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Fuck Big 12 refs

taybo20

By taybo20
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Bshep
Bshep

Media is just hung up on the 14-0 difference in penalties stat. The first flag of the game was a holding call on the OSU RT. The dumbass UT coaches declined the penalty, basically giving OSU 3 pts bec

DeadArmadillo
DeadArmadillo
ChiTownDoc
ChiTownDoc

I don’t have any UT fans I hate…  Live in a bubble.  Hell I have many more UT friends/family vs OU.  I’m saying all that to preface this: I’ll happily root for UT in the championship, if/when they mak

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Nivek

Nivek 17329

Posted
Posted
Not much UT can do. The objective stats showing the disconnect between calls in UT games and no -UT games would absolutely carry weight in a court discrimination case (that’s how discrimination is proven), but there is no way the media can understand them. 
 
However, they do understand, “Texas is a whiny titty baby”, which is how the B12 office would explain it. Plus, that’s a juicier story. 
 
I think Texas is doing the right thing, with Sark’s subtle post game jabs and in game yelling. It’s all we can do. 

Actually there is plenty the team could do. One is to play the fuckery on the godzillatron on the big screen with quotes by Wiser and Yormark interspersed with the two sided officiating and spots. As part of the pregame warm-up.

Show the spots. Show the stats. Ask how our d-line can get so much pressure on Alabama but disappear in the middle of the season against that bad ass Houston oline (with images).

Include stats from last season and our perfect opponents.
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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15532

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Nivek said:


Actually there is plenty the team could do. One is to play the fuckery on the godzillatron on the big screen with quotes by Wiser and Yormark interspersed with the two sided officiating and spots. As part of the pregame warm-up.

Show the spots. Show the stats. Ask how our d-line can get so much pressure on Alabama but disappear in the middle of the season against that bad ass Houston oline (with images).

Include stats from last season and our perfect opponents.

THIS!

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 41643

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Horndog said:

Good point.  Is there a data base that breaks it down by conference game? 

We don't need to necessarily break it down by conference game as Big 12 officials have called every Texas game except Bama.

But the following:

Rice - 5
Bama - 10
Wyoming - 3

Big 12 Play 32 total penalties in 8 games. 

2 minutes ago, Deej said:

E Hogan and Rob B even talking this morning about the bad officiating in Saturday's game. 

Must not have had StassneyHorn explain it to them yet. 

That cuck @Smax is impressed with @StassneyHorn

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Js1

Js1 86923

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Posted

No doubt Bellmont is sending in reports weekly of missed calls. The conference has made it clear they don’t care about how bad the officiating is. Sark has toed the line of what he is allowed to say in public without getting publicly reprimanded or fined by the conference. 

Im sure CDC is well aware we are already officiated against, but stops at giving them a ton of public ammo to make it worse. On July 1, 2024? Blast the fuck out of them when they can’t do anything to us anymore 

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Horndog

Horndog 2293

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

We don't need to necessarily break it down by conference game as Big 12 officials have called every Texas game except Bama

But can we see how the Texas opponents' penalty stats compare with the other Big 12 teams in conference games?

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JBJ

JBJ 3780

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Deej said:

E Hogan and Rob B even talking this morning about the bad officiating in Saturday's game. 

Must not have had StassneyHorn explain it to them yet. 

I really think the halftime chatter on social media affected how they called the second half.  Lots of sports guys were pointing out the questionable calls.  As much as Fox caught crap for downplaying it, every single time they back from commercial they talked about the penalty discrepancy and mentioned the TDs called back by penalty.

It's so much harder to hide from flags thrown than flags not thrown.

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15532

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Horndog said:

But can we see how the Texas opponents' penalty stats compare with the other Big 12 teams in conference games?

 

22 minutes ago, JBJ said:

It's so much harder to hide from flags thrown than flags not thrown.

Herein lies the bigger problem.  At the very least with flags thrown, break is down by quarter to illustrate how many late game fuckery incidents the team has had to deal with.  No-calls are another thing.  Take the most egregious call all season, the PI on Stoops that wasn't called and sealed the game.  Not a whisper of that now.  

