2020 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES: Joe Biden vs Donald Trump

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

26 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

We think about charging stations in the wrong way, IMO.  Instead of waiting to charge at a station, it should be a simple battery swap.  The station can charge the old battery and give it to the next person.  Battery manufacturers can "own" all the batteries and refurbish or replace batteries for the stations as they go bad.

Part of this is standardizing battery tech across manufacturers. But manufacturers all had no problems getting behind standardizing fuel.

 

That's an interesting idea. Sort of how you swap out propane canisters at the local quickie mart. Is this your idea or are you yanking it from somewhere else?

Just to play devil's advocate, I'm trying to imagine the downsides here. A swap would require an attendant or attendants to do the swapping, adding to the cost (I'm sure all us manly men here wouldn't mind swapping their own batteries, but I can imagine a lot of people who wouldn't like the hassle).

Also, I imagine the battery, even with yet to be discovered advances in technology are going to be heavy.

[Mdhorn 5911]

6 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

The common clay of the new west

 

 

This isn't a group of undecided voters.  An elderly white male feels politically disenfranchised--boo hoo.  And Elizabeth states Joe Biden lied.  That's not an undecided voter.  This is bullshit.  Tasha doesn't think either candidate provides a future for her black male children.  Does she prefer cages or police shootings because that's a current policy that she can vote to extend. This is utter nonsense.   This isn't a true slice of America--there's 3 black and 11 white people but have to go with who answered their land line.   

[Guest Lobo]

I know it's cool to say "Nah man, I don't watch mainstream television shows...I'm so fucking hip."  I admit I did watch the first two seasons of 'the Apprentice.'  It was a novel concept, I was just getting into business myself and enjoyed trying to 'out-maneuver' the contestants from home.  But I completely lost interest after two seasons and I don't think I ever watched 5 minutes of it after that.  

That said, I had no fucking idea until I looked it up this morning.  That show lasted 14 seasons with Trump.  That's insane.  If you forced me to answer, I honestly would have guessed 9 or 10 seasons, at absolute most.  

So when people say Donald Trump is a failed businessman in almost every conceivable way, by every objective metric.  I need to remind them from now on, 'Yeah...but he had a gameshow that last 14 seasons.'  Network television is horrible in most respects, but one thing they don't do is keep money-pits on the for 14 seasons.  Trump's accidental game show success lasted far longer than his hotel profitability, his airline, his football team, his casinos, his real estate profitability, his steaks, his wine, his University, 2 of his 3 marriages, and the admiration of his children.  That's a damn impressive show.  

[Hiphopopotamos 20865]

4 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

That's an interesting idea. Sort of how you swap out propane canisters at the local quickie mart. Is this your idea or are you yanking it from somewhere else?

Just to play devil's advocate, I'm trying to imagine the downsides here. A swap would require an attendant or attendants to do the swapping, adding to the cost (I'm sure all us manly men here wouldn't mind swapping their own batteries, but I can imagine a lot of people who wouldn't like the hassle).

Also, I imagine the battery, even with yet to be discovered advances in technology are going to be heavy.

The Model S battery as currently constructed is 1200 pounds.  There is still some serious innovation that needs to happen before we are in a place where we can swap batteries.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

37 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

We think about charging stations in the wrong way, IMO.  Instead of waiting to charge at a station, it should be a simple battery swap.  The station can charge the old battery and give it to the next person.  Battery manufacturers can "own" all the batteries and refurbish or replace batteries for the stations as they go bad.

Part of this is standardizing battery tech across manufacturers. But manufacturers all had no problems getting behind standardizing fuel.

As a Tesla owner, 99% of charging is done at home.  Most people don't need more than 300 miles in a day.  Shit, most people go less than 100.  Thinking of charging like we do with gas stations is just not reality.

[Huckleberry 32694]

1 minute ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

The Model S battery as currently constructed is 1200 pounds.  There is still some serious innovation that needs to happen before we are in a place where we can swap batteries.

 

[Tuco 5076]

Just now, Mdhorn said:

An elderly white male feels politically disenfranchised--boo hoo.   

Well, the white male control on politics is being reduced, so I guess it makes sense he would feel disenfranchised, relatively speaking.  

