Fuck Big 12 refs

[Paul Wesley 3278]

I don't think there's a credible argument for "that's not holding."  It is.  

There *might* be an argument for consistency, i.e. don't suddenly flag something that hasn't been flagged all day... but I kind of doubt the DBs on both teams were getting to yank the receivers hard enough to pull them off-balance on every snap.    

[statsman 5430]

He wasn’t pulling him off balance. He was maintaining outside leverage. It’s football, not rhythmic gymnastics. 

[BurntOrange&White 39815]

4 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

I don't think there's a credible argument for "that's not holding."  It is.  

There *might* be an argument for consistency, i.e. don't suddenly flag something that hasn't been flagged all day... but I kind of doubt the DBs on both teams were getting to yank the receivers hard enough to pull them off-balance on every snap.    

If you put a still shot at most jams on the the LOS or within the 5 yards of the LOS you will see that exact same shit on nearly all of them. 

['stache 21778]

8 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

I don't think there's a credible argument for "that's not holding."  It is.  

There *might* be an argument for consistency, i.e. don't suddenly flag something that hasn't been flagged all day... but I kind of doubt the DBs on both teams were getting to yank the receivers hard enough to pull them off-balance on every snap.    

This. The dude's entire upper body went downward. If it wasn't a jersey pull, there are only two other possiblities. One, he's faking to draw a call, which would make no sense considering the circumstance, because he'd rather get open and he likely didn't have a chance to see his QB was in trouble. Second, he lost balance during the legal bump and fell downward without a jersey pull, but you don't lose your balance downward, but forward, and he went straight downward. And yea, if dbs are getting away with stuff all game, I highly doubt things that obvious were happening without flags. The DB fucked up, it's pretty goddamned obvious. I don't even like BYU but there just isn't a valid argument on that one. If they had swallowed the whistle, BYU fans would be livid, but I doubt the AD would take the podium and go full cuntmode.

Edited Tuesday at 07:26 PM by 'stache

[statsman 5430]

8 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

the 15 game was the match that lit the fuse with the cigars and the tower

it took 6 years for aggy to announce it a year early, but that means the wheels were turning before bevo tried to gore uga

That whole game was outrageous. 
 
https://www.barkingcarnival.com/2015/9/28/9407335/texas-oklahoma-state-game-an-amazing-angle-on-the-strong-ford

Texas complained, after the game, not as stridently as the Utah AD. The league made a point of standing behind their officials. 
 
I get that. I do. The fact remains, an official got angry at a coach, and I started himself into the game’s outcome. A smart thing to do would be, behind the scenes, assure Texas that things would be taken care of. Then, in the offseason, quietly not renew contracts for that crew. 
 
That’s not how the B12 operates. It’s a democracy, and the majority vote is that Texas gets too many unfair advantages as it is, and deserves a comeuppance. What’s Texas going to do? In 2015, there was an Aggie and a Bear on the Texas BoR; they weren’t going anywhere. They can just humble themselves. 

[Deej 76620]

28 minutes ago, Wilcox Cummingtonite said:

Hilarious we’ve got osu fans here complaining about big 12 refs. 
 

Every single one of them needs to shut the fuck up. 

[statsman 5430]

12 minutes ago, 'stache said:

This. The dude's entire upper body went downward. If it wasn't a jersey pull, there are only two other possiblities. One, he's faking to draw a call, which would make no sense considering the circumstance, because he'd rather get open and he likely didn't have a chance to see his QB was in trouble. Second, he lost balance during the legal bump and fell downward without a jersey pull, but you don't lose your balance downward, but forward, and he went straight downward. And yea, if dbs are getting away with stuff all game, I highly doubt things that obvious were happening without flags. The DB fucked up, it's pretty goddamned obvious. I don't even like BYU but there just isn't a valid argument on that one. If they had swallowed the whistle, BYU fans would be livid, but I doubt the AD would take the podium and go full cuntmode.

