2020 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES: Joe Biden vs Donald Trump

[jimmyjazz 47176]

4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

You said “if you think Trump is in any way redeemable than you are not”. You didn’t say it had anything to do with job qualification or anything else- simply that anyone who believed in the possibility of redemption for trump placed themselves beyond redemption. 
I’m suggesting that within every human being exists the possibility for redemption- a thought and ethos shared almost universally amongst religious figures, philosophers and students of humanity. You are consigning anyone whom believes in the universal possibility of redemption for all to be basically human refuge. 
If that’s not what you meant- cool- but that’s what you said, why I quoted you and why I responded how I did. 

Ugh.  What a hypothetical beating.

Trump has proven he is not redeemable.  Sure, on his deathbed, he MIGHT see the light, but he was damn closer than most of us have ever been just a couple of weeks ago and he clearly learned nothing.

Sometimes you just need to call an evil shitbag an evil shitbag.

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 34104]

Referring to Wulaw's last barrage of bullshit:

Hmm, i referred to a specific person and you're applying false logic to all of humanity. I don't think we have a dialog here. There are no absolutes. Not everyone is good. Not everyone is bad. There is a spectrum of in betweens. Trump is a moronic narcissistic who has no business being president. He is a compromised person beholden to himself, money, and family. In that order. He gives not even a rat's fuck about you. But you already knew that. You just wanted to throw out some semantic theoretical bullshit because you think that's entertaining. Cool, be entertained. Meanwhile I'll keep worrying about my existence. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Longhorn_Fan68

[Dahobbs 18318]

9 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Lol at you calling the orthopod the “real doctor”. If you know, you know. 

I actually didn't say. But I guess you're admitting to be the pretend one. 

[Hagbard Celine 11241]

5 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Look at Germany‘s land area. Then look at China, India, and the U.S. You’re holding the world to a standard that is impossible; the Germans are better at everything and have (relatively) little land.

The United States has led the world in technologies we want to own for the past 150 years.  Wealth polarization and lawcap (lawyer capitalism) are responsible for our abdication of multiple industries (manufacturing) that the rona has shown are actually critical to National Security.  But in aerospace+, computing, intelligence, media, no one comes close.

Your landmass argument is inverted.  The deutsche have to build windfarms offshore.  We could produce enough electricity for the entire western hemisphere within the lower 48.

I highly endorse Bucky Fuller and his seminal tome Critical Path.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Path_(book)

[GRHorn 105]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

I actually didn't say. But I guess you're admitting to be the pretend one. 

You can say that but we all know what you meant. (Almost) nobody here sticks up for me. 

[SizzleChest 8314]

3 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

You can say that but we all know what you meant. (Almost) nobody here sticks up for me. 

And that's well-earned.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34104]

6 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

You can say that but we all know what you meant. (Almost) nobody here sticks up for me. 

[TexasEd 8266]

11 minutes ago, MoJames said:

You are assuming Trump is human.

Trump isn't but the people he lashes out at are human so ad hominin applies.

[Wulaw Horn 19595]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Ugh.  What a hypothetical beating.

Trump has proven he is not redeemable.  Sure, on his deathbed, he MIGHT see the light, but he was damn closer than most of us have ever been just a couple of weeks ago and he clearly learned nothing.

Sometimes you just need to call an evil shitbag an evil shitbag.

 

Cool. That’s not what he said though. If that was what he said I’d have made no mention of it. I’ve called Trump all manner of horrible things for going on 5 years now. I don’t disagree at all with the sentiment. Whatever. I won’t mention it again.

just a thought man- have you considered putting me on ignore?  
I really seem to bother you (like- perhaps my very existence) you pretty much find something to take issue with in every one of my posts even if it’s pretty distorted how you play it back, and you don’t seem to enjoy the experience at all. If you don’t enjoy the content I create on here why consume it?  
Doesn’t matter much to me but literally everytime you quote me you are angry or talk about it being a beating and you really don’t have to do that to yourself. 
just a thought. Have a nice evening and weekend. 

[DDD Dad 14648]

I see it as keeping the party who represents the majority of the population from gaining control. 

FIFY

[jimmyjazz 47176]

In what medical heirarchy is an orthopod low on the totem pole?  Am I missing something here?

I mean, it's not like he's a dermatologist.  

