2020 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES: Joe Biden vs Donald Trump

[washparkhorn 9934]

2 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

we have no national plan

No national Covid plan is enough for any rational human being to vote the son-of-a-bitch out of office.

[Bookman 4610]

4 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Yeah, you might want to go back to the kiddie table, Spanky.

I stopped reading after "I’m far too dumb to be able to shed any light on polls."

[SizzleChest 8275]

Just now, washparkhorn said:

No national Covid plan is enough for any rational human being to vote the son-of-a-bitch out of office.

This is so obviously the election this year.  He buttfucked COVID so horribly, it's effectively "ANYBODY BUT TRUMP".  Even Jimmy Carter had an even share of the electorate going into the last debate with Reagan.  Trump blew his incumbent advantage capital in April, and has continued to hemorrhage since.

[Fudge Nuggets 19144]

23 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

He’s not only going to be wrong but so wrong that he will have to get on Fox News claiming the election was obviously rigged due to 10 million illegals all voting for Biden.

Cool.  Since Hillary supposedly had 3MM illegals vote for her it looks like the GOTV campaign is working.

[hayden_horn 11360]

4 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

No national Covid plan is enough for any rational human being to vote the son-of-a-bitch out of office.

the thing that really bothers me is the lack of protection for businesses. we had the early forgivable loans, but that was fucking it. that and the stimulus that would pay most people's rent for one month. 

he really thought this shit would just go away without any mitigation. we didn't need to weld people into apartment buildings to flatten our curve, but we did need some actual fucking leadership. we are an industrial titan. when we choose, we can write the fucking story. he chose inaction in a fallacious sort of show of strength. he thought he was projecting strength by not wearing masks, and just saying that america would magically defeat this thing. well, we fucking haven't, and things are getting worse, and people like fud are all "yeah, but i'll still vote for him."

[Bullneck 18983]

1 hour ago, Fud said:

I disagree with more of the DNC's policies more than I disagree with Trump's, I'm concerned about the potential ending of the filibuster, adding more DNC favorable voting states like DC, and SCOTUS packing, and I hated the hostile Kavanaugh hearings, impeachment, and other DNC shenanigans. Also, I'm a reservoir engineer, and much of my company's land is federal, so we probably do under if federal fracking is banned, and I'm out of a job. 

How do you feel about taxation without representation?  

[Fud 9545]

9 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

why do you think the majority of those people would have still died?

 

Regarding specifically the deaths and not the Covid economic policies, we have a similar death rate to much of western Europe (Spain, UK, Italy). So I don't think most of these deaths are on Trump, because I think there would have been a high death rate regardless of what he could reasonably do. I think it's likely that there's an incremental amount that he's responsible for. 

 

[Bullneck 18983]

1 hour ago, Fud said:

Three things that stand out with Trump (there are more, but I'm winging it here)

1) Overdoing tariffs (I'm fine with it as a geopolitical tool against China)

2) Overspending, covid relief aside, which I think was warranted

3) Just being an unlikable idiot in general, although I think he's hilarious at times 

Regarding the DNC, things like the Kavanaugh hearings, impeachment, and wasting time and money on the Russia scandal pissed me off, but more than anything I think the DNC is moving further left, and I don't like the potential for them to pack SCOTUS, get rid of the filibuster, and add more states to the union 

You're too stupid to be here.  

Maybe you really do belong on the recruiting board.  

[immamac 42513]

@Fud no offense, but have you ever read a piece of legislation in your life? You may want to start there instead of some of the articles that you have linked. 

CNN is just as dangerous as some of the sites you are reading, some here will disagree. You seem like you are trying to think about this pragmatically. I want to invite you to read some of these policies and official statements and documents that have been prepared by the party you are defending. I don't think you'd vote for them if you read the legislation. 

[Bullneck 18983]

1 hour ago, Fud said:

You say that #4 is the only reason I voted for Trump, but neglected my first sentence. 

What are your primary policy issues that lead you to vote for Biden? 

He takes climate change seriously.  

[Huckleberry 32694]

5 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

How do you feel about taxation without representation?  

Are they Democrats? 

Love ya @Fud

[Fud 9545]

2 minutes ago, immamac said:

@Fud no offense, but have you ever read a piece of legislation in your life? You may want to start there instead of some of the articles that you have linked. 

