Move To Ban The Eyes of Texas

[wild_turkey 3086]

We live in a world where a medical face mask is divisive. If we get rid of everything that a portion of the population objects to, we wouldn’t have much left.

[ChickenSandwich 9769]

1 hour ago, Hank Scorpio said:

Your honors, what if it’s the minorities that are the real racists? 
 

/Texas Supreme Court Dismisses Eyes of Texas Lawsuit

We can shut down constructive difficult conversations by saying “racism” in a spooky ghost voice at anyone who doesn’t shut and obey. 
 

[Surly Bevo 24608]

We can shut down constructive difficult conversations by saying “racism” in a spooky ghost voice at anyone who doesn’t shut and obey. 
 

Constructive difficult conversations are shut down by a lack of critical thinking skills and a pandering to emotionalism. Maybe what you are describing is a part of that but it’s a whole bigger ball of shit of a problem in our society than this one topic and the guilt cuts far, wide and deep.

[Willfully Horn 7892]

7 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

It has somehow become racist because of some tiny factoids in the story of its authorship.

If my argument has suggested the EoT is racist, then I apologize for my failure to communicate. I am far from believing arguments in support of EoT are based on racist belief, rather I believe those arguments to be based on personal knowledge rejecting any role for racism in love for the song.

I have posted in support of my daughter’s view, acknowledging that her’s is but one data point, notable to this conversation because she was not among those publicly protesting.

I suggest that those who deride other opinions read the report again, as it in no way supports such scorn.

 

[ChickenSandwich 9769]

3 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

If my argument has suggested the EoT is racist, then I apologize for my failure to communicate. I am far from believing arguments in support of EoT are based on racist belief, rather I believe those arguments to be based on personal knowledge rejecting any role for racism in love for the song.

I have posted in support of my daughter’s view, acknowledging that her’s is but one data point, notable to this conversation because she was not among those publicly protesting.

I suggest that those who deride other opinions read the report again, as it in no way supports such scorn.

 

That’s fair, and good advice. Maybe pass that on….

[TwiceHorn 30851]

3 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

If my argument has suggested the EoT is racist, then I apologize for my failure to communicate. I am far from believing arguments in support of EoT are based on racist belief, rather I believe those arguments to be based on personal knowledge rejecting any role for racism in love for the song.

I have posted in support of my daughter’s view, acknowledging that her’s is but one data point, notable to this conversation because she was not among those publicly protesting.

I suggest that those who deride other opinions read the report again, as it in no way supports such scorn.

 

Nooo.  Wasn't picking at you or your daughter.  The screed was "provoked" by mchookem's post.

I'm just thinking aloud through this.  I personally rather obviously favor keeping EOT cuz I'm an old whitey.

But I am trying to sort of analyze this situation in a way that isn't just "fuck your feelings."  Because there is a tendency toward that on #bothsides.

Edited September 14, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

10 hours ago, Surly Bevo said:

Constructive difficult conversations are shut down by a lack of critical thinking skills and a pandering to emotionalism. Maybe what you are describing is a part of that but it’s a whole bigger ball of shit of a problem in our society than this one topic and the guilt cuts far, wide and deep.

100%. At some point the adults really need to step back in charge or we're just going to continue to drive off the cliff. As noted earlier, most of these kids have never experienced actually racism and would not know it if it hit them on the head (insert predictable spooky ghost voice calls of racism from the usual suspects), and these kinds of histrionics actually dull claims of actual racism. This is basically our Juicy Smalls moment and we have to decide if we're going to be rational or go along with the performance. As daddy said - only one way to stop a bully is to punch it in the mouth.

[bschoolprof 6221]

Hartzel isn’t going to give in on this issue. But one his successors almost surely will.

[Captainant 26927]

42 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Hartzel isn’t going to give in on this issue. But one his successors almost surely will.

