2020 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES: Joe Biden vs Donald Trump

[Buzzrock 14920]

Lol

[Horn Dogg 3897]

1 hour ago, TexEx15 said:

As a Pete fan I will always be sad that we did not get to see Pete debate Trump.

I was thinking the same thing, Pete would have roasted him.  Trump wants to talk about being tough?  Pete just talks about his experience in the military vs Trumps draft dodging.  Trump wants to talk about Policy?  Pete would run circles around him.  Trump wants to get loud?  Pete would be able to get just as loud yet maintain his composure.  About all Trump could do is rail on him for his sexuality, but that wouldn’t sit well with anyone outside of his redneck base.  

[Brisketexan 105119]

Oh, and Biden missed a LOT of easy layups.  Seriously, there were some zingers there to be had.  Now, that's never really been his style, so it's not really fair to expect it from him, but yeah.

Some easy ones:

When Wallace called out Trump for not following the debate rules, follow with "why would you expect him to follow the rules?  He can't even follow the law?"

On the topic of "law and order," say "I absolutely believe in The Rule of Law.  And it starts at the top.  We need a president who will follow the law, and not build a criminal gang -- with dozens of indictments and convictions so far.  We need a president who will follow the constitution, including the emoluments clause, and not take money from foreign countries.  Law and Order starts at the top, and it starts with FOLLOWING the law."

On the ballots -- "you aren't talking about ballots.  Those aren't being sent.  What's being sent is ballot applications.  So, add that to the list of things you know absolutely nothing about.  Trying to undermine our election by yammering about things you don't even understand -- that's par for the Trump course."

There were plenty of others -- there was something about "it's in my blood" - it was a great opportunity for Biden to say that "loyalty to my country and its people -- that's what's in my blood."  He did say that he would be the president to ALL Americans, even those who don't vote for him, and that was important.  He needs to send that message more frequently, and more pointedly.  He needs to contrast -- Trump thinks his job is to lead red states, and punish blue states.  I will be president of the UNITED States.  All of them.  Being president is a solemn obligation and a duty to every single American.  I will serve all of them.  Petty grudges are for children, not presidents.

[Dahobbs 17534]

1 hour ago, JBJ said:

Now you are just parsing the language. Everyone knows antifa referred to the violent leftwing extremists. It was in the middle of a discussion on riots, police, and law and order.

No, only fucking gullible fucks who believe everything a lying conman says "knows" that.  Sick fuck. 

[Hank Kingsley 20925]

1 minute ago, Horn Dogg said:

I was thinking the same thing, Pete would have roasted him.  Trump wants to talk about being tough?  Pete just talks about his experience in the military vs Trumps draft dodging.  Trump wants to talk about Policy?  Pete would run circles around him.  Trump wants to get loud?  Pete would be able to get just as loud yet maintain his composure.  About all Trump could do is rail on him for his sexuality, but that wouldn’t sit well with anyone outside of his redneck base.  

Not to get into the weeds about Pete, but this debate was also originally scheduled to be held in South Bend, Indiana. With the pending ACB nomination that would have been kinda bonkers. 

 

[JBJ 3654]

6 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Sure, Albert Pike

 

I'm not sure how to compare antifa as an idea/movement/organization to Albert Pike.

You guys are poo-pooing the comparison of antifa and white supremacy as examples of both words that refer to both ideas and violent extremism.  I give that both are loaded language, that's sort of necessary for the comparison.  But the criticism is a little silly when no one can offer anything better.

[Horn Dogg 3897]

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Not to get into the weeds about Pete, but this debate was also originally scheduled to be held in South Bend, Indiana. With the pending ACB nomination that would have been kinda bonkers. 

 

Good point, I hadn’t thought about that.

[yoladu 4094]

 

22 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

There are two more of these?  Do we know who is moderating? Jesus.

Biden needs to insist on ability to cut mikes, although that won't prevent Trump from just shouting across the stage.  Unless they can figure out a different format, I don't know if next two will be any different, and could get worse.