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Nueces River Rat

Nueces River Rat 5730

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Posted
39 minutes ago, Js1 said:

No doubt Bellmont is sending in reports weekly of missed calls. The conference has made it clear they don’t care about how bad the officiating is. Sark has toed the line of what he is allowed to say in public without getting publicly reprimanded or fined by the conference. 

Im sure CDC is well aware we are already officiated against, but stops at giving them a ton of public ammo to make it worse. On July 1, 2024? Blast the fuck out of them when they can’t do anything to us anymore 

This is a great point.   We still have to worry about the fuckery with officiating carrying over to other sports.  Don’t think for a minute as pretty as the Rig 12 leadershp is they won’t try especially if we manage to win the football title.   Basketball is ripe. 

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Nivek

Nivek 17329

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Posted
I really think the halftime chatter on social media affected how they called the second half.  Lots of sports guys were pointing out the questionable calls.  As much as Fox caught crap for downplaying it, every single time they back from commercial they talked about the penalty discrepancy and mentioned the TDs called back by penalty.
It's so much harder to hide from flags thrown than flags not thrown.

I don’t think the conference cares one bit. They only threw that dpi on ISU because it looked like a blow to the head and it was clear that ISU was overmatched. They started tossing the flags late in the game to try to make it look somewhat fair. This was the plan, and script they have used before.

Because most sports writers and talking heads don’t actually watch the games.
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statsman

statsman 5675

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

This is a great point.   We still have to worry about the fuckery with officiating carrying over to other sports.  Don’t think for a minute as pretty as the Rig 12 leadershp is they won’t try especially if we manage to win the football title.   Basketball is ripe. 

Nope. NCAA hired basketball and baseball officials. Conference only hires football officials. 

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 11157

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

This is a great point.   We still have to worry about the fuckery with officiating carrying over to other sports.  Don’t think for a minute as pretty as the Rig 12 leadershp is they won’t try especially if we manage to win the football title.   Basketball is ripe. 

i had not thought of this

baseball too

we can't nuke from orbit until we're actually gone otherwise 2 other title runs will be at greater risk then they already are

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bigcigar

bigcigar 1224

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Dennis Taylor said:

Yeah the one that this came from and you don't think it's holding. I guess he's patting Blackwell on the back and in turn Blackwell decides to hang out for a second instead of going to cover his guy, whom he sees going by with a TD eminent 

 

Screenshot_20231120-081700_Chrome.jpg

Blackwell should have spun to get a block in the back

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Skipper

Skipper 6406

Posted
Posted (edited)

We're going to get the Kevin Mar crew Friday.  I'm pretty confident of that.   So I think this will be a nice test as to whether Mar and his cronies actually hate Texas or just acting at the direction of the conference.   In Mar's case, I've always assumed he doesn't need instructions or any "winks" to fuck us.  He personally enjoys it.   But as much as the Big 12 wants to fuck over Texas, this tiebreaker is such a fucking mess that it would really be in their best interest for Texas to just win on Friday and simplify the tiebreaker for the last spot.  That is the only scenario with certainty at least according to the Big 12's interpretation of the poorly written rule.   Personally I still don't understand based on my reading of it why Texas hasn't clinched but whatever.  

Don't get me wrong, I fully expect this team to get Mar'd on Friday and have to overcome a bunch of BS just like we did last week.  But the Big 12 fucked up their tiebreaker so bad they should actually want Texas to win to save face.

Edited by Skipper
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Nivek

Nivek 17329

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Posted
How do we avoid big12 in neutral and bowl games ? 

We want the b12 teams because they wont be protected by their refs (bowl game refs are not from the conference of either school).