CNN is just as dangerous as some of the sites you are reading, some here will disagree. You seem like you are trying to think about this pragmatically. I want to invite you to read some of these policies and official statements and documents that have been prepared by the party you are defending. I don't think you'd vote for them if you read the legislation. 

I'm game 

[immamac 42513]

I'd also love to hear your thoughts on the Unitary Executive Theory while you are doing some of your homework into real policy and tell me how appropriate it is to have one of its biggest scholarly proponents as the Attorney General of the United States. 

I really do want people like you to continue posting in here as I think some non group think is really good, but you are parroting some pretty digested talking points and opinions. 

[Fud 9545]

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

@Fud no offense, but have you ever read a piece of legislation in your life? You may want to start there instead of some of the articles that you have linked. 

CNN is just as dangerous as some of the sites you are reading, some here will disagree. You seem like you are trying to think about this pragmatically. I want to invite you to read some of these policies and official statements and documents that have been prepared by the party you are defending. I don't think you'd vote for them if you read the legislation. 

With no recruiting to follow, I have plenty of newfound free time 

[Bullneck 18983]

50 minutes ago, Fud said:

I thought this article was interesting

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/how-trump-might-be-winning/

Really?  Why?

[SizzleChest 8275]

2 minutes ago, Fud said:

Regarding specifically the deaths and not the Covid economic policies, we have a similar death rate to much of western Europe (Spain, UK, Italy). So I don't think most of these deaths are on Trump, because I think there would have been a high death rate regardless of what he could reasonably do. I think it's likely that there's an incremental amount that he's responsible for. 

 

I don't think you can reasonably claim incremental responsibility for what was in actuality a complete failure of leadership.  Most people focus on the obvious stuff he said or did, but like hayden stated, it's the abject failure to leverage the full power of the federal government that is where he completely bricked it.  You can't incrementalize the effect, so how can you rationally incrementalize his responsibility?  

And, FYI - none of the ideological reasons will fly here.  There have been plenty of successful public-private partnerships in combatting national threats, but Trump kept fucking chicken after chicken on that front.

[hornmpa96 2598]

7 minutes ago, Fud said:

Regarding specifically the deaths and not the Covid economic policies, we have a similar death rate to much of western Europe (Spain, UK, Italy). So I don't think most of these deaths are on Trump, because I think there would have been a high death rate regardless of what he could reasonably do. I think it's likely that there's an incremental amount that he's responsible for. 

 

We are the 9th worst country in the world for per-capita death rates. I guess that’s our standard.

[Biff Tannen 45491]

22 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Yeah, you might want to go back to the kiddie table, Spanky.

Reminds me of when I came in here a few years back for the first time, armed with a Paul Krugman article. That didn’t go well. 

[Bullneck 18983]

6 hours ago, 'stache said:

And of course we're still talking about oil and not the batshit stuff that continues to come from the fat orange fuck. Do people seriously not care that he literally took pride in having a good relationship with Kim Jong Un? The human rights violator and a danger to all of southeast Asia? That Obama and Biden demanded that he denuclearize before any meeting and that trump is a weak af pushover who legitimized him without any preconditions? It's amazing how shit like this gets lost in the swamp of batshittery from this asshole and we're now talking about a benign comment about the need to expand renewable energy. This country is so fucked and it's pretty irredeemable at this point.

Never forget:

[Fud 9545]

2 minutes ago, SizzleChest said:

I don't think you can reasonably claim incremental responsibility for what was in actuality a complete failure of leadership.  Most people focus on the obvious stuff he said or did, but like hayden stated, it's the abject failure to leverage the full power of the federal government that is where he completely bricked it.  You can't incrementalize the effect, so how can you rationally incrementalize his responsibility?  

And, FYI - none of the ideological reasons will fly here.  There have been plenty of successful public-private partnerships in combatting national threats, but Trump kept fucking chicken after chicken on that front.

I'm arguing that most of the ~224,000 deaths aren't directly his fault, and I agree that Trump has done a poor job overall with the Covid handling. Unless people think that Trump could have pulled off the type of numbers that Germany was able to do, then I suppose it would make sense that he's directly responsible for most of those deaths. 