The main piece of low hanging fruit, in my mind, that Joe missed last night was the unsolicited ballot comment.  There is no such thing, and that needs to be hammered home.  There are unsolicited ballot applications.  But unless you are in one of the states where all voting is done by mail, people can't just send you ballots without you completing an application.  This is one of the biggest lies in this whole fraudulent election argument being espoused by Trumpkins, and one of the easiest to refute.  

agree. the GOP similarly conflates voter registration fraud to voter fraud.

..

I also wish Biden had addressed Trumps's claim that Obama left all those federal judge slots vacant and Trump swooped right in to fill them.

Mitch McConnell obstructed the filling of those vacancies until of course a GOP president was in power.

Edited September 30, 2020 by yoladu

[Biff Tannen 45678]

6 minutes ago, Horn Dogg said:

I was thinking the same thing, Pete would have roasted him.  Trump wants to talk about being tough?  Pete just talks about his experience in the military vs Trumps draft dodging.  Trump wants to talk about Policy?  Pete would run circles around him.  Trump wants to get loud?  Pete would be able to get just as loud yet maintain his composure.  About all Trump could do is rail on him for his sexuality, but that wouldn’t sit well with anyone outside of his redneck base.  

That would have been awesome.  

[Doc Sam Beckett 5793]

17 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I've been saying this since 2016.  Literally act like he's not there.  He doesn't "debate" so there's no point.  Get your talking points across and ignore him.

So this might actually feed into what Donald's strategy apparently was. A political correspondent from the Washington Examiner was on earlier and said Donald's strategy was to (paraphrasing) be tough and forceful and show the voters that Biden is weak and unable to respond to toughness and therefore shouldn't be sitting across from leaders like Xi or Rocket boy.

Take that and combine it with this tweet below, and you can see their thought process. Now Donald failed miserably, but ignoring him might have given them what they were looking for... 

 

[pearlandhorn 3269]

31 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I really don’t care what your political views are.  Personally, I would classify myself as a center right Republican if I had to put a label on it.  We need more fiscal responsibility than either party has shown.  We need more strategic social programs, rather than what is becoming a universal minimum wage.  But I digress.  My point is, irrespective of your politics, how on earth can ANYONE support four more years of a man who has made it his mission to tear the country apart, continually and continuously embarrasses the country and the office he holds, who caters only to those who support him and the rest be damned, and has made our country an international laughing stock?  It baffles me that anyone can stand behind this guy.  And please don’t say I support his policies, not him as an individual.  You don’t get to separate the two.  I am no fan of Joe Biden, but his comment that Donald Trump is the worst president in American history could not be more spot on.  We absolutely can not afford 4 more years of this.  We deserve better.   MUCH better.  

I couldn't agree with you more.  Every step of the way.  I feel like the two party system has failed, once again, as it has at pretty much every election in the past.  The Dems have a guy up there who probably won't survive his presidency if elected, who hasn't even come out and said what he's going to do regarding certain aspects of the country.  The Republicans are doubling down on the hate and division with Trump.  The whole world is laughing and to be honest, I was sitting on my couch last night being entertained by the circus more than I was being informed on what was going to happen the next four years. 

I don't discuss politics because I'm probably not with the masses on this board regarding who I'm going to vote for but I'm seriously considering just sitting this one out.  Republican party is a shitshow.  Democratic party is essentially the "non-Trump" party and have no set agenda other than "Trump said this so we want the opposite so people will vote for us."

[SydneyCarton 48090]

9 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Lol

That's just the next rock the embarrassed people will start flocking towards. And I saw that as someone who has held many libertarian principles most of my adult life. 

[wildcat09 29353]

1 minute ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

So this might actually feed into what Donald's strategy apparently was. A political correspondent from the Washington Examiner was on earlier and said Donald's strategy was to (paraphrasing) be tough and forceful and show the voters that Biden is weak and unable to respond to toughness and therefore shouldn't be sitting across from leaders like Xi or Rocket boy.

Take that and combine it with this tweet below, and you can see their thought process. Now Donald failed miserably, but ignoring him might have given them what they were looking for... 