It's not a coincidence that Republicans are talking about how democracy is not really a goal of the US.  If a big part of your base is worried about whites losing their majority status it's important to demonstrate some twisted rationalization where they can still dominate the political process. 

[GRHorn 105]

10 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

lol "sharper on his feet"

 

Biden doesn't lose his train of thought. He has a stutter. Like most stutterers, he knows when he's about to stutter, and adjusts by pausing and finding another word that he won't stutter when he says it. its a common coping mechanism. It looks like he's trying to remember a forgotten word.

Next to the word diarrhea coming from the insane orange clown, a pause is a blessing.

 

It’s very unfortunate that his stutter so closely resembles an old person struggling to find a word then. 

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

3 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

The Model S battery as currently constructed is 1200 pounds.  There is still some serious innovation that needs to happen before we are in a place where we can swap batteries.

 

(scoffing noise). Get me a chain hoist. I'll have that bitch swapped in ten minutes.

 

[Tuco 5076]

10 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Also, I imagine the battery, even with yet to be discovered advances in technology are going to be heavy.

I would also say that standardizing on the batteries, at this point, would really stifle innovation.  I want the car companies pushing that technology hard, and they wouldn't if batteries are fungible. 

[heso 2748]

1 hour ago, DCA_HORN said:

 

 

since nukes are off the table

 

Why is this?

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

@staboner?

[Herpa Derpa 6111]

2 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Taking politics and economics out of the equation (bear with me), it’s impossible to remove dependence on oil horses.  It’s not logistically possible. 

You are a visionary, no doubt.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

30 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

That's an interesting idea. Sort of how you swap out propane canisters at the local quickie mart. Is this your idea or are you yanking it from somewhere else?

Just to play devil's advocate, I'm trying to imagine the downsides here. A swap would require an attendant or attendants to do the swapping, adding to the cost (I'm sure all us manly men here wouldn't mind swapping their own batteries, but I can imagine a lot of people who wouldn't like the hassle).

Also, I imagine the battery, even with yet to be discovered advances in technology are going to be heavy.

I didn't get it from anywhere, but I'm sure someone has thought of it before.  It actually makes the most sense if we are looking for "refueling" times that are comparable to gas powered vehicles.

An attendant doesn't cost all that much.  NJ still has them for pumping gas and has lower fuel prices than neighboring states.  And if things are standardized, the battery swaps could be done by an automated process anyway.

Getting manufacturers to standardize completely may be impossible, but you could probably get them down to 3 or 4 platforms.  The big manufacturers have already shown themselves willing to work together, like with the Mazda 626 and Ford Probe.  So it wouldn't be a stretch to see stations ultimately end up with 2 options, "regular" and "Tesla" with Tesla becoming the diesel option that isn't available at every station.

It would also create the added benefit of upgrading every electric car on the road.  As new batteries get better while using the same form factor, cars already equipped for the swap will get to benefit from those longer lasting batteries as well.

The only real problem is determining responsibility when a battery dies.  If a station gives you a shitty battery and you go 20 miles and it dies, who pays for someone to bring you another battery?  The only way to make that work is if the battery manufacturer itself is on the hook for it.  There'd also need to be an agreement between station brands on using each other's batteries.

[Herpa Derpa 6111]

35 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

It’s very unfortunate that his stutter so closely resembles an old person struggling to find a word then. 

It's very unfortunate you continue to be a willfully ignorant shitbag.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321995

Top 3 devices to reduce stuttering:

1. Slow down

2. Avoid trigger words

3. Try mindfulness

 

I would suggest you take the 3rd tip to heart for your own edification, but then that would probably be too "librul der der" for you.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

40 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

As a Tesla owner, 99% of charging is done at home.  Most people don't need more than 300 miles in a day.  Shit, most people go less than 100.  Thinking of charging like we do with gas stations is just not reality.

I get that, but the current charging model makes road trips burdensome.  With a supercharger, you are looking at an hour.  Maybe you are someone who can accept sitting at a Turnpike rest area for an hour on a road trip as a long term solution, but most people will stick to a gas powered car exactly for this reason.  And if we want widespread adoption, we have to overcome the long haul problem.  It also doesn't work for people that drive for work.  A taxi that is sitting on the sideline charging is losing its owner money.