In NCAA football, a defensive player can maintain continuous contact with an eligible receiver within five yards of the line of scrimmage as long as the receiver hasn't moved past the defender.
I don’t get the need for the B12 advocates to try to gaslight us into thinking this was something it wasn’t. It’s not egregious. It’s ticky tack; could go either way. The ump had been giving him the outside corner all game long, and then with a full count and bases loaded, stopped giving it. 

[Pato del Muerto 52384]

52 minutes ago, statsman said:

Uh, no. 
 
Technically, a hold. Not called scores of times per game. Would have been fine as a no-call. 

Stopped him from gaining separation from the push off

[MrX 716]

14 minutes ago, statsman said:

In NCAA football, a defensive player can maintain continuous contact with an eligible receiver within five yards of the line of scrimmage as long as the receiver hasn't moved past the defender.
I don’t get the need for the B12 advocates to try to gaslight us into thinking this was something it wasn’t. It’s not egregious. It’s ticky tack; could go either way. The ump had been giving him the outside corner all game long, and then with a full count and bases loaded, stopped giving it. 

You can maintain contact so long as you aren’t holding. 
 

It’s a hold under the definition, but I agree that if it hadn’t been called earlier, then shouldn’t be called then. 

[PvilleStang 2856]

2 hours ago, statsman said:

That whole game was outrageous. 
 
https://www.barkingcarnival.com/2015/9/28/9407335/texas-oklahoma-state-game-an-amazing-angle-on-the-strong-ford

Texas complained, after the game, not as stridently as the Utah AD. The league made a point of standing behind their officials. 
 
I get that. I do. The fact remains, an official got angry at a coach, and I started himself into the game’s outcome. A smart thing to do would be, behind the scenes, assure Texas that things would be taken care of. Then, in the offseason, quietly not renew contracts for that crew. 
 
That’s not how the B12 operates. It’s a democracy, and the majority vote is that Texas gets too many unfair advantages as it is, and deserves a comeuppance. What’s Texas going to do? In 2015, there was an Aggie and a Bear on the Texas BoR; they weren’t going anywhere. They can just humble themselves. 

That's the thing that pisses me off to no end.  Yormark states there's a time and a place to raise these concerns, yet when we follow protocol, jack shit gets done.  

I say you take all your conference ref crews, and your worst one gets fired, end of story.  Most complaints gets you pinks.  Next season introduce a new crew, and start the cycle over again.

[Js1 85161]

4 minutes ago, PvilleStang said:

That's the thing that pisses me off to no end.  Yormark states there's a time and a place to raise these concerns, yet when we follow protocol, jack shit gets done.  

This.

How many times did Texas send in missed calls for a period of at least 8-10 years? I'm quite sure the league office either tossed it in the trash without looking at it or used it for performance review bonuses

['stache 21778]

Good thing in the SEC, the refs are all great, coaches are free to criticize the very small amount of bad calls, and the ones who are caught making bad calls are summarily fired.

[BurntOrange&White 39815]

Just now, 'stache said:

Good thing in the SEC, the refs are all great, coaches are free to criticize the very small amount of bad calls, and the ones who are caught making bad calls are summarily fired.

Yeah unlike your pussy conference where it all sucks 

[Park Gothic 5005]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Good thing in the SEC, the refs are all great, coaches are free to criticize the very small amount of bad calls, and the ones who are caught making bad calls are summarily fired.

Trying to respond to your comment honestly - the reffing in the SEC is just as incompetent as it is in any other conference. I have not noticed any uptick in reffing quality since the move. 

What I have noticed, however, is that the incompetence seems more impartial. They are calling bad games for both teams. Still frustrating, but doesn't leave a bad taste in my mouth the way a lot of Big 12 officiating did. I have not seen anything that comes close to a Kevin Mar officiated game. That guy fucking sucked and clearly hated Texas. That he still has a job is embarrassing for the league office and should piss off every Big 12 member. 

And to be clear - I'm not some conspiracy theorist who thinks the league had it in for Texas. I don't even think the crews get together and say "here's how we're gonna fuck 'em." Maybe that happened once with the Teaff game, but that's about it.

