2020 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES: Joe Biden vs Donald Trump

[Ghost of LL 15477]

26 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

So, to build on this and my point about Nathaniel Bedford Forrest: as recently as 1990, his virtues as a leader and tactician were being extolled in a Ken Burns documentary without noting he was a wartime genocidaire and militant white supremicist and founder of the KKK. The truth is, he should be taught within the narrow confines of military tactics, and otherwise broadly discussed as one of America’s historical monsters.
 

This is not a slag on Shelby Foote, although I have many problems with him, it’s a broader point that the cruel  racism of this country doesn’t just run deep:  it’s the original foundation of our nation and pervades every aspect of our culture and society.

I just learned a new word.

[SydneyCarton 47846]

1 minute ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

The quote you posted says "Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face." 

I take that as Biden used the GND as a framework to craft the Biden Plan. 

Correct. A perfect example to illustrate this factually would be the fact that, unlike the GND, the Biden plan does not call for the elimination of Fracking. Not that that would be considered a huge difference by, I don't know, anyone with an IQ approaching triple digits. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19146]

13 minutes ago, bernorange said:

That's not a search result.  That's Google's autocomplete algorithm trying to read your mind (or influence it depending upon your perspective).

My googles must be broke. Mine autocompletes to “whores in heat”

[Longboard Horn 40123]

[Sbbruin 21708]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I agree with everything you said, but this part, eh, I'm not so sure we do.

Don't lose sight of what America is.  It is a much bigger idea than any one man.  We can be great again.  Not HIS version of great.  But history's version of great.  But we have got to put this guy as far in the rearview mirror as possible.

[CDAK 216]

6 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

The quote you posted says "Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face." 

I take that as Biden used the GND as a framework to craft the Biden Plan. 

And last night he said "[n]o, I don't support the Green New Deal." Those statements conflict. 

[Dahobbs 17437]

11 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Eisenhower would have had no problem condemning the violent extremism coming from antifa.

Biden fucking condemned violence. He said "violence is never appropriate" and that anyone committing crimes should be prosecuted. What the fuck more do you want? What is wrong with you? Why are you insisting on equating anti-fascismism with white supremacy? Why are you misrepresenting facts? 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20342]

5 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

My googles must be broke. Mine autocompletes to “whores in heat”

 

I keep coming up with "midget lesbians."  I guess that algorithm must be pretty good. 

[RomaVicta 29775]

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

I'm not even saying all of antifa is, but Rose City Antifa definitely has been organized more than not. On the web site they've been around since 2007.

And it's pure evil. It's all about being on guard against fascism and how to fight fascism's rise. 

Here's an answer to the question about White Supremecists having rights:

Quote

No one has the right to threaten our community with violence. We reject the “right” of the government and police to decide for us when fascists have crossed the line from merely expressing themselves into posing an immediate threat.

Scary stuff.

Fuck you.

[Red Five 40632]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Biden fucking condemned violence. He said "violence is never appropriate" and that anyone committing crimes should be prosecuted. What the fuck more do you want? What is wrong with you? Why are you insisting on equating anti-fascismism with white supremacy? Why are you misrepresenting facts? 

"Joe Biden refuses to condemn the violence!"

"Yes I do. Here, I'll do it again. I condemn all the violence. Oh hey also I don't want to defund the police."

"See! He refuses to condemn it! Also, he wants to defund the police!!". 

[Mdhorn 5911]

1 hour ago, HenryJames said:

 

You could see Trump fuming, barely containing his anger with every turn of his head.  I know because I am or was a hot head, street fighting man at one time.  I could see his temp rising when Joe was talking.  He couldn't help to interrupt because he was going crazy.  

[GopherRock 1765]

16 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Eisenhower would have had no problem condemning the violent extremism coming from antifa.

The great irony of this is that as commander of SHAEF, Ike led the greatest antifa force ever assembled.