[jimmyjazz 47176]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Cool. That’s not what he said though. If that was what he said I’d have made no mention of it. I’ve called Trump all manner of horrible things for going on 5 years now. I don’t disagree at all with the sentiment. Whatever. I won’t mention it again.

just a thought man- have you considered putting me on ignore?  
I really seem to bother you (like- perhaps my very existence) you pretty much find something to take issue with in every one of my posts even if it’s pretty distorted how you play it back, and you don’t seem to enjoy the experience at all. If you don’t enjoy the content I create on here why consume it?  
Doesn’t matter much to me but literally everytime you quote me you are angry or talk about it being a beating and you really don’t have to do that to yourself. 
just a thought. Have a nice evening and weekend. 

Don't flatter yourself.  You're a proxy for all kinds of people we see in our daily lives who, with appropriate levels of concern, find ways to skirt the truth and ultimately get just a little too close to advocation of Donald Trump.  You post, I'll respond, at least once in awhile.  Perhaps you should be the one putting me on ignore if I bother you that much.

[GRHorn 105]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

In what medical heirarchy is an orthopod low on the totem pole?  Am I missing something here?

I mean, it's not like he's a dermatologist.  

They’re high on the totem pole financially, but actually know little about medicine, generally. They (He) will even admit it. 

[Wulaw Horn 19595]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Don't flatter yourself.  You're a proxy for all kinds of people we see in our daily lives who, with appropriate levels of concern, find ways to skirt the truth and ultimately get just a little too close to advocation of Donald Trump.  You post, I'll respond, at least once in awhile.  Perhaps you should be the one putting me on ignore if I bother you that much.

You don’t man. I don’t follow you around making comments all the time about what a beating you are. Glad to see you are getting something out of it. Enjoy. 

[Mole 4339]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

In what medical heirarchy is an orthopod low on the totem pole?  Am I missing something here?

I mean, it's not like he's a dermatologist.  

You call yourself lifesaver. I call you pimple popper MD!

[Biff Tannen 46164]

14 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

In what medical heirarchy is an orthopod low on the totem pole?  Am I missing something here?

I mean, it's not like he's a dermatologist.  

Pimple Popper MD!

Edited October 24, 2020 by Biff Tannen
Mole beat me by like two seconds

[UTDD 362]

5 hours ago, Fud said:

Three things that stand out with Trump (there are more, but I'm winging it here)

1) Overdoing tariffs (I'm fine with it as a geopolitical tool against China)

2) Overspending, covid relief aside, which I think was warranted

3) Just being an unlikable idiot in general, although I think he's hilarious at times 

Regarding the DNC, things like the Kavanaugh hearings, impeachment, and wasting time and money on the Russia scandal pissed me off, but more than anything I think the DNC is moving further left, and I don't like the potential for them to pack SCOTUS, get rid of the filibuster, and add more states to the union 

I give you credit for at least engaging with a very difficult environment I think if you have some conservative leanings.  I have some conservative leanings as well, and am coming from the perspective that in 2016, I would have considered voting for ANYONE over Hillary Clinton.  (nothing to do with policy, she gives me a visceral and negative gut feeling that she is just not who I want to entrust the country to at all,  and this is far beyond politics, only Ted Cruz has also made me react that way prior...and now Trump gives me that feeling)   Trump also was a little more of an unknown in 2016, and there were red flags, but I think I can easily see that some voters would take a chance on Trump versus Clinton.

I'd say for myself the three worst things off the top of my head Trump has done (and thus he has lost my vote) are the following:

1) Diminished the dignity of the President as the leader of the country.  For many people, this might not matter, but for me, I kind of would like the leader of our country to act in a way where children have an easy time admiring the person, even if they disagree 100% with their politics.  I have no problem saying that priors like Obama or George Bush never ever in my mind damaged the actual office even though their politics are very different.  People focus on the racial stoking and dog whistles, but I notice a lot more that so many things coming out of his mouth are outright lies.  Most politicians lie and stretch the truth and such, but this is quite unique to me.

2) Trying to expand executive power (I have this same problem with Democrats too) in a way I don't like, as I favor a much more limited executive branch for certain functions in our government.  I don't mind the idea that nothing happens - even at the expense of short-term gain - if a larger body of elected officials can't get something done versus a smaller concentration of power.  

3) The COVID response - A lot of what transpired is just hard to defend -- you really can look at specific moments and what did and didn't happen and just scratch your head.

I'll be very transparent and say the issues I am tagged conservative here would be 1) guns 2) business/personal taxes and small business regulation and 3) national defense/military issues.   I can admit I am much more a social liberal "country club" type on business/fiscal policies.

Definite not conservative leanings would be 1) abortion 2) trying to use religious freedom to discriminate and/or leech it into not separating church and state 3) favor a public health care option (but probably not in favor of a universal plan ONLY without other options) and 4) favor path to citizenship for immigrants given a set of clear rules to do so (no serious crimes and other benchmarks to show they would be a productive citizen)

 

[Herpa Derpa 6343]

5 hours ago, GRHorn said:

He had largely eliminated it throughout his adult life. Now it’s resurfacing. Why would that be?