But I do think officials have personal biases and those biases work their way into games. And Texas was very unpopular within the Big 12. 

So yeah, the SEC isn't any better in terms of good calls and bad calls. But I don't think we're getting fucked over by any zebras nursing a grudge. 

[Fondren & Main 6677]

Yeah, the SEC calls holding unlike the Big 12.

[NorthLoop 14140]

1 minute ago, Fondren & Main said:

Yeah, the SEC calls holding unlike the Big 12.

Which is why OU will never be relevant ever again. 

[Billy Pilgrim 1942]

23 hours ago, Pods said:

 

I believe this was Alan Eck's crew.

 

 

No. Mar was PAC through 2019 and jointed the Big XII in 2020. 

Utah AD is the one saying Mar got fired by the Pac. 

If he's been fired once, it makes sense why Mar is willing to do whatever the Big XII wants him to do. 

 

 

Mar was the crew chief when we played Oklahoma State in Stillwater where they called 10 or 12 penalties on us and ZERO on OSU that day including a bullshit holding call on Banks when Quinn scrambled about 20 yards negating a first down on what should’ve been a game winning drive.

[statsman 5430]

It was Christian Jones that he called it on. 

[Jkwellborn 6666]

This view shows how bad the hold was and the QB looking at him to see if that receiver is open. He's held and the QB has to look elsewhere. That hold absolutely impacted the play and was the right call. 
 

If he throws that, it’s getting picked anyway.

[Pods 7541]

13 hours ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

Mar was the crew chief when we played Oklahoma State in Stillwater where they called 10 or 12 penalties on us and ZERO on OSU that day including a bullshit holding call on Banks when Quinn scrambled about 20 yards negating a first down on what should’ve been a game winning drive.

Yes, but the post I was responding to was asking about the 2015 game in Austin with Alan Eck as crew chief.

Specifically this sequence. Poona Ford badly held and flagged for defensive holding. When Charlie Strong protested, the ref bumped Charlie and flagged him for unsportsmanlike conduct. If this doesn't embed properly, start at 8:22, though the whole game is ridiculous. 

 

Edited Wednesday at 01:18 PM by Pods

[Had Enough 2057]

15 hours ago, Park Gothic said:

What I have noticed, however, is that the incompetence seems more impartial. They are calling bad games for both teams. Still frustrating, but doesn't leave a bad taste in my mouth the way a lot of Big 12 officiating did. I have not seen anything that comes close to a Kevin Mar officiated game. That guy fucking sucked and clearly hated Texas. That he still has a job is embarrassing for the league office and should piss off every Big 12 member. 

And to be clear - I'm not some conspiracy theorist who thinks the league had it in for Texas. I don't even think the crews get together and say "here's how we're gonna fuck 'em." Maybe that happened once with the Teaff game, but that's about it.

But I do think officials have personal biases and those biases work their way into games. And Texas was very unpopular within the Big 12. 

There is a bit of a flaw in your theory here.  Mar, himself, likely did not call all the penalties.  He also was not the only one who failed to call penalties against OSU or Baylor.  He was merely the most visible.  I’m not sure how it’s clear that he hated Texas more than any other official in that game.

The SEC has some games historically that looked shady.  I have little doubt they protect their golden geese when needed.

It is time to organize officials nationally rather than by conference.

[Magus Ossis 2784]

46 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

There is a bit of a flaw in your theory here.  Mar, himself, likely did not call all the penalties.  He also was not the only one who failed to call penalties against OSU or Baylor.  He was merely the most visible.  I’m not sure how it’s clear that he hated Texas more than any other official in that game.

The SEC has some games historically that looked shady.  I have little doubt they protect their golden geese when needed.

It is time to organize officials nationally rather than by conference.

