Fuck Big 12 refs

[Dennis Taylor 18,679]

Just now, StassneyHorn said:

The second he made contact with the linemen he was fucked. Screenshots are incredibly deceptive cause the gif shows he never latches on for more than  half a second, and never pulls him sideways

[The Earl of Texas 3,131]

Props to Sark for not blowing his lid during some of these calls. I’d be handling it less well.

[StassneyHorn 6,534]

13 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

Oh I’m stopping. Enjoy the pity party that is this aggy thread filled with hedged bets and insecurities

Edited November 20, 2023 by StassneyHorn

[Nivek 16,808]

Not much UT can do. The objective stats showing the disconnect between calls in UT games and no -UT games would absolutely carry weight in a court discrimination case (that’s how discrimination is proven), but there is no way the media can understand them. 
 
However, they do understand, “Texas is a whiny titty baby”, which is how the B12 office would explain it. Plus, that’s a juicier story. 
 
I think Texas is doing the right thing, with Sark’s subtle post game jabs and in game yelling. It’s all we can do. 

Actually there is plenty the team could do. One is to play the fuckery on the godzillatron on the big screen with quotes by Wiser and Yormark interspersed with the two sided officiating and spots. As part of the pregame warm-up.

Show the spots. Show the stats. Ask how our d-line can get so much pressure on Alabama but disappear in the middle of the season against that bad ass Houston oline (with images).

Include stats from last season and our perfect opponents.

[BabaYaga 15,202]

4 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Actually there is plenty the team could do. One is to play the fuckery on the godzillatron on the big screen with quotes by Wiser and Yormark interspersed with the two sided officiating and spots. As part of the pregame warm-up.

Show the spots. Show the stats. Ask how our d-line can get so much pressure on Alabama but disappear in the middle of the season against that bad ass Houston oline (with images).

Include stats from last season and our perfect opponents.

THIS!

[Horndog 2,216]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Keep in mind...this includes the Bama game that was done by SEC officials.

 

So take 10 penalties off the total for us with Big 12 officals....

Good point.  Is there a data base that breaks it down by conference game? 

[Deej 76,511]

E Hogan and Rod B even talking this morning about the bad officiating in Saturday's game. 

Must not have had StassneyHorn explain it to them yet. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Deej

[BurntOrange&White 39,486]

1 minute ago, Horndog said:

Good point.  Is there a data base that breaks it down by conference game? 

We don't need to necessarily break it down by conference game as Big 12 officials have called every Texas game except Bama.

But the following:

Rice - 5
Bama - 10
Wyoming - 3

Big 12 Play 32 total penalties in 8 games. 

2 minutes ago, Deej said:

E Hogan and Rob B even talking this morning about the bad officiating in Saturday's game. 

Must not have had StassneyHorn explain it to them yet. 

That cuck @Smax is impressed with @StassneyHorn

[Js1 85,056]

No doubt Bellmont is sending in reports weekly of missed calls. The conference has made it clear they don’t care about how bad the officiating is. Sark has toed the line of what he is allowed to say in public without getting publicly reprimanded or fined by the conference. 

Im sure CDC is well aware we are already officiated against, but stops at giving them a ton of public ammo to make it worse. On July 1, 2024? Blast the fuck out of them when they can’t do anything to us anymore 

[TrashMaster G 17,379]

3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

That cuck @Smax is impressed with @StassneyHorn

Idiocy loves company.

That's why there are over 70k in Collie Station.

[Dennis Taylor 18,679]

25 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Oh I’m stopping. Enjoy the pity party that is this aggy thread filled with hedged bets and insecurities

I, like most on here (including you) have absolutely no idea what the fuck you're talking about 

[Horndog 2,216]

8 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

We don't need to necessarily break it down by conference game as Big 12 officials have called every Texas game except Bama

But can we see how the Texas opponents' penalty stats compare with the other Big 12 teams in conference games?

Edited November 20, 2023 by Horndog

[JBJ 3,647]

15 minutes ago, Deej said:

E Hogan and Rob B even talking this morning about the bad officiating in Saturday's game. 

