Move To Ban The Eyes of Texas

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

12 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Like it or not UT is not considered racially enlightened by any mean by Black people at all. And Black people I know do not fall for this whole idea that Texas is not a Southern state. Shoot the messenger all you want but it doesn't change the fact that we blew the chance to lead the way to integrate the SWC in the '60s, were too slow to do it in a big enough way in the '70s to prevent Switzer and Yeoman and other coaches to erode what should have been our continued dominance of the state in the '70s and '80s, and only somewhat stabilized with Mack in the 90s and the 2000s. Then came the Charlie experiment, which, believe it or not, is not seen as simply a matter of a terrible coach being hired and fired in three years by the Black community. Nor is Austin a shangri-la destination for a young Black athlete -- it's a big city, and so strange to rural East Texas kids. It's extremely White and getting Whiter by any metric -- percentage, real numbers, whatever. 

And then we old redasses dig in about this damn song. I can guarantee y'all that almost none of you have as long a family relationship with the University as i do. it began ten years before this song even existed. And I love the song. i sang it to my children in the crib the way my parents and grandparents sang it to me. And you know what -- that can continue, even if its never played in a football stadium ever again.

What we are doing with this song right now is...we are choosing to be Ole Miss with Ole Man Rebel instead of Alabama. Do you think we win a single Black recruit because of the singing of the Eyes? Now, can you imagine how it could conceivably, theoretically, maybe just possibly be used in negative recruiting against us?

Yes aggy and Sul Ross what the fuck ever. I can't figure that shit out either. But fucking take the Eyes home with you. It has become a goddamn albatross. 

If someone is upset about firing Charlie Strong, then they are just irrational and there is no need to engage them.  And less need to placate them. Strong is an imbecile and the worst coach in our history.  His ceiling is maybe a coordinator.

Austin is not getting fucking whiter.  It is getting browner.  It was 75% non-Hispanic white in 1970.  It is around 45% non-Hispanic white today.

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, Austin is getting less white (maybe not as fast as the rest of the state, but it's happening).  And UT is getting much less white.  Law of unintended consequences of the Top 10% rule.  Meant to try to get more rural students in from underperforming high schools.  Turns out instead we got the best and brightest students of color at UT-Austin, where the cutoff now is really somewhere between Top 6-7% depending on number of applicants in a given year and how many exempted applicants come in for Performing Arts/Fine Arts/et. al.  So many older alums were upset about this for a long while that their legacy admit deal was effectively done, but they got over it.  The rest of us will, too.  

This is just my experience but I see it every single academic year on campus (except for the last year), but each August/September...I see students clinging to people that look like them.  You just see groups of Indian students together, Chinese together, Hispanic together, Black together, different "types of white" together, et. al.  By March, everybody is mingling with everybody because that's what it takes to succeed at UT, and in life.  Every year, every class finally "gets it."  They'll find common ground with this song like they do with everything else because they don't have the petty baggage we all do about shit like this. 

This latest round of shit started after Fenves had the statues removed under the cover of night to avoid a drawn-out theatrical debate about them.  Some pissy alums on one side didn't like that and so they lashed out.  And suddenly you get stuff on campus like the Salem Center (a right-wing on campus think tank) and then somebody combats that from the other side with building renames.  And then other group lashed out against CRT, and the other side lashes out against 'Eyes of Texas' song.  And then there's pushback on the System initiative to have the NFL coaching interview rule where has to be one person of color among the finalists.  So they lash out against that and other side wants to increase the DEI office budget and scope.  And then it's a re-up of Top 10% rule with legacy admits falling more than ever before, and the other wide it's 1st generation admit pushes.  Now the new bone thrown is the Liberty Institute to combat all the women-centric initiatives & centers on campus. This is all just a pissing contest among a few dozen alumni who find different ways to play out their shit in real time using our campus as their playing field.  

