Traditional Asphalt or Fiber Reinforced Concrete for Driveway

[CHIEF 5228]

I know we have enough engineers, contractors, and construction folks here to get some good info. I am building a road into some property that I purchased. The bids are about the same. One is traditional asphalt, but I would be the one installing the road base on the half of the road that already doesn't have base. My concrete guy said he could use 3" of fiber reinforced concrete, and we wouldn't really need any base. The soil is sandy loam with little to no rock. The heaviest loads will be 20k pounds at the most. He has been using FRC on his flatwork at 3500 psi and has had no issues. Does anybody have experience with this stuff?

CHIEF

[TexasEd 8266]

This part "The soil is sandy loam with little to no rock" would worry me and get me to lean towards asphalt with road base.

 

How long is it?

[CHIEF 5228]

It's about 400 feet from my entrance to where I have already put down road base. No rock is my main concern. I can have some really good base delivered for $200-250 per load, would need about 3 loads, then I could spread it with my skid steer.

 

CHIEF

[Gil Bang 26240]

You cannot adequately compact road base with a skid steer.  You're gonna need  something heavier.   Is the paver willing to compact the base that you install?   And of course, the base will need to be watered properly to get compaction.  

Meanwhile, I'm interested to hear more about fiber reinforced concrete.  That's a new one on me. 

 

[Incredulity 11876]

Is it cement amendment what the one contractor referring to?

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2779]

Where are you located?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

You cannot adequately compact road base with a skid steer.  You're gonna need  something heavier.   Is the paver willing to compact the base that you install?   And of course, the base will need to be watered properly to get compaction.  

Meanwhile, I'm interested to hear more about fiber reinforced concrete.  That's a new one on me. 

 

Fibermesh concrete. It's got fiberglass embedded in the mixing matrix.  It's what we typically specify for garage slabs, porches etc.  

[CHIEF 5228]

The road base would be rolled with a road roller. All concrete cracks due to moisture and settling. From what I understand about FRC is that the fibers do not let the crack spread wider, unlike with rebar. It's also vastly cheaper overall. Going to a 3500 psi concrete and fiber is only about an extra $10 per yard, my job is about 15,000 sq/ft so the 200 yards would only be about $3000 extra. It's really a pretty cool product. Here is a pretty good video Gil:

CHIEF

Edited September 29, 2020 by CHIEF
$3000 extra

[CHIEF 5228]

5 minutes ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Where are you located?

Close to Granbury, in a 4700 acre river bend. It's riverfront, and as you get closer to the river and the bank drops off there is a limestone shelf. I would estimate that rock shelf to be about 30-40 feet under the property, at that point,  and covered with sand and silty soil down to that shelf.

CHIEF

[TexasEd 8266]

If you get infested with ducks I can take care of that for you.

[CHIEF 5228]

5 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

If you get infested with ducks I can take care of that for you.

It's a really good spot. Plenty of Teal and Widgeons in the freezer. We get a ton of Mallards and Gadwalls as well. 

CHIEF

[tx 3 putt 78682]

fiber 

[RPM 26628]

If you want to do it right, grade, compact, treat with hydrated lime, then put whatever you feel like because you now have a firm subbase that will last. Personally, I'd still put a layer of base even with the fiber concrete.

Edited September 29, 2020 by RPM

[miguelito 11505]

put lots of control joints in the concrete, even with the fiber. 

[CHIEF 5228]

4 hours ago, RPM said:

If you want to do it right, grade, compact, treat with hydrated lime, then put whatever you feel like because you now have a firm subbase that will last. Personally, I'd still put a layer of base even with the fiber concrete.

 

16 minutes ago, miguelito said:

put lots of control joints in the concrete, even with the fiber. 

Thanks guys, I'll be sure to make these recommendations. I'll post pics once we are done.

CHIEF

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

10 hours ago, miguelito said:

put lots of control joints in the concrete, even with the fiber. 

