will personally punch Biden in the dick. 

-signed man who voted for GW. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

If Biden pardons Trump, I will personally punch Biden in the dick. 

I do t care one way or another. Trump can rot in jail. Trump can be pardoned. Whatever is best for country. Makes no difference to me. Him going to jail seems like it sets a bad precedent to me but maybe it’s a good one. Basically the death of the Roman Republic saw every consul ended up bankrupt or jailed faxing legal issues. That doesn’t sound awesome whenever we transfer power, but maybe it’s just be a one time thing (o doubt that once we get a taste for it). 

[Brisketexan 104624]

19 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Ok it’s a loss, but not a total one thus the question is would you take it. 
 

that’s like asking- what’s the minimum amount of money you’d lock in as a salary for life. Or your maximum weight. Not what you’d be happy with but- if I never get fatter than 250 (assuming you are like 280 right now) would I take it. 
guys that are faithful to their wives make this deal at marriage for example- this is the sex I’m getting for life and it’s probably not getting better than it is now. 

The problem is, it IS a total loss.

If you have a horrific cancer, and it eventually bursts out in a tumor coming out of your arm, cutting it off feels better.  It may even slow the cancer down, so you die in 3 years instead of 2.  But you still die.

Cure the cancer.  Or die from it.  Those are the only two options.  That's the way it is with cancer.  I didn't ask for the GOP and their supporters to be a fatal cancer - they decided to be.  So be it.  We either cure it, or we die.  Delaying our death a couple of years -- what's the fucking point?

I fight for a living.  I regularly settle disputes, reaching resolutions that are imperfect for all concerned.  But sometimes, I have a case that only has one acceptable outcome: fight to the end, because anything less than winning is an unacceptable loss.  So, either win, or go down fighting.  Those cases come along when the opposing side is irrational and bent on your destruction.  You can't compromise or settle with someone who will not stop until they have achieved that goal.  We are in just such a fight.  The more of you who realize that, the better.

EDIT/ADDITION: I have been politically aware and active since the late 1970s (yeah, I started young).  I have always had opinions, political leanings, and preferences.  Never before have I viewed ANY American political party or movement an existential threat.  Never.  Sure, there have been some ideologies on the extremes that were dangerous in the abstract, but they remained on the fringe.  Over the past 8-10 years, I have seen that change, dramatically.  I have seen not a fringe party, but a mainstream party, with actual power, bent on destroying norms, pulling up the ladder of accountability (elections that could remove them from power), with a complete disdain for the rule of law and an arrogant "and what the fuck are you pussies gonna do about it?" attitude to go with it, lording it over all of the people, no matter what the cost.  Absolute power, no matter what the cost, no matter the will of the people.  That is exactly, to the letter, how you destroy a free Republic.  It's written into every history book.  And we're doing it right now.

No, nothing less than the complete defeat of this iteration of the GOP will save us.  And I doubt we can pull it off, because 40% of this country is hell-bent on pulling the cord on our suicide vest.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Brisketexan

[Dahobbs 17447]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

The problem is, it IS a total loss.

If you have a horrific cancer, and it eventually bursts out in a tumor coming out of your arm, cutting it off feels better.  It may even slow the cancer down, so you die in 3 years instead of 2.  But you still die.

Cure the cancer.  Or die from it.  Those are the only two options.  That's the way it is with cancer.  I didn't ask for the GOP and their supporters to be a fatal cancer - they decided to be.  So be it.  We either cure it, or we die.  Delaying our death a couple of years -- what's the fucking point?

I fight for a living.  I regularly settle disputes, reaching resolutions that are imperfect for all concerned.  But sometimes, I have a case that only has one acceptable outcome: fight to the end, because anything less than winning is an unacceptable loss.  So, either win, or go down fighting.  Those cases come along when the opposing side is irrational and bent on your destruction.  You can't compromise or settle with someone who will not stop until they have achieved that goal.  We are in just such a fight.  The more of you who realize that, the better.

Correct. If the GOP takes anything but a total loss, the Republic is over. @Wulaw Horn can't see it because he doesn't want to believe it. The GOP, in its current form, is evil. It is cancer. It must be destroyed and everyone that supports it must either be jailed or shamed for falling for lies and corruption. Democracy cannot survive when represented by a party that has nothing but disdain for it. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

Correct. If the GOP takes anything but a total loss, the Republic is over. @Wulaw Horn can't see it because he doesn't want to believe it. The GOP, in its current form, is evil. It is cancer. It must be destroyed and everyone that supports it must either be jailed or shamed for falling for lies and corruption. Democracy cannot survive when represented by a party that has nothing but disdain for it. 