Must not have had StassneyHorn explain it to them yet. 

I really think the halftime chatter on social media affected how they called the second half.  Lots of sports guys were pointing out the questionable calls.  As much as Fox caught crap for downplaying it, every single time they back from commercial they talked about the penalty discrepancy and mentioned the TDs called back by penalty.

It's so much harder to hide from flags thrown than flags not thrown.

Edited November 20, 2023 by JBJ

[kevwun 15,595]

He's either trolling or on the spectrum.  He did this same thing a couple weeks ago but about Arch Manning.

Edited November 20, 2023 by kevwun

[BabaYaga 15,202]

26 minutes ago, Horndog said:

But can we see how the Texas opponents' penalty stats compare with the other Big 12 teams in conference games?

 

22 minutes ago, JBJ said:

It's so much harder to hide from flags thrown than flags not thrown.

Herein lies the bigger problem.  At the very least with flags thrown, break is down by quarter to illustrate how many late game fuckery incidents the team has had to deal with.  No-calls are another thing.  Take the most egregious call all season, the PI on Stoops that wasn't called and sealed the game.  Not a whisper of that now.  

[Nueces River Rat 5,528]

39 minutes ago, Js1 said:

No doubt Bellmont is sending in reports weekly of missed calls. The conference has made it clear they don’t care about how bad the officiating is. Sark has toed the line of what he is allowed to say in public without getting publicly reprimanded or fined by the conference. 

Im sure CDC is well aware we are already officiated against, but stops at giving them a ton of public ammo to make it worse. On July 1, 2024? Blast the fuck out of them when they can’t do anything to us anymore 

This is a great point.   We still have to worry about the fuckery with officiating carrying over to other sports.  Don’t think for a minute as pretty as the Rig 12 leadershp is they won’t try especially if we manage to win the football title.   Basketball is ripe. 

[Nivek 16,808]

I really think the halftime chatter on social media affected how they called the second half.  Lots of sports guys were pointing out the questionable calls.  As much as Fox caught crap for downplaying it, every single time they back from commercial they talked about the penalty discrepancy and mentioned the TDs called back by penalty.
It's so much harder to hide from flags thrown than flags not thrown.

I don’t think the conference cares one bit. They only threw that dpi on ISU because it looked like a blow to the head and it was clear that ISU was overmatched. They started tossing the flags late in the game to try to make it look somewhat fair. This was the plan, and script they have used before.

Because most sports writers and talking heads don’t actually watch the games.

[statsman 5,406]

13 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

This is a great point.   We still have to worry about the fuckery with officiating carrying over to other sports.  Don’t think for a minute as pretty as the Rig 12 leadershp is they won’t try especially if we manage to win the football title.   Basketball is ripe. 

Nope. NCAA hired basketball and baseball officials. Conference only hires football officials. 

[BigHornedLurker 1,894]

How do we avoid big12 in neutral and bowl games ? 

[StassneyHorn 6,534]

47 minutes ago, kevwun said:

He's either trolling or on the spectrum.  He did this same thing a couple weeks ago but about Arch Manning.

Try again. 

[BurntOrange&White 39,486]

1 minute ago, BigHornedLurker said:

How do we avoid big12 in neutral and bowl games ? 

Make playoffs

[crash_davis 23,078]

6 minutes ago, BigHornedLurker said:

How do we avoid big12 in neutral and bowl games ? 

The SEC chooses who plays whom and where in the bowl games. Simple, Texas doesn't play against a B12 team unless it's officiated by a non-B12 crew. Fuck this POS conference.

[Hagbard Celine 10,734]

31 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

This is a great point.   We still have to worry about the fuckery with officiating carrying over to other sports.  Don’t think for a minute as pretty as the Rig 12 leadershp is they won’t try especially if we manage to win the football title.   Basketball is ripe. 

i had not thought of this

baseball too

we can't nuke from orbit until we're actually gone otherwise 2 other title runs will be at greater risk then they already are

[Hagbard Celine 10,734]

19 minutes ago, statsman said:

Nope. NCAA hired basketball and baseball officials. Conference only hires football officials. 

sure about this?  good news if true

[Pescado_Rojo 19,327]

20 minutes ago, statsman said:

Nope. NCAA hired basketball and baseball officials. Conference only hires football officials. 