Yep, based on a square foot formula.  Interesting story.  They built a concrete paved, city of Richmond, Va. bypass parkway back in the late 90's.  When it got hot the road way would buckle. This happened several times over the course of a few years. It was ultimately discovered the saw cut/ or control joints were a 1/16 too small. The heat expansion over each section of roadway was enough to cause the buckling as the sections expanded into each other.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[TexasEd 8266]

11 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yep, based on a square foot formula.  Intersting story.  They built a concrete paved, city of Richmond, Va. bypass parkway back in the late 90's.  When it got hot the road way would buckle. This happened several times over the course of a few years. It was ultimately discovered the saw cut/ or control joints were a 1/16 too small. The heat expansion over each section of roadway was enough to cause the buckling as the sections expanded into each other.

Midlothian Turnpike?  I think that was late 80s to early 90s

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, TexasEd said:

Midlothian Turnpike?  I think that was late 80s to early 90s

288, routes west of the city north to south. I don't remember Midlo tnpk doing that.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2779]

@G650 Any input on this?  

[RPM 26628]

5 hours ago, TexasEd said:

Midlothian Turnpike?  I think that was late 80s to early 90s

 

5 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

288, routes west of the city north to south. I don't remember Midlo tnpk doing that.

Yer both wrong. 287 runs through Midlothian.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 hours ago, RPM said:

 

Yer both wrong. 287 runs through Midlothian.

287 288 whatever it takes.....(obligatory)

 

PRO TIP:  It's Rt.288 though

[Bevo 13897]

9 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yep, based on a square foot formula.  Intersting story.  They built a concrete paved, city of Richmond, Va. bypass parkway back in the late 90's.  When it got hot the road way would buckle. This happened several times over the course of a few years. It was ultimately discovered the saw cut/ or control joints were a 1/16 too small. The heat expansion over each section of roadway was enough to cause the buckling as the sections expanded into each other.

You and I have different ideas of interesting stories. Mine usually start, "I never really thought that it would happen to me. My wife had a girlfriend visiting or better yet, my wife was out of town".

Edited September 29, 2020 by Bevo

[tx 3 putt 78682]

we redid the cart paths at my old home course many years back with fiber concrete. zero cracks 15 years later 

[Gil Bang 26240]

31 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

we redid the cart paths at my old home course many years back with fiber concrete. zero cracks 15 years later 

You and Chuy and Juan got out there and got after it?

[CHIEF 5228]

Jose, Anulfo, and Paco poured the culvert today. I used FRC at 3500 psi, rebar in the 45 degree corners. Looks great. Jose has been around here for 35 years, he can do concrete, erect metal buildings, build fence, and  can roof as well. The guy can do anything. I loaded him up with firewood. and he is coming back later in the fall to pick up pecans. 

CHIEF

[TwiceHorn 32079]

You in Pecan Plantation? 

Or DeCordova Bend?  Just your own land (maybe I'm remembering its your Mom in PP?).

[CHIEF 5228]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

You in Pecan Plantation? 

Or DeCordova Bend?  Just your own land (maybe I'm remembering its your Mom in PP?).

Pecan Plantation

CHIEF

[TwiceHorn 32079]

2 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

Pecan Plantation

CHIEF

It's nice out there.  What's the HOA situation like?

[luke duke 6450]

Pecan Plantation
CHIEF

I probably know a bunch of your neighbors. I used to work at CP.

[tx 3 putt 78682]

4 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

You and Chuy and Juan got out there and got after it?

i was a board member and over saw most of the work, go fuck yourself 

Edited October 1, 2020 by tx 3 putt

[markstanco 12788]

A caliche base and a skid steer will prepare for whatever you want. Or its fine by itself.

[CHIEF 5228]

14 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's nice out there.  What's the HOA situation like?

Not bad at all. Normal shit like you can't leave boats and trailers in your driveway, trash cans can't be left out in full view unless its trash day. But trash, security, street maintenance, and all the golf you can play only runs $157 a month. Courses are top notch, mini verde greens, Arkansas crushed granite sand traps, bent grass fairways. Supposedly the best golf course community for the price in the USA. Less than an hour to downtown Ft. Worth in normal traffic, Clubhouse pours strong drinks.. The demographic is trending younger.

CHIEF

[CHIEF 5228]

12 hours ago, luke duke said:

 

I probably know a bunch of your neighbors. I used to work at CP.

 

We have a bunch of Comanche Peak retirees, our favorite old crotchety nuclear engineer, Dale Phalen, and a bunch of others. My cousin has worked out there for over 35 years, Kenneth Robinson.

CHIEF