Go fuck yourself, you worthless sack of shit.

[honolulu horn 6227]

2 hours ago, UTDD said:

I give you credit for at least engaging with a very difficult environment I think if you have some conservative leanings.  I have some conservative leanings as well, and am coming from the perspective that in 2016, I would have considered voting for ANYONE over Hillary Clinton.  (nothing to do with policy, she gives me a visceral and negative gut feeling that she is just not who I want to entrust the country to at all,  and this is far beyond politics, only Ted Cruz has also made me react that way prior...and now Trump gives me that feeling)   Trump also was a little more of an unknown in 2016, and there were red flags, but I think I can easily see that some voters would take a chance on Trump versus Clinton.

I'd say for myself the three worst things off the top of my head Trump has done (and thus he has lost my vote) are the following:

1) Diminished the dignity of the President as the leader of the country.  For many people, this might not matter, but for me, I kind of would like the leader of our country to act in a way where children have an easy time admiring the person, even if they disagree 100% with their politics.  I have no problem saying that priors like Obama or George Bush never ever in my mind damaged the actual office even though their politics are very different.  People focus on the racial stoking and dog whistles, but I notice a lot more that so many things coming out of his mouth are outright lies.  Most politicians lie and stretch the truth and such, but this is quite unique to me.

2) Trying to expand executive power (I have this same problem with Democrats too) in a way I don't like, as I favor a much more limited executive branch for certain functions in our government.  I don't mind the idea that nothing happens - even at the expense of short-term gain - if a larger body of elected officials can't get something done versus a smaller concentration of power.  

3) The COVID response - A lot of what transpired is just hard to defend -- you really can look at specific moments and what did and didn't happen and just scratch your head.

I'll be very transparent and say the issues I am tagged conservative here would be 1) guns 2) business/personal taxes and small business regulation and 3) national defense/military issues.   I can admit I am much more a social liberal "country club" type on business/fiscal policies.

Definite not conservative leanings would be 1) abortion 2) trying to use religious freedom to discriminate and/or leech it into not separating church and state 3) favor a public health care option (but probably not in favor of a universal plan ONLY without other options) and 4) favor path to citizenship for immigrants given a set of clear rules to do so (no serious crimes and other benchmarks to show they would be a productive citizen)

 

Disagree with some of your stuff, but it's a breath of fresh air to have someone cogently and calmly present their position and arguments. Pos rep. 

[SydneyCarton 49486]

6 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

In what medical heirarchy is an orthopod low on the totem pole?  Am I missing something here?

I mean, it's not like he's a dermatologist.  

Fun fact. Dermatologists typically are like the top of their medical classes. They’re often the smartest and got the best grades. It’s hard to become a dermatologist because you make a fuck ton of money and the job has minimal stress and minimal hours. At least, this is what a lot of other doctors have told me. 

[BradInATX 9208]

I'm sorry i just really have trouble with anyone who is OK with trump, period. I don't care if they were born yesterday or are the oldest person alive; if you think trump is in any way redeemable, you aren't. 

I find if I put myself in the mindset of someone who thinks Trump is a shit heel but not actually a danger to the future of our governance, I can at least semi-understand the viewpoint of someone like Fud or Wulaw.

 

I think that mindset is wildly incorrect and that Trump is dangerous. But if you aren't there, it's pretty easy to see how he becomes the lesser of two evils in some people's minds. If you think Trump is mostly a harmless clown, you can get to a decision to vote for him without being a shitty racist person. And as much as we call Trump voters racist hicks (a favorite pastime of mine), there are lots of people like that out there. They're not flying Trump flags on their truck but they see him as the lesser of two evils and are not terrible xenophobic cunts

They're just wrong, but that's OK.

 

[Sawbonz 28219]

7 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Lol at you calling the orthopod the “real doctor”. If you know, you know. 

What do you call to orthopods looking at an EKG

 

double blind study 

[Sawbonz 28219]

7 hours ago, TexasEd said:

I agree with most of your message but you loose when you go with ad hominin attacks.  You're no better than Trump when you do that.

I’m not personally responsible for > 100k dead and orphaning 550 children already suffering the trauma of being refugees. But yeah I agree with trump on fuck your feelings at this point. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

9 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Yeah this is nuisance shit. As long as trump is gone IDGAF

Voting out the figurehead is priority number one, no argument there. However, going back to the civil service executive order I disagree that it is a simple nuisance.