 

[XYZ 2,154]

23 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yeah, Austin is getting less white (maybe not as fast as the rest of the state, but it's happening).  And UT is getting much less white.  Law of unintended consequences of the Top 10% rule.  Meant to try to get more rural students in from underperforming high schools.  Turns out instead we got the best and brightest students of color at UT-Austin, where the cutoff now is really somewhere between Top 6-7% depending on number of applicants in a given year and how many exempted applicants come in for Performing Arts/Fine Arts/et. al.  So many older alums were upset about this for a long while that their legacy admit deal was effectively done, but they got over it.  The rest of us will, too.  

This is just my experience but I see it every single academic year on campus (except for the last year), but each August/September...I see students clinging to people that look like them.  You just see groups of Indian students together, Chinese together, Hispanic together, Black together, different "types of white" together, et. al.  By March, everybody is mingling with everybody because that's what it takes to succeed at UT, and in life.  Every year, every class finally "gets it."  They'll find common ground with this song like they do with everything else because they don't have the petty baggage we all do about shit like this. 

This latest round of shit started after Fenves had the statues removed under the cover of night to avoid a drawn-out theatrical debate about them.  Some pissy alums on one side didn't like that and so they lashed out.  And suddenly you get stuff on campus like the Salem Center (a right-wing on campus think tank) and then somebody combats that from the other side with building renames.  And then other group lashed out against CRT, and the other side lashes out against 'Eyes of Texas' song.  And then there's pushback on the System initiative to have the NFL coaching interview rule where has to be one person of color among the finalists.  So they lash out against that and other side wants to increase the DEI office budget and scope.  And then it's a re-up of Top 10% rule with legacy admits falling more than ever before, and the other wide it's 1st generation admit pushes.  Now the new bone thrown is the Liberty Institute to combat all the women-centric initiatives & centers on campus. This is all just a pissing contest among a few dozen alumni who find different ways to play out their shit in real time using our campus as their playing field.  

Wait, you work at UT???

[Guest Lobo]

Nope.  Just volunteer.  You should try it. Very fulfilling. 

[4th_and_18 709]

Yeah, Austin is getting less white (maybe not as fast as the rest of the state, but it's happening).  And UT is getting much less white.  Law of unintended consequences of the Top 10% rule.  Meant to try to get more rural students in from underperforming high schools.  Turns out instead we got the best and brightest students of color at UT-Austin, where the cutoff now is really somewhere between Top 6-7% depending on number of applicants in a given year and how many exempted applicants come in for Performing Arts/Fine Arts/et. al.  So many older alums were upset about this for a long while that their legacy admit deal was effectively done, but they got over it.  The rest of us will, too.  
This is just my experience but I see it every single academic year on campus (except for the last year), but each August/September...I see students clinging to people that look like them.  You just see groups of Indian students together, Chinese together, Hispanic together, Black together, different "types of white" together, et. al.  By March, everybody is mingling with everybody because that's what it takes to succeed at UT, and in life.  Every year, every class finally "gets it."  They'll find common ground with this song like they do with everything else because they don't have the petty baggage we all do about shit like this. 
This latest round of shit started after Fenves had the statues removed under the cover of night to avoid a drawn-out theatrical debate about them.  Some pissy alums on one side didn't like that and so they lashed out.  And suddenly you get stuff on campus like the Salem Center (a right-wing on campus think tank) and then somebody combats that from the other side with building renames.  And then other group lashed out against CRT, and the other side lashes out against 'Eyes of Texas' song.  And then there's pushback on the System initiative to have the NFL coaching interview rule where has to be one person of color among the finalists.  So they lash out against that and other side wants to increase the DEI office budget and scope.  And then it's a re-up of Top 10% rule with legacy admits falling more than ever before, and the other wide it's 1st generation admit pushes.  Now the new bone thrown is the Liberty Institute to combat all the women-centric initiatives & centers on campus. This is all just a pissing contest among a few dozen alumni who find different ways to play out their shit in real time using our campus as their playing field.  
 

And when Salem is too left wing for some…the Liberty Institute.