Those NCAA Basketball officials called the Louisville game last night like they had money on Louisville. 

[bigcigar 1,161]

2 hours ago, Dennis Taylor said:

Yeah the one that this came from and you don't think it's holding. I guess he's patting Blackwell on the back and in turn Blackwell decides to hang out for a second instead of going to cover his guy, whom he sees going by with a TD eminent 

 

Blackwell should have spun to get a block in the back

[Dennis Taylor 18,679]

9 minutes ago, bigcigar said:

Blackwell should have spun to get a block in the back

If they don't call blatant holding thy aren't calling that either 

[Skipper 6,088]

We're going to get the Kevin Mar crew Friday.  I'm pretty confident of that.   So I think this will be a nice test as to whether Mar and his cronies actually hate Texas or just acting at the direction of the conference.   In Mar's case, I've always assumed he doesn't need instructions or any "winks" to fuck us.  He personally enjoys it.   But as much as the Big 12 wants to fuck over Texas, this tiebreaker is such a fucking mess that it would really be in their best interest for Texas to just win on Friday and simplify the tiebreaker for the last spot.  That is the only scenario with certainty at least according to the Big 12's interpretation of the poorly written rule.   Personally I still don't understand based on my reading of it why Texas hasn't clinched but whatever.  

Don't get me wrong, I fully expect this team to get Mar'd on Friday and have to overcome a bunch of BS just like we did last week.  But the Big 12 fucked up their tiebreaker so bad they should actually want Texas to win to save face.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Skipper

[WalmartTexasFans 66]

Where are all the data nerds that should be breaking down officiating crew trends, individual teams average performance vs performance against Texas, and penalties distribution when game still in doubt vs when game is decided?  I need more charts of the chicanery. 

[Js1 85,056]

2 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Personally I still don't understand based on my reading of it why Texas hasn't clinched but whatever.  

Because they fucking said so. That’s the reason 

[Nivek 16,808]

How do we avoid big12 in neutral and bowl games ? 

We want the b12 teams because they wont be protected by their refs (bowl game refs are not from the conference of either school).

We don’t want their crews if we can avoid them. For this bowl season we might draw an SEC crew which could be in our favor.

[Tex Pete 20,136]

2 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

Oh I’m stopping. Enjoy the pity party that is this aggy thread filled with hedged bets and insecurities

You can't argue the numbers. It happens to us over and over and over.

Not sure what point you think you're making.

[Auto Driller 2,504]

On 11/7/2023 at 11:31 AM, Auto Driller said:

Because I hate Big 12 refs and have too much time on my hands I decided to look at the data for this year’s conference games and try to figure out whether there is any validity to the idea that games are called different against us. I looked only at the teams that we have played so far (Kansas, OU, KSU, BYU, Baylor, Houston). Here is what I found:

Games not against Texas

——

Average penalties: 5.4

Average penalty yards: 48.9

Average opponent penalties: 5.4

Average opponent penalty yards: 45.9

 

Against Texas

——

Average penalties: 3.7

Average penalty yards: 26.0

Average opponent penalties: 6.2

Average opponent penalty yards: 48.5

 

Conclusions

——

Against Texas, an opponent can expect to be called for ~2 fewer penalties and ~26 fewer penalty yards than their average in Big 12 play. They can expect their opponent (Texas) to be called for ~1 additional penalty and ~3 additional penalty yards than average.

Officiating crews are, statistically speaking, having a much greater effect by failing to call penalties against our opponents than by calling extra penalties against us. This is consistent with the examination of holding / PI calls posted earlier in the thread.