Trump is easily manipulated by those who know his weaknesses and IMO not unlike the long game being played out with respect to appointing judges up and down the courts, the breadth and depth of the destruction and dismantling by the behind the scenes operatives is setting America up to be a democracy/republic in name only. Like the elections in countries such as Belarus or Ukraine or Russia or specific South American countries. Anywhere that elections are held where the opposition can be held at bay through a variety of means such as voter suppression, intimidation, legal rulings, imprisonment of dissent, and so on. Dividing the states into red and blue normalizes the idea of a broken up CCCP where the smaller countries are at the mercy of Putin and friends who plunder the resources and subject the citizens to a repressive miserable existence. You may think, hey no big deal, it's only Alabama or New York or whatever; I don't live there, but look across the ocean at what is going on there. It can happen here. It really can.

Systematically and thoroughly, those holding the seat of power in this Administration have:

 

Taken the USPS and methodically crippled it to the point of a limping shadow of its former capability for distributing goods and communication to the public. Appointed a board (all from the private shipping industry) overseeing the post office, who then named as Postmaster General Louis DeJoy, a man whose former company held a noncompetitive contract with the postal service during which time an audit later revealed millions of dollars may have been overbilled and the PG at the time later "retired" due to fraud allegations. DeJoy has close ties with Cohen and Broidy, fine upstanding citizens that they are. A twofer dismantling that has affected both elections and distribution, paving the way for privatization. The latest news has DeJoy's former company receiving a $5 million dollar contract from USPS and guess who still has shares in the company?

Taken the Bureau of Land Management and placed at its head a man who believes climate change is 'junk science,' opposes federal ownership of land (is president of a public interest law firm that advocates for the sale of all federal land), and opposes the Endangered Species Act. Until the land can be sold, he has put in place plans for mining and drilling on those lands. After a lawsuit was filed that his 'acting' appointment was a side step to going through the appointment process, he has refused to step down.

Taken the EPA and quietly dismantled protections for former president Obama's Clean Power Plan by replacing it with the ACE rule (still being hashed out in court, I think?), dropped prosecutions for violating the Clean Water Act by half as well as rewriting the Act that minimizes federal regulation of waterways and leaves many rivers and lakes vulnerable.

Taken the NIH, the number two institute in the world (behind Haaavawd) for biomedical research and thrown it under the bus. It has 27 different institutes and centers under its umbrella. Picture those employees as being subject to the EO discussed earlier as well as the pro evangelical, anti science, political identifier magnifying glass through which public servants must now be viewed. The CDC, also underneath Health and Human services as the NIH is, has seen its employees (such as Dr. Messioner back in February) placed at the forefront of the politicization of public health and safety.

I could go on and list the Department of Education, HHS, Homeland Security, the USDA, the IRS, the Treasury, the DoD, etc and it is only by the grace of a Sharpie and an act of God/Mother Nature that the appointment of Accuweather head, Barry Meyers to the NWS was put on hold. Barry, similar to DeJoy, wishes to monetize weather forecasts by taking the NWS offline and as recently as last year had to apologize for suggesting the NWS was limited in capability and that Accuweather provided a better product.

It is with the DOJ, the Senate, SCOTUS that make the bulwark of the inroads by the dark money groups that fund these agents. By smashing the norms held by officeholders, they are setting the stage for the return in 2024 should this November loosen their hold. The voter turnout has me slightly more optimistic, but as  @Voldemort86 has occasionally peppered his posts with Harry Potter references, I think of the seven book series as a cautionary tale in that the Death Eaters bided their time until their leader reappeared whole once more.

Voting is priority number one, but constant vigilance is priority number two. The people can have enormous willpower when motivated. I see that motivation, but there is still an undercurrent of admiration for these dark forces (racism, oppression, authority, misogyny, etc) and that is a problem with a part of the populace. It's been discussed on here before, what to do about it (and them), and I have no answers. We simply must, we simply have to address our flaws and keep our republic moving towards a better future or the idea of a 250 year old United States much less a 300 year old United States will not happen.

Sorry this is so dark, I am in a mood this morning. I think I'd better get outside and enjoy some nature for a spell.

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

Fun fact. Dermatologists typically are like the top of their medical classes. They’re often the smartest and got the best grades. It’s hard to become a dermatologist because you make a fuck ton of money and the job has minimal stress and minimal hours. At least, this is what a lot of other doctors have told me. 

A dermatologist is the main reason I am still alive so I'm a fan.

[SimonBolivar 11064]

9 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Pimple Popper MD!

Skin cancer!

[Sawbonz 28219]

14 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Voting out the figurehead is priority number one, no argument there. However, going back to the civil service executive order I disagree that it is a simple nuisance.