The cool thing about that is it certainly becomes a self fulfilling prophesy when everyone thinks that way (or enough people do). 
I think y’all are Jacobins and are going to radicalize some in the middle and lose more in the middle to the other side (my wife’s friends/cousin). Hell she voted for Cruz (and I didn’t/ ha what a world) first time ever voting gop in 2018 and she doesn’t even like Cruz but saw the Kavanaugh hearings and didn’t buy the left and identified him with her son. 
she won’t vote Trump in 2020 but will be a straight ticket GOP voter eventually if it goes down with reconciliation squads and everyone in jail and adding states. 
I could be wrong. I lost $9200 betting on Hillary to win in 2016 so my crystal ball might be broken. 
the thing about going to war is you might lose. Sometimes it has to happen. It’s always ugly. I have no idea what the end result was, just throwing this out as a question to non progressives and non Trump supporters. 
 

[CooterBrown 17911]

she won’t vote Trump in 2020 but will be a straight ticket GOP voter eventually if it goes down with reconciliation squads and everyone in jail and adding states. 

 

 

Just curious, why’s she against some Americans having the same rights and representation as she does?

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

Just now, CooterBrown said:

 

Just curious, why’s she against some Americans having the same rights and representation as she does?

She’s not. She’s a lifelong Democrat. She saw the confirmation hearings and thought it was a flat out scam and wanted nothing to do with making that the senate majority. 
she dislikes the GOP bc she thinks they are assholes. She has a lesbian sister. She’s pro choice in theory (not for herself). But she thinks that the Dems might be bigger lunatics than the people she doesn’t like. And if they go the way of

jailing and shaming anyone that is a republican ( or enabler- Da Hobbs words not mine! She will be convinced that’s true and vote GOP. All while hating doing it. 

[Dahobbs 17447]

12 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

The cool thing about that is it certainly becomes a self fulfilling prophesy when everyone thinks that way (or enough people do). 
I think y’all are Jacobins and are going to radicalize some in the middle and lose more in the middle to the other side (my wife’s friends/cousin). Hell she voted for Cruz (and I didn’t/ ha what a world) first time ever voting gop in 2018 and she doesn’t even like Cruz but saw the Kavanaugh hearings and didn’t buy the left and identified him with her son. 
she won’t vote Trump in 2020 but will be a straight ticket GOP voter eventually if it goes down with reconciliation squads and everyone in jail and adding states. 
I could be wrong. I lost $9200 betting on Hillary to win in 2016 so my crystal ball might be broken. 
the thing about going to war is you might lose. Sometimes it has to happen. It’s always ugly. I have no idea what the end result was, just throwing this out as a question to non progressives and non Trump supporters. 
 

Then she is lost. If she sees what is happening and thinks Trump and the GOP are anything but the end of the Republic, she is a fool. I can't do anything about that. The world was always destined to be ended by fools I suppose. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

42 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If he’s elected with a gop senate or a 50/50 Senate that doesn’t go bat shit crazy I’m perfectly fine with that scenario. 

Are you happy with violence in the streets as well?  I think you are operating under the assumption that things will just carry on because they have before. They won't. 

[RDCanecutter 26276]

Pics of conflicted wife's friends/cousin not showing up.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

Are you happy with violence in the streets as well?  I think you are operating under the assumption that things will just carry on because they have before. They won't. 

I think it will. I suspect Biden gets elected and we don’t hear much about Corona nor riots/protests in the streets. I think the media immediately goes into protect midterms 2022 and retain the whitehouse in 2024 and the pressure gets ratcheted down a ton. 
That’s a prediction- I could well be wrong. You might be right. Nothing but time will tell on that. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

2 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

Pics of conflicted wife's friends/cousin not showing up.

The friend you want to see. She was really really pretty and then got bolt ons. The cousin is maybe the ugliest woman I’ve ever seen. Cousin is like 2nd cousin first removed. They are from east Texas so they act like it’s a first cousin. 

[Biff Tannen 45495]

13 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

She’s not. She’s a lifelong Democrat. She saw the confirmation hearings and thought it was a flat out scam and wanted nothing to do with making that the senate majority. 
she dislikes the GOP bc she thinks they are assholes. She has a lesbian sister. She’s pro choice in theory (not for herself). But she thinks that the Dems might be bigger lunatics than the people she doesn’t like. And if they go the way of

jailing and shaming anyone that is a republican ( or enabler- Da Hobbs words not mine! She will be convinced that’s true and vote GOP. All while hating doing it. 

That’s just wild. She’s quite the unicorn it seems. Maybe a really really stupid unicorn. 

[Brisketexan 104624]

20 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

the thing about going to war is you might lose. Sometimes it has to happen. It’s always ugly. I have no idea what the end result was, just throwing this out as a question to non progressives and non Trump supporters. 

Yeah, that's absolutely right.  Which is why it's dumb to fucking start one.  It's why plenty of us shouted as many warnings as possible about the radicalization and spiraling insanity of the GOP.  We might as well have been yelling "DON'T FUCKING ATTACK PEARL HARBOR!  WE KNOW HOW THIS ENDS!"

But once started, there's no choice but to finish it.  I never, ever, ever wanted this for MY country.  But here we are.  If you think there's any cure for the party of QAnon, naked corruption, contempt for the people, their votes, and the rule of law, OTHER than crushing them, I'd love to fucking hear it.  Your entire worldview depends upon the insane waking up one day and deciding to be sane.  That worldview is at odds with all known history and reality.