We don’t want their crews if we can avoid them. For this bowl season we might draw an SEC crew which could be in our favor.
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Auto Driller

Auto Driller 2563

Posted
Posted
On 11/7/2023 at 11:31 AM, Auto Driller said:

Because I hate Big 12 refs and have too much time on my hands I decided to look at the data for this year’s conference games and try to figure out whether there is any validity to the idea that games are called different against us. I looked only at the teams that we have played so far (Kansas, OU, KSU, BYU, Baylor, Houston). Here is what I found:

Games not against Texas

——

Average penalties: 5.4

Average penalty yards: 48.9

Average opponent penalties: 5.4

Average opponent penalty yards: 45.9

 

Against Texas

——

Average penalties: 3.7

Average penalty yards: 26.0

Average opponent penalties: 6.2

Average opponent penalty yards: 48.5

 

Conclusions

——

Against Texas, an opponent can expect to be called for ~2 fewer penalties and ~26 fewer penalty yards than their average in Big 12 play. They can expect their opponent (Texas) to be called for ~1 additional penalty and ~3 additional penalty yards than average.

Officiating crews are, statistically speaking, having a much greater effect by failing to call penalties against our opponents than by calling extra penalties against us. This is consistent with the examination of holding / PI calls posted earlier in the thread.

I went back and updated the spreadsheet to account for the last two games against TCU and ISU. I also pulled in all conference games from weeks 4-11 that involved either of these teams (previously they were excluded). Here are the results:

Games not against Texas

——

Average penalties: 5.2

Average penalty yards: 44.4

Average opponent penalties: 5.0

Average opponent penalty yards: 40.9

 

Games against Texas

——

Average penalties: 4.0

Average penalty yards: 30.3

Average opponent (Texas) penalties: 6.4

Average opponent (Texas) penalty yards: 50.5

 

Conclusions

——

Our opponents can expect to be called for 1.2 fewer penalties for 14.1 fewer penalty yards than their average in conference play. They can expect their opponent (Texas) to be called for 1.4 additional penalties and 9.6 additional penalty yards relative to the average of their other conference opponents. 
 

TLDR we are getting consistently fucked to the tune of nearly 25 net penalty yards per game. The sample size is now 53 games. This is not random chance.

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T’Boo Ted Marshall

T’Boo Ted Marshall 2779

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No doubt Bellmont is sending in reports weekly of missed calls. The conference has made it clear they don’t care about how bad the officiating is. Sark has toed the line of what he is allowed to say in public without getting publicly reprimanded or fined by the conference. 
Im sure CDC is well aware we are already officiated against, but stops at giving them a ton of public ammo to make it worse. On July 1, 2024? Blast the fuck out of them when they can’t do anything to us anymore 

What can they do now? Can’t be any worse.
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statsman

statsman 5675

Posted
Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

I went back and updated the spreadsheet to account for the last two games against TCU and ISU. I also pulled in all conference games from weeks 4-11 that involved either of these teams (previously they were excluded). Here are the results:

Games not against Texas

——

Average penalties: 5.2

Average penalty yards: 44.4

Average opponent penalties: 5.0

Average opponent penalty yards: 40.9

 

Games against Texas

——

Average penalties: 4.0

Average penalty yards: 30.3

Average opponent (Texas) penalties: 6.4

Average opponent (Texas) penalty yards: 50.5

 

Conclusions

——

Our opponents can expect to be called for 1.2 fewer penalties for 14.1 fewer penalty yards than their average in conference play. They can expect their opponent (Texas) to be called for 1.4 additional penalties and 9.6 additional penalty yards relative to the average of their other conference opponents. 
 

TLDR we are getting consistently fucked to the tune of nearly 25 net penalty yards per game. The sample size is now 53 games. This is not random chance.

Thats the gross impact, but I don’t think each crew is equally bad. None of the crews did us any favors, but some are worse than others. Here is what I have:

Rice-Salaam

Wyoming-Mar (bad, but didn’t matter)

BU-Anderson

KU-Boitmann 

OU-Alvarez (bad)

UH-VanderVelde (bad, until a decent spot at the end convinced everyone they were for us)

BYU-Anderson

KSU-Mar (bad)

TCU-Salaam

ISU-Boitmann (bad)

Johns did the OU-OSU game. 
 