Trump is easily manipulated by those who know his weaknesses and IMO not unlike the long game being played out with respect to appointing judges up and down the courts, the breadth and depth of the destruction and dismantling by the behind the scenes operatives is setting America up to be a democracy/republic in name only. Like the elections in countries such as Belarus or Ukraine or Russia or specific South American countries. Anywhere that elections are held where the opposition can be held at bay through a variety of means such as voter suppression, intimidation, legal rulings, imprisonment of dissent, and so on. Dividing the states into red and blue normalizes the idea of a broken up CCCP where the smaller countries are at the mercy of Putin and friends who plunder the resources and subject the citizens to a repressive miserable existence. You may think, hey no big deal, it's only Alabama or New York or whatever; I don't live there, but look across the ocean at what is going on there. It can happen here. It really can.

Systematically and thoroughly, those holding the seat of power in this Administration have:

 

Taken the USPS and methodically crippled it to the point of a limping shadow of its former capability for distributing goods and communication to the public. Appointed a board (all from the private shipping industry) overseeing the post office, who then named as Postmaster General Louis DeJoy, a man whose former company held a noncompetitive contract with the postal service during which time an audit later revealed millions of dollars may have been overbilled and the PG at the time later "retired" due to fraud allegations. DeJoy has close ties with Cohen and Broidy, fine upstanding citizens that they are. A twofer dismantling that has affected both elections and distribution, paving the way for privatization. The latest news has DeJoy's former company receiving a $5 million dollar contract from USPS and guess who still has shares in the company?

Taken the Bureau of Land Management and placed at its head a man who believes climate change is 'junk science,' opposes federal ownership of land (is president of a public interest law firm that advocates for the sale of all federal land), and opposes the Endangered Species Act. Until the land can be sold, he has put in place plans for mining and drilling on those lands. After a lawsuit was filed that his 'acting' appointment was a side step to going through the appointment process, he has refused to step down.

Taken the EPA and quietly dismantled protections for former president Obama's Clean Power Plan by replacing it with the ACE rule (still being hashed out in court, I think?), dropped prosecutions for violating the Clean Water Act by half as well as rewriting the Act that minimizes federal regulation of waterways and leaves many rivers and lakes vulnerable.

Taken the NIH, the number two institute in the world (behind Haaavawd) for biomedical research and thrown it under the bus. It has 27 different institutes and centers under its umbrella. Picture those employees as being subject to the EO discussed earlier as well as the pro evangelical, anti science, political identifier magnifying glass through which public servants must now be viewed. The CDC, also underneath Health and Human services as the NIH is, has seen its employees (such as Dr. Messioner back in February) placed at the forefront of the politicization of public health and safety.

I could go on and list the Department of Education, HHS, Homeland Security, the USDA, the IRS, the Treasury, the DoD, etc and it is only by the grace of a Sharpie and an act of God/Mother Nature that the appointment of Accuweather head, Barry Meyers to the NWS was put on hold. Barry, similar to DeJoy, wishes to monetize weather forecasts by taking the NWS offline and as recently as last year had to apologize for suggesting the NWS was limited in capability and that Accuweather provided a better product.

It is with the DOJ, the Senate, SCOTUS that make the bulwark of the inroads by the dark money groups that fund these agents. By smashing the norms held by officeholders, they are setting the stage for the return in 2024 should this November loosen their hold. The voter turnout has me slightly more optimistic, but as  @Voldemort86 has occasionally peppered his posts with Harry Potter references, I think of the seven book series as a cautionary tale in that the Death Eaters bided their time until their leader reappeared whole once more.

Voting is priority number one, but constant vigilance is priority number two. The people can have enormous willpower when motivated. I see that motivation, but there is still an undercurrent of admiration for these dark forces (racism, oppression, authority, misogyny, etc) and that is a problem with a part of the populace. It's been discussed on here before, what to do about it (and them), and I have no answers. We simply must, we simply have to address our flaws and keep our republic moving towards a better future or the idea of a 250 year old United States much less a 300 year old United States will not happen.

Sorry this is so dark, I am in a mood this morning. I think I'd better get outside and enjoy some nature for a spell.

A dermatologist is the main reason I am still alive so I'm a fan.

The point at hand was executive orders on the way out the door, not the shit he has done in the last 4 years

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Putting together a Trump worst top 3 is an impossibility for me. I try to do it then found myself thinking “how can I leave out these other 15 things? They deserve a spot.”

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

7 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

The point at hand was executive orders on the way out the door, not the shit he has done in the last 4 years

Correct, but IMO they are tied to each other in a corporate raider strategy that is not for the benefit of the public.

