Fuck Big 12 refs

['stache 21,810]

Legitimate question. Why did you decline the holding penalty in the first quarter? It made it 4th and 13 and we made a 48 yard FG. If you accept the penalty, it would have been 3rd and 23 and out of field goal range. No gain or even a short gain probably would have resulted in a punt. Anything less than 10 yards would have made the field goal longer. I thought for sure you'd accept and we'd end up punting.

Edited October 25, 2022 by 'stache

[Huckleberry 32,859]

Because Sarkisian is a poor game manager. 

[Dark Horse 2,280]

6 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Legitimate question. Why did you decline the holding penalty in the first quarter? It made it 4th and 13 and we made a 48 yard FG. If you accept the penalty, it would have been 3rd and 23 and out of field goal range. No gain or even a short gain probably would have resulted in a punt. Anything less than 10 yards would have made the field goal longer. I thought for sure you'd accept and we'd end up punting.

Me? I didn't decline it. 

How the fuck should we know?

[Wulaw Horn 19,069]

7 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Legitimate question. Why did you decline the holding penalty in the first quarter? It made it 4th and 13 and we made a 48 yard FG. If you accept the penalty, it would have been 3rd and 23 and out of field goal range. No gain or even a short gain probably would have resulted in a punt. Anything less than 10 yards would have made the field goal longer. I thought for sure you'd accept and we'd end up punting.

Dude- we gave up back to back 3/25 and 3/19 to tech. There was no way we weren’t declining that penalty. 

[utee94 15,820]

Just now, Dark Horse said:

Me? I didn't decline it. 

How the fuck should we know?

He was using the Royal "You."  Obviously.

[Dark Horse 2,280]

Just now, utee94 said:

He was using the Royal "You."  Obviously.

The editorial? 

['stache 21,810]

4 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Dude- we gave up back to back 3/25 and 3/19 to tech. There was no way we weren’t declining that penalty. 

Gundy is super conservative in those spots. It almost certainly would have been a draw up the middle for no gain and a punt.

[Deej 76,766]

17 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Legitimate question. Why did you decline the holding penalty in the first quarter? It made it 4th and 13 and we made a 48 yard FG. If you accept the penalty, it would have been 3rd and 23 and out of field goal range. No gain or even a short gain probably would have resulted in a punt. Anything less than 10 yards would have made the field goal longer. I thought for sure you'd accept and we'd end up punting.

Wow. 14-1. That proves there was no fuckery afoot. 

[C-Man 27,221]

1 hour ago, Go Pokes said:

OK, I agree with you in principal so let's see if we can actually have an adult conversation about it.  You can continue to call me names and curse me out though.  I don't expect miracles.  So yes, 14-0 is a statistical oddity.  But 9 of them were pre-snap penalties that everybody could see.  Conversely, if we had done any of those pre-snap infractions, everybody would have seen those too and you guys would rightfully be calling that out.  You aren't, so I assume we can agree on that.  So you should stop with the 14-0 talk.  It's really 5-0 in penalties.  But we had one called that you refused, so it's 5-1.  We had off setting penalties, so it's actually 6-2 in penalties called.  

Does that really seem all that terrible or such a statistical oddity?  Now if you want to bore down on each penalty and pick it apart, I'm sure you can.  But so could I.  I can go over to OSU friendly sites and link video after video of Texas holding us all day.  They didn't call a lot of holding penalties all day.  I think the one you refused was holding and I remember one or two on Texas.  So which of the 6 penalties called on UT were so terrible?   I didn't love the last PI call where your guy shoved our guy in the back.  Yeah the ball wasn't to him yet, but it didn't seem like it was within 10 yards of our guy.  I didn't see any other PI calls that looked wrong to me.  And we obviously didn't commit any since our plan was to let your receivers run wide open and hope Ewers had a bad day.  I guess that was our plan at least, since we executed it to perfection.    

If Ewers had been anywhere near his B game, you guys probably win that game easily.  I just don't think the officiating had the huge impact on the game that you think it did.  I'm sure it helped, but I don't believe it was the determining factor like it was in 2016.  Our guys played a disciplined, buttoned up game and your guys were pretty sloppy and out of sorts.   The fumbled punt never touched our guy and Johnson caught that ball inside the 10, but neither call was corrected because it was really hard to tell for sure.  But if the refs were so out to get you, why did they call those your way in the first place?  