You're telling me the UT prez that's building a dan patrick-funded """liberty institue""" think tank into UT may not give a shit what the student body wants? yadontsay.jpeg

[BabaYaga 15184]

2 hours ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

This is basically our Juicy Smalls moment and we have to decide if we're going to be rational or go along with the performance. As daddy said - only one way to stop a bully is to punch it in the mouth.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 hours ago, Captainant said:

You're telling me the UT prez that's building a dan patrick-funded """liberty institue""" think tank into UT may not give a shit what the student body wants? yadontsay.jpeg

Some intellectual and viewpoint diversity is very frightening.  UT should be lockstep in thought.

[Captainant 26927]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Some intellectual and viewpoint diversity is very frightening.  UT should be lockstep in thought.

I wasn't aware that there was a lack of intellectual diversity at UT. I more find it concerning that the university itself is cosigning and sponsoring a particular viewpoint and political doctrine, rather than teaching it's students how to think critically for themselves. 

[TwiceHorn 30851]

9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I wasn't aware that there was a lack of intellectual diversity at UT. I more find it concerning that the university itself is cosigning and sponsoring a particular viewpoint and political doctrine, rather than teaching it's students how to think critically for themselves. 

Well.  I suppose Hartzell, or any President, would have a hard time turning down money for a new "program."  And, one could argue that the LBJ School offers a pretty hefty counterbalance to any right-wingy or conservative think tank.

And, of course, if Hartzell or other powers-that-be refused to establish this Liberty Institute or whatever it is, then they would be just as open to criticism about particular viewpoint and political doctrine as they would be by accepting it.

That said, as a conservative who can find hardly anything redeeming in today's "conservatives," and considering the special morons behind the Liberty Institute, I am fairly disgusted.

[landman 558]

21 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

I talked with my daughter this weekend. Turns out, mentioning the report made her irritated. (My summation of her words:) “Pointing to a report to help explain why a song doesn’t have racist roots or connotations is lame. Who wants to do that? I’m paying attention to how others react, and the EoT is not unifying the student body.”

She did not speak to @Johnny Sack specific question. 

 

As I boasted, because it makes me so proud, she’s busting her ass studying, and not out protesting. Back in high school, though, she was quite vocal about changing the school song. And it was changed. From “Dixie” to “Oh, Wisconsin(!)”

 

 

The vast majority of students have no problem with it.  It's a small faction trying to get their way just because.  They don't care about the actual history, the report, etc.  They are saying it's racist and so it must stop, regardless of actual facts.

[DanRydell 799]

19 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

And, one could argue that the LBJ School offers a pretty hefty counterbalance to any right-wingy or conservative think tank.

Not in anything resembling good faith they couldn't

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

21 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

As I boasted, because it makes me so proud, she’s busting her ass studying, and not out protesting. Back in high school, though, she was quite vocal about changing the school song. And it was changed. From “Dixie” to “Oh, Wisconsin(!)”

 

 

Slight quibble. It's "On, Wisconsin." I still know the words. We taught our children the chicken dance, however, because we think that is one of their better game songs and much fun to perform in the stands, not including "Jump Around".

Good on your daughter for hitting the books and the lab.

 

[TwiceHorn 30851]

1 minute ago, DanRydell said:

Not in anything resembling good faith they couldn't

Not sure why you say that.  While it isn't instituted as a liberal think tank, it is de facto one much as is the School of Law.

[DanRydell 799]

Not sure why you say that.  While it isn't instituted as a liberal think tank, it is de facto one much as is the School of Law.

Because a school having professors who on net tend to favor a particular political worldview is night and day from a school whose dedicated mission is to promote a particular political worldview.

[Cajun 11659]

Tend?

[Willfully Horn 7892]

4 hours ago, landman said:

The vast majority of students have no problem with it.  It's a small faction trying to get their way just because.  They don't care about the actual history, the report, etc.  They are saying it's racist and so it must stop, regardless of actual facts.

None of your description fits my kid. And she is for changing songs. You might read the report. It has a lot to say to your point of view:

[ChickenSandwich 9769]

The part about ignoring history and the report seem on the nose. 
 