[Biff Tannen 45491]

1 minute ago, Bullneck said:

Never forget:

I did forget and I feel bad. That was just heart breaking. 

[Bullneck 18983]

4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Reminds me of when I came in here a few years back for the first time, armed with a Paul Krugman article. That didn’t go well. 

Fortunately this place has gotten more enlightened.  (actually, it was TOS that was full of shitheads)

[Bullneck 18983]

Just now, Fud said:

I'm arguing that most of the ~224,000 deaths aren't directly his fault, and I agree that Trump has done a poor job overall with the Covid handling. Unless people think that Trump could have pulled off the type of numbers that Germany was able to do, then I suppose it would make sense that he's directly responsible for most of those deaths. 

Interesting angle.  I thought the US was #1 in everything, including pandemic response.  We did pretty well with ebola and SARS.  So what changed?

[SydneyCarton 47836]

Jesus. You fucking people. @Fud rolls in here, reads this thread, and volunteers that he found it interesting and that he would keep reading for new ideas to challenge his assumptions. And you guys literally can’t get out of your way to try and rip out his throat. 
 

it’s a Friday night and I’m scrolling through and in the span of the 20 minutes I put my phone down I come back to “47 new messages.” I don’t even know how to describe this behavior. It’s literally like jade showing up and a bunch of thirsty dipshits falling all over themselves trying to get a piece. I realize the migration of chicken sandwich and Johnny Sack and maninblack from this forum have left you guys blue of balls and hard up as hell for someone to crush, but this is the wrong dude, you clowns. 
 

everyone here is smart enough and recognizes the fact that most younger people identify with their parents and surrounding politics of their youth. I’ve been that guy. Half the fucks here were that guy a few short years ago. Looking at you, @hayden_horn. Yet when another young guy shows up with intellectual curiosity everyone falls all over themselves to show their fucking asses. Maybe next time don’t force someone to drink straight from the fire hydrant...
 

[Dahobbs 17420]

18 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

You're too stupid to be here.  

Maybe you really do belong on the recruiting board.  

That seemed unnecessary. I mean, we are all assholes, but he seems to be honestly engaging and not just trolling. He really just hasn't considered his beliefs in any detail, that much is clear. 

[SydneyCarton 47836]

21 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

You're too stupid to be here.  

Maybe you really do belong on the recruiting board.  

Fuck off with this trash comment. 

[Bookman 4610]

How low would you go to own the libs? Would you vote for someone with Down's syndrome?

[jimmyjazz 45538]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

4 is the real and only reason you voted for Trump. You're worried about your bank account. The end.

Actually, we had a post of the year contender spell this out the other day.  It's not the bank account, it's the status quo (i.e., whiteness).  Certainly some minorities who are in the upper reaches of income might feel the same way, but let's not kid ourselves:  the vast majority of Trump supporters, while perhaps not explicitly "racist", are terrified of the demographic shift that is not only underway but cannot be stopped.

[Fud 9545]

2 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Interesting angle.  I thought the US was #1 in everything, including pandemic response.  We did pretty well with ebola and SARS.  So what changed?

Are those two events very comparable to the current one? If I'm looking at the correct data, it looks like ebola killed less than a thousand people globally, and SARs around 11,300

[Fud 9545]

1 minute ago, Bookman said:

How low would you go to own the libs? Would you vote for someone with Down's syndrome?

That would be all time ownage, so yes 

[SizzleChest 8275]

13 minutes ago, Fud said:

I'm arguing that most of the ~224,000 deaths aren't directly his fault, and I agree that Trump has done a poor job overall with the Covid handling. Unless people think that Trump could have pulled off the type of numbers that Germany was able to do, then I suppose it would make sense that he's directly responsible for most of those deaths. 

The US's handling was much more like Brazil and Sweden than any other EU country.  We can go through and look at the 7-day average case count charts to confirm.

And, it wasn't a competition with Germany, UK, Italy, but Trump kept tossing out that the US should be fairly compared to those countries - that was a bullshit talking point.  

It was about leadership failure on multiple policy fronts, public health, economic, etc..  Trump played the denial game, politicized public health, and punched the economy in the face after COVID shot it in the leg.  

Edited October 24, 2020 by SizzleChest

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Don’t forget about how Trump sold out the Kurds and left them to get slaughtered. 