[SydneyCarton 47846]

Also, for the record, in case anyone whines about police endorsements this was a 5 second google, for a big ass fucking swing state:

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/charlotte/news/2020/09/04/6-north-carolina-sheriffs-endorse-biden

[TheStoicPaisano 9904]

1 hour ago, A-Tex Devil said:

There are two more of these?  Do we know who is moderating? Jesus.

Biden needs to insist on ability to cut mikes, although that won't prevent Trump from just shouting across the stage.  Unless they can figure out a different format, I don't know if next two will be any different, and could get worse.

The main piece of low hanging fruit, in my mind, that Joe missed last night was the unsolicited ballot comment.  There is no such thing, and that needs to be hammered home.  There are unsolicited ballot applications.  But unless you are in one of the states where all voting is done by mail, people can't just send you ballots without you completing an application.  This is one of the biggest lies in this whole fraudulent election argument being espoused by Trumpkins, and one of the easiest to refute.  

As of 2 SEP:

Quote

Vice presidential debate:

Susan Page, Washington Bureau Chief, USA Today
Wednesday, October 7, The University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT

Second presidential debate (town meeting):

Steve Scully, Senior Executive Producer & Political Editor, C-SPAN Networks
Thursday, October 15, Adrienne Arsht Center for the Performing Arts, Miami, FL

Third presidential debate:

Kristen Welker, Co-Anchor Weekend TODAY, White House Correspondent, NBC News
Thursday, October 22, Belmont University, Nashville, TN

 

[Dahobbs 17437]

24 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Wallace used "white supremacy," "militias," "leftwing extremists," and "antifa."

None of these are specific organizations because that's not what the question was.  It was about condemning violent extremism from your own side.

And he did it. What is wrong with you? What do you think he should have done that he did not do?  

Biden: "Violence is never appropriate" and should be prosecuted. 

Trump: [to violent white supremacists] "stand down and stand by"

Unlike you, I know those are not same thing. One is a good measured statement against violence. The other is a command to wait for his order to commit violence. Fuck you, you sick fuck. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Dahobbs

[DigglerontheHoof 21052]

1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

I really don’t care what your political views are.  Personally, I would classify myself as a center right Republican if I had to put a label on it.  We need more fiscal responsibility than either party has shown.  We need more strategic social programs, rather than what is becoming a universal minimum wage.  But I digress.  My point is, irrespective of your politics, how on earth can ANYONE support four more years of a man who has made it his mission to tear the country apart, continually and continuously embarrasses the country and the office he holds, who caters only to those who support him and the rest be damned, and has made our country an international laughing stock?  It baffles me that anyone can stand behind this guy.  And please don’t say I support his policies, not him as an individual.  You don’t get to separate the two.  I am no fan of Joe Biden, but his comment that Donald Trump is the worst president in American history could not be more spot on.  We absolutely can not afford 4 more years of this.  We deserve better.   MUCH better.  

I'd like to quote this verbatim on my FB page.  Bravo.

[Sbbruin 21708]

36 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Now the Trumpists who occupy the corpse of the GOP like maggots in the asshole of a dead rat will lump you in with the ebil libs, part of the echo-chamber cabal blinded by hate with hidden agendas and narratives to promote. Your tears are now liberal. Your opinion not to be listened to. You hate America, keep Blacks on a plantation of welfare, and hate the military. You're a wimp, a snowflake, and an unmanly manful man like the badasses who remain with Trump.

Oh, and fuck your feelings, you fag.

ABSOLUTELY NO POLITICS, PLEASE!

And hopefully there's enough of me to make a difference in this election.  

[crash_davis 23083]

39 minutes ago, CDAK said:

I think Trump's strategy was to be ultra aggressive and Joe would be so bamboozled that he would seem like a lost Alzheimer's patient on stage. That obviously didn't work. Joe stammered some but it didn't seem like he was completely lost. And any substance from Trump was lost due to his constant interrupting and bickering. 