Id like to see Salaam or Anderson again, but I fear we’ll get Alvarez or VanderVelde. Those two, and Mar, put the biggest screw to us over the last three years. 

Edited by statsman
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Hard Times

Hard Times 309

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Posted
17 minutes ago, statsman said:

Thats the gross impact, but I don’t think each crew is equally bad. None of the crews did us any favors, but some are worse than others. Here is what I have:

Rice-Salaam

Wyoming-Mar (bad, but didn’t matter)

BU-Anderson

KU-Boitmann 

OU-Alvarez (bad)

UH-VanderVelde (bad, until a decent spot at the end convinced everyone they were for us)

BYU-Anderson

KSU-Mar (bad)

TCU-Salaam

ISU-Boitmann (bad)

Johns did the OU-OSU game. 
 
Id like to see Salaam or Anderson again, but I fear we’ll get Alvarez or VanderVelde. Those two, and Mar, put the biggest screw to us over the last three years. 

Looks like it's Alvarez or Vandervelde just based on probability. Either would suck.

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Hermanator

Hermanator 7570

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

This is a great point.   We still have to worry about the fuckery with officiating carrying over to other sports.  Don’t think for a minute as pretty as the Rig 12 leadershp is they won’t try especially if we manage to win the football title.   Basketball is ripe. 

I don't think we have the guards to win the Big 12 in basketball this year. We have good shooters but undersized and not as good defensively. Refs probably won't factor much into that by the end of it. Most likely Kansas wins again

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Eskimohorn

Eskimohorn 5675

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Posted
The second he made contact with the linemen he was fucked. Screenshots are incredibly deceptive cause the gif shows he never latches on for more than  half a second, and never pulls him sideways

Blackwell didnt just slip on his tea. He was held to prevent him from following the RB. Is the video also deceptive? Once you grab the back of the numbers and tug jersey thats a hold. You pretty much know its a hold when the Edge player cant move in the other direction. If a ref sees a hold like in the gif, they usually call it.
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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 11157

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Auto Driller said:

I went back and updated the spreadsheet to account for the last two games against TCU and ISU. I also pulled in all conference games from weeks 4-11 that involved either of these teams (previously they were excluded). Here are the results:

Games not against Texas

——

Average penalties: 5.2

Average penalty yards: 44.4

Average opponent penalties: 5.0

Average opponent penalty yards: 40.9

 

Games against Texas

——

Average penalties: 4.0

Average penalty yards: 30.3

Average opponent (Texas) penalties: 6.4

Average opponent (Texas) penalty yards: 50.5

 

Conclusions

——

Our opponents can expect to be called for 1.2 fewer penalties for 14.1 fewer penalty yards than their average in conference play. They can expect their opponent (Texas) to be called for 1.4 additional penalties and 9.6 additional penalty yards relative to the average of their other conference opponents. 
 

TLDR we are getting consistently fucked to the tune of nearly 25 net penalty yards per game. The sample size is now 53 games. This is not random chance.

i would love to see a line chart which shows where the flags are thrown minutes 1-60 for all league games with only 2 lines: us, and everyone else averaged together

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 11157

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Dennis Taylor said:

Screenshot_20231120-081700_Chrome.jpg

thank you @Dennis Taylor for posting this clear pic which shows that i was wrong about the hold on murphy

clone63 has a towel rolled up on his left forearm so he is not reaching under murphy's left shoulder pad for what i thought was a hold

it was only illegal hands to the face, or facemasking

 

Edited by Hagbard Celine
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FtheBig12

FtheBig12 176

Posted
Posted

Fans can't really have an effect on how bad we're getting screwed in this conference but there's one thing we can affect. Make it clear to the athletic department that they better never schedule a Big 12 team out of conference ever again. They're having a blast screwing us now but it won't be so much fun in a few years when no one is watching any of their conference games. Sure don't want them making a dime off our brand.