I realize someone tried to bring this up a few days ago (R.I.P.), so go ahead and flame away and permaban me.  It just seems like you're really hung up on 14-0 when it was actually 6-2 and most seemed correct.  A few went your way and a few (+ a few extra to appease the masses) went our way.  Seems like that happens every week in every league.  

IIRC, one of those "pre-snap" infractions was when OSU subbed late on offense and we were not allowed to match subs. We got called for offsides when our guy tried to run off the field. Then we got snagged for another one on the very next play as Sark was understandably screaming at the officials.

I don't give a shit how you try to rationalize it, 14-0 is fuckery plain and simple.

[Pam Cummings 9,641]

33 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Legitimate question. Why did you decline the holding penalty in the first quarter? It made it 4th and 13 and we made a 48 yard FG. If you accept the penalty, it would have been 3rd and 23 and out of field goal range. No gain or even a short gain probably would have resulted in a punt. Anything less than 10 yards would have made the field goal longer. I thought for sure you'd accept and we'd end up punting.

Because if you accept the penalty you know that Sanders is gonna throw up a prayer ball and get a PI call. Guaran fucking teed. And then everyone would talk about how undisciplined Texas is.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Pam Cummings

[Deej 76,766]

I imagine if we had won that game by one score and OSU had 14 flags to our none or one, the OSU ref apologists on this board would be apoplectic. 

[NTVTXN 1,432]

38 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Because Sarkisian is a poor game manager. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,069]

37 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Gundy is super conservative in those spots. It almost certainly would have been a draw up the middle for no gain and a punt.

Dude- we could have given up a 26 yard draw play. 

[Deej 76,766]

5 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Dude- we could have given up a 26 yard draw play. 

They'd have run a screen that was fully contained, causing our spy to feel the need to help out, leaving a wide open field for Sanders to scramble for the first. 

[Tx_2_Sc85 332]

6 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Dude- we could have given up a 26 yard draw play. 

This. Sark ain’t perfect by any means, but declining was the right call in that situation all things considered. 

[Horn Dog 9,831]

4 hours ago, 'stache said:

Legitimate question. Why did you decline the holding penalty in the first quarter? It made it 4th and 13 and we made a 48 yard FG. If you accept the penalty, it would have been 3rd and 23 and out of field goal range. No gain or even a short gain probably would have resulted in a punt. Anything less than 10 yards would have made the field goal longer. I thought for sure you'd accept and we'd end up punting.

Lol.  Ain't no fuckin way we are stopping a 3rd and 23.  

[Doze 1,322]

4 hours ago, utee94 said:

He was using the Royal "You."  Obviously.

 

[Tex Pete 20,349]

17 hours ago, Go Pokes said:

 It just seems like you're really hung up on 14-0 when it was actually 6-2 and most seemed correct.  A few went your way and a few (+ a few extra to appease the masses) went our way.  Seems like that happens every week in every league.  

Apparently, you haven't checked the box score. You're a liar and a fan of cheating.

 

The rest of that wall of text...

[hook me 2,092]

21 hours ago, 'stache said:

Legitimate question. Why did you decline the holding penalty in the first quarter? It made it 4th and 13 and we made a 48 yard FG. If you accept the penalty, it would have been 3rd and 23 and out of field goal range. No gain or even a short gain probably would have resulted in a punt. Anything less than 10 yards would have made the field goal longer. I thought for sure you'd accept and we'd end up punting.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand at the college level. Even with how good your kicker has been, 48 yards with a crosswind is not a gimme by any means, especially for college kickers - he missed a 48 yard FG at the end of the half. If he makes it you gave up 3 points on a bad TO deep in your own territory which isn't a bad result & if he misses it you get the ball back at the 38. If you accept the penalty a LOT of things can go wrong. Penalty, busted play, normal UT 3rd & long defense that gives up the first down, 15-20 yard gain that makes for an easier FG or gives Gundy a reason to go for it on 4th - all worse than the 48 yard attempt. Even if you hold & stop them & force a punt there's a chance you get pinned inside your own 10 or, at best, you get the ball at the 20 with a touchback. I get there are arguments against it, but I personally thought it was the right decision. Tip of the hat to the FG kicker for making it & we started the next possession at the 30.