Joe also seems to waffle on his policies, reiterating what someone said above not know what his policies are. He rather emphatically denounced the green new deal last night. His website states "Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face."  https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/

you're knock joe on argue specifics and platforms? what platform has trump revealed that he's running on, well besides being more of a racist piece of shit?

[bad_teammate 13132]

Is ANTIFA on Biden's "side"?

In what way or sense?

[Brisketexan 104557]

23 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Is JBJ trying to draw a moral equivalency between anti-facism and white supremacy?

I think I see problem. 

This is what they do:

White Supremacy: an idea that is immoral, offensive, and un-American ab initio.  Whether it is expressed peacefully or violently, it is abhorrent.  Period.

Antifascism: an idea that we fucking fought a war over, advancing that idea.  An idea that opposed fascist, state oppression.  And idea that CAN devolve into unmerited and inexcusable violence.  Kind of like being a fan of a sports team.  Not inherently bad, actually good, but bad when it descends into violence.

15 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Don't lose sight of what America is.  It is a much bigger idea than any one man.  We can be great again.  Not HIS version of great.  But history's version of great.  But we have got to put this guy as far in the rearview mirror as possible.

You can't be great until you wipe the shit off yourself.  And we are presently covered head to toe in shit, all while a huge chunk of us stands there, dripping in runny, putrid greenish brown shit, insisting that "WE LOOK AMAZING.  TREMENDOUS.  MORE HANDSOME THAN ANYONE HAS EVER SEEN!"  So, any voyage to greatness is going to be a long one.  REALLY long.

14 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Biden fucking condemned violence. He said "violence is never appropriate" and that anyone committing crimes should be prosecuted. What the fuck more do you want? What is wrong with you? Why are you insisting on equating anti-fascismism with white supremacy? Why are you misrepresenting facts? 

Because THAT. IS. WHAT. THEY. DO.  It's their #1 play.  They just fucking lie.  It's THE holy sacrament in the Church of Trumpism.

[Laga4 1270]

I feel so fucking smart after this debatacle for not voting for a Democrat or Republican since Richard Nixon.

These are two loser parties full of people that only help themselves and not the people they were elected to serve.  If you don't believe me just look at who was nominated to lead  the parties.  

We need a strong third party.

[CDAK 216]

2 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

you're knock joe on argue specifics and platforms? what platform has trump revealed that he's running on, well besides being more of a racist piece of shit?

I think Trump was awful. I already stated that. If it would satisfy you, I'm happy to state it each time I talk about an unrelated topic.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

2 minutes ago, Laga4 said:

I feel so fucking smart after this debatacle for not voting for a Democrat or Republican since Richard Nixon.

These are two loser parties full of people that only help themselves and not the people they were elected to serve.  If you don't believe me just look at who was nominated to lead  the parties.  

We need a strong third party.

i support your choice, person that cannot distinguish between the two people running for the presidency, to effectively remove yourself from deciding the winner.

[crash_davis 23083]

either he has parkinson's or he's trying to encourage melania to show him love that isn't there. 

show me love, bitch! hug me like that!

http://i.imhttps://i.imgur.com/zzL7iYA.gifvgur.com/zzL7iYA.gifv

 

[Sbbruin 21708]

4 minutes ago, Laga4 said:

I feel so fucking smart after this debatacle for not voting for a Democrat or Republican since Richard Nixon.

These are two loser parties full of people that only help themselves and not the people they were elected to serve.  If you don't believe me just look at who was nominated to lead  the parties.  

We need a strong third party.

[Kel Varnsen 8430]

1 hour ago, RDCanecutter said:

Born in Ireland, later joined the American Army.

I like that guy. Watch his tank videos all the time. 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Kel Varnsen

[Bat Guano 359]

Jesus, what a shitshow. I didn't have much to drink during the thing, but still woke up with a massive headache. If I was in Biden's place, I don't think I'd have been able to resist the impulse to walk over and punch Trump in the face.