 

If that was their strategy it was a dumb fucking strategy. 

[Juicy 727]

1 hour ago, JBJ said:

 You ignore what is said and argue strawmen.

Isn't that the same thing as the debate?

[4th&Five 41528]

3 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

I couldn't agree with you more.  Every step of the way.  I feel like the two party system has failed, once again, as it has at pretty much every election in the past.  The Dems have a guy up there who probably won't survive his presidency if elected, who hasn't even come out and said what he's going to do regarding certain aspects of the country.  The Republicans are doubling down on the hate and division with Trump.  The whole world is laughing and to be honest, I was sitting on my couch last night being entertained by the circus more than I was being informed on what was going to happen the next four years. 

I don't discuss politics because I'm probably not with the masses on this board regarding who I'm going to vote for but I'm seriously considering just sitting this one out.  Republican party is a shitshow.  Democratic party is essentially the "non-Trump" party and have no set agenda other than "Trump said this so we want the opposite so people will vote for us."

Honestly, doing the opposite of Donald Trump is a pretty good rule to live by. He’s a broke, racist, mean sack of shit that wants to punish people who don’t worship him. He’s been awful to anyone he’s ever known and has never shown an ounce of compassion for anyone besides himself. If Biden doesn’t seem like a better choice then that I can’t help you. 

[RDCanecutter 26426]

I watched for about 12 seconds, did a quick calculation of how many minutes of life are left to me, then switched to Youtube videos where an Irish guy walks around old jeeps and trucks and tanks and talks about them.

[TexArcher 37774]

40 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Biden can't be the one who cancels the debates.  Not matter how big of a shitshow they are, he has to keep doing them until Trump or the networks tap.

I don't think there was ever going to be more than one debate.  It felt like Trump's gameplan was to turn it into a fight, win the fight (which I'm sure he thinks he did), then decline the rest of them.

And Pence will duck Kamala, too.

Edited September 30, 2020 by TexArcher

[Brisketexan 105119]

1 minute ago, RDCanecutter said:

I watched for about 12 seconds, did a quick calculation of how many minutes of life are left to me, then switched to Youtube videos where an Irish guy walks around old jeeps and trucks and tanks and talks about them.

Is he, like, an Irish citizen, or is he an American of Irish ancestry?  Because if it's the second, he could run for president.....and I'm listening.....

[wildcat09 29353]

8 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

I couldn't agree with you more.  Every step of the way.  I feel like the two party system has failed, once again, as it has at pretty much every election in the past.  The Dems have a guy up there who probably won't survive his presidency if elected, who hasn't even come out and said what he's going to do regarding certain aspects of the country.  The Republicans are doubling down on the hate and division with Trump.  The whole world is laughing and to be honest, I was sitting on my couch last night being entertained by the circus more than I was being informed on what was going to happen the next four years. 

I don't discuss politics because I'm probably not with the masses on this board regarding who I'm going to vote for but I'm seriously considering just sitting this one out.  Republican party is a shitshow.  Democratic party is essentially the "non-Trump" party and have no set agenda other than "Trump said this so we want the opposite so people will vote for us."

Lol, what is this supposed to mean?

[Fletch 5800]

39 minutes ago, B00M said:

Rogan had that piece of shit on his show? How does a guy like this openly exist today? Wow.

 

 

 

Yet another reason ahh I hardly watch Rogan anymore. I love that he gives a platform to everyone but dude can you filter it some? No proud boys asshole, no Alex Jones. No pieces of shit like that. Christ, joe!!!!! Know your fucking audience you fucking meathead 

[yoladu 4094]

3 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Honestly, doing the opposite of Donald Trump is a pretty good rule to live by. He’s a broke, racist, mean sack of shit that wants to punish people who don’t worship him. He’s been awful to anyone he’s ever known and has never shown an ounce of compassion for anyone besides himself. If Biden doesn’t seem like a better choice then that I can’t help you. 

