Everyone is in their corner, buckets of bleach stand at the ready, but barring unforeseen injuries, this debate is on tap for Wednesday, October 7.

Senator Kamala Harris vs. Vice President Mike Pence

Salt Lake City, Utah hosted by the University of Utah.

Fight Debate begins at 8:00 CDT

Moderator is Susan Page, Washington Bureau Chief-USA Today.

I have not located the topics considered for discussion.

The Commission has not as far as I can tell changed the debate format which is as follows:

"The debate will be divided into nine segments of approximately 10 minutes each. The moderator will ask an opening question, after which each candidate will have two minutes to respond. The moderator will use the balance of the time in the segment for a deeper discussion of the topic."

The Commission agreed to place the candidates further apart due to health and safety considerations. They will now be placed 12 feet apart instead of 7 feet. The Commission denied a request by the Biden campaign for the candidates to stand and instead the candidates will be seated.

The debate will air with no commercial interruptions.

 

For a while, I've felt like the real purpose of the Vice Presidential debate is to relive this.  Oh, how I long for the days when an incompetent, political lightweight ends his career best known for getting owned in a debate and for not being able to spell potato.  

Harris has been spending time in Utah this week, speaking to people getting to know the layout. She is thorough, we'll see how that goes. With Stepien testing positive for the Trump campaign as well as some of the other prep staff, that is going to complicate Pence's prep a little. He never seems very animated, though, so who knows?

This one should be much better than last week's shitshow.  Both candidates will show restraint and keep their emotions in check.  It might be a bore-fest, but that's what these debates are supposed to be.

19 minutes ago, Bojack said:

 

For a while, I've felt like the real purpose of the Vice Presidential debate is to relive this.  Oh, how I long for the days when an incompetent, political lightweight ends his career best known for getting owned in a debate and for not being able to spell potato.  

Dan Quayle was born 20 years too early

Fox is going to be brutal on Harris. She will provide a lot of boxes they love to tick. After last week's debacle, I wonder if the strategy will be to paint her as a harlot bully beating up a genteel Christian gentleman who would never be caught anywhere near a night club or red light district where the lights are low, the music is loud, and glistening skin is all around.

Any fireworks I'm expecting from the talking heads, not the debaters, so I agree with you @Fudge Nuggets. Be nice if policy is discussed this time to  get some of the Biden platform across to viewers.

15 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

This one should be much better than last week's shitshow.  Both candidates will show restraint and keep their emotions in check.  It might be a bore-fest, but that's what these debates are supposed to be.

Oh I don't know about bore-fest. I believe they've been saving Harris for this one moment, to unleash hell. Pence might as well be invisible as he's going to be nothing but a proxy for Harris to attack Trump. 

 

Keep your expectations in check. 

Kamala is GREAT with prepared remarks. She can go into a Senate hearing and dominate. She can plan out a busing attack on Biden and score some points. But she really struggles thinking on her feet. If she gets thrown a curveball, she'll most likely whiff. 

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Keep your expectations in check. 

Kamala is GREAT with prepared remarks. She can go into a Senate hearing and dominate. She can plan out a busing attack on Biden and score some points. But she really struggles thinking on her feet. If she gets thrown a curveball, she'll most likely whiff. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, this.  I think Pence actually has an edge here.  Particularly because a lot of folks have low expectations.

11 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Keep your expectations in check. 

Kamala is GREAT with prepared remarks. She can go into a Senate hearing and dominate. She can plan out a busing attack on Biden and score some points. But she really struggles thinking on her feet. If she gets thrown a curveball, she'll most likely whiff. 

 

 

 

 

Good news is, if true, the VP debate doesn’t really affect the outcome of the presidential race.

Edited October 5, 20206 yr by Voldemort86

Just now, Voldemort86 said:

Good news is, if true, the VP debate doesn’t really affect the outcome of the presidential race.

Hope so.. A boring, inconsequential VP debate is a result I'll gladly take. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bojack said:

 

For a while, I've felt like the real purpose of the Vice Presidential debate is to relive this.  Oh, how I long for the days when an incompetent, political lightweight ends his career best known for getting owned in a debate and for not being able to spell potato.  

It seems like a whole other innocent time, doesn't it?  That was such a beating that Quayle himself noticed it and tried to take umbrage but it came off sounding even worse. 

Edited October 5, 20206 yr by Horn Under a Bad Sign

A. Pence is a good debater.  He lies very smoothly and doesn’t get perturbed.

B. Harris does struggle a bit on her feet.  Off the cuff isn’t her strong suit.  
 

C.  I’m sure the Harris team is very cognizant of not coming off as an aggressive California liberal, but rather reassuring the public she’s ready for the job. Using Buttigieg as a stand in is very smart.
 

Pence will try to convince college educated whites and seniors that everything is okay and nothing to see here, return to your traditional GOP voting patterns.  That probably augers for a low key debate. A Joe Lieberman/Dick Chaney style grown ups in the room snoozer.
 

D. Short of a complete disaster, VP debates are totally inconsequential.  If Bush could survive Lloyd Benson annihilating Dan Quayle, this will barely move the needle.  Especially because Trump can’t stand to allow ANYONE, even Pence, into the spotlight.

Edited October 5, 20206 yr by Bateshorn

Sous vide egg bites for all who want it 

 

Pete not doing a good job playing Pence.. there's a woman in the room

Pence is an extremely stupid person who thinks he's smart and is comfortable lying with a smile on his face. That makes him great at "debate" in the way Ben Shapiro is great at "debate." The shameless lying makes it impossible for everyone to understand that he's actually been owned because, as BT pointed out recently, landing a huge blow in a debate requires a response from the other person acknowledging that they just got crushed. However, if your opponent isn't a college student with a microphone you quickly take away, you're also not going to win convincingly that way either, and the GOP needs a win. 