I went back and updated the spreadsheet to account for the last two games against TCU and ISU. I also pulled in all conference games from weeks 4-11 that involved either of these teams (previously they were excluded). Here are the results:

Games not against Texas

——

Average penalties: 5.2

Average penalty yards: 44.4

Average opponent penalties: 5.0

Average opponent penalty yards: 40.9

 

Games against Texas

——

Average penalties: 4.0

Average penalty yards: 30.3

Average opponent (Texas) penalties: 6.4

Average opponent (Texas) penalty yards: 50.5

 

Conclusions

——

Our opponents can expect to be called for 1.2 fewer penalties for 14.1 fewer penalty yards than their average in conference play. They can expect their opponent (Texas) to be called for 1.4 additional penalties and 9.6 additional penalty yards relative to the average of their other conference opponents. 
 

TLDR we are getting consistently fucked to the tune of nearly 25 net penalty yards per game. The sample size is now 53 games. This is not random chance.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2,721]

No doubt Bellmont is sending in reports weekly of missed calls. The conference has made it clear they don’t care about how bad the officiating is. Sark has toed the line of what he is allowed to say in public without getting publicly reprimanded or fined by the conference. 
Im sure CDC is well aware we are already officiated against, but stops at giving them a ton of public ammo to make it worse. On July 1, 2024? Blast the fuck out of them when they can’t do anything to us anymore 

What can they do now? Can’t be any worse.

[dec3169 501]

16 hours ago, Cajun said:

He definitely has.  
 

I just wish for his and all of our sakes they’d quit showing his photo.

 

[statsman 5,406]

48 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

I went back and updated the spreadsheet to account for the last two games against TCU and ISU. I also pulled in all conference games from weeks 4-11 that involved either of these teams (previously they were excluded). Here are the results:

Games not against Texas

——

Average penalties: 5.2

Average penalty yards: 44.4

Average opponent penalties: 5.0

Average opponent penalty yards: 40.9

 

Games against Texas

——

Average penalties: 4.0

Average penalty yards: 30.3

Average opponent (Texas) penalties: 6.4

Average opponent (Texas) penalty yards: 50.5

 

Conclusions

——

Our opponents can expect to be called for 1.2 fewer penalties for 14.1 fewer penalty yards than their average in conference play. They can expect their opponent (Texas) to be called for 1.4 additional penalties and 9.6 additional penalty yards relative to the average of their other conference opponents. 
 

TLDR we are getting consistently fucked to the tune of nearly 25 net penalty yards per game. The sample size is now 53 games. This is not random chance.

Thats the gross impact, but I don’t think each crew is equally bad. None of the crews did us any favors, but some are worse than others. Here is what I have:

Rice-Salaam

Wyoming-Mar (bad, but didn’t matter)

BU-Anderson

KU-Boitmann 

OU-Alvarez (bad)

UH-VanderVelde (bad, until a decent spot at the end convinced everyone they were for us)

BYU-Anderson

KSU-Mar (bad)

TCU-Salaam

ISU-Boitmann (bad)

Johns did the OU-OSU game. 
 
Id like to see Salaam or Anderson again, but I fear we’ll get Alvarez or VanderVelde. Those two, and Mar, put the biggest screw to us over the last three years. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by statsman

[Frank Drebin 5,625]

Check out the spot they gave ISU at 47:18

https://youtu.be/Apw7mrm1ucU

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Frank Drebin

[Auto Driller 2,504]

9 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

Check out the spot they gave ISU at 47:18

https://youtu.be/Apw7mrm1ucU

 

 

A full 2 yards difference. 3rd and 3 instead of 3rd and 5.

My penalty analysis from above can’t/doesn’t account for fuckery like this, but it’s at least as significant as the penalties.

[Hard Times 296]

17 minutes ago, statsman said:

Thats the gross impact, but I don’t think each crew is equally bad. None of the crews did us any favors, but some are worse than others. Here is what I have:

Rice-Salaam

Wyoming-Mar (bad, but didn’t matter)

BU-Anderson

KU-Boitmann 

OU-Alvarez (bad)

UH-VanderVelde (bad, until a decent spot at the end convinced everyone they were for us)

BYU-Anderson

KSU-Mar (bad)

TCU-Salaam

ISU-Boitmann (bad)

Johns did the OU-OSU game. 
 