[Bateshorn 9927]

30 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Stop being surprised.  Accept the reality -- we are a shitty country full of shitty, shitty people.  We aren't the "shining city on a hill" that we thought we were.  We're a gilded, bullying, dung heap, built on a foundation of cruelty and suffering that we deny in public and gloat over in private.  Trump may be the perfect president for this country at this point in time.  

I was once naive like you, and thought that racism, cruelty, and the like had been beaten back into dark corners, where small fragments might survive, but they would ultimately be of no consequence.  Then, we saw what happened when white people got scared, when they realized that 1) they may not keep their death-grip on power, and worried 2) "holy shit, what if non-white people coming to power treat us as shitty as we treated them?"  And those impulses caused them to come out of the woodwork, and to dial up their shittiness to 11.

Not only did they not have a problem with Trump's infantile bullying last night, they fucking LOVED it.  An old college friend, a super Trumpkin, went on and on last night about how it's awesome, Trump's "a real junkyard dog!"  Of course, I reminded him that everyone knows that when a dog just turns irrationally vicious and dangerous, there's only one course of action....

So, to build on this and my point about Nathaniel Bedford Forrest: as recently as 1990, his virtues as a leader and tactician were being extolled in a Ken Burns documentary without noting he was a wartime genocidaire and militant white supremicist and founder of the KKK. The truth is, he should be taught within the narrow confines of military tactics, and otherwise broadly discussed as one of America’s historical monsters.
 

This is not a slag on Shelby Foote, although I have many problems with him, it’s a broader point that the cruel  racism of this country doesn’t just run deep:  it’s the original foundation of our nation and pervades every aspect of our culture and society.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Bateshorn

[wildcat09 29353]

Just now, TexArcher said:

I don't think there was ever going to be more than one debate.  It felt like Trump's gameplan was to turn it into a fight, win the fight (which I'm sure he thinks he did), then decline the rest of them.

I'm not sure this is accurate, but I think much of the immediate media commentary beginning immediately after the debate ended about how there shouldn't be any more debates is because the corporate media realized how bad it went for him. The corporate media's dirty secret is that they'll do what they can to help Trump because they're financially invested in a close election.

[RDCanecutter 26426]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Is he, like, an Irish citizen, or is he an American of Irish ancestry?  Because if it's the second, he could run for president.....and I'm listening.....

Born in Ireland, later joined the American Army.

[SizzleChest 8283]

[bad_teammate 13195]

workswithseed went to a couple of protests in Portland, ostensibly looking to find the violent thugs he's been hearing about on social media. He actually met a bunch of normal people and nothing all that remarkable.

That didn't satisfy him, so he came back to the Internet, back into social media hate bubbles, and gained nothing out of the experience.

Really sad to see.

Edited September 30, 2020 by bad_teammate

[Brisketexan 105119]

Just now, RDCanecutter said:

Born in Ireland, later joined the American Army.

Well, fuck.  I'll keep looking.  Maybe one of those youtubers who does creative things with open fire cooking is eligible.....

[TexArcher 37774]

The thing that scared me about last night was Trump's air of seeming offended that he had to be up there at all.  How dare anyone try to take this from him?  Like a king whose birthright throne is being challenged by some wannabe usurper.  Like he already knows how this election turns out, because the mechanisms to steal it are already in place, and that was all a bullshit dog and pony show that was beneath him.

I'm also more convinced than ever that Trump is capable of some unspeakable shit if he gets another four years.

[SydneyCarton 48090]

54 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

I couldn't agree with you more.  Every step of the way.  I feel like the two party system has failed, once again, as it has at pretty much every election in the past.  The Dems have a guy up there who probably won't survive his presidency if elected, who hasn't even come out and said what he's going to do regarding certain aspects of the country.  The Republicans are doubling down on the hate and division with Trump.  The whole world is laughing and to be honest, I was sitting on my couch last night being entertained by the circus more than I was being informed on what was going to happen the next four years. 

I don't discuss politics because I'm probably not with the masses on this board regarding who I'm going to vote for but I'm seriously considering just sitting this one out.  Republican party is a shitshow.  Democratic party is essentially the "non-Trump" party and have no set agenda other than "Trump said this so we want the opposite so people will vote for us."