[Pancho 46,297]

21 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Like it or not UT is not considered racially enlightened by any mean by Black people at all. And Black people I know do not fall for this whole idea that Texas is not a Southern state. Shoot the messenger all you want but it doesn't change the fact that we blew the chance to lead the way to integrate the SWC in the '60s, were too slow to do it in a big enough way in the '70s to prevent Switzer and Yeoman and other coaches to erode what should have been our continued dominance of the state in the '70s and '80s, and only somewhat stabilized with Mack in the 90s and the 2000s. Then came the Charlie experiment, which, believe it or not, is not seen as simply a matter of a terrible coach being hired and fired in three years by the Black community. Nor is Austin a shangri-la destination for a young Black athlete -- it's a big city, and so strange to rural East Texas kids. It's extremely White and getting Whiter by any metric -- percentage, real numbers, whatever. 

And then we old redasses dig in about this damn song. I can guarantee y'all that almost none of you have as long a family relationship with the University as i do. it began ten years before this song even existed. And I love the song. i sang it to my children in the crib the way my parents and grandparents sang it to me. And you know what -- that can continue, even if its never played in a football stadium ever again.

What we are doing with this song right now is...we are choosing to be Ole Miss with Ole Man Rebel instead of Alabama. Do you think we win a single Black recruit because of the singing of the Eyes? Now, can you imagine how it could conceivably, theoretically, maybe just possibly be used in negative recruiting against us?

Yes aggy and Sul Ross what the fuck ever. I can't figure that shit out either. But fucking take the Eyes home with you. It has become a goddamn albatross. 

I wouldn’t assume all Black people think of UT in this way.  I certainly do not, and plenty of others don’t either.  I do think it’s pretty obvious Texas is a Southern state, and it’s not too clear why some don’t want to admit that.  Maybe they just really don’t want to be associated with it?  I dunno. 

Probably CR here, but I’ve asked many people what does “woke” even mean if you say too many people are “woke” and none of them have given me an answer.  

Finally, I’ve given my stance on this subject so you can do a search.  I love The Eyes, and it gives me chills.  I’m pretty confident I can pinpoint what is racist and what isn’t since I’m a Blek, a liberal one at that.  I’ve never once thought of The Eyes as racist.  I honestly still don’t even know what they are considering racist—the tune it itself or the words?  If it’s the words, well just as I learn as a COMM major at UT and what I teach to college students today, words are arbitrary and change meaning over time.  If it’s the tune, well I don’t know what the fuck to tell you.

[Anastasis 23,717]

21 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

And then we old redasses dig in about this damn song.

aggy, imo. 

[Guest Lobo]

17 minutes ago, 4th_and_18 said:

And when Salem is too left wing for some…the Liberty Institute.

yep, and now we're gonna see some pushback from some faculty and mid-level campus leadership that doesn't want to be academically or culturally associated with the SEC.  So they're gonna need some consolation prize which will lead to the other side wanting something else besides the conference move.  And around and around we go. And it's the same 20 or 30 so folks behind all this tit-for-tat shit.  Thankfully we've got some deft leadership right now in Hartzell and regents like Perez and Hicks.  But a lot of the others just love getting sucked into this bullshit to feel they're in the limelight. 

[52-80 19,377]

16 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

If someone is upset about firing Charlie Strong, then they are just irrational and there is no need to engage them.  And less need to placate them. Strong is an imbecile and the worst coach in our history.  His ceiling is maybe a coordinator.

Austin is not getting fucking whiter.  It is getting browner.  It was 75% non-Hispanic white in 1970.  It is around 45% non-Hispanic white today.

Cameon Rising transferred out to Utah because TX fired its white head coach.  Believe it or not, that's how it's seen in the White community.

[South Austin 53,222]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Cameon Rising transferred out to Utah because TX fired its white head coach.  Believe it or not, that's how it's seen in the White community.

Wut? He transferred to Texas long before we fired Herman.

[52-80 19,377]

37 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Wut? He transferred to Texas long before we fired Herman.

Believe it or not, that's how it's seen in the White community.

