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2020 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES: Joe Biden vs Donald Trump

Mrs Whiggins

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bolverk

bolverk 30323

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Talking about transitioning away from crude when it is both abundantly plentiful (domestically) and very cheap is really silly. 

I'd agree it'd be silly if the burning of fossil fuels wasn't directly responsible for the Global Warming. Price and availability are not the only factors; moreover, renewables are increasingly competitive on price and even more abundant. In fact, their energy sources are endless.

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Sbbruin

I really don’t care what your political views are.  Personally, I would classify myself as a center right Republican if I had to put a label on it.  We need more fiscal responsibility than either part

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Bottlecap

Funny thing  is, I am a speech therapist, and what Biden has overcome as a stutterer is nothing short of heroic. It may present as bumbling or "dumb" but his strategies to see through dyslfluecies is

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Eastwood

Eastwood 4394

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My final take on the oil comment and those who are concerned about PA now...

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/where-our-oil-comes-from.php

PA doesn't even crack the top 15 in oil production. Also note that Democratic states CO, NM, IL, and CA all produce more oil than PA.

What PA does produce a lot of is natural gas. Joe came out and said he isn't banning fracking.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=46&t=8

This topic might be a rallying point for some, but I really don't think this moves the needle in a damaging way in PA. It certainly doesn't move the needle in NV, NC, GA, IA, WI, or AZ.

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achooloco

achooloco 1086

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Trump is obviously sharper on his feet than Biden. Biden struggled with losing his train of thought at times. Even the highlights for Joe that they showed on local news had mental lapses.  What were talking about, errr China. 

you know he has a stutter right? or are you having your own mental lapse right now?

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Storm the Field

Storm the Field 5366

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Here's my two cents no one likely gives a shit about:

I'm an oil and gas attorney, and Biden didn't say anything ground-breaking. I had conversations with colleagues earlier today talking about how our jobs likely won't exist in their current form within the next 10 years. Or at least, not anywhere near as many of them. Transition is happening whether we like it or not.

There's also a caricature of O&G people as being Trump die-hards that just doesn't comport with what I've observed over the years. I know shitloads of attorneys/engineers/middle management types that are center-left or traditional Bush/Romney GOP voters who think the Trump brand of Republicanism is a fucking cancer. Much like political demographics throughout the rest of American society, it tends to be proportional to level of degree attainment. 

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 6166

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

Bwhahahaha. Trump acts more normal but lies his ass off and Johnny Sack calls it a win. He fucking lied more than ever. hahahahaha

He lost because Biden did well too. He didn't lose his shit and he made it through, Johnny. That is all he had to do. So Biden fucking won because he connected with the people on keys points. Biden is a better man and it shows. Your guy is a fat fucking piece of shit. 

Also, he can't even be decent to his own fucking whore wife who does the best she can as his trophy to try to make his old ugly ass pass as human. What is this about, Johnny? Why is he so dismissive of her whore ass?! Huh?

 

You're underestimating the POTUS POS's message resonating with other POS.  The general public, however, may just be tired of bullying handicapped reporters and kids in cages this time around. And his message on Covid for the elderly to get fucked probably hasn't gone over well either.  What's DOTARD's health care plan for those that survive Covid but require repeat medical attention?   Will they have access to Walter Reed via chopper for a treatment cocktail?       

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Eastwood

Eastwood 4394

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1 minute ago, Storm the Field said:

I know shitloads of attorneys/engineers/middle management types that are center-left or traditional Bush/Romney GOP voters who think the Trump brand of Republicanism is a fucking cancer. Much like political demographics throughout the rest of American society, it tends to be proportional to level of degree attainment. 

Present.

But the Trump voters outnumber everyone else 10 to 1 in the man camps, service offices, and land offices.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9973

Posted
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Greener energy jobs are good jobs for those currently in the energy industry. Snap those jobs up when offered to you. The world needs energy - and energy workers who appreciate the important role of the environment in good living. Technologically, we are accelerating.

It's capitalism. You must adapt or get eaten. But it is a simple transition for energy workers to the future. It's still a big country with states full of inefficient energy systems. Retrofitting. Those energy systems demand great efficiency. Good for everyone and we regain our status as the world's dominant economy. We gotta show a little greatness in the next few years. Time to build. 

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Storm the Field

Storm the Field 5366

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

My final take on the oil comment and those who are concerned about PA now...