 

This is patently untrue. Joe Biden has an extensive agenda he has written about on many different topics. Just because you haven't read it, and can't be bothered to look into it, doesn't make your dismissiveness justified or valid. Only one candidate and party REFUSED to put together a party platform.

And by the way, if you can't get motivated against a party that, per your own words and recognition, is doubling down on hate and divisiveness, well, then you are part of that shitshow, and you can get fucked. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by SydneyCarton

[bad_teammate 13195]

The Democratic Party clearly has an agenda and plans and ideas. It's absurd to argue otherwise.

You can dislike it, but it exists.

[CDAK 216]

I think Trump's strategy was to be ultra aggressive and Joe would be so bamboozled that he would seem like a lost Alzheimer's patient on stage. That obviously didn't work. Joe stammered some but it didn't seem like he was completely lost. And any substance from Trump was lost due to his constant interrupting and bickering. 

Joe also seems to waffle on his policies, reiterating what someone said above not know what his policies are. He rather emphatically denounced the green new deal last night. His website states "Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face."  https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/

[Brisketexan 105119]

3 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

So, to build on this and my point about Nathaniel Bedford Forrest: as recently as 1990, his virtues as a leader and tactician were being extolled in a Ken Burns documentary without noting he was a wartime genocidaire and militant white supremicist and founder of the KKK. The truth is, he should be taught within the narrow confines of military tactics, and otherwise broadly discussed as one of America’s historical monsters.
 

This is not a slag on Shelby Foote, although I have many problems with him, it’s a broader point that the cruel  racism of this country doesn’t just run deep:  it’s the original foundation of our nation and pervades every aspect of our culture and society.

And we fight so, so, so hard to avoid admitting it.

Surely you've done something at some point in your life you're genuinely ashamed of, because it was genuinely bad -- you cheated on a partner, you stole something from someone, whatever.  If you've ever done something like that, and THEN you confessed your wrongdoing....you know how amazing, and cleansing that is.  Once it is done, you realize that you, and those you have wronged, can genuinely move forward and eventually move beyond the original wrong.

Slavery and racism are our original sins.  And they aren't just incidental/products of circumstance.  They were woven in from the very beginning; they were embedded in our founding document; even after a Civil War over the legal status of black people (slaves or free?), we then spent a century fighting to insure that, even if free, they had a status that was less than fully American, less than fully free.  These weren't bugs of our system - they were features.

ACKNOWLEDGE IT.  ADMIT IT.  CONFRONT IT.  Only once you do those things can you heal.  We are doing everything we can to PREVENT healing.  We wrap ourselves in the flag and crow about how exceptional we are, and just shout over any mention of our sin.  We do everything we can to avoid the one thing that can actually make us better: admit the wrong, and seek healing.

[JBJ 3654]

18 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

No, only fucking gullible fucks who believe everything a lying conman says "knows" that.  Sick fuck. 

Yeah only gullible fucks think that they were talking about violent extremism in a question about extremist groups "adding to the violence in a number of our cities."

[Bateshorn 9927]

27 minutes ago, JBJ said:

I'm not sure how to compare antifa as an idea/movement/organization to Albert Pike.

You guys are poo-pooing the comparison of antifa and white supremacy as examples of both words that refer to both ideas and violent extremism.  I give that both are loaded language, that's sort of necessary for the comparison.  But the criticism is a little silly when no one can offer anything better.

Here are some antifascist: Dwight Eisenhower, Captain America, Audie Murphy. 
 

The reason we are dismissing you is your argument is trash. Not because you are conservative. 

[RomaVicta 29907]

58 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I really don’t care what your political views are.  Personally, I would classify myself as a center right Republican if I had to put a label on it.  We need more fiscal responsibility than either party has shown.  We need more strategic social programs, rather than what is becoming a universal minimum wage.  But I digress.  My point is, irrespective of your politics, how on earth can ANYONE support four more years of a man who has made it his mission to tear the country apart, continually and continuously embarrasses the country and the office he holds, who caters only to those who support him and the rest be damned, and has made our country an international laughing stock?  It baffles me that anyone can stand behind this guy.  And please don’t say I support his policies, not him as an individual.  You don’t get to separate the two.  I am no fan of Joe Biden, but his comment that Donald Trump is the worst president in American history could not be more spot on.  We absolutely can not afford 4 more years of this.  We deserve better.   MUCH better.  