[59 Burst 434]

I wonder how often OSU gets flagged on average? To go clean for 60 minutes is pretty fucking impressive. It’s bullshit, but impressive.

[Skipper 6,135]

18 minutes ago, hook me said:

I don't know why this is so hard to understand at the college level. Even with how good your kicker has been, 48 yards with a crosswind is not a gimme by any means, especially for college kickers - he missed a 48 yard FG at the end of the half. If he makes it you gave up 3 points on a bad TO deep in your own territory which isn't a bad result & if he misses it you get the ball back at the 38. If you accept the penalty a LOT of things can go wrong. Penalty, busted play, normal UT 3rd & long defense that gives up the first down, 15-20 yard gain that makes for an easier FG or gives Gundy a reason to go for it on 4th - all worse than the 48 yard attempt. Even if you hold & stop them & force a punt there's a chance you get pinned inside your own 10 or, at best, you get the ball at the 20 with a touchback. I get there are arguments against it, but I personally thought it was the right decision. Tip of the hat to the FG kicker for making it & we started the next possession at the 30.

Agreed. I was indifferent on this for the reasons you outlined.  I would have been fine either way.  I'm sure we thought we'll take FG's after they cross the 40 all day (never imagining we would go 10 straight possessions with only 3 points, or, for purposes of this thread, that would be the last call on OSU all fucking game).

[ChiTownDoc 21,152]

LOL at OSU fans here of all places trying to defend that bullshit.  The 12 refs are fucking over Texas (and OU), and it shouldn't shock anyone.  Just admit OU and Texas stopped propping up a bunch of nobodies, and they deserve some blowback for leaving for greener pastures.  Trying to justify that fuckjob is a terrible look.  

[hook me 2,092]

33 minutes ago, 59 Burst said:

I wonder how often OSU gets flagged on average? To go clean for 60 minutes is pretty fucking impressive. It’s bullshit, but impressive.

They entered the game averaging 4.5 penalties for 41 yards a game. UT entered the game averaging 5.3/41.3 per game. That's a 13 penalty 119 yard difference (not counting yards that were taken back because of penalties) in relation to the season averages. Even accounting for our extra sloppy OL & DL play you're looking at a 9 or 10 penalty 100-105 yard difference from the combined season average. 

[oSuJeff97 3,435]

38 minutes ago, 59 Burst said:

I wonder how often OSU gets flagged on average? To go clean for 60 minutes is pretty fucking impressive. It’s bullshit, but impressive.

Not very often.

We were flagged 3, 4, and 5 times in our first three Big 12 games and twice in the Texas game, so two fewer than our 3-game conference average.

Going into the Texas game we led the Big 12 in fewest penalties and were second in the nation (behind Georgia) in fewest among P5 schools.  

[ChiTownDoc 21,152]

3 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Not very often.

We were flagged 3, 4, and 5 times in our first three Big 12 games and twice in the Texas game, so two fewer than our 3-game conference average.

Going into the Texas game we led the Big 12 in fewest penalties and were second in the nation (behind Georgia) in fewest among P5 schools.  

You guys averaged 4.5.  Texas 5.3.  Both 41 yards a game.  Was bullshit.  But what can you expect the way the 12 got left hanging...

[Hookem2147 21,217]

22 hours ago, 'stache said:

Gundy is super conservative in those spots. It almost certainly would have been a draw up the middle for no gain and a punt.

Even Gundy isn't dumb enough to run a draw play when he knows he needs about 5-8 yards to kick a FG. There are about 6 different things that could happen there if we accept that penalty and 4 of them are bad. Only good things that could happen is we somehow force a turnover or a punt or missed field goal. The higher likelihood is that OSU gets back in field goal range anyway and makes it, throws some 50/50 prayer on the sideline for a PI call and a fresh set of downs or ends up converting and scoring a TD.

