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Move To Ban The Eyes of Texas

Slick16

By Slick16
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bschoolprof

bschoolprof 6221

Posted
Posted

Not that it probably matters, but there’s no clear evidence the song was actually performed in blackface (despite what some sloppy modern day newspaper accounts suggest). It seems highly likely there was blackface at the show, given the nature of minstrels, but it was quite common in that era (early 1900s) to have only the end men comedians in blackface while the musicians played songs. And the skit that set up the song (an Aggie on his way to see the UT president) is not consistent with a typical blackface farce (tamu like ut was segregated). 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13318

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Posted
10 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

Not that it probably matters, but there’s no clear evidence the song was actually performed in blackface (despite what some sloppy modern day newspaper accounts suggest). It seems highly likely there was blackface at the show, given the nature of minstrels, but it was quite common in that era (early 1900s) to have only the end men comedians in blackface while the musicians played songs. And the skit that set up the song (an Aggie on his way to see the UT president) is not consistent with a typical blackface farce (tamu like ut was segregated). 

There are many assumptions in the call to remove the eyes as the school song. Maybe this occurred. Maybe this person meant this when they wrote that. Not very fact-based.

the school should definitely apologize for any involvement with minstrel shows and also rename anything that is currently named after confederate “heroes” or anyone who actively fought against integration. This should have already been done by now. 

The Eyes of Texas is now stained regardless of the truth. And perhaps it deserves that. Who knows. Professor Gordon got his wish. He convinced the players that it’s racist, so now it is.  Play it at away games, and UT fans might as well put on white KKK hats.

UT will ultimately agree to stop playing it, but some fans will dig their heels in and sing it that much more. It will be a shit show.

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BigHorn'13

BigHorn'13 3346

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

There are many assumptions in the call to remove the eyes as the school song. Maybe this occurred. Maybe this person meant this when they wrote that. Not very fact-based.

the school should definitely apologize for any involvement with minstrel shows and also rename anything that is currently named after confederate “heroes” or anyone who actively fought against integration. This should have already been done by now. 

The Eyes of Texas is now stained regardless of the truth. And perhaps it deserves that. Who knows. Professor Gordon got his wish. He convinced the players that it’s racist, so now it is.  Play it at away games, and UT fans might as well put on white KKK hats.

UT will ultimately agree to stop playing it, but some fans will dig their heels in and sing it that much more. It will be a shit show.

Admittedly I haven't been following much football and have only seen references to this subject in other threads so please forgive my ignorance. Is this really a thing with the players or are you being hyperbolic? I hadn't even heard of this until last night. 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13318

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18 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

There are many assumptions in the call to remove the eyes as the school song. Maybe this occurred. Maybe this person meant this when they wrote that. Not very fact-based.

the school should definitely apologize for any involvement with minstrel shows and also rename anything that is currently named after confederate “heroes” or anyone who actively fought against integration. This should have already been done by now. 

The Eyes of Texas is now stained regardless of the truth. And perhaps it deserves that. Who knows. Professor Gordon got his wish. He convinced the players that it’s racist, so now it is.  Play it at away games, and UT fans might as well put on white KKK hats.

UT will ultimately agree to stop playing it, but some fans will dig their heels in and sing it that much more. It will be a shit show.

Forgot to add one comment and cannot edit now. I completely understand and agree that white people do not get to define what is racist to an African-American. Whether that is one person or much large groups. Anyone’s opinion is valid.

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 11599

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I think when you go after something like this, you give fuel to the ppl looking to blunt the BLM movement.

Its like the Aziz Ansari allegation during #Metoo.

Of all the things to go after... all the change that the Athletes could ask for... they go after a song that might have, well most likely was done in black face. It’s not a racist don’t but could have been performed in a racist way.

Are we not supposed to enjoy Othello because Laurence Olivier did in black face?

Are we not to enjoy Lethal Weapon 5 or 6 due to half the movie being done in black face? Or is it more offensive when Riggs was played by a white man using Black voice for the other half?

 

 

where does it end?

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BigHorn'13

BigHorn'13 3346

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Posted
22 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Admittedly I haven't been following much football and have only seen references to this subject in other threads so please forgive my ignorance. Is this really a thing with the players or are you being hyperbolic? I hadn't even heard of this until last night. 

Ah, a whole thread on the football board. I'll admit to being an idiot at times. 

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scottsins

scottsins 1928

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Posted
I think when you go after something like this, you give fuel to the ppl looking to blunt the BLM movement.
Its like the Aziz Ansari allegation during #Metoo.
Of all the things to go after... all the change that the Athletes could ask for... they go after a song that might have, well most likely was done in black face. It’s not a racist don’t but could have been performed in a racist way.
Are we not supposed to enjoy Othello because Laurence Olivier did in black face?
Are we not to enjoy Lethal Weapon 5 or 6 due to half the movie being done in black face? Or is it more offensive when Riggs was played by a white man using Black voice for the other half?
 
 
where does it end?