Now the Trumpists who occupy the corpse of the GOP like maggots in the asshole of a dead rat will lump you in with the ebil libs, part of the echo-chamber cabal blinded by hate with hidden agendas and narratives to promote. Your tears are now liberal. Your opinion not to be listened to. You hate America, keep Blacks on a plantation of welfare, and hate the military. You're a wimp, a snowflake, and an unmanly manful man like the badasses who remain with Trump.

Oh, and fuck your feelings, you fag.

ABSOLUTELY NO POLITICS, PLEASE!

[Mole 4330]

20 minutes ago, pearlandhorn said:

 

Except the sandwich analogy doesn’t hold up. It’s more like a BLT that’s been sitting in the fridge, so the lettuce is a little wilted and the bread is maybe a little soggy vs. a bucket of bloody diarrhea and vomit that’s been sitting next to the dumpster for a few days. One is a possibility forgettable culinary experience that has a very low risk of making you ill, the other has dead flies floating in it.

[Chuckie Finster 22694]

6 minutes ago, CDAK said:

I think Trump's strategy was to be ultra aggressive and Joe would be so bamboozled that he would seem like a lost Alzheimer's patient on stage. That obviously didn't work. Joe stammered some but it didn't seem like he was completely lost. And any substance from Trump was lost due to his constant interrupting and bickering. 

Joe also seems to waffle on his policies, reiterating what someone said above not know what his policies are. He rather emphatically denounced the green new deal last night. His website states "Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face."  https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/

He said he rejected the Green New Deal, but supports the Biden Plan.  It might have been a gaffe and then an attempt to recover, but for anyone not looking for a gotcha moment it barely registered.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Chuckie Finster

[bernorange 8361]

51 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Man, this right here is why we're turbofucked. Type "wh" into Google and the first search result is "WHO WON DEBATE". ...

That's not a search result.  That's Google's autocomplete algorithm trying to read your mind (or influence it depending upon your perspective).

[RomaVicta 29907]

1 hour ago, Horn Dog said:

Things I would like to see Biden's prep team emphasize for next "debate":

1.  If trump brings up his education and intelligence again,  ask him why he won't release his college transcripts or his SAT registration/signature info.

2.  When trump sates he "has done more in 4 yrs then anyone else", say oh yea no one is debating that. Most destructive events are quick and fast, its the building that takes time.

3.  When trump brings up Hunter and drug abuse, Biden should just look at him and say "Careful Donnie....glass houses".  Then loudly  sniff repeatedly.

4.  When Trump goes on an unhinged rant, Biden should just look at him and say "Donnie are you OK?  Seriously we are all worried about you.  Cleveland Clinic, the sponsor of these debates, has excellent mental health professionals"

5.  More ridicule.  Biden needs to work of his Ray from Goodfellas laugh for when Trump is going batshit

 

 

Maybe he should just point out how the debate is the perfect metaphor for Trump's tenure in office.

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

28 minutes ago, yoladu said:

 

agree. the GOP similarly conflates voter registration fraud to voter fraud.

..

I also wish Biden had addressed Trumps's claim that Obama left all those federal judge slots vacant and Trump swooped right in to fill them.

Mitch McConnell obstructed the filling of those vacancies until of course a GOP president was in power.

Yep, I mentioned that one real time. Biden should have leveraged that one into looking straight into the camera and telling viewers that is why it’s important to not only vote dotard out of office but all the GOP senators and reps as well. They cannot be trusted with our government. 

[Dbeasy 15048]

 

I agree with this sentiment 100%. Trump has done more damage in 47 months than Biden has done in 47 years.