He was a toddler on Adderall - fixated on one stupid idea, and wouldn't/couldn't shut the fuck up  no matter what the adults were talking about. Seriously, he must have doubled his usual dose; he was completely unhinged. After about 15 minutes I was wondering if it was over the top even for Trump supporters, but of course I know the answer to that - not even close: they wanted more WWE-style bullshit.

Yes, it will hurt Trump short term because it turned off voters who haven't made up their minds yet; but anyone who fits that description at this point is by definition an idiot, and they could swing back again; you can't underestimate stupidity or predict what it will do. Trump's strategy was to fire up the base, because that's the only strategy he can comprehend, and I'm sure he succeeded. Maybe that will make it close enough for the election-stealing apparatus to work. Take nothing for granted: we're in for a rough ride.

[Brisketexan 104557]

2 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I used to feel that way.

Then, we were presented with a choice that's a fucking existential threat to the country, and possibly humanity.

So, yeah, sometimes, the fucking choice is EASY.  Vote for the green alien that DOESN'T present that threat.

[Degenerate Gardner 4081]

58 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

 

I'm also more convinced than ever that Trump is capable of some unspeakable shit if he gets another four years.

Trump is capable of any horrors you can imagine, and some you can't. This is not hyperbole. 

[Laga4 1270]

4 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

If you don't think you are throwing your vote away by voting for one of those clowns then get after it.  

Change has to start somewhere.  

[Voldemort86 2259]

2 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

 

Haley stinks. She has no personality and will never be president. 

[Brisketexan 104557]

1 minute ago, Laga4 said:

If you don't think you are throwing your vote away by voting for one of those clowns then get after it.  

Change has to start somewhere.  

Change is great.  I'm all for it.  Change starts after we keep the ship from sinking to the bottom of the sea in minutes.  Keep the ship afloat -- that's the crisis we're dealing with at the moment.  Once we do that, then by all means, let's work on how best to steer it.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

2 minutes ago, Laga4 said:

If you don't think you are throwing your vote away by voting for one of those clowns then get after it.  

Change has to start somewhere.  

riddle me this: what is the most pressing threat to the continued republic?  and what is the most expedient manner to get rid of that threat?

[Degenerate Gardner 4081]

1 minute ago, Laga4 said:

If you don't think you are throwing your vote away by voting for one of those clowns then get after it.  

Change has to start somewhere.  

We should put an outsider millionaire celebrity in charge! You know, really shake up the system.

 

 

[wildcat09 29224]

15 minutes ago, Laga4 said:

I feel so fucking smart after this debatacle for not voting for a Democrat or Republican since Richard Nixon.

These are two loser parties full of people that only help themselves and not the people they were elected to serve.  If you don't believe me just look at who was nominated to lead  the parties.  

We need a strong third party.

The only way a third party will ever be viable is American politics is if we eliminate first-past-the-post elections. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

1 minute ago, Voldemort86 said:

Haley stinks. She has no personality and will never be president. 

i think there is a lot to work with there for the next round of republicans.  not going to turn away the base, and seems relatable to the burbs.  she'll be a real force.

[JBJ 3648]

 

19 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

And he did it. What is wrong with you? What do you think he should have done that he did not do?  

Biden: "Violence is never appropriate" and should be prosecuted. 

Trump: [to violent white supremacists] "stand down and stand by"

That's kind of like saying Trump said, "I want to see peace."

They both went out if their way to ignore/downplay/deny the actual violence from their base.

[Brisketexan 104557]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The only way a third party will ever be viable is American politics is if we eliminate first-past-the-post elections. 

And....this.  The math doesn't lie.  That's the only way we can get it done.  I'd support it.

[JBJ 3648]

47 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Is JBJ trying to draw a moral equivalency between anti-facism and white supremacy?

I think I see problem. 

No and fuck you.

[G650 14086]

Just now, JBJ said:

They both went out if their way to ignore/downplay/deny the actual violence from their base.

I'm genuinely curious what violence you believe centrist democrats are perpetrating.