I mean, I’m not behind the banning of the Eyes, but your post implies that this THE THING (singular) that they chose to go after, out of “all of the change the athletes could ask for”.

That implication is fucking inaccurate and stupid AF. It’s one of 8 bullet points of asks from a list of proposals specific the The University and athletics.

It’s like if they abandoned these goals than suddenly their main goal of “no more police murdering blacks” would magically come to fruition.
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phdhorn

phdhorn 6224

Posted
Posted
Quote

Al-Nasser Lawal, a UT-Austin senior and president of the UT-Austin chapter of the NAACP, said talks between administrators and Black student groups had produced little results.

"As Black students, we kind of feel as if it’s not like our voices are heard," he told the Tribune. "The main objective of the administration and the campus is just to appease their wealthy donors so that they can continue to get that funding, and that they don’t really have our best interests at heart."

Well, this guy gets it at least.  Yes, that's pretty much the main objective now of all university existence (half-joking, actually).  This suit probably won't go anywhere, the Fifth Circuit is pretty conservative and would slap down any more regional Federal rulings.  Although an injunction to temporarily stay the singing?  Nah.

However, I think The Eyes is eventually doomed.  It's just a matter of time if/when the monies which don't want it > the monies that do.  
This suit doesn't surprise me in the least, and stuff like this will keep coming up.  Eventually I think we'll have the same controversies (i.e. "I don't want to be on the field or sing etc.") return.  

 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13318

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

However, I think The Eyes is eventually doomed.  It's just a matter of time if/when the monies which don't want it > the monies that do.  
This suit doesn't surprise me in the least, and stuff like this will keep coming up.  Eventually I think we'll have the same controversies (i.e. "I don't want to be on the field or sing etc.") return.  

This. Just like in the past when some called for the removal of statues, the majority didn't want the removal. Over time opinions change. I'm already in the indifferent zone about the issue. Keep it or remove it, whatever. UT is anti-tradition anyway especially in relation to A&M. If sticking to traditions is someone's thing, they picked wrong with UT.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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Skipper

Skipper 5969

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13 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

And just  last week, striking student tour guides successfully got the University to remove The Eyes lyrics from a plaque on the welcome center:

https://thedailytexan.com/2021/08/31/texas-tour-guides-end-strike-after-eyes-of-texas-lyrics-removed-from-welcome/

What a bunch of fucking losers.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

A trophy and medal for everyone.

And statues like the loser Confederacy soldiers?  

This next wave of Eyes of Texas pushback was bound to happen once football season resumed.  The commission's report was rather well received by student groups but that was when hardly anybody was in person, on campus.  Now that they're meeting again in person and the games/songs are taking place on a large scale, it'll take a few months to digest the findings/decisions.  I think most will come to terms with it, particularly that the spirit of the song is in no way intended to offend (the backstory may be a different tale).  

But before people insult these young people for caring about this issue...and I disagree with much of their sentiment...remember that they've walked a campus with shrines to one loser after another for years.  Once we acknowledge the 19th c. American South was one of the dumbest fucking groups of people to ever walk the Earth...I think those student groups can move on.   People don't hold grudges so much as they just want us to admit our ancestors were fucking stupid. 

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ztejas

ztejas 42819

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1 hour ago, phdhorn said:

"As Black students, we kind of feel as if it’s not like our voices are heard," he told the Tribune.

Did they miss the massive controversy that took place over this last fall?

Believe me, your voices are being heard. People just decided you were wrong and as a result you didn't get your way.

They have a right to protest it - but let's be a little more honest about what's going on. 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 30851

Posted
Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Did they miss the massive controversy that took place over this last fall?

Believe me, your voices are being heard. People just decided you were wrong and as a result you didn't get your way.

They have a right to protest it - but let's be a little more honest about what's going on. 

An oddball thing.  The students turn over every four years approximately, and frequently more often, so it is entirely possible that some missed the previous goings-on, entirely "innocently."  And, sometimes, students are pretty clueless as to things going on around them, even at the University.

And, having not lived through it, picked up knowledge "through the grapevine," which produced the false and scurrilous narrative that it was an "o'erseer song" or some such nonsense.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Expel students for being typical self-absorbed 19-year olds?  Yeah that makes sense.  
 

We didn't expel the students who murdered one of their fellow Cowboys.  But you want us to boot outta school some kids who are just looking to stir some shit up in a political debate?  

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Skipper

Skipper 5969

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48 minutes ago, Lobo said:

 

But before people insult these young people for caring about this issue...