[Bullneck 18983]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

That seemed unnecessary. I mean, we are all assholes, but he seems to be honestly engaging and not just trolling. He really just hasn't considered his beliefs in any detail, that much is clear. 

My patience is pretty thin.  The truth is there for anyone willing to see it.  

If you guys want to take the time to try to open his eyes, go for it.  Seems like there's usually one troll around at all times.  

[SydneyCarton 47836]

4 minutes ago, Bookman said:

How low would you go to own the libs? Would you vote for someone with Down's syndrome?

I’m sorry, sir, are you saying a man with Downs can’t be president? That’s not very enlightened. 

[Bullneck 18983]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Fuck off with this trash comment. 

I think dahobbs is more eloquent than you. 

[Bookman 4610]

Just now, SydneyCarton said:

I’m sorry, sir, are you saying a man with Downs can’t be president? That’s not very enlightened. 

No of course they can. I mean, look at Donald Trump.

[SydneyCarton 47836]

1 minute ago, Bullneck said:

My patience is pretty thin.  The truth is there for anyone willing to see it.  

If you guys want to take the time to try to open his eyes, go for it.  Seems like there's usually one troll around at all times.  

Fud isn’t a troll. When he starts trolling it will be obvious and you can be your normal charming self. 

1 minute ago, Bullneck said:

I think dahobbs is more eloquent than you. 

I don’t think, I know. Eloquence has never really been my thing here.

[SydneyCarton 47836]

1 minute ago, Bookman said:

No of course they can. I mean, look at Donald Trump.

See!?! Common ground!

[Bullneck 18983]

3 minutes ago, Fud said:

Are those two events very comparable to the current one? If I'm looking at the correct data, it looks like ebola killed less than a thousand people globally, and SARs around 11,300

 

The CDC says it was more than what you found (by a factor of 10).  1 death in the US (in Dallas, IIRC).  

Did it occur to you that maybe something the government did might have helped?

Quote

Countries with Widespread Transmission and other Countries Affected During the Epidemic

Country	Total Cases (Suspected, Probable, Confirmed)	Total Deaths
Spain	1	0
United Kingdom	1	0
United States	4*	1
Total	28,652	11,325

 

[Jatrain 288]

14 minutes ago, Fud said:

I'm arguing that most of the ~224,000 deaths aren't directly his fault, and I agree that Trump has done a poor job overall with the Covid handling. Unless people think that Trump could have pulled off the type of numbers that Germany was able to do, then I suppose it would make sense that he's directly responsible for most of those deaths. 

Pubs love “American Exceptionalism” but when it comes to the US doing the thing other countries do well (Covid response, Universal Healthcare, Education, etc) it’s always just too hard/not possible. 

[Biff Tannen 45491]

The reason Ebola didn’t kill more people is because the United States stepped up and fucking led like we should. We sent doctors and military to Africa and stopped that fucking outbreak in its tracks. 

[immamac 42513]

11 minutes ago, Fud said:

Are those two events very comparable to the current one? If I'm looking at the correct data, it looks like ebola killed less than a thousand people globally, and SARs around 11,300

So I think you are looking for data to support your position instead of doing your homework, seriously educate yourself on the legislation, then understand how the executive branch is supposed to carry it out. 

The President doesn't make law, he signs it into law and makes sure it is properly enacted. 

 

[washparkhorn 9934]

24 minutes ago, Fud said:

I'm arguing that most of the ~224,000 deaths aren't directly his fault, and I agree that Trump has done a poor job overall with the Covid handling. Unless people think that Trump could have pulled off the type of numbers that Germany was able to do, then I suppose it would make sense that he's directly responsible for most of those deaths. 

The buck has to stop at the President's desk for the national Covid response. He failed - horribly. From the Brookings Institute:

"The country-specific data on unemployment rates and virus cases/deaths for each individual country . . . show the following:

• The unemployment rate increase of 6.6 percentage points in the U.S. between January and July is the largest of any high-income country in the OECD;
• Total per capita virus cases are higher in the U.S. than in any other wealthy OECD country, and total deaths per capita here are higher than in all but four; and
• The new per capita caseload is the highest in the US except for two other OECD countries, while new deaths per capita are highest in the U.S. except for one (Israel).