[Wulaw Horn 19,593]

10 hours ago, Pancho said:

I wouldn’t assume all Black people think of UT in this way.  I certainly do not, and plenty of others don’t either.  I do think it’s pretty obvious Texas is a Southern state, and it’s not too clear why some don’t want to admit that.  Maybe they just really don’t want to be associated with it?  I dunno. 

Probably CR here, but I’ve asked many people what does “woke” even mean if you say too many people are “woke” and none of them have given me an answer.  

Finally, I’ve given my stance on this subject so you can do a search.  I love The Eyes, and it gives me chills.  I’m pretty confident I can pinpoint what is racist and what isn’t since I’m a Blek, a liberal one at that.  I’ve never once thought of The Eyes as racist.  I honestly still don’t even know what they are considering racist—the tune it itself or the words?  If it’s the words, well just as I learn as a COMM major at UT and what I teach to college students today, words are arbitrary and change meaning over time.  If it’s the tune, well I don’t know what the fuck to tell you.

Driving through East Texas last night the cop does a whip around on a back road and I’m like- oh shit they are coming for me. He comes screaming around past me and gets right up on the car in front of us and tailgates the shit out of him (2 lane road so it’s not like he needed the guy to make way so he could get by) for 3 or 5 miles.  Then, he hits the lights and pulls him over. 

Me- you see anything wrong that guy did?

Co pilot- driving a shitty old Mercury while black at midnight in East texas. 
Me- yeah- I was afraid that might be it. 

Yeah- parts of this state are backwards. I wouldn’t order a chicken fried steak in San Antonio though. This state isn’t southern. It’s southern, old west, urban, southwestern and Mexican all rolled into one. Same way Florida south of a certain point isn’t southern or Louisiana south of I-10 isn’t southern imo. 
Well said though. 

[South Austin 53,222]

8 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Believe it or not, that's how it's seen in the White community.

That’s how it’s seen in the Stupid Community. 

[52-80 19,377]

1 minute ago, South Austin said:

That’s how it’s seen in the Stupid Community. 

youre obviously NotACoordinator

[Guest Lobo]

Wait, you guys are getting a community?  /we'rethemillers

[huge 3,831]

3 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Believe it or not, that's how it's seen in the White community.

I don't understand what you are saying.  Elaborate please.

 

Signed,

 

White community guy

[NeverMarryAStripper 22,294]

My hood is mostly Asians so I don't think I'm part of the White Community.

[52-80 19,377]

Quote

Then came the Charlie experiment, which, believe it or not, is not seen as simply a matter of a terrible coach being hired and fired in three years by the Black community. 

Just riffin , bro

[Guest Lobo]

31 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

My hood is mostly Asians so I don't think I'm part of the White Community.

Forget it Nemas, it’s Chinatown 

[Dennis Taylor 19,345]

On 9/8/2021 at 3:40 PM, Helobious said:

I’d argue it’s best for the students to decide since they’re the ones actually currently there & paying tuition. Maybe if your yearly donations amount to more than a years tuition you have more of a claim. But the fact that someone who went there for 4 years 30 years ago gets to forever claim that they know what’s best for the university seems odd to me. At that point you have years of work in your field to affirm your skills, the university you attended & its reputation are not as relevant for you as they are to a recent grad or current student.

And as usual you'd be wrong 

[BabaYaga 15,623]

Its Friday and this bitch ass thread need bewbs.....

[deadshank 24,654]

36 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Its Friday and this bitch ass thread need bewbs.....

Those guns are printing!!

[Willfully Horn 8,259]

I talked with my daughter this weekend. Turns out, mentioning the report made her irritated. (My summation of her words:) “Pointing to a report to help explain why a song doesn’t have racist roots or connotations is lame. Who wants to do that? I’m paying attention to how others react, and the EoT is not unifying the student body.”

She did not speak to @Johnny Sack specific question. 

 

As I boasted, because it makes me so proud, she’s busting her ass studying, and not out protesting. Back in high school, though, she was quite vocal about changing the school song. And it was changed. From “Dixie” to “Oh, Wisconsin(!)”