You’ve asked multiple posters to re read the report. Have you asked her the same?

Passionate opinions + refusal to hear arguments that challenge said opinion is a dangerous combination. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by ChickenSandwich

[utee94 15722]

22 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

None of your description fits my kid. And she is for changing songs. You might read the report. It has a lot to say to your point of view:

We've all read the report.  Your daughter is the one refusing to do so.  Tell HER this, not us.

 

[Willfully Horn 7892]

28 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

The part about ignoring history and the report seem on the nose. 
 

You’ve asked multiple posters to re read the report. Have you asked her the same?

Passionate opinions + refusal to hear arguments that challenge said opinion is a dangerous combination. 

Yes.

The report said the song wasn’t overtly racist. It also said dismissing the context of its debut is not in the best interests of UT. I was reacting to just such a dismissal.

[GringoSalado 1639]

38 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

The part about ignoring history and the report seem on the nose. 
 

You’ve asked multiple posters to re read the report. Have you asked her the same?

Passionate opinions + refusal to hear arguments that challenge said opinion is a dangerous combination. 

Yes dummy, reading reports is like so lame, conversation over, eot is racis.

[Willfully Horn 7892]

7 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Some intellectual and viewpoint diversity is very frightening.  UT should be lockstep in thought.

I was unfamiliar with your sense of sarcasm.

[TwiceHorn 30851]

6 hours ago, DanRydell said:

Because a school having professors who on net tend to favor a particular political worldview is night and day from a school whose dedicated mission is to promote a particular political worldview.

Well, from my view, which I think is fairly common, the partisan think tanks are viewed as partisan and have less credibility than actual academic institutions like the LBJ School.  Although they may have more credibility than partisan politicians of their ilk.  I think many of us kind of eye-roll a bit when we see something from Brookings, or Heritage, or Cato, but we'll give it a look because it's usually better researched and reasoned than most of the claptrap out there.

Also, it's unclear exactly what the "Liberty Institute" will be.  Assuming it's a think tank like the Hoover Institution, I think its role in actual education, particularly of undergraduates, would be extremely limited.  I think such institutes attract "visiting scholars" who may or may not teach a graduate or undergraduate course under the auspices of the College of Liberal Arts or the LBJ School, but it most likely wouldn't have any sort of full-time teaching faculty.

So, from my perspective, you have the University of Texas that is pumping both mostly liberal/centrist scholarship from the LBJ School, and elsewhere, and then the Liberty Institute pumping whatever it pumps with less credibility, and very little responsibility for actual education.  Which is why I said the LBJ School would be a hefty counterweight.

Stanford has the Hoover Institution and no public affairs school, as such, so no counterweight, but doesn't suffer the reputation of being a high-dollar Liberty University or Hillsdale College.

Edited September 15, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Nice Guy Eddie 13318]

I for one, would hate it if the EOT was not played at the end of games. It’s the perfect time to get the hell out of the stadium before 90% of the crowd. End the song, and I’m stuck waiting with the rest of you.

when this topic has come up IRL, I mainly see non-Texas grads, fans or otherwise, take the greatest offense if the EOT was discontinued. Obviously I realize there are Texas grads that feel strongly to keep it but I think majority dont care one way or the other.

[Guest Lobo]

I'm genuinely curious what the Rice MOB is gonna do this weekend?  Will they take on our song or go for less controversial low-hanging fruit like SEC move, upcoming primary for governor between two Longhorns, or?  I dunno, what else are we in the news for as of late? 

[Wally Pryor 5214]

It needs 2 halftime shows to tackle the ample material that's out there. 

[blacklab 11826]

They aren't coming because of covid.

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

I'm genuinely curious what the Rice MOB is gonna do this weekend?  Will they take on our song or go for less controversial low-hanging fruit like SEC move, upcoming primary for governor between two Longhorns, or?  I dunno, what else are we in the news for as of late? 

Getting Deliveranced by pig unfortuantley.

[babysdaddy 2708]

56 minutes ago, blacklab said:

They aren't coming because of covid.