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/where-our-oil-comes-from.php

PA doesn't even crack the top 15 in oil production. Also note that Democratic states CO, NM, IL, and CA all produce more oil than PA..

Yeah, this might have sunk a candidate back in 2008 or 2012 when the Marcellus Shale was still viable and operators were blowing and going in PA/WV/OH. At this point, there are probably more people working any given Steelers game than actively involved in oil & gas exploration in PA. 

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 6166

Posted
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

Here's my two cents no one likely gives a shit about:

I'm an oil and gas attorney, and Biden didn't say anything ground-breaking. I had conversations with colleagues earlier today talking about how our jobs likely won't exist in their current form within the next 10 years. Or at least, not anywhere near as many of them. Transition is happening whether we like it or not.

There's also a caricature of O&G people as being Trump die-hards that just doesn't comport with what I've observed over the years. I know shitloads of attorneys/engineers/middle management types that are center-left or traditional Bush/Romney GOP voters who think the Trump brand of Republicanism is a fucking cancer. Much like political demographics throughout the rest of American society, it tends to be proportional to level of degree attainment. 

I guess the gamble is whether the public in petroleum driven states think Biden will try and make drastic changes immediately like they did for automotive emissions (wasn't quick but may seem so in retrospect). It's all about controlling the message which Republicans have always been able to do.  I don't know but I can tell you where Biden's next advertising dollars should go.  

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9973

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

I guess the gamble is whether the public in petroleum driven states think Biden will try and make drastic changes immediately like they did for automotive emissions (wasn't quick but may seem so in retrospect). It's all about controlling the message (advertising) which Republicans have always been able to do.  I don't know but I can tell you where Biden's next advertising dollars should go.  

Texas is in play. That's why they are speaking to the energy industry in Texas.

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burntorangebongos

burntorangebongos 10826

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I found out that my cousin's kid does wind turbine technician work and makes about $30 an hour plus decent benefits. This is hard work and she travels but that is good money for the way the economy is right now.  This is a vital industry that will only grow so I think she has a lot of upside in front of her. My point is there is decent money to be made in the renewables and Biden is right that there are very decent jobs to be had in this industry. 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9973

Posted
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6 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

I guess the gamble is whether the public in petroleum driven states think Biden will try and make drastic changes immediately like they did for automotive emissions (wasn't quick but may seem so in retrospect). It's all about controlling the message (advertising) which Republicans have always been able to do.  I don't know but I can tell you where Biden's next advertising dollars should go.  

There is nothing drastic about this brand of Democratic Party. If that is anyone's worry about the Biden Administration, ask a progressive. This will be a caretaker presidency. Right the ship. Get the systems working again. 2024 is the showdown.

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 34106

Posted
Posted
Just now, burntorangebongos said:

I found out that my cousin's kid does wind turbine technician work and makes about $30 an hour plus decent benefits. This is hard work and she travels but that is good money for the way the economy is right now.  This is a vital industry that will only grow so I think she has a lot of upside in front of her. My point is there is decent money to be made in the renewables and Biden is right that there are very decent jobs to be had in this industry. 

Saw three turbine blades on 183 heading back from liberty hill after having post vote sex with my lady, who's house sitting out there. Been seeing them more and more frequently.

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 6166

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

 

it's fine for GRHorn and I to disagree.That's what a democracy is. GRHorn defends the right-wing of the Republican party, and I happen to think you almost got to be like, a demented lunatic, but it's like...But it doesn't mean we don't respect each other's views, am I right?

 

https://on.wsj.com/2zX7Vqy

 

Except their opinions deliberately stomp on women's rights to choose, general education, separating families, a national healthcare mandate that could save tens of thousands of lives, voting rights, greenhouse gasses, federal aid for blue states/cities whose tax dollars are used to fund poor red economies, etc. Our disagreements are rhetorical while theirs destroys lives.  We can argue Biden's plans because he has plans--it's rhetorical.  Meanwhile 220,000 dead and growing are the direct result of an incompetent mismanagement of our nations resources.  That's reality.  Let GRH fuck himself if he enjoys getting screwed by the government.

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9973

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2 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

This is hard work and she travels

Congrats to her. Some beautiful country out here in the West. 

It works out East too. Tunneling and heavy industry will need to save energy through efficiency transportation systems. Those workers become needed and the nation benefits through efficiency.

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Storm the Field

Storm the Field 5366

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20 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

Present.