In sum, the partial recovery of U.S. labor markets in the late spring and summer, and more recent trends in virus cases and deaths, do not change the fundamental fact that was apparent in my earlier brief: both U.S. employment and health outcomes during the pandemic have been worse than what we find in virtually all other high-income countries around the world.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/covid-outcomes-update-health-and-employment-impacts-in-the-us-compared-to-other-countries/

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

@Fud was me in my 20s. A really cringeworthy reminder. 

[GRHorn 105]

8 hours ago, Herpa Derpa said:

It's very unfortunate you continue to be a willfully ignorant shitbag.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321995

Top 3 devices to reduce stuttering:

1. Slow down

2. Avoid trigger words

3. Try mindfulness

 

I would suggest you take the 3rd tip to heart for your own edification, but then that would probably be too "librul der der" for you.

He had largely eliminated it throughout his adult life. Now it’s resurfacing. Why would that be?

[SizzleChest 8275]

12 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

The buck has to stop at the President's desk for the national Covid response. He failed - horribly. From the Brookings Institute:

"The country-specific data on unemployment rates and virus cases/deaths for each individual country . . . show the following:

• The unemployment rate increase of 6.6 percentage points in the U.S. between January and July is the largest of any high-income country in the OECD;
• Total per capita virus cases are higher in the U.S. than in any other wealthy OECD country, and total deaths per capita here are higher than in all but four; and
• The new per capita caseload is the highest in the US except for two other OECD countries, while new deaths per capita are highest in the U.S. except for one (Israel).

In sum, the partial recovery of U.S. labor markets in the late spring and summer, and more recent trends in virus cases and deaths, do not change the fundamental fact that was apparent in my earlier brief: both U.S. employment and health outcomes during the pandemic have been worse than what we find in virtually all other high-income countries around the world.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/covid-outcomes-update-health-and-employment-impacts-in-the-us-compared-to-other-countries/

 

Yeah, those UE disparities don't really shock me.  However, I think a lot of it is more structural for the US compared to other countries.  Our hospitality and gig economies are super easy targets to be 60-90% pummeled when an economic shock arrives.

Edited October 24, 2020 by SizzleChest

[SizzleChest 8275]

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

He had largely eliminated it throughout his adult life. Now it’s resurfacing. Why would that be?

You should humble yourself and go to a Stutterers Anonymous meeting.  They'll explain why to you, while completely soaking you in spittle for your forbearance.

Edited October 24, 2020 by SizzleChest

[JimmyJames 12271]

53 minutes ago, Fud said:

Regarding specifically the deaths and not the Covid economic policies, we have a similar death rate to much of western Europe (Spain, UK, Italy). So I don't think most of these deaths are on Trump, because I think there would have been a high death rate regardless of what he could reasonably do. I think it's likely that there's an incremental amount that he's responsible for. 

 

So he just killed a few thousand people instead of hundreds of thousands. I mean we are only talking incrementally. 
 

If you are a real person who is still voting for Trump you sure are one evil ignorant son of a bitch.

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

He had largely eliminated it throughout his adult life. Now it’s resurfacing. Why would that be?

Because you are a troll asshole?

[27-25 2040]

1 hour ago, Fud said:

I don't think Trump has handled Covid particularly well. I also think a majority of those people would have still died barring a SE Asian type of mitigation policy, which I'm not sure would have flown in the US 

Authoritarian lockdowns were not necessary to save thousands.  Using the live Coronavirus YouTube feed let's compare ourselves to Canada.  Numbers rounded a bit.

United States - 229k deaths, 700 per million population

Canada - 10k deaths, 260 per million population

Canada is not a SE Asian authoritarian regime that mandated a total draconian lockdown.  What they did have was a leader who did not fight against medical authorities in his country at every step of the way, fuel conspiracy theories, pressure local leaders to reopen prematurely, host super spreader events and push quack "cures", some of which directly lead to deaths that won't even be accounted for in the COVID-19 fatalities (i.e. death by bleach or Hydroxychloroquine).

Canada is not THAT different than the US.  If we could have just approached this as well as they have we'd have perhaps 120,000+ Americans who are not dead right now.  That delta, I feel, can be laid on the shoulders of one person in particular.  That alone makes him unworthy of the office he holds.