[Guest Lobo]

Wait, they’re not coming because of feline aids?

Edited September 17, 2021 by Lobo

[futureman 22353]

14 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It’s the perfect time to get the hell out of the stadium before 90% of the crowd.

yeah if I had to guess I’d say 90% of texas fans stay for the eyes. 

[immortal13 4059]

On 9/14/2021 at 8:25 AM, Captainant said:

You're telling me the UT prez that's building a dan patrick-funded """liberty institue""" think tank into UT may not give a shit what the student body wants? yadontsay.jpeg

Dude take your cloak and your dumb ass where you belong

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

This might all blow over in a few years. My kids are eight years apart. My son came out of his mama calling everything racist...he had a meltdown once after a little league game because Jack in the Box sold an "Asian salad,'' which he thought, at the time, so very waicis. He's a 25-year-old army vet now and thinks his old self is hilarious. His sister has always rolled her eyes at his overwoke antics....So i dunno.

[Harrison Bergeron 1798]

39 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

This might all blow over in a few years. My kids are eight years apart. My son came out of his mama calling everything racist...he had a meltdown once after a little league game because Jack in the Box sold an "Asian salad,'' which he thought, at the time, so very waicis. He's a 25-year-old army vet now and thinks his old self is hilarious. His sister has always rolled her eyes at his overwoke antics....So i dunno.

Any time my son doesn't get what he want's he either says "you're racist" or "because I'm black." I like that the kids are making fun of the race-hysterical betas.

[Willfully Horn 7892]

1 hour ago, Harrison Bergeron said:

Any time my son doesn't get what he want's he either says "you're racist" or "because I'm black." I like that the kids are making fun of the race-hysterical betas.

So, you enjoy that your kid is the butt of jokes from his schoolmates? You seem… odd.

It occurs to me you have taught him such retorts. Which is more odd.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Willfully Horn
More

[KYHorn 16728]

On 9/14/2021 at 9:25 AM, Captainant said:

You're telling me the UT prez that's building a dan patrick-funded """liberty institue""" think tank into UT may not give a shit what the student body wants? yadontsay.jpeg

The whole Tacodeli subplot really came out of nowhere. The fact that it had to be included in the disclosure was even better

[Guest Lobo]

Marching band played "Eyes of Texas" under the Tower today to celebrate Hartzell's official "inauguration" (was gonna happen last year but there was a flu going around).  Anyway, everybody of all colors stood and sang it.  It was nice to see considering some of the people in the crowd were the ones stirring the pot to get it banned.  

And then back in the South Mall, there were a few dozen protestors.  I thought it was about the song, nope...pretty much people are moving on from it as an issue.  They were there protesting Gov. Abbott (since most of his Regents were in attendance).  No CR...but you could tell it was an "astro-turf" campaign, a few students but mostly folks around my age (maybe slightly younger).  And all the protest signs were the same size poster-board with the same size/colors of marker going the copy.  

Anyway, seeing people of political persuasions today having no issue at all with the song being performed literally a few feet in front of them...I think this is a done issue.  If some players don't want to participate, as long as they are being respectful to those around them in their passive stance...who gives a shit?  This is a fucking done deal as far as almost everyone is concerned.  These guys put their health and lives on the line for our program, if they want to take a knee or not move their lips to a corny song, so be it.  The real fights are yet to come. 

[BRLA 106]

16 hours ago, Lobo said:

Marching band played "Eyes of Texas" under the Tower today to celebrate Hartzell's official "inauguration" (was gonna happen last year but there was a flu going around).  Anyway, everybody of all colors stood and sang it.  It was nice to see considering some of the people in the crowd were the ones stirring the pot to get it banned.  

And then back in the South Mall, there were a few dozen protestors.  I thought it was about the song, nope...pretty much people are moving on from it as an issue.  They were there protesting Gov. Abbott (since most of his Regents were in attendance).  No CR...but you could tell it was an "astro-turf" campaign, a few students but mostly folks around my age (maybe slightly younger).  And all the protest signs were the same size poster-board with the same size/colors of marker going the copy.  