 

[Tex Pete 20,349]

23 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Not very often.

We were flagged 3, 4, and 5 times in our first three Big 12 games and twice in the Texas game, so two fewer than our 3-game conference average.

Going into the Texas game we led the Big 12 in fewest penalties and were second in the nation (behind Georgia) in fewest among P5 schools.  

Jeff, bow out. No objective person thinks that game was fairly officiated. You're full of shit.

[Had Enough 2,081]

(never imagining we would go 10 straight possessions with only 3 points……..)

We basically had 8 possessions versus WVU, 9 versus ISU and 11 versus Tech in regulation.

One of these was not like the other. On a points per drive basis, OSU did not score that much more than these other opponents.

[Deej 76,766]

2 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

Jeff, bow out. No objective person thinks that game was fairly officiated. You're full of shit.

He's been masturbatimg so much to the reffing that just air comes out at this point. 

[OU Sucks 8,816]

On 10/25/2022 at 6:17 PM, 'stache said:

Legitimate question. Why did you decline the holding penalty in the first quarter? It made it 4th and 13 and we made a 48 yard FG. If you accept the penalty, it would have been 3rd and 23 and out of field goal range. No gain or even a short gain probably would have resulted in a punt. Anything less than 10 yards would have made the field goal longer. I thought for sure you'd accept and we'd end up punting.

You know how many yards the inside slants we concede for no apparent reason go for?  That's 20-25 yards, easy.  Just have to have the balls to throw to a wide open receiver.  My guess is Sark thought OSU would miss the 48 yard FG, but every kicker is Justin Tucker against us.

Edited October 26, 2022 by OU Sucks

[hookem48 4,687]

On 10/25/2022 at 5:17 PM, 'stache said:

Legitimate question. Why did you decline the holding penalty in the first quarter? It made it 4th and 13 and we made a 48 yard FG. If you accept the penalty, it would have been 3rd and 23 and out of field goal range. No gain or even a short gain probably would have resulted in a punt. Anything less than 10 yards would have made the field goal longer. I thought for sure you'd accept and we'd end up punting.

lol, I don't remember anyone in the game thread questioning the decision, we were all  "fuck 3 and 23, no way we're stopping that".

[NorthLoop 14,195]

I was very contented when they declined that 

[Nivek 16,925]

Those hs kids that KO’d that ref have any eligibility?

[Horn Dog 9,831]

7 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Not very often.

We were flagged 3, 4, and 5 times in our first three Big 12 games and twice in the Texas game, so two fewer than our 3-game conference average.

Going into the Texas game we led the Big 12 in fewest penalties and were second in the nation (behind Georgia) in fewest among P5 schools.  

Here let me help you formulate a rational response:

It is absolutely true that the B12 refs put their thumb on the scale in this game and fucked Texas.  However, Texas deserves it and will and should expect similar treatment for how ever long they remain in the B12.  Texas did themselves no favors by the entire team  playing almost universally shitty.  The QB/WR/OL having a spectacularly bad game and your coach’s inability to adjust worth a shit  were the primary reason your team lost.  The fact is you guys will have to play 120% what would normally be required  to win from this point forward to win.  Accept it.  Teach your players how to take a punch and fight back.  Teach your coaches to make adjustment.  Expect to get fucked by the  reffing.  Thats just the way it’s gonna be and it is what is deserved for taking away our golden goose.

[hook me 2,092]

8 hours ago, Horn Dog said:

Here let me help you formulate a rational response:

It is absolutely true that the B12 refs put their thumb on the scale in this game and fucked Texas.  However, Texas deserves it and will and should expect similar treatment for how ever long they remain in the B12.  Texas did themselves no favors by the entire team  playing almost universally shitty.  The QB/WR/OL having a spectacularly bad game and your coach’s inability to adjust worth a shit  were the primary reason your team lost.  The fact is you guys will have to play 120% what would normally be required  to win from this point forward to win.  Accept it.  Teach your players how to take a punch and fight back.  Teach your coaches to make adjustment.  Expect to get fucked by the  reffing.  Thats just the way it’s gonna be and it is what is deserved for taking away our golden goose.