[A-Tex Devil 2499]

3 hours ago, BradInATX said:

I find if I put myself in the mindset of someone who thinks Trump is a shit heel but not actually a danger to the future of our governance, I can at least semi-understand the viewpoint of someone like Fud or Wulaw.

 

I think that mindset is wildly incorrect and that Trump is dangerous. But if you aren't there, it's pretty easy to see how he becomes the lesser of two evils in some people's minds. If you think Trump is mostly a harmless clown, you can get to a decision to vote for him without being a shitty racist person. And as much as we call Trump voters racist hicks (a favorite pastime of mine), there are lots of people like that out there. They're not flying Trump flags on their truck but they see him as the lesser of two evils and are not terrible xenophobic cunts

They're just wrong, but that's OK.

 

Yeah. I get that mindset too.  That is my dad’s mindset.  We have given him no quarter the last several weeks. I made him watch Totally Under Control.  He agrees and acknowledges what happened with Covid.   I played him Gillum’s take on DeSantis and said it applies to Trump and Trump wears it like a badge of honor.  He knows.   But he is incapable as of voting dem and says he just won’t vote for president.  Which I am skeptical of, of course.  
 

People like this......

 

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by A-Tex Devil

[Sbbruin 22143]

I took the “I’m abstaining from voting for President” route in 2016.  I couldn’t bring myself to vote for either.  But not this time.  Trump IS a danger to our democracy.  And if he has no consequences for his actions in a second term, who knows what he’s capable of doing.

[Thatguy 9362]

3 hours ago, BradInATX said:

I find if I put myself in the mindset of someone who thinks Trump is a shit heel but not actually a danger to the future of our governance, I can at least semi-understand the viewpoint of someone like Fud or Wulaw.

 

I think that mindset is wildly incorrect and that Trump is dangerous. But if you aren't there, it's pretty easy to see how he becomes the lesser of two evils in some people's minds. If you think Trump is mostly a harmless clown, you can get to a decision to vote for him without being a shitty racist person. And as much as we call Trump voters racist hicks (a favorite pastime of mine), there are lots of people like that out there. They're not flying Trump flags on their truck but they see him as the lesser of two evils and are not terrible xenophobic cunts

They're just wrong, but that's OK.

 

  Man, you are a better man than me B. I cannot get there at all. The amount of damage this clown has down in just short of 4 years is astounding. Everything from the world view of this country, to something as simple as how we interact with one another has been affected. Most of us posting have been alive for somewhere around 40 years I am guessing, give or take. I am sure not a single one of us has ever had this many arguments with friends and loved ones over politics, or seen the country this divisive. I have lost more people this year than I have the last 20 due to arguments over this shit.

  But the real issue for me is how people cannot see the most basic issues. We wildly cut taxes. Deficit and debt ballooning, and it's not even war time. Don't care. 91% turnover under Trump, showing he is loading the seats with his cronies. Don't care. Meeting complex issues with simpleton anecdotes that my 12 year old would come up with. Don't care. Not understanding the simple idea that the alliances the US has are a fence line for the two biggest threats in the world, and we shouldn't hurt our relationships with those countries. Do not care. Talking about Eugenics and Racehorse theory on national TV and in front of people at a rally? Still do not care.

   I cannot unsee these people, friends or not. They are forever tarnished in my eyes, and it will be difficult for me to look at them as intelligent going forward. First time I have ever thought that in reference to politics.

 

[Dahobbs 18318]

2 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

  Man, you are a better man than me B. I cannot get there at all. The amount of damage this clown has down in just short of 4 years is astounding. Everything from the world view of this country, to something as simple as how we interact with one another has been affected. Most of us posting have been alive for somewhere around 40 years I am guessing, give or take. I am sure not a single one of us has ever had this many arguments with friends and loved ones over politics, or seen the country this divisive. I have lost more people this year than I have the last 20 due to arguments over this shit.

  But the real issue for me is how people cannot see the most basic issues. We wildly cut taxes. Deficit and debt ballooning, and it's not even war time. Don't care. 91% turnover under Trump, showing he is loading the seats with his cronies. Don't care. Meeting complex issues with simpleton anecdotes that my 12 year old would come up with. Don't care. Not understanding the simple idea that the alliances the US has are a fence line for the two biggest threats in the world, and we shouldn't hurt our relationships with those countries. Do not care. Talking about Eugenics and Racehorse theory on national TV and in front of people at a rally? Still do not care.

   I cannot unsee these people, friends or not. They are forever tarnished in my eyes, and it will be difficult for me to look at them as intelligent going forward. First time I have ever thought that in reference to politics.

 

I feel like you're not giving your 12 year old enough credit. 