This would be helpful, as would breaking up crews and assigning officials as individuals and tracking officials with quality metrics. There should never be a "team" wearing black and white stripes. If you are a quality official, you don't need any kind of "continuity" to interact with the other officials. You position yourself according to your assigned role and watch what you should accord to your assigned role. If someone on your crew is making a mistake, you have incentives to speak up in-game and after the fact to ensure you don't get the mark of shame for missed calls made by your fellow officials.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10184]

Need to pay them more (a lot more) and require more training, game simulations etc.

[RPM 26267]

Lulz. Welcome to the Ex aye aye.

[Captainant 27510]

26 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Need to pay them more (a lot more) and require more training, game simulations etc.

But there's just not enough money in football to afford that!!! /s

['stache 21778]

Literally everyone hates their officials.

 

Edited Thursday at 06:42 PM by 'stache

[BurntOrange&White 39815]

Just now, 'stache said:

Literally everyone hates their officials.

Everyone hates Big 12 officials the most though.

[Fondren & Main 6677]

2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Everyone hates Big 12 officials the most though.

Yep, we were treated better in our game @Bama last year than any Big 12 conference game by the refs and they had a slight bias toward Bama.

Big 12 refs are either corrupt or inept; hell, might be both.  Fact is, THEY FUCKING SUCK!

[Hagbard Celine 10795]

On 11/12/2024 at 1:25 PM, 'stache said:

This. The dude's entire upper body went downward. If it wasn't a jersey pull, there are only two other possiblities. One, he's faking to draw a call, which would make no sense considering the circumstance, because he'd rather get open and he likely didn't have a chance to see his QB was in trouble. Second, he lost balance during the legal bump and fell downward without a jersey pull, but you don't lose your balance downward, but forward, and he went straight downward. And yea, if dbs are getting away with stuff all game, I highly doubt things that obvious were happening without flags. The DB fucked up, it's pretty goddamned obvious. I don't even like BYU but there just isn't a valid argument on that one. If they had swallowed the whistle, BYU fans would be livid, but I doubt the AD would take the podium and go full cuntmode.

WE DON'T CARE

we are just giddy as all fuck to see a kevin mar controversy that has zero impact on us 1500 miles away

saturday night brethren host chalk

must-see tv

to what lengths will yormark go?

at the end of the season last year, he TOOK IT UP THE ASS 2 WEEKS IN A ROW thanks to our administration of justice 25 years in the making

he endured the worst standing ovation/humiliation in the history of televised sports

let's see what he has in store for innocent as fuck kansas

he certainly does like the taste of BOTTOM BITCH and will do anything in his power to deliver a bye to the brethren

[Hagbard Celine 10795]

On 11/12/2024 at 3:44 PM, 'stache said:

Good thing in the SEC, the refs are all great, coaches are free to criticize the very small amount of bad calls, and the ones who are caught making bad calls are summarily fired.

things have been quiet on the sec referee front for the past couple of weeks.........   hmmm.....

/cubantakesnote

[Hagbard Celine 10795]

47 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Yep, we were treated better in our game @Bama last year than any Big 12 conference game by the refs and they had a slight bias toward Bama.

Big 12 refs are either corrupt or inept; hell, might be both.  Fact is, THEY FUCKING SUCK!

watch every sec game closely

they have a side judge that is 90% league-accurate on spotting the ball

but first, watch kansas @ brethren saturday night

watch kansas have to pick up 12 yards for every first down, just like we did, game after game, season after season, since mack left

[Hagbard Celine 10795]

4 hours ago, 'stache said:

Literally everyone hates their officials.

 

our tenure in the rig lasted for 25 years

first, please, show us just one single example of a referee controversy for any other member of that league which rivaled our game against you in '15 or our game against tceh in '08

just one

second, please show us documented video evidence of the requirement to earn 12 yards for every 1st down, for any other team not named Texas, during the past 25 years

show your work

/judgesmails

 

[Hagbard Celine 10795]

yo @'stache

/smails

['stache 21778]

16 hours ago, Hagbard Celine said:

our tenure in the rig lasted for 25 years

first, please, show us just one single example of a referee controversy for any other member of that league which rivaled our game against you in '15 or our game against tceh in '08

just one

second, please show us documented video evidence of the requirement to earn 12 yards for every 1st down, for any other team not named Texas, during the past 25 years

show your work

/judgesmails

 

Sure, I'll get right on that, lol.