I insulted the young people that cared about stupid issues when I walked campus 20 years ago as well.   Texas has always been a place where these idealist dorks that aren't really into anything else find each other and find some cause they can all bitch about as their form of a social life.

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utee94

utee94 15722

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3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

An oddball thing.  The students turn over every four years approximately, and frequently more often, so it is entirely possible that some missed the previous goings-on, entirely "innocently."  And, sometimes, students are pretty clueless as to things going on around them, even at the University.

And, having not lived through it, picked up knowledge "through the grapevine," which produced the false and scurrilous narrative that it was an "o'erseer song" or some such nonsense.

This is all true, but the person being quoted is a senior, and also the president of the campus's NAACP chapter, so I'd expect him to be aware of what happened just last year when his own org, among others, were included in the lengthy review of the origins of the song.

 

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Cajun

Cajun 11659

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23 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Expel students for being typical self-absorbed 19-year olds?  Yeah that makes sense.  
 

We didn't expel the students who murdered one of their fellow Cowboys.  But you want us to boot outta school some kids who are just looking to stir some shit up in a political debate?  

Yep.  Live by the cancel, die by the cancel.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 30851

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39 minutes ago, utee94 said:

This is all true, but the person being quoted is a senior, and also the president of the campus's NAACP chapter, so I'd expect him to be aware of what happened just last year when his own org, among others, were included in the lengthy review of the origins of the song.

 

Yeah, obviously I didn't dive into the article.  But this could be kind of a repeating thing every couple of years just because it's a new batch of dipshits.

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Cajun

Cajun 11659

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15 minutes ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

Although it goes agains my principles, I'm starting to think "ends justifies the means here" to put an end to this bullshit. I'm over idiot zoomers and their Grievance-Industrial Geppettos.

Yep.  These sjws only understand the language of cancellation.  Time for them to be served a huge heaping dose of their own cooking.

Chew 'em up and shit 'em out into the sewers where they belong.

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DalTxHornFan

DalTxHornFan 3071

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Posted
1 hour ago, Lobo said:

This next wave of Eyes of Texas pushback was bound to happen once football season resumed.  The commission's report was rather well received by student groups but that was when hardly anybody was in person, on campus.  Now that they're meeting again in person and the games/songs are taking place on a large scale, it'll take a few months to digest the findings/decisions.  I think most will come to terms with it, particularly that the spirit of the song is in no way intended to offend (the backstory may be a different tale).  

But before people insult these young people for caring about this issue...and I disagree with much of their sentiment...remember that they've walked a campus with shrines to one loser after another for years.  Once we acknowledge the 19th c. American South was one of the dumbest fucking groups of people to ever walk the Earth...I think those student groups can move on.   People don't hold grudges so much as they just want us to admit our ancestors were fucking stupid. 

Never underestimate the ability of a low-life slip and fall lawyer, community agitator, and NAACP president, to find some "anonymous students" with grievances so as to get him back into the spotlight.  As I understand it, the LHB took a vote and is very supportive of "The Eyes."  I've also heard that there is not enough interest in the alternative band to even really organize it.

Interesting how they leaked it to Texas Tribune just as football season was beginning.  This is a manufactured and orchestrated media event, and alleged controversy. 

Hook 'em.  All the live long day!  

 

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9769

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Posted
2 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Never underestimate the ability of a low-life slip and fall lawyer, community agitator, and NAACP president, to find some "anonymous students" with grievances so as to get him back into the spotlight.  As I understand it, the LHB took a vote and is very supportive of "The Eyes."  I've also heard that there is not enough interest in the alternative band to even really organize it.

Interesting how they leaked it to Texas Tribune just as football season was beginning.  This is a manufactured and orchestrated media event, and alleged controversy. 

Hook 'em.  All the live long day!  

 

 

5 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Never underestimate the ability of a low-life slip and fall lawyer, community agitator, and NAACP president, to find some "anonymous students" with grievances so as to get him back into the spotlight.  As I understand it, the LHB took a vote and is very supportive of "The Eyes."  I've also heard that there is not enough interest in the alternative band to even really organize it.

Interesting how they leaked it to Texas Tribune just as football season was beginning.  This is a manufactured and orchestrated media event, and alleged controversy. 

Hook 'em.  All the live long day!  

 

Don’t forget professors who’s field of study requires their own justification 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 30851

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1 hour ago, bschoolprof said:

Our athletic department itself has a far more racist history than TEOT. We should therefore end all UT related athletic events, which obviates the need for this site. 

I think we're done here. 

Yeah, the whole institution has a history of racism in flat academics and athletics right up until the 1970s.  Yet EOT has this attenuated connection to racism that's more than a century old and nothing since.

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