 

 

[Surly Bevo 25,732]

4 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

I talked with my daughter this weekend. Turns out, mentioning the report made her irritated. (My summation of her words:) “Pointing to a report to help explain why a song doesn’t have racist roots or connotations is lame. Who wants to do that? I’m paying attention to how others react, and the EoT is not unifying the student body.”

Sounds like she's gonna make a great politician...

[Willfully Horn 8,259]

2 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Sounds like she's gonna make a great politician...

You know many politicians with degrees in microbiology and chemistry?

[ChickenSandwich 9,957]

37 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

I talked with my daughter this weekend. Turns out, mentioning the report made her irritated. (My summation of her words:) “Pointing to a report to help explain why a song doesn’t have racist roots or connotations is lame. Who wants to do that? I’m paying attention to how others react, and the EoT is not unifying the student body.”

She did not speak to @Johnny Sack specific question. 

 

As I boasted, because it makes me so proud, she’s busting her ass studying, and not out protesting. Back in high school, though, she was quite vocal about changing the school song. And it was changed. From “Dixie” to “Oh, Wisconsin(!)”

 

 

So facts be dammed?  Basically spells out what most have alluded to. It’s not about being heard, it’s about getting their way. 

[Willfully Horn 8,259]

2 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

So facts be dammed?  Basically spells out what most have alluded to. It’s not about being heard, it’s about getting their way. 

It’s about a school song that doesn’t divide. Or require explanation and a report.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Willfully Horn
More

[ChickenSandwich 9,957]

The current students are a small part of the community of alumni. Their opinion doesn’t hold more weight than anyone else’s. It’s not “theirs” anymore than mine or yours. 
 

Openly denying facts, or refusing to even consider them only seeks to divide the community. They just want that W. No room for diversity of thought or honest discussion. Just mob mentality and follow the pack or get run over. (Like the other poster’s son commented )

Edited September 13, 2021 by ChickenSandwich

[Willfully Horn 8,259]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

The current students are a small part of the community of alumni. Their opinion doesn’t hold more weight than anyone else’s. It’s not “theirs” anymore than mine or yours. 

Fair enough. I’ve posted her opinion. I did not imply her opinion is the last word on the subject.

And, I posted her opinion in response to talk that the only students holding that position were out protesting for the drama.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Willfully Horn
More

[utee94 16,080]

5 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

It’s about a school song that doesn’t divide. Or require explanation and a report.

It only divides because some people either arrogantly, or stupidly, ignore that there is no reason for it to divide.  

No offense intended, but your daughter is part of the problem.  Willfully ignoring facts and relying on emotion instead, is the exact opposite of  the academic mission of The University of Texas. It's lazy and arrogant.

 

[Willfully Horn 8,259]

1 minute ago, utee94 said:

It only divides because some people either arrogantly, or stupidly, ignore that there is no reason for it to divide.  

No offense intended, but your daughter is part of the problem.  Willfully ignoring facts and relying on emotion instead, is the exact opposite of  the academic mission of The University of Texas. It's lazy and arrogant.

 

As I’ve stated, she’s busted her ass studying a different subject. Next thing you know, you’ll be advocating Liberal Arts for everyone.

[NeverMarryAStripper 22,294]

That's the main problem with our country's voters today.  Even if they can't, or won't, become knowledgeable on an issue they will still be sure to vocalize their opinion on it and be sure that their opinion is the final say on the matter 

[utee94 16,080]

19 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

As I’ve stated, she’s busted her ass studying a different subject. Next thing you know, you’ll be advocating Liberal Arts for everyone.

I have no idea what this means.  I have an undergraduate degree from UT in electrical engineering.  I have a master's degree from UT in business.  I, too, have "busted my ass" studying at UT, for whatever that's worth in this discussion.

Regardless of discipline of study, I can still form an educated opinion based on facts and research.  Anyone that attends an acclaimed university like UT, should have the academic thirst to illuminate the darkness of emotional decisions based on lies or half-truths or outside agendas, using the bright light of research and facts.  It's ALL of our jobs, to support that kind of academic rigor, rather than relying on reactionary, emotional responses to the world around us.