 

[LTbear 4159]

2 hours ago, JBJ said:

That's like your opinion, man.  One violent idea has been a lot more visible recently than the other, the other has a long history within our borders.

They don't have to be the exact same to be similar.

What the two men said is not remotely similar or equivalent. We've explained this to you, you've continued to twist and squirm. Your bothsides-ism BS is really transparent.

Edited September 30, 2020 by LTbear

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

The cops that are beating and killing people in the streets are way more of a threat than antifa.  Why aren’t we condemning them? 

[workswithseed 2035]

19 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

And it's pure evil. It's all about being on guard against fascism and how to fight fascism's rise. 

Here's an answer to the question about White Supremecists having rights:

Scary stuff.

Fuck you.

I've never worrid about PB, but I have worried about the people who started a dumpster fire right in front of my place. Who dressed in black garb, and were saying that they were Antifa.

 

44 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Biden fucking condemned violence. He said "violence is never appropriate" and that anyone committing crimes should be prosecuted. What the fuck more do you want? What is wrong with you? Why are you insisting on equating anti-fascismism with white supremacy? Why are you misrepresenting facts? 

I mean Trump said that he said said he wasn't talking about Nazis and white supremacists, when he said good people on both sides.

[JBJ 3648]

5 minutes ago, LTbear said:

What the two men said is not remotely similar or equivalent. We've explained this to you, you've continued to twist and squirm. Your bothsides-ism BS is really transparent.

You guys hate the comparison for reasons unrelated to the debate topic.  I'm okay with someone coming up with a better comparison, but that hasn't happened.

What right-wing idea/extremism is more comparable?

[JimmyJames 12271]

31 minutes ago, Laga4 said:

I feel so fucking smart after this debatacle for not voting for a Democrat or Republican since Richard Nixon.

These are two loser parties full of people that only help themselves and not the people they were elected to serve.  If you don't believe me just look at who was nominated to lead  the parties.  

We need a strong third party.

Whatever. 
 

I see JBJ got assigned to be the thread troll this morning. Tough assignment. But he’s managing it. 

[Post Oak 20183]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Just one of the lowest points in American history.  No biggie.

For now.

[Brisketexan 104557]

1 minute ago, JBJ said:

You guys hate the comparison for reasons unrelated to the debate topic.  I'm okay with someone coming up with a better comparison, but that hasn't happened.

What right-wing idea/extremism is more comparable?

The fact that you think the idea of being anti-fascist is "extremist" pretty much takes any chance for intelligent conversation off the table.  The Venn diagram of anti-fascism is a big-ass circle of people who oppose fascist, oppressive state action - that has literally been a policy position of the United States for decades, it's not extremist.  There is a smaller circle WITHIN that larger one where violent extremists reside.

Whereas with White Supremacy....the whole circle is shitty.  Peaceful white supremacists suck shit through a straw - what they stand for is anathema to what it is to be American.  That's the fucking problem, man.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

1 minute ago, Post Oak said:

For now.

i think about this perspective all the time.

 

 

 

[DDD Dad 14250]

3 hours ago, JBJ said:

IT WAS A LENSING OF WHAT BIDEN SAID TO SHOW HOW SHITTY IT WAS.  IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SHITTY.

When you find yourself digging yourself into a hole, it's best to keep digging to get out.

[workswithseed 2035]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

The fact that you think the idea of being anti-fascist is "extremist" pretty much takes any chance for intelligent conversation off the table.  The Venn diagram of anti-fascism is a big-ass circle of people who oppose fascist, oppressive state action - that has literally been a policy position of the United States for decades, it's not extremist.  There is a smaller circle WITHIN that larger one where violent extremists reside.

Whereas with White Supremacy....the whole circle is shitty.  Peaceful white supremacists suck shit through a straw - what they stand for is anathema to what it is to be American.  That's the fucking problem, man.

Can anticom and antifa come together for get togethers, or do you think there might be a clash?