[BabaYaga 15,292]

Me screaming at the TV

[OU Sucks 8,816]

This ref auditioning for a Big 12 gig?

 

[Nueces River Rat 5,538]

3 hours ago, OU Sucks said:

This ref auditioning for a Big 12 gig?

 

He will be employed by the Rig 12 by next season.   

[NorthLoop 14,195]

1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

He will be employed by the Rig 12 by next season.   

They'll teach him to spot the ball a full yard behind that mark so he doesn't have to make a scene

[General Specific 3,259]

He will be employed by the Rig 12 by next season.   

What is I told you he has already been on boarded, taken all his new hire training and collected his first pay check. The kicker of it all is his first day of work is today!

[Horn Dog 9,831]

Here is a comment from the video.  I’m not sure i buy it but possible I suppose:

 

It does look suspicious but here’s what probably happened. 

I’ve worked the chain crew on literally hundreds of high school football games over the past 25 years. Typically when a ball is spotted after a play that results in a first down the refs will spot the ball directly on a hashmark to avoid measurements with the sticks. They will spot it if it happens to be between the hashes on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th down but on 1st down they will spot it right on a hashmark. It keeps the game moving and limits the number of measurements. I know it’s not done this way in college or pro.

Since the ball carrier reached the hashmark and it was spotted right on the hashmark the ref shouldn’t have even pulled out the sticks for a measurement. Because the sticks should have been marked on a hashmark. He probably felt the sticks weren’t in the right place from the previous first down.

More of a mistake by the chain crew than the white hat. Not sure why the white hat moved the ball forward though. That was a clear mistake.

[CowtownHorn 5,126]

Posted this on the WVU-TCU game thread, but certainly fits here too. TCU is going to be the conference’s chosen one this season. Expect most close calls and phantom calls to go their way. So fucking obvious. The number of penalties and yardage don’t really matter. You can see it in this game that on big plays for WV the flags come out stopping their momentum. Or they just hold on to them if it benefits TCU. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by CowtownHorn

[UTEE97 3,519]

This will be the Big 12 refs when we play TCU.

 

[ATXhorn17 1,617]

1 minute ago, CowtownHorn said:

Posted this on the WVU-TCU game thread, but certainly fits here too. TCU is going to be the conference’s chosen one this season. Expect most close calls and phantom calls to go their way. So fucking obvious. The number of penalties and yardage don’t really matter. You can see in this game that on big plays for WV there’s been an iffy call or non-call.

Yup, it’s glaringly obvious we won’t be given a fair shake when they come to DKR

[CowtownHorn 5,126]

Just now, ATXhorn17 said:

Yup, it’s glaringly obvious we won’t be given a fair shake when they come to DKR

100% agree. Fully prepared for that to happen. 

[B00M 6,415]

On 10/25/2022 at 5:25 PM, Wulaw Horn said:

Dude- we gave up back to back 3/25 and 3/19 to tech. There was no way we weren’t declining that penalty. 

Get humiliated often enough on 3rd and forever and your decision making reveals the depth of trauma.

[Tex Pete 20,349]

On 10/26/2022 at 3:53 PM, oSuJeff97 said:

Not very often.

We were flagged 3, 4, and 5 times in our first three Big 12 games and twice in the Texas game, so two fewer than our 3-game conference average.

Going into the Texas game we led the Big 12 in fewest penalties and were second in the nation (behind Georgia) in fewest among P5 schools.  

Hey, Jeff: how was that game today? 

[Js1 85,320]

Leave the conference, you get fucked 

[tx ind 7,013]

Refs gave WVU the ball on this play after:

1. Mountaineers pushed a TCU player into another Mountaineer (who is already interfering with the returner) then into the returner

2. Mountaineer pushed a TCU player into the ball rolling down the field (although 21 for TCU shouldn’t have been where he was)
 

Believe this is the same crew as Texas and Okie Lite

[oSuJeff97 3,435]

On 10/29/2022 at 8:21 PM, Tex Pete said:

Hey, Jeff: how was that game today? 

Yeah we lost and it sucked.

I guess I could follow the example of some and be a whiny pussy about it, or I could chose to take the L and move on. 

I think I'll do the latter.