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Dennis Taylor

Dennis Taylor 19284

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

thank you @Dennis Taylor for posting this clear pic which shows that i was wrong about the hold on murphy

clone63 has a towel rolled up on his left forearm so he is not reaching under murphy's left shoulder pad for what i thought was a hold

it was only illegal hands to the face, or facemasking

 

I'm glad I could help 

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Paul Wesley

Paul Wesley 3313

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The block in the back on the punt is the flag I have the least issue with.  That dude had zero chance of affecting the play, but it was still a foul. 

The absurd PI against Watts for hand fighting while the ball sailed 10 yards out of bounds - not even close to PI and not even close to catchable.  Result?  3 points for ISU and a tie ballgame.

The ticky-tacky hold on our TD pass... shit, our D linemen get held far worse than that on literally every possession of every game.  That took 4 points from us.  

The "grounding" call where Worthy broke right and Quinn threw it left on a scramble drill and the ball went 35+ yards in the air - that's a judgement call where the officials have to decide whether the QB was trying to complete a touchdown pass, or if he was throwing the ball into the grass to avoid a sack.  It's a lot like an ump deciding whether a pitcher intended to hit the batter.  And I just literally cannot remember that being flagged when a QB is trying to complete a pass that far down the field, but miscommunicates with the receiver.  Never.  Not once.  That was bullshit.  It didn't affect the score, because Auburn hit a very difficult field goal anyway, but it was obvious fuckery, and you KNEW they were gonna flag it when they huddled up together 15 seconds after the play ended.    

The "procedure" penalty against Whittington... again, that's a reeeeeally soft call that you could probably flag multiple times every game, but it just never gets flagged.  

But, as others have said, it's not the calls on us as much as it's the failure to flag obvious penalties on our Big 12 opponents that's just so consistently 1-sided.  Our ball carriers and receivers got hit a step or two out of bounds all night in Ames.  Our D linemen got grabbed, held, and tackled all night with zero holding flags.  Worthy and Mitchell had at least two uncalled PI on very, very catchable balls where they were taken to the ground by the DB - one where Worthy is trying to come back for an under thrown deep ball.  Pretty good chance we get points there - first down at midfield instead of punting from our side of the field - if we get a flag on the most obvious PI call of the season.   

That jailbreak "screen" - Iowa State got 33 yards on a critical late drive where they scored 7 points, and it was OBVIOUS in real time that 3 of their linemen were between 7-8 yards downfield hunting for DB to block and the ball was completed past the line of scrimmage.  I can't remember down and distance, but there's a very high chance that's a drive-killer with any semblance of fair officiating (would have put them in 2nd and 20+ back on their side of the field instead of 1st down in our red zone).  That's also reviewable and was as obvious as can be had they taken a look.  It was a 43-yard difference in field position on what turned out to be a 7-point Iowa State drive.

And then a snap or two later, if Murphy doesn't get obviously held out in space on the subsequent TD, their QB would have been throwing it with an NFL DT right in his face (or yet again that same drive is stalled by an obvious 10-yard penalty).    

With any reasonable degree of even-handed officiating, this is a 20- to 24-point game.  

And as HC pointed out, we are repeatedly getting DEEP in the second half before our opponent gets a single penalty marked against them.  Then, just like in basketball, we might get 3 or 4 meaningless calls in the last possession or two (after the outcome is decided), so that the 8-0 penalty disparity ends up more like 8-5, and the league doesn't have to account for a comically 1-sided box score even though it was comically 1-sided officiating for the first 50+ minutes.  

Our record - and any reasonable eyeball test - says we're the best team with the best players in this Big 12, but -  miraculously - our NFL-caliber D line never gets held, and our NFL-caliber receivers never get interfered with.  The season-long penalty stats 100% illustrate the league fuckery, and it's happening while our conference commissioners repeatedly mock us and openly cheer for our opponents to beat us.    

Show me a clip where a league commissioner is giving spirited pep talk to one team for them to beat another team in his own league.

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