Edited September 13, 2021 by utee94

[Willfully Horn 8,259]

1 minute ago, utee94 said:

I have no idea what this means.  I have an undergraduate degree from UT in electrical engineering.  I have a master's degree from UT in business.  I, too, have busted my ass.

I can still form an educated opinion based on facts and research.  Anyone that attends an acclaimed university like UT, should have the academic thirst to illuminate the darkness of emotional decisions based on lies or half-truths or outside agendas, using the bright light of research and facts.  It's ALL of our jobs, to support that kind of academic rigor, rather than relying on reactionary, emotional responses to the world around us.

Sure thing. I’ll mention that to her. 

[utee94 16,080]

4 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Sure thing. I’ll mention that to her. 

Yeah you do that. 🙄

[Foosters 18,277]

"No offense . . . but your daughter is a stupid piece of shit."

"What, did I touch a nerve or something?"

[utee94 16,080]

Just now, Foosters said:

"No offense . . . but your daughter is a stupid piece of shit."

"What, did I touch a nerve or something?"

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.  

It's pretty much the surly motto, right?

[Guest Lobo]

13 minutes ago, utee94 said:

I have no idea what this means.  I have an undergraduate degree from UT in electrical engineering.  I have a master's degree from UT in business.  I, too, have "busted my ass" studying at UT, for whatever that's worth in this discussion.

Regardless of discipline of study, I can still form an educated opinion based on facts and research.  Anyone that attends an acclaimed university like UT, should have the academic thirst to illuminate the darkness of emotional decisions based on lies or half-truths or outside agendas, using the bright light of research and facts.  It's ALL of our jobs, to support that kind of academic rigor, rather than relying on reactionary, emotional responses to the world around us.

Dude, 10% of our alumni base believes in Qanon and horse paste.  People make decisions based on emotions, film at 11.  

[Willfully Horn 8,259]

4 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Yeah you do that. 🙄

I will. We will both shake our heads at folks who say the fact that the song was performed at a minstrel show leads to the ‘fact’ that no one ought be offended, or feel excluded. While ignoring that a discussion of fact is not the usual preamble to a school song.

[utee94 16,080]

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

Dude, 10% of our alumni base believes in Qanon and horse paste.  People make decisions based on emotions, film at 11.  

For sure.  And does surly let the horse-paste-eaters slide, or does surly call them out for it?

 

[Guest Lobo]

Well, that's just it, IMHO.  The Eyes of Texas has an emotional element to it, a substantial one.  It has history, dear memories and events attached to it, there are friends who have feelings on it that may impact how one feels about the song, plus it's music---music at its core lives in a different part of our brains.  It's a nuanced debate because it's a song.  Songs mean different things to different people at different times in their lives.  I'm for keeping it, but I'm willing to listen to people who want it gone.  And make no mistake, as we've discussed before on this thread...this thing is really just a part of a long pissing match between a couple dozen alumni on differing sides of a handful of issues.   

Ivermectin is subjectively, objectively, empirically, and clinically about stupidity.  All facts point to people acting out of stubborn emotion and ignoring all facts and reason.  Those people can shit themselves to death if it means it'll free up a hospital bed for my 93 year old uncle who just contracted Covid-19 out in "Fuck the Vaccine, this is horse country!" Hays County.  

[immamac 44,339]

This thread is fucking stupid and you are stupid for posting in it. 

[Captainant 28,530]

14 minutes ago, immamac said:

This thread is fucking stupid and you are stupid for posting in it. 

New surly motto?

[Cajun 11,775]

On 9/10/2021 at 7:09 AM, Wulaw Horn said:

Driving through East Texas last night the cop does a whip around on a back road and I’m like- oh shit they are coming for me. He comes screaming around past me and gets right up on the car in front of us and tailgates the shit out of him (2 lane road so it’s not like he needed the guy to make way so he could get by) for 3 or 5 miles.  Then, he hits the lights and pulls him over. 