[jw4381 3067]

What is this bullshit about Mar just now joining the rig 12? He was a thorn in our side for years, wasn't he?.

[statsman 5430]

The dogpiling of the OSU guys got me to remember a Texas-OSU game where the Cowboys fans thought they were screwed by the officiating. In 2012, at Stillwater, Joe Bergeron scored the winning TD for Texas with 29 seconds left. OSU fans claimed he fumbled first, and the TD shouldn’t count (OSU came up with the ball). 
 
Googling, it turns out that play wasn’t as controversial as remembered. It was reviewed by replay officials, and confirmed. The TV crew was satisfied the call was right, too. 
 
The next year, a similar call was made on a Jonathan Gray carry against ISU. ISU picked up the ball and ran it back for what would be the game clinching TD. Instead, it was ruled “down by fwd progress” and Texas went on for the winning score. Ironically, Texas might have been really helped if that carry was ruled a fumble; Texas would have fallen out of league contention and pushed Mack out a few weeks earlier, and perhaps opened up a wider pool of candidates for HC. 
 
2013 was the last time a B12 fanbase argued Texas got a favorable call. 

Edited Friday at 05:49 PM by statsman

[Valmy77 13193]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

The dogpiling of the OSU guys got me to remember a Texas-OSU game where the Cowboys fans thought they were screwed by the officiating. In 2012, at Stillwater, Joe Bergeron scored the winning TD for Texas with 29 seconds left. OSU fans claimed he fumbled first, and the TD shouldn’t count (OSU came up with the ball). 
 
Googling, it turns out that play wasn’t as co traversal as remembered. It was reviewed by replay officials, and confirmed. The TV crew was satisfied the call was right, too. 
 
The next year, a similar call was made on a Jonathan Gray carry against ISU. ISU picked up the ball and ran it back for what would be the game clinching TD. Instead, it was ruled “down by fwd progress” and Texas went on for the winning score. Ironically, Texas might have been really helped if that carry was ruled a fumble; Texas would have fallen out of league contention and pushed Mack out a few weeks earlier, and perhaps opened up a wider pool of candidates for HC. 

Back in the Mack days the refs loved us, probably because Mack would send their moms gift baskets on their birthdays and shit.

Yet we still got subjected to weird stuff like the no-holds-called 2008 Tech game.

[NorthLoop 14140]

We had only 2 flags today. Did that ever happen once in a rig12 game?

[dcar00 14060]

31 minutes ago, NorthLoop said:

We had only 2 flags today. Did that ever happen once in a rig12 game?

been a while.  the hold I thought was very questionable on our WR and the uncalled DPI was obviously the worst.

[mr. sunshine 2824]

41 minutes ago, NorthLoop said:

We had only 2 flags today. Did that ever happen once in a rig12 game?

I think Arkansas only had a penalty or two also. In the Big 12 days I used to expect a flag after every fucking play

[Eskimohorn 5623]

We had only 2 flags today. Did that ever happen once in a rig12 game?

The refs called then picked up the flag on the kick catch interference. Exactly what they were supposed to do. Then the Barron PBU

[dcar00 14060]

9 minutes ago, mr. sunshine said:

I think Arkansas only had a penalty or two also. In the Big 12 days I used to expect a flag after every fucking play

I was waiting for the patented drive killer(holding, chop, OPI) on our TD drive to seal it but it never showed up.  completely shocked.

[Nivek 16875]

On 11/14/2024 at 12:41 PM, 'stache said:

Literally everyone hates their officials.

 

Maybe people hate them because they are rigging games.   See, you still cannot even own up to the B12 giving you multiple games against us through blatant bias in officiating.    SEC has issues as well but it is still better than the B12 by a large margin.