[orangecat92 306]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Ha. Maybe?  I don’t think if he only had 51 he could go full on obstructionist. Romney governed Massachusetts he knows how to play ball. I don’t get the sense Murkowski is a partisan. I think of Collins (I had her losing but flip NC for Maine if you care to) as someone who, faced with a Dem for president and being the deciding vote probably could be takes into some stuff but you might be right. 
flip side- if the Dems end up at 50/50 that gives Manchin and Siemela and tester a shitload of power, should they choose to wield it. 

I’ve been in Alaska for 2 years.  Murkowski is a Democrat with an r next to her name...catholic, pro choice, voted against kavanaugh and will find a reason to vote against Barrett.  Do not count her in your scenario, which makes it 50 to 50, and all Biden’s appointments would get confirmed.  

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

That’s just wild. She’s quite the unicorn it seems. Maybe a really really stupid unicorn. 

Y’all lost 3 seats over the confirmation hearings. Maybe she’s not as much of a unicorn as you think 

[Dahobbs 17447]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Y’all lost 3 seats over the confirmation hearings. Maybe she’s not as much of a unicorn as you think 

But she is stupid. Or rather, was conned. I don't blame people morally for falling for the con job. But they damn sure need to be embarrassed about it and learn a goddamn lesson. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

9 minutes ago, orangecat92 said:

I’ve been in Alaska for 2 years.  Murkowski is a Democrat with an r next to her name...catholic, pro choice, voted against kavanaugh and will find a reason to vote against Barrett.  Do not count her in your scenario, which makes it 50 to 50, and all Biden’s appointments would get confirmed.  

That’s my point- she wouldn’t be hard to persuade to walk across the aisle on a bunch of different stuff. But she’s not going to vote to pack the court or rubber stamp anything way left that Pelosi does. Unless she just switched parties. In which case she’d have very little actual power. 

[Brisketexan 104624]

10 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Y’all lost 3 seats over the confirmation hearings. Maybe she’s not as much of a unicorn as you think 

Or.....and here's a wacky theory.....the Dems lost three seats because of the partisan makeup of the states of those seats.

Mean, stupid, and irrational are VERY attractive positions for a large portion of humanity.  Again, pick up the history books -- "I'll hurt other people to make you feel better" is a very winning platform.  It works.  And it works on Americans because we aren't special.  Fuck, we might be dumber than most, precisely BECAUSE we think we're special.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

11 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

But she is stupid. Or rather, was conned. I don't blame people morally for falling for the con job. But they damn sure need to be embarrassed about it and learn a goddamn lesson. 

So, at what point do I get sent to prison in your world?  My last note for a GOP president was 2004 for W. I voted for Cruz three times in 2012 and again for pres in 2016, but not in 2018 after he cow towed to trump. I didn’t vote in 2018. Probably won’t vote in 2020. If I do it won’t be for Biden or trump. Do I have to go to prison with rep straight ticket  GOP voters or can I get off with some time in the stockades instead?  Do you need to throw lettuce and tomatoes at me or will just one type of veggie suffice? Or is my punishment worse for some reason?  
Just curious as to who gets the payback and how much of it. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[orangecat92 306]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

That’s my point- she wouldn’t be hard to persuade to walk across the aisle on a bunch of different stuff. But she’s not going to vote to pack the court or rubber stamp anything way left that Pelosi does. Unless she just switched parties. In which case she’d have very little actual power. 

That is my question.  Are there any dem. Senators not voting for a packed court.?

[Dahobbs 17447]

Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

So, at what point do I get sent to prison in your world?  My last note for a GOP president was 2004 for W. I voted for Cruz three times in 2012 and again for pres in 2016, but not in 2018 after he cow towed to trump. I didn’t vote in 2018. Probably won’t vote in 2020. If I do it won’t be for Biden or trump. Do I have to go to prison with regs fraught ticker GOP. Others or can I get off with some time in the stockades instead. Or is my punishment worse for some reason?  

Everyone single GOP person in congress should go to prison, imho. They have all violated their oath to the consitution and put themselves and party power over the country  Voters should only be shamed unless they engaged in illegal conduct. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Or.....and here's a wacky theory.....the Dems lost three seats because of the partisan makeup of the states of those seats.

Mean, stupid, and irrational are VERY attractive positions for a large portion of humanity.  Again, pick up the history books -- "I'll hurt other people to make you feel better" is a very winning platform.  It works.  And it works on Americans because we aren't special.  Fuck, we might be dumber than most, precisely BECAUSE we think we're special.

Those three states that had previously elected those very Dem senators, and where those Senators were running ahead of their opponents prior to the confirmation hearings. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

1 minute ago, orangecat92 said:

That is my question.  Are there any dem. Senators not voting for a packed court.?

My supposition would be no- but maybe manchin?  Maybe tester?