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

22 minutes ago, Fletch said:

Yet another reason ahh I hardly watch Rogan anymore. I love that he gives a platform to everyone but dude can you filter it some? No proud boys asshole, no Alex Jones. No pieces of shit like that. Christ, joe!!!!! Know your fucking audience you fucking meathead 

Pretty sure most of his audience are meatheads so he does know them quite well. 

[Mdhorn 5949]

2 hours ago, JBJ said:

White supremacy is also an idea and not an organization.  This was as bad a moment for Biden as the opposite one was for Trump.

You're right, Biden should have said Klan.  

[CDAK 216]

6 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

He said he rejected the Green New Deal, but supports the Biden Plan.  It might have been a gaffe and then an attempt to recover, but for anyone not looking for a gotcha moment it barely registered.

Isn't the Green New Deal a large component of the Biden Plan? I assume the speech was a gaffe, mistake, whatever, and he supports the Green New Deal. 

[RomaVicta 29907]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

This is true, but misses the bigger motivator which is that they are ideologically committed to protecting and increasing the political power of conservatives. They may think Trump is a boor, they may think he's dumb, they may wish he was more sophisticated, but more importantly, they fundamentally think that his conservative hierarchical worldview is right. John Roberts wouldn't be doing all he can this year in the shadow docket to prevent black people from being able to vote if he didn't want Trump to win.

For all we know, they're all part of the GOP criminal enterprise as well. Raper and beer-over Kavanaugh has sudden unexplained wealth, doesn't he? There's at least one more who does/did. Everybody was getting rich on oligarch money until Trump came in and seized the reins of the hate engine and fucked it all up by being sloppy.

I have no faith in anyone beholden to the GOP at a high level. For all I know, formerly uncorrupt judges may have had to dip their hand in the tar to get their appointment. Share our guilt to get your benefits. Think of all the good you can do to balance out this one misdeed.

I imagine no limits to the villainy of a powerful political party content to destroy the institutions and traditions of what was once an exemplary republic.

[JBJ 3654]

3 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Here are some antifascist: Dwight Eisenhower, Captain America, Audie Murphy. 

The reason we are dismissing you is your argument is trash. Not because you are conservative. 

Eisenhower would have had no problem condemning the violent extremism coming from antifa.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20397]

53 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Are you fucking kidding me? Antifa means antifascist and the whole ideology is based on fighting fucking fascism. You know, Nazis. How in the blue fuck is that comparable to supporting white supremacy? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Is JBJ trying to draw a moral equivalency between anti-facism and white supremacy?

I think I see problem. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Horn Under a Bad Sign

[Doc Sam Beckett 5793]

Just now, CDAK said:

Isn't the Green New Deal a large component of the Biden Plan? I assume the speech was a gaffe, mistake, whatever, and he supports the Green New Deal. 

The quote you posted says "Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face." 

I take that as Biden used the GND as a framework to craft the Biden Plan. 

[bad_teammate 13195]

12 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Yeah only gullible fucks think that they were talking about violent extremism in a question about extremist groups "adding to the violence in a number of our cities."

ANTIFA is a response to violence (either state violence or rogue violence). ANTIFA doesn't just roll into a city unprompted.

It's like watching two people fight and say, "YOU'RE BOTH RESPONSIBLE!" when one of them was eating a sandwich, got slapped in the face, and hit back.

No, it's the person who threw the first punch's fault. Blaming ANTIFA for this stuff is like the lazy school rules that suspend both people in a fight regardless of what happened.

This is something centrists and liberals need to learn quickly: When you spend years decrying ANTIFA and tearing it down and both-sidesing it, YOU HAVE CREATED A SITUATION IN WHICH THE ONLY DEFENSE AGAINST WHITE SUPREMACY YOU HAVE IS DELEGITIMIZED.

Stop helping the fascists.

[JBJ 3654]

1 minute ago, Mdhorn said:

You're right, Biden should have said Klan.  

Wallace used "white supremacy," "militias," "leftwing extremists," and "antifa."

None of these are specific organizations because that's not what the question was.  It was about condemning violent extremism from your own side.