Me- you see anything wrong that guy did?

Co pilot- driving a shitty old Mercury while black at midnight in East texas. 
Me- yeah- I was afraid that might be it. 

Yeah- parts of this state are backwards. I wouldn’t order a chicken fried steak in San Antonio though. This state isn’t southern. It’s southern, old west, urban, southwestern and Mexican all rolled into one. Same way Florida south of a certain point isn’t southern or Louisiana south of I-10 isn’t southern imo. 
Well said though. 

No chicken fried steak in SA, eh?

Solid plan.  You really seem to be “in the know”.

 

 

[Wulaw Horn 19,593]

I didn’t say it didn’t exist. I’m just eating Mexican food if I’m in San Antonio. But that does look good. But I’m still eating Mexican food. Or maybe steak. 

[wild_turkey 3,296]

It’s about a school song that doesn’t divide. Or require explanation and a report.

With all due respect to your daughter who you are rightfully proud of, there are many elements to this debate that go beyond simply the feelings of the current student body, hence the need for a multicultural and multidisciplinary committee to analyze the situation and publish a formal report.

If you discredit the outcome of the report on the basis of your daughter’s feelings and the feelings of her friends, then you are discrediting the integrity and validity of the committee, and by extension, The University of Texas who chose them. In which case, what was the point of having the committee? What is the point of ever attempting to solve a complex social problem in this very reasonable manner?

[TwiceHorn 32,076]

26 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

With all due respect to your daughter who you are rightfully proud of, there are many elements to this debate that go beyond simply the feelings of the current student body, hence the need for a multicultural and multidisciplinary committee to analyze the situation and publish a formal report.

If you discredit the outcome of the report on the basis of your daughter’s feelings and the feelings of her friends, then you are discrediting the integrity and validity of the committee, and by extension, The University of Texas who chose them. In which case, what was the point of having the committee? What is the point of ever attempting to solve a complex social problem in this very reasonable manner?

And, who or what makes the song "divisive."  The song itself and, as used over the last century is quite the opposite.

So is it people who demand its "cancelation" because "it's racist" who make it divisive, or is it the ones who want to keep it based on a reasoned analysis of what it is and where it came from?

ETA:  I'm not trying to pick at your daughter.  At first blush, the notion that the song has become "divisive" seems like maybe a decent reason to boot it.  But I still think you have to look at why it is allegedly divisive, and to whom.

Edited September 13, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Hank Scorpio 17,924]

Your honors, what if it’s the minorities that are the real racists? 
 

/Texas Supreme Court Dismisses Eyes of Texas Lawsuit

Edited September 13, 2021 by Hank Scorpio

[mchookem 16,765]

for those that argue the song is simply too divisive...what song isn't going to be at this point?

alums greatly out-number current students. if the vast majority of alumni want to keep EoT because it somehow wasn't racist when they were in college...choosing a new song will just make the division even greater it seems to me. 

i suppose the question is which is worse - 250,000 angry and resentful alums or 5,000 angry current students? (just spitballing numbers as an example, i have no idea the actuals) 

i don't even know who can answer that question...but since everything comes down to money, i can take a guess...

 

[TwiceHorn 32,076]

3 minutes ago, mchookem said:

for those that argue the song is simply too divisive...what song isn't going to be at this point?

alums greatly out-number current students. if the vast majority of alumni want to keep EoT because it somehow wasn't racist when they were in college...choosing a new song will just make the division even greater it seems to me. 

i suppose the question is which is worse - 250,000 angry and resentful alums or 5,000 angry current students? (just spitballing numbers as an example, i have no idea the actuals) 

i don't even know who can answer that question...but since everything comes down to money, i can take a guess...

 

For reference, 482,000+ alumni, not sure about living.  40,000+ undergraduates. https://www.utexas.edu/about/facts-and-figures

But good point, it's all divisive from here on in.  I do kind of quibble with "somehow wasn't racist."  It isn't racist.  It has somehow become racist because of some tiny factoids in the story of its authorship.