But the Trump voters outnumber everyone else 10 to 1 in the man camps, service offices, and land offices.

My first year in the industry, when I was doing field land work awaiting bar results, I always marveled at the old veterans billing $450/day to not do shit beyond drink coffee and bitch about that N-word in the WH that was taxing them to death. This was usually brought up in a conversation about how they needed a new outboard for their boat or a new generator for the RV at the deer lease.

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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 6166

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2 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

My first year in the industry, when I was doing field land work awaiting bar results, I always marveled at the old veterans billing $450/day to not do shit beyond drink coffee and bitch about that N-word in the WH that was taxing them to death. This was usually brought up in a conversation about how they needed a new outboard for their boat or a new generator for the RV at the deer lease.

Also sounds like your basic general contractor.  

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Voldemort86

Voldemort86 2259

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I’m surprised people aren’t talking about Trumps healthcare response where he says the word “ beautiful “ 10 different times and talks out of his ass. The guy doesn’t have a plan and he never did. Democrats need to hammer republicans all over the country on healthcare over the next week.

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elfenix

elfenix 34749

Posted
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I’m not gonna get into a global warming debate. I’ll just say that a shrinking but still large industry domestically and the jobs therein will trump global warming any day of the week when paired with the abundant nature of the resource and the cost. Particularly in this hurting economy. I’m just saying, there are more opportune times to have the renewables debate. Like, when oil is at $100/bbl and shalecos still aren’t really making money and being bailed out by a functioning A&D market.

And that will happen again, and sooner than people think. This industry was dead in ‘82, ‘86, and ‘99, and probably more dead than it is now. It then went on a 15-year run featuring $147 crude. Probably best to have that argument then, when, you know, it’s economic. 

thinking like this is why we've gone from 150+ years to fix the problem to 30.

Edited by elfenix
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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 6166

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Voldemort86 said:

I’m surprised people aren’t talking about Trumps healthcare response where he says the word “ beautiful “ 10 different times and talks out of his ass. The guy doesn’t have a plan and he never did. Democrats need to hammer republicans all over the country on healthcare over the next week.

We'll never hear the Dems message because DOTARD will say and get busted doing a dozen fucked up things over the next few weeks which will control the airwaves.  

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SameSame

SameSame 1752

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, DigDug said:

I did get a chuckle when Trump said he was the least racist person in the room.

 Then if that wasn’t absurd enough, this damn fool started scanning the audience apparently in an attempt to find somebody less racist.  wtf

 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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Posted
2 hours ago, zork said:

 

 I am one of those dim suburban female voters who supports Biden as I do not see Demian Brady and the RNC's "concern" over these statements as compared to the anti-science, pro-pollution candidate they are fronting. I do wish for a nation that supports 'transitioning' towards cleaner energy. We have put humans on the moon at what was a tremendous cost and now we're supposed to throw up our hands and say, "sorry, coal and oil until they're gone" even though it means our current President has opened up the ANWR, rewritten the Clean Water Act, and is allowing the state of Oklahoma to oversee tribal lands with respect to the EPA and pollution despite the SCOTUS ruling giving tribes authorities over their own land.

I'm not immune to the realities of our dependence upon fossil fuels, but doubling down on oil w/o a forward looking plan is not unlike how one ends up regarding the ruins of ancient civilizations and asking, what the hell happened? Instead of promoting the anti-vax, anti-science crowd, the country that raises its game on other energy sources and puts efforts into the young minds of its population will be the country that thrives.

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Voldemort86

Voldemort86 2259

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

 I am one of those dim suburban female voters who supports Biden as I do not see Demian Brady and the RNC's "concern" over these statements as compared to the anti-science, pro-pollution candidate they are fronting. I do wish for a nation that supports 'transitioning' towards cleaner energy. We have put humans on the moon at what was a tremendous cost and now we're supposed to throw up our hands and say, "sorry, coal and oil until they're gone" even though it means our current President has opened up the ANWR, rewritten the Clean Water Act, and is allowing the state of Oklahoma to oversee tribal lands with respect to the EPA and pollution despite the SCOTUS ruling giving tribes authorities over their own land.

I'm not immune to the realities of our dependence upon fossil fuels, but doubling down on oil w/o a forward looking plan is not unlike how one ends up regarding the ruins of ancient civilizations and asking, what the hell happened? Instead of promoting the anti-vax, anti-science crowd, the country that raises its game on other energy sources and puts efforts into the young minds of its population will be the country that thrives.