[Tuco 5076]

1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

As you know the skill transferability from exploiting crude to exploiting natural gas is damn near 100%, depending on your staff’s competence in a particular basin. So the nuance about the debate being about “oil” is irrelevant. 

Petro produces more than twice the amount of CO2 per kW-h than natural gas does.  (And that's in a power plant; cars are going to be worse.) From an environmental standpoint, it is massively relevant whether we are talking oil or gas. 

EIA.gov stats

[Michael Knight 12888]

58 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

This isn't a group of undecided voters.  An elderly white male feels politically disenfranchised--boo hoo.  And Elizabeth states Joe Biden lied.  That's not an undecided voter.  This is bullshit.  Tasha doesn't think either candidate provides a future for her black male children.  Does she prefer cages or police shootings because that's a current policy that she can vote to extend. This is utter nonsense.   This isn't a true slice of America--there's 3 black and 11 white people but have to go with who answered their land line.   

Lutz said most of the undecideds he's done have been former Trump voters who were undecided on if they should vote for Trump again.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

12 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

I get that, but the current charging model makes road trips burdensome.  With a supercharger, you are looking at an hour.  Maybe you are someone who can accept sitting at a Turnpike rest area for an hour on a road trip as a long term solution, but most people will stick to a gas powered car exactly for this reason.  And if we want widespread adoption, we have to overcome the long haul problem.  It also doesn't work for people that drive for work.  A taxi that is sitting on the sideline charging is losing its owner money.

For sure it's not a viable solution for people that drive for work.  But I will say that superchargers, especially the new version, you are looking at 20-30 min max for a full charge.  It's really not difficult to plan.  

[henrygandorf 29174]

5 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Lutz said most of the undecideds he's done have been former Trump voters who were undecided on if they should vote for Trump again.

yeah, dude was just on cnn and his trump outlook overall was pretty bleak. 

[SydneyCarton 47846]

 

7 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Lutz said most of the undecideds he's done have been former Trump voters who were undecided on if they should vote for Trump again.

I could have told you that from skipping around watching a few minutes. About 4 or so I saw were not even remotely "undecided." "Trumps a man on a mission!". "I didn't see any plans from Biden." Buuuullshit. 

1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

yeah, dude was just on cnn and his trump outlook overall was pretty bleak. 

What's this?

[Horndog 2218]

1 hour ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

So we've gone from "Global warming is a myth" to "Global warming may be happening but its caused by natural reasons" to "Humans may be partially responsible to Global warming but there is nothing we can do about it" to "The effects of stopping global warming would be worse than global warming itself" to "Now is not the time to talk about it." 

Progress I guess, except everyone of those statements were incorrect (or lies) when they were said, and are incorrect (or lies) now.

 

Then some day it will be "thoughts and prayers."

[henrygandorf 29174]

11 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

What's this?

luntz was on cnn. his outlook was not rosy. he explained these were not straight “undecideds”. 

[BrickHorn 18186]

5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

luntz was on cnn. his outlook was not rosy. he explained these were not straight “undecideds”. 

Not rosy for whom? Trump or the human race?

[TexasEd 8064]

12 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

This right here is on tape. This right here is an evil said out loud. Maybe republicans like Jeff Sessions and Rob Rosenstein thought this was good policy to deter immigration, but it was evil and this fucking clown was sold to do it and he is so dumb he says this out loud as if it is GOOD. If you are going to perpetrate evil to further your world view, don't include clueless transactional idiots in the plan, fuckers!!!!  This right fucking here is why they have to go:

 

 

Sorry but I heard "Go Ahead" as a response to the moderator's suggestion that they move to the next topic.

 

but he did deliver this message:

 

[TexasEd 8064]

1 hour ago, Tuco said:

I would also say that standardizing on the batteries, at this point, would really stifle innovation.  I want the car companies pushing that technology hard, and they wouldn't if batteries are fungible. 

Battery design should be independent at this point (commoditize later) but charging interfaces need better standards with upgrade paths.  Like USB 1.0 to 2 to 3 but every once in a while it will go to something like USB C.  Eventually we will probably have the equivalent of AA batteries for cars.