Id like to see Salaam or Anderson again, but I fear we’ll get Alvarez or VanderVelde. Those two, and Mar, put the biggest screw to us over the last three years. 

Looks like it's Alvarez or Vandervelde just based on probability. Either would suck.

[PvilleStang 2,843]

5 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Keep in mind...this includes the Bama game that was done by SEC officials.

 

So take 10 penalties off the total for us with Big 12 officals....

 

https://big12sports.com/stats.aspx?path=football&year=2023&conf=true

Edited November 20, 2023 by PvilleStang

[Hermanator 6,916]

3 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

This is a great point.   We still have to worry about the fuckery with officiating carrying over to other sports.  Don’t think for a minute as pretty as the Rig 12 leadershp is they won’t try especially if we manage to win the football title.   Basketball is ripe. 

I don't think we have the guards to win the Big 12 in basketball this year. We have good shooters but undersized and not as good defensively. Refs probably won't factor much into that by the end of it. Most likely Kansas wins again

[bigcigar 1,161]

3 hours ago, Dennis Taylor said:

If they don't call blatant holding thy aren't calling that either 

Yeah…that’s my point.

 

[UTGrad98 2,257]

The best thing that could possibly happen is Vegas saying there is a 1-3 point difference in the line in favor of any big 12 team when playing Texas due to statistical officiating discrepancies they have observed in the past 2 seasons.

 

 

[Eskimohorn 5,610]

The second he made contact with the linemen he was fucked. Screenshots are incredibly deceptive cause the gif shows he never latches on for more than  half a second, and never pulls him sideways

Blackwell didnt just slip on his tea. He was held to prevent him from following the RB. Is the video also deceptive? Once you grab the back of the numbers and tug jersey thats a hold. You pretty much know its a hold when the Edge player cant move in the other direction. If a ref sees a hold like in the gif, they usually call it.

[Hagbard Celine 10,734]

2 hours ago, Auto Driller said:

I went back and updated the spreadsheet to account for the last two games against TCU and ISU. I also pulled in all conference games from weeks 4-11 that involved either of these teams (previously they were excluded). Here are the results:

Games not against Texas

——

Average penalties: 5.2

Average penalty yards: 44.4

Average opponent penalties: 5.0

Average opponent penalty yards: 40.9

 

Games against Texas

——

Average penalties: 4.0

Average penalty yards: 30.3

Average opponent (Texas) penalties: 6.4

Average opponent (Texas) penalty yards: 50.5

 

Conclusions

——

Our opponents can expect to be called for 1.2 fewer penalties for 14.1 fewer penalty yards than their average in conference play. They can expect their opponent (Texas) to be called for 1.4 additional penalties and 9.6 additional penalty yards relative to the average of their other conference opponents. 
 

TLDR we are getting consistently fucked to the tune of nearly 25 net penalty yards per game. The sample size is now 53 games. This is not random chance.

i would love to see a line chart which shows where the flags are thrown minutes 1-60 for all league games with only 2 lines: us, and everyone else averaged together

[Eskimohorn 5,610]

Oh I’m stopping. Enjoy the pity party that is this aggy thread filled with hedged bets and insecurities

Thank you. Your “but why male models” obtuseness is tired.

[Hagbard Celine 10,734]

6 hours ago, Dennis Taylor said:

thank you @Dennis Taylor for posting this clear pic which shows that i was wrong about the hold on murphy

clone63 has a towel rolled up on his left forearm so he is not reaching under murphy's left shoulder pad for what i thought was a hold

it was only illegal hands to the face, or facemasking

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Hagbard Celine

[FtheBig12 176]

Fans can't really have an effect on how bad we're getting screwed in this conference but there's one thing we can affect. Make it clear to the athletic department that they better never schedule a Big 12 team out of conference ever again. They're having a blast screwing us now but it won't be so much fun in a few years when no one is watching any of their conference games. Sure don't want them making a dime off our brand.