That’s the problem for Trump. How many of these suburban women really care that much about oil and gas? Besides a few in Texas. 

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bolverk

bolverk 30323

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Posted
2 hours ago, zork said:

 

I'm gonna guess you didn't bother to read the last few pages of this thread, because your drive-by "hot take" is just as out of context as that RNC tweet you're posting. You must be both lazy and a dimwit for thinking we hadn't already covered that response thoroughly.

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Voldemort86 said:

That’s the problem for Trump. How many of these suburban women really care that much about oil and gas? Besides a few in Texas. 

I care about the number of people who are dependent upon it for their career and the surrounding fields that also support the industry. That's not a small number. The President doesn't care about them. He cares about the money, he cares about exploiting countries like Ukraine (in a similar manner to Putin) with respect to dependence upon natural gas, etc. But to the extent that he actually cares about 'jobs' it is only something he says. Nothing he does, nor the GOP does reflects any concern or empathy. Foxconn in Wisconsin, Lordstown in Ohio? Empty shells for a taxpayer shell game that left citizens with no jobs and empty pockets. Money fuels the world but we are putting money into the pockets of short term thinkers. Dream big, fight hard.

 

 

Edit to add: in his dismantling of the USPS with the collusion of private industry executives such as DeJoy and his 'friends' on the USPS governing board (all Trump appointees), the conclusion that is impossible to ignore is that the goal is to privatize the mail service. It's not a company, it's a service. That action will create more cost to citizens and eliminate jobs there too. Not talked about by the GOP, all hush hush, but it is one argument I've had over and over again with my libertarian friends. We need the post office as a public service, warts and all. The GOP has slowly but surely trashed it. The NWS is next.

Edited by Mrs Whiggins
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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34648

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

It’s a cyclical industry as you know and tends to operate in very long term cycles. We are in about the 4th inning of a down cycle. We are in about 1992. Long-term, the oil industry is fine.  These hypothetical people (and I don’t believe they exist; I don’t think Biden’s comments will harm anything) are stupid because they were already voting for a person that’s the worst person ever, and he will unquestionably be worse for their industry than the other guy. 

Yes it's cyclical but there's zero doubt that oil will never be as large a percentage of energy consumption as it has been in the past. Raw total consumption? Yeah, that will go back up from where it is at this exact moment for sure.

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immamac

immamac 44346

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Posted

after sleeping on it the biggest haymaker that biden through last night that landed squarely and hard enough to knock trump down to the canvas for a short 3 count was his "Abraham Lincoln over here" comment. It was perfectly timed, delivered and had the right amount of oompf behind it to just totally stun him to the point where he didn't even know what just happened and started defending his record against abraham lincoln.

Seth Meyers Yes GIF by PeacockTV

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cactusflinthead

cactusflinthead 27627

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I'm gonna guess you didn't bother to read the last few pages of this thread, because your drive-by "hot take" is just as out of context as that RNC tweet you're posting. You must be both lazy and a dimwit for thinking we hadn't already covered that response thoroughly.

Yeah, pretty much. Drive by stupidity 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18321

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I’m not gonna get into a global warming debate. I’ll just say that a shrinking but still large industry domestically and the jobs therein will trump global warming any day of the week when paired with the abundant nature of the resource and the cost. Particularly in this hurting economy. I’m just saying, there are more opportune times to have the renewables debate. Like, when oil is at $100/bbl and shalecos still aren’t really making money and being bailed out by a functioning A&D market.

And that will happen again, and sooner than people think. This industry was dead in ‘82, ‘86, and ‘99, and probably more dead than it is now. It then went on a 15-year run featuring $147 crude. Probably best to have that argument then, when, you know, it’s economic. 

I feel like now is the perfect time to have the debate. The industry is hurting, so giving them an opportunity to transition to something that is growing and will be growing for the foreseeable future makes a ton of sense. 

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zork

zork 629

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I'm gonna guess you didn't bother to read the last few pages of this thread, because your drive-by "hot take" is just as out of context as that RNC tweet you're posting. You must be both lazy and a dimwit for thinking we hadn't already covered that response thoroughly.

I posted it mainly for the video of what was discussed, upthread, for those that didn't see it live. 

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18321

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, zork said:

I posted it mainly for the video of what was discussed, upthread, for those that didn't see it live. 

You posted a misleading "quote" hoping people were too lazy to listen to the video. He didn't say what it says he said. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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