[Captainant 28536]

8 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I took the “I’m abstaining from voting for President” route in 2016.  I couldn’t bring myself to vote for either.  But not this time.  Trump IS a danger to our democracy.  And if he has no consequences for his actions in a second term, who knows what he’s capable of doing.

I'm guilty of this as well, I voted for Johnson in 2016 because I was convinced my vote didn't matter in Texas 

...

Well, that and I REALLY don't like HRC lol. Gotta learn from our mistakes right?

[Thatguy 9362]

8 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

I took the “I’m abstaining from voting for President” route in 2016.  I couldn’t bring myself to vote for either.  But not this time.  Trump IS a danger to our democracy.  And if he has no consequences for his actions in a second term, who knows what he’s capable of doing.

This!! and it needs to be repeated.

   This time around Trump had to appease the masses for reelection. Second term Trump is more dangerous than first term Trump.

[GW Hayduke 1957]

15 hours ago, Fud said:

Regarding the DNC, things like the Kavanaugh hearings, impeachment, and wasting time and money on the Russia scandal pissed me off, but more than anything I think the DNC is moving further left, and I don't like the potential for them to pack SCOTUS, get rid of the filibuster, and add more states to the union 

Just an observation but if these are your actual concerns with the Democratic Party, it is rather apparent you have been captured by right-wing culture war propaganda.  

My recommendation is to reflect on your information bubble and takes steps to diversify the sources of information you expose yourself to while increasing your general understanding of media. In this day and age with social media, it is important to take a deliberate and focused look at this in order to be an informed voter. Being an informed voter is your duty as a citizen. If you conclude you aren’t an informed voter, you should abstain from this election.

Some easy steps: Delete your Facebook and twitter accounts.  I also recommend you brush up on the basics of journalism, like the difference between news and editorials and how many sources blur those two together. Make an effort to understand how algorithms push consumers down rabbit holes on certain sites (e.g., YouTube.).  Finally, fold in some easy nonbiased sources, like PBS’ Newshour, which is 50 minutes a day and available for free to stream. 

[hayden_horn 11402]

15 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Jesus. You fucking people. @Fud rolls in here, reads this thread, and volunteers that he found it interesting and that he would keep reading for new ideas to challenge his assumptions. And you guys literally can’t get out of your way to try and rip out his throat. 
 

it’s a Friday night and I’m scrolling through and in the span of the 20 minutes I put my phone down I come back to “47 new messages.” I don’t even know how to describe this behavior. It’s literally like jade showing up and a bunch of thirsty dipshits falling all over themselves trying to get a piece. I realize the migration of chicken sandwich and Johnny Sack and maninblack from this forum have left you guys blue of balls and hard up as hell for someone to crush, but this is the wrong dude, you clowns. 
 

everyone here is smart enough and recognizes the fact that most younger people identify with their parents and surrounding politics of their youth. I’ve been that guy. Half the fucks here were that guy a few short years ago. Looking at you, @hayden_horn. Yet when another young guy shows up with intellectual curiosity everyone falls all over themselves to show their fucking asses. Maybe next time don’t force someone to drink straight from the fire hydrant...
 

i will take the criticism, but i never called him a big dummy, i don't think. for me, it was just the timing of the thing, friday afternoon, wrapping things up, wife doing her remote grad school, kids playing fallout, and me surfing this thread. i will say, i wasn't trying to rip out his throat. i want more of the people who left this place to come back and try and defend this administration. luckily, hopefully, in a couple of weeks, that will be academic, and hopefully that group of posters who left for dt pastures will come back and engage on biden's presidency.

[Hagbard Celine 11241]

16 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

On china -  the move away from China started under Obama and Trump wisely stuck to that plan.

China owns 93% of all rare-earth minerals.

China is the #2 owner of US debt behind the nips - China owns $1T+, 15% of our total debt.

20% of all imports to the US are from China.

A move away from China requires:

A repaired and exponentially accelerated US economy that can catch up to and surpass the currently accelerating Chinese economy (4.9% yoy growth 20Q3, yes this summer):  3? 4? years

Untangle our supply chains, reshore what we can and rebuild our manufacturing capacity at a "loss" (i.e. cash investment) by the 1%:  10 years at apollo/manhattan levels

Source asteroids for rare earths and move them to a safe accessible orbit (for rare earths): it's up to Musk and apollo/manhattan-type funding.  2040? 2050?

Commtech hardware requires rare earths.  Like OPEC in the 70s, the Chinese need the west to nom nom nom those products, but we can't move away from China until that problem is solved.  Fortunately, there's a huge supply in the asteroid belt.