[Dennis Taylor 18,679]

12 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

thank you @Dennis Taylor for posting this clear pic which shows that i was wrong about the hold on murphy

clone63 has a towel rolled up on his left forearm so he is not reaching under murphy's left shoulder pad for what i thought was a hold

it was only illegal hands to the face, or facemasking

 

I'm glad I could help 

[Paul Wesley 3,277]

The block in the back on the punt is the flag I have the least issue with.  That dude had zero chance of affecting the play, but it was still a foul. 

The absurd PI against Watts for hand fighting while the ball sailed 10 yards out of bounds - not even close to PI and not even close to catchable.  Result?  3 points for ISU and a tie ballgame.

The ticky-tacky hold on our TD pass... shit, our D linemen get held far worse than that on literally every possession of every game.  That took 4 points from us.  

The "grounding" call where Worthy broke right and Quinn threw it left on a scramble drill and the ball went 35+ yards in the air - that's a judgement call where the officials have to decide whether the QB was trying to complete a touchdown pass, or if he was throwing the ball into the grass to avoid a sack.  It's a lot like an ump deciding whether a pitcher intended to hit the batter.  And I just literally cannot remember that being flagged when a QB is trying to complete a pass that far down the field, but miscommunicates with the receiver.  Never.  Not once.  That was bullshit.  It didn't affect the score, because Auburn hit a very difficult field goal anyway, but it was obvious fuckery, and you KNEW they were gonna flag it when they huddled up together 15 seconds after the play ended.    

The "procedure" penalty against Whittington... again, that's a reeeeeally soft call that you could probably flag multiple times every game, but it just never gets flagged.  

But, as others have said, it's not the calls on us as much as it's the failure to flag obvious penalties on our Big 12 opponents that's just so consistently 1-sided.  Our ball carriers and receivers got hit a step or two out of bounds all night in Ames.  Our D linemen got grabbed, held, and tackled all night with zero holding flags.  Worthy and Mitchell had at least two uncalled PI on very, very catchable balls where they were taken to the ground by the DB - one where Worthy is trying to come back for an under thrown deep ball.  Pretty good chance we get points there - first down at midfield instead of punting from our side of the field - if we get a flag on the most obvious PI call of the season.   

That jailbreak "screen" - Iowa State got 33 yards on a critical late drive where they scored 7 points, and it was OBVIOUS in real time that 3 of their linemen were between 7-8 yards downfield hunting for DB to block and the ball was completed past the line of scrimmage.  I can't remember down and distance, but there's a very high chance that's a drive-killer with any semblance of fair officiating (would have put them in 2nd and 20+ back on their side of the field instead of 1st down in our red zone).  That's also reviewable and was as obvious as can be had they taken a look.  It was a 43-yard difference in field position on what turned out to be a 7-point Iowa State drive.

And then a snap or two later, if Murphy doesn't get obviously held out in space on the subsequent TD, their QB would have been throwing it with an NFL DT right in his face (or yet again that same drive is stalled by an obvious 10-yard penalty).    

With any reasonable degree of even-handed officiating, this is a 20- to 24-point game.  

And as HC pointed out, we are repeatedly getting DEEP in the second half before our opponent gets a single penalty marked against them.  Then, just like in basketball, we might get 3 or 4 meaningless calls in the last possession or two (after the outcome is decided), so that the 8-0 penalty disparity ends up more like 8-5, and the league doesn't have to account for a comically 1-sided box score even though it was comically 1-sided officiating for the first 50+ minutes.  

Our record - and any reasonable eyeball test - says we're the best team with the best players in this Big 12, but -  miraculously - our NFL-caliber D line never gets held, and our NFL-caliber receivers never get interfered with.  The season-long penalty stats 100% illustrate the league fuckery, and it's happening while our conference commissioners repeatedly mock us and openly cheer for our opponents to beat us.    

Show me a clip where a league commissioner is giving spirited pep talk to one team for them to beat another team in his own league.