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

1 hour ago, Mdhorn said:

This isn't a group of undecided voters.  An elderly white male feels politically disenfranchised--boo hoo.  And Elizabeth states Joe Biden lied.  That's not an undecided voter.  This is bullshit.  Tasha doesn't think either candidate provides a future for her black male children.  Does she prefer cages or police shootings because that's a current policy that she can vote to extend. This is utter nonsense.   This isn't a true slice of America--there's 3 black and 11 white people but have to go with who answered their land line.   

 

jfc. Elderly white males are more enfranchised than literally any other segment of the population.

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19146]

3 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Logical for sure. I’m just saying it makes more economic sense to have it when oil is more expensive. Otherwise we are unnecessarily spending more $ in a terrible economy. 

Then again, spending money and increasing investment in a terrible economy is usually what helps end said terrible economy.  Or we could go with another failed tax cut for the billionaires.

[Fudge Nuggets 19146]

3 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

My son is interviewing for an attorney position with BP, so he did some research. They are committed to being carbon neutral by 2050, and have a clear plan on how to get there with benchmarks along the way. Oil companies know the writing is on the wall. There will always be a need for oil and petroleum products, but they also know alternative energy is inevitable. 

I'm sure their plan is similar to my company's plan and every other company's plan... talk in the abstract then pencil-whip the fuck out of the numbers to make it appear you're carbon neutral while nothing really changes.

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

29 minutes ago, Horndog said:

Then some day it will be "thoughts and prayers."

 

exactly, which is the end plan all along.

 

I rage emoted this post. I hope it was the right rage.

 

[Mdhorn 5911]

1 minute ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I'm sure their plan is similar to my company's plan and every other company's plan... talk in the abstract then pencil-whip the fuck out of the numbers to make it appear you're carbon neutral while nothing really changes.

Lipstick on a pig.  

['stache 21758]

And of course we're still talking about oil and not the batshit stuff that continues to come from the fat orange fuck. Do people seriously not care that he literally took pride in having a good relationship with Kim Jong Un? The human rights violator and a danger to all of southeast Asia? That Obama and Biden demanded that he denuclearize before any meeting and that trump is a weak af pushover who legitimized him without any preconditions? It's amazing how shit like this gets lost in the swamp of batshittery from this asshole and we're now talking about a benign comment about the need to expand renewable energy. This country is so fucked and it's pretty irredeemable at this point.

[Michael Knight 12888]

Trumps defense of children in cages was Biden built them

[elfenix 34171]

as with just about everything these days, china is already doing it:

 

 

[DDD Dad 14250]

4 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

I'm no poll or electorate junkie, but just anecdotally there's pushback even in rural Texas against O&G (or more specifically pipeline companies) from landowners and property rights advocates over imminent domain and accountability issues, even landowners who spent whole careers in O&G.

Yes but if you drive out towards Fredericksburg from Goldthwaite you'll see lots of Trump signs next to anti-wind farm signs.  

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

4 hours ago, Lobo said:

I know it's cool to say "Nah man, I don't watch mainstream television shows...I'm so fucking hip."  I admit I did watch the first two seasons of 'the Apprentice.'  It was a novel concept, I was just getting into business myself and enjoyed trying to 'out-maneuver' the contestants from home.  But I completely lost interest after two seasons and I don't think I ever watched 5 minutes of it after that.  

That said, I had no fucking idea until I looked it up this morning.  That show lasted 14 seasons with Trump.  That's insane.  If you forced me to answer, I honestly would have guessed 9 or 10 seasons, at absolute most.  

So when people say Donald Trump is a failed businessman in almost every conceivable way, by every objective metric.  I need to remind them from now on, 'Yeah...but he had a gameshow that last 14 seasons.'  Network television is horrible in most respects, but one thing they don't do is keep money-pits on the for 14 seasons.  Trump's accidental game show success lasted far longer than his hotel profitability, his airline, his football team, his casinos, his real estate profitability, his steaks, his wine, his University, 2 of his 3 marriages, and the admiration of his children.  That's a damn impressive show.  

The reality show lasted 14 seasons (5 fewer than that Kardashian trash show).

You lost interest at about the same time as half of the viewers did as well. In fact he had to pivot to the celebrity angle after his 4th year to try and goose ratings. They rose slightly but continued to decline until it was cancelled. He did attempt to reclaim all of the attention by getting rid of the celebrities in the 10th season which led to the worst ratings for the entire series run.