Anyway, seeing people of political persuasions today having no issue at all with the song being performed literally a few feet in front of them...I think this is a done issue.  If some players don't want to participate, as long as they are being respectful to those around them in their passive stance...who gives a shit?  This is a fucking done deal as far as almost everyone is concerned.  These guys put their health and lives on the line for our program, if they want to take a knee or not move their lips to a corny song, so be it.  The real fights are yet to come. 

Hey @Lobo  Thanks for the info.  During Hartzell's speech yesterday he referenced the What Starts Here Campaign slated to launch spring 2022.  Any inside scoop as to the fundraising goal?  Assuming we are in the quiet period right now - any info on how much has been raised to date?

[Guest Lobo]

A few months before Covid-19 started (I wanna say OCtober/November of 2019...not sure), about two years ago, they had a deal at the Zlotnik Ballroom to say we had been in a double-secret quiet phase for a year already.  So that's three total years in quiet phase as of now.  about 18 months ago, I read $1bn raised.  I'm sure it slowed a bit during Covid-19, not that a $50mm gift is gonna care about pandemic, but more about travel and logistics and donor engagement.  They touched on it yesterday at Dev Board with some ambiguity because of in-kind donation valuations, but I think the running total is about $1.5-$1.6bn as of now. 

It's cliche, but they really want to downplay the overall target amount.  The individual CSU goals will be hyped up more than last time.  But it does seem like Hartzell is bound and determined to go for more impact/partnership this time around.  There'll be a significant goal (I would think ~7-8bn on the low end, $10bn on the high end.), but it'll really be about partnerships with entities like Army Futures Command, Big Pharma, Applied Materials, incubators, VC funds, et. al.  JV's that be counted as in-kinds to the tune of $25-$100mm at a pop.  Always creative accounting with these things but Hartzell has been talking about exploiting our time and place in the country and what's happening in Texas and Austin for a decade while other campus leaders were kinda spinning their wheels about it.  He's already executing on it.  It's only gonna get better.  There's a huge fucking bombshell coming out for the School of Nursing coming out later this academic year.  I think there's a few posters on here who have children studying there right now...stay tuned.  

Anyway, I'm happy for Jay and happy he's at the helm.  He started out this time last year with Covid-19, the Eyes of Texas controversy, and a bunch of deans leaving their posts.  But things are back on track and humming along nicely.  Campaign will publicly start March (I think during SXSW actually for publicity purposes).  And will likely be said to conclude at the literal end of the decade.  Which would be right at 8 full years.  CDC let loose that there's not much big planned on the athletics front in terms of the capital campaign because everything will be pretty much done by this summer (obviously some gifts for Moody are counted into the silent phase), but a large refresh to Disch-Falk is baked in for later this decade.  Didn't get into specifics obviously.  All I know is we set the campaign back a bit yesterday by drinking everything we could find in the SEZ.  

[4th_and_18 687]

Marching band played "Eyes of Texas" under the Tower today to celebrate Hartzell's official "inauguration" (was gonna happen last year but there was a flu going around).  Anyway, everybody of all colors stood and sang it.  It was nice to see considering some of the people in the crowd were the ones stirring the pot to get it banned.  
And then back in the South Mall, there were a few dozen protestors.  I thought it was about the song, nope...pretty much people are moving on from it as an issue.  They were there protesting Gov. Abbott (since most of his Regents were in attendance).  No CR...but you could tell it was an "astro-turf" campaign, a few students but mostly folks around my age (maybe slightly younger).  And all the protest signs were the same size poster-board with the same size/colors of marker going the copy.  
Anyway, seeing people of political persuasions today having no issue at all with the song being performed literally a few feet in front of them...I think this is a done issue.  If some players don't want to participate, as long as they are being respectful to those around them in their passive stance...who gives a shit?  This is a fucking done deal as far as almost everyone is concerned.  These guys put their health and lives on the line for our program, if they want to take a knee or not move their lips to a corny song, so be it.  The real fights are yet to come. 