In the short term, the Chinese could dump our debt, crash the dollar, and fuck us hard.  The only ones who can solve that are the 1%.

[jimmyjazz 47176]

2 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

China is the #2 owner of US debt behind the nips -

Ummm . . .

[Biff Tannen 46164]

10 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

hopefully that group of posters who left for dt pastures will come back and engage on biden's presidency.

Yeah I’m sure that would go well

[Bevo14 8468]

1 hour ago, Sbbruin said:

I took the “I’m abstaining from voting for President” route in 2016.  I couldn’t bring myself to vote for either.  But not this time.  Trump IS a danger to our democracy.  And if he has no consequences for his actions in a second term, who knows what he’s capable of doing.

He was the same dangerous moron 4 years ago. I don't understand how so many of you talked yourselves into thinking otherwise back then.

[hayden_horn 11402]

32 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Yeah I’m sure that would go well

i would really like to contain political talk and posts to this forum. that it has leaked out makes that containment fairly difficult, if those certain posters refuse to engage honestly. it's maddening, but i'm sort of convinced if we contain that kind of talk here, as opposed to on football or daily texan, we can eliminate some of the gaslighting and people can be honest with the rest of the board, and, frankly, more honest to themselves.

[Captainant 28536]

15 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

we can eliminate some of the gaslighting and people can be honest with the rest of the board, and, frankly, more honest to themselves.

We talking about the same trump supporters here? Intellectual dishonesty is their primary language

[SydneyCarton 49486]

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

i will take the criticism, but i never called him a big dummy, i don't think. for me, it was just the timing of the thing, friday afternoon, wrapping things up, wife doing her remote grad school, kids playing fallout, and me surfing this thread. i will say, i wasn't trying to rip out his throat. i want more of the people who left this place to come back and try and defend this administration. luckily, hopefully, in a couple of weeks, that will be academic, and hopefully that group of posters who left for dt pastures will come back and engage on biden's presidency.

I wasnt attempting to indicate you were egregious in name calling, I tagged you simply because I knew you were in a similar political conversion point at some time in the recent-ish past. You could empathize. 

[GW Hayduke 1957]

9 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i would really like to contain political talk and posts to this forum. that it has leaked out makes that containment fairly difficult, if those certain posters refuse to engage honestly. it's maddening, but i'm sort of convinced if we contain that kind of talk here, as opposed to on football or daily texan, we can eliminate some of the gaslighting and people can be honest with the rest of the board, and, frankly, more honest to themselves.

I get that it is easier to maintain peace and moderate, keep threads on topic, and accommodate a broader user base, but how does maintaining a safe space eliminate gaslighting and allow folks to be honest? Doesn’t the opposite actually happen? If someone is logically or ethically weak in their political and cultural ideas, wouldn’t it be better promote honesty for them to see those ideas broken down and challenged?

[4th&Five 42004]

Oh, ok. 

 

[Hiphopopotamos 21191]

1 minute ago, 4th&Five said:

Oh, ok. 

 

Trump.com poll is most accurate poll.

[4th&Five 42004]

He really is aggy. Boasting about online polls. The similarities are endless. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

18 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i would really like to contain political talk and posts to this forum. that it has leaked out makes that containment fairly difficult, if those certain posters refuse to engage honestly. it's maddening, but i'm sort of convinced if we contain that kind of talk here, as opposed to on football or daily texan, we can eliminate some of the gaslighting and people can be honest with the rest of the board, and, frankly, more honest to themselves.

I try very hard to do that (contain pol talk to this forum) and I believe for the most part am successful at doing so to the point that a large percentage of my posts are in this specific forum, although I enjoy other forums very much and often read them w/o posting.  Funny that the CR has such a reputation but I wear the DT's label of  'scum' badge with honor as I don't think I engage in calling those I disagree with bad names even if I do question their motives, tone, or ability to be honest about considering sources for their viewpoints. Perspective is subjective. I may disagree with a certain poster's choice of favorite BBQ but it is an undisputed fact that the President has not released his taxes (for example).  Recognizing the bias in sources is important when honest reporting is under attack by a variety of agents. Some are individuals, some are corporate, some are foreign and state owned. I try and be up front and transparent when I make a mistake or respect another person pointing out the flaw in a source or line of thought. I enjoy the discussion, I enjoy the learning, it is not an easy thing to find these days. I don't enjoy the drive-by fart posting, however. It's something I attempt to ignore but I can see why it chaps people.

[South Austin 53222]

6 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Oh, ok. 

 

I just had sex with Scarlett Johansson.

[Nivek 17409]

I just had sex with Scarlett Johansson.

No, that was yohandson Scarlett.