Assuming he learned anything from this expect to see Gary Busey, Meatloaf, and Jose Canseco in the cabinet if Trump manages to steal a second term.

[Hagbard Celine 10751]

7 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Taking politics and economics out of the equation (bear with me), it’s impossible to remove dependence on oil.  It’s not logistically possible. 

by 2030, germany will only use oil for:

jet A

plastics

logistically is not the right word

[Fud 9545]

It was fascinating this morning to read the Rivals MB debate thread, which is a conservative echo chamber, and then reading this thread, which seems to be either an anti-Trump or a liberal echo chamber. 

I'm a conservative Trump voter, but I'll keep reading this board to challenge my worldviews on various topics 

[Brisketexan 104557]

1 minute ago, Fud said:

I'm a conservative Trump voter,

Quoted for oxymoron.

[Huckleberry 32694]

1 minute ago, Fud said:

It was fascinating this morning to read the Rivals MB debate thread, which is a conservative echo chamber, and then reading this thread, which seems to be either an anti-Trump or a liberal echo chamber. 

I'm a conservative Trump voter, but I'll keep reading this board to challenge my worldviews on various topics 

If you're a Trump voter then you're not really conservative. Just the make it up as you go American version of "conservative."

[Fud 9545]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Quoted for oxymoron.

 

7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

If you're a Trump voter then you're not really conservative. Just the make it up as you go American version of "conservative."

Alrighty then 

[Huckleberry 32694]

List Trump and the Trump Administration's conservative qualities and policies. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Huckleberry

[Chooky 13302]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

List Trump and the Trump Administration's conservative qualities. 

Uh, how about the massive expansion of executive power and almost tripling the national debt?  Wait.  Dangit!

[Dbeasy 14963]

It was fascinating this morning to read the Rivals MB debate thread, which is a conservative echo chamber, and then reading this thread, which seems to be either an anti-Trump or a liberal echo chamber. 
I'm a conservative Trump voter, but I'll keep reading this board to challenge my worldviews on various topics 

I respect the hell out of your recruiting thread posts and would suggest you really delve into your historical conservative bent and examine what the Republican party and Trump are really doing and how they are really acting, vs the rhetoric they use. I used to lean slightly right but after really digging into facts I’m what you would call a dismayed voter who has lost confidence in the party.

[ndawg 1242]

I figure "conservative Trump voter" is code for "I want to preserve the way I imagine America to be."

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

3 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

List Trump and the Trump Administration's conservative qualities and policies. 

Haha trick question, it’s conservative b/c Trump does it and owns the libs.

[Huckleberry 32694]

2 minutes ago, Chooky said:

Uh, how about the massive expansion of executive power and almost tripling the national debt?  Wait.  Dangit!

Perhaps it's the big government limitation of the free flow of goods (by tariff) and labor (immigration policy) to the detriment of the economy.

As you allude to, there is a laundry list of proof that Trump is nowhere near conservative. The only "conservative" thing about him is that he has an R next to his name in America. 

Not even lowering taxes is conservative if it's accompanied by a budget expansion. It's fiscally reckless, not conservative. 

[Fud 9545]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

List Trump and the Trump Administration's conservative qualities and policies. 

He's not close to an ideal candidate for me, and while I lean conservative, I'm not a conservative on every issue, especially social issues. I didn't realize I was going to have to explain where I land on all policies to justify why I voted for Trump, but my vote for Trump is mostly against voting against the DNC; I'm a conservative who voted for Trump, but that doesn't mean I think Trump is necessarily a conservative on most issues. 

[Biff Tannen 45491]

[hayden_horn 11360]

2 minutes ago, ndawg said:

I figure "conservative Trump voter" is code for "I want to preserve the way I imagine America to be."

this is exactly it. 

there's this fucking comic book idea of what america supposedly was. it's superman's america, where everyone is white, and the good guys are pretty clearly delineated from the bad guys, and superman is always there to make everything right. 

trump is their superman. he's their comic book hero. they don't look past his red tie and his (R). 

truth, justice, and the american way is an illusion that people who still call themselves conservative cloak themselves with.