We’re they protesting Liberty?

[Guest Lobo]

That was part of it, too.  It seemed to be a conflation of Covid-19 policies on higher ed campuses at Abbott's order, Liberty Institute (a distant second), and a handful of tertiary causes.  The head of THECB and all the Regents and Chancellor were there plus a handful of TV cameras, so they figured it was a somewhat high profile opportunity.  Police had sanctioned off a set protest area where the plaza meets the South Mall.  Everybody was respectful, nobody gave a shit about the eyes of Texas.  The UT Mariachi Band even went over and played a few songs for them as a gesture, plus students were all over that area digging on the free grub from badass food trucks like ChiLantro, Black's BBQ, P. Terry's, Easy Tiger, et. al.  Everybody was cool.  I asked a few questions of some folks and they had valid points on the abortion/vaccine issues.  But it did feel a little "astro-turfed" as they say.  

I guess my main point was that the Song controversy seems to me 99% done with, just a handful of folks still trying to stir shit and even their surrogates were there yesterday giving up on making trouble.  We all joined in celebration of the next chapter of UT, broke bread with students, and then got stinking drunk in the SEZ and pretty much everybody there made fun of Don Huffhines despite some of his relatives being beloved on the 40.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

On 9/24/2021 at 2:51 PM, Lobo said:

Marching band played "Eyes of Texas" under the Tower today to celebrate Hartzell's official "inauguration" (was gonna happen last year but there was a flu going around).  Anyway, everybody of all colors stood and sang it.  It was nice to see considering some of the people in the crowd were the ones stirring the pot to get it banned.  

And then back in the South Mall, there were a few dozen protestors.  I thought it was about the song, nope...pretty much people are moving on from it as an issue.  They were there protesting Gov. Abbott (since most of his Regents were in attendance).  No CR...but you could tell it was an "astro-turf" campaign, a few students but mostly folks around my age (maybe slightly younger).  And all the protest signs were the same size poster-board with the same size/colors of marker going the copy.  

Anyway, seeing people of political persuasions today having no issue at all with the song being performed literally a few feet in front of them...I think this is a done issue.  If some players don't want to participate, as long as they are being respectful to those around them in their passive stance...who gives a shit?  This is a fucking done deal as far as almost everyone is concerned.  These guys put their health and lives on the line for our program, if they want to take a knee or not move their lips to a corny song, so be it.  The real fights are yet to come. 

I am coming around to this idea that as long as certain people let you know that something is racist, and you should feel bad about it while they ride around the block in a victory lap on their high horse, they don't really care if the thing is done away with or not. Esp with something as broad-brush racist as the Eyes -- something that came out of a racist milieu but in itself is not actively racist by any understanding. 

So now they've had a chance to preen and educate us on what simpletons the rest of us are, they have moved on to other targets, some more worthy, many probably less. This is what young hotheads do. And in time they mature and many mellow and learn to save their ire for actual issues of the sort discussed in cr.

And in truth the report it generated was fascinating, and the whole thing has served as a reminder, that yes, UT's past was very, very racist, but that does not mean you try to erase every aspect of it simply because it was born in those times. 

[XYZ 2154]

Has the Longhorn Band been playing The Eyes of Texas at the football games this season?

[Surly Bevo 24608]

8 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Has the Longhorn Band been playing The Eyes of Texas at the football games this season?

Yes

[Guest Lobo]

18 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Has the Longhorn Band been playing The Eyes of Texas at the football games this season?

Yes, but they've been playing it in Spanish as a show of solidarity.  

[VirginiaLonghorn 4728]

Just now, Lobo said:

Yes, but they've been playing it in Spanish as a show of solidarity.  

Jose canu si?

[RollLeft 5038]

2 hours ago, Lobo said:

Yes, but they've been playing it in Spanish as a show of solidarity.  

while also wearing these...

1994 is back!!