Harris will be well prepared and they've already started messaging that Pence will shamelessly lie throughout the debate, so I expect her to eagerly call out his lies and be able to explain why they're bullshit (which isn't hard since their lies are generally just completely the opposite of the truth). She should win easily but it won't look like a knockout.

You are correct about his demeanor, but trying to pin him on the facts ends up being kinda fruitless, because he simply cannot be ruffled. 
 

That’s what Kaine tried to do and it failed.  His shameless, calm lying sorta thwarts attempts to focus on the lying.  Instead you just note it’s a lie, then tell the story you want to tell.  As long as Harris avoids coming off as angry lady (which is such a bullshit misogynistic stereotype) the debate will be a draw and the Trump campaign will I’ve lost another week to mount a comeback. 
 

keep it boring, string.

Edited October 5, 20206 yr by Bateshorn

1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

You are correct about his demeanor, but trying to pin him on the facts ends up being kinda fruitless, because he simply cannot be ruffled. 
 

That’s what Kaine tried to do and it sorta failed.  His shameless, calm lying sorta thwarts attempts to focus on the lying.  Instead you just note it’s a lie, then tell the story you want to tell.  As long as Harris avoids coming off as angry lady (which is such a bullshit misogynistic stereotype) the debate will be a draw and the Trump campaign will I’ve lost another week to mount a comeback. 
 

keep it boring, string.

Agree. Scene that comes to mind is the pastor that is the counterpoint to the fire and brimstone blasphemous ebidooer hell and damnation pacing back and forth model. 
 

He pictures himself as the rock, while the other description would be the burning bush, IMO. 
 

Taking away the religious analogy, you can throw water on a lit shrub, but doesn’t do much for a rock except make it wet. 
 

 

 

And that one is hanging right over the plate, people. 

Responses should include isn't the President of the US sick after following his own advice?  Who supported it?  Is America better, stronger from it?  Can the country afford 4 more years of bad to worse decision making where people in power and their supporters, looking at you Pence, can gamble with their own lives in addition to those of Americans that are worse off?  Isn't leadership aimed at helping the overall conditions and concerns of the public and not just those of your supporters?  And if they failed at looking out for their own staff and backers, shouldn't the public be concerned for their own safety and livelihood?  It really writes itself--just remain calm and demanding of an answer.  

If nothing else, ask if there's a ballpark number of casualties that is acceptable to this administration before they enact standard safety and security measures for the current COVID crisis.  When is enough?  And if the president as his advertising suggests, could raise 10 million jobs, why is he waiting until his second term to do so?  How much of this do you, Mike Pence, support?  

Don't work on home runs, just enjoy the time you get to speak to Americans about making their lives better and what you would like to do to help them.  That should be sincere and deliver sincere responses.  We can't know everything which is why we'll consult and hire professionals that do--actual professionals and not lobbyists and donors.  

And the best part is that none of this is contingent on Pence's responses--they don't have any working ones or we'd be better off already. End it with If Republicans are not better off from their own leadership, why would Americans be?  Where is Trump right now?  Simply put, we're not safe and that's a global concern.  

Edited October 5, 20206 yr by Mdhorn

1 hour ago, Voldemort86 said:

Good news is, if true, the VP debate doesn’t really affect the outcome of the presidential race.

This one will, especially when the president is in a hospital. And Biden is at risk from everything at his age.  

11 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

This one will, especially when the president is in a hospital. And Biden is at risk from everything at his age.  

Yeah, I think this is going to be more important.  Either of those two guys could be dead by election day.  

54 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

You are correct about his demeanor, but trying to pin him on the facts ends up being kinda fruitless, because he simply cannot be ruffled. 
 

That’s what Kaine tried to do and it failed.  His shameless, calm lying sorta thwarts attempts to focus on the lying.  Instead you just note it’s a lie, then tell the story you want to tell.  As long as Harris avoids coming off as angry lady (which is such a bullshit misogynistic stereotype) the debate will be a draw and the Trump campaign will I’ve lost another week to mount a comeback. 
 

keep it boring, string.

That's what I mean. It doesn't take long to explain why and how their lies are lies.

Pence is effectively calm while smugly lying to your face, with a pained squint in his eyes.

But it's gonna be pretty easy for Harris to say "Weren't you the dude who headed the Coronavirus Task Force as 210,000 people – more than the entire population of Salt Lake City – died across our country?"

 

Yup. Just keep hammering are better off now than you were 4 years ago. 

 

7 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Dan Quayle was born 20 years too early

That's no joke. Trump can't even read potato.

pence is head of the coronavirus task force.

pence is the head cheerleader for donald fucking trump, who is currently down by ~double-digit points at the polls because he's a bad president.

let's keep our eye on the ball here.  hold serve, move on.

Why didn't she just borrow Jaime's? This doesn't seem like something you need to negotiate, just do it. If Kamala has it set up right, she'll look like a boss and Pence the Weakest Link.

8 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

 He never seems very animated, though, so who knows?

23 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

That's no joke. Trump can't even read potato.

Needs a picture and even then he might person man woman camera tv.

 

 

I expect a murder...

 

 

Hope Kamala Harris does well here, this is her one job prior to the election. 

I've been on the side of avoiding things that might be emotionally cathartic but unproductive, like talking about packing the supreme court, shredding whatever unqualified nominee Trump puts up for the Supreme Court, etc. 

But in this case, I've been waiting for Kamala to attack Trump and Mike Penis like a pissed off Tiger for months now. Just let me have it.

Kamala has a harder job than people think.  She has to critically analyze Pence’s arguments about the current administration and their policies and explain why they are bad for America while pumping up her and Uncle Joe’s policies in a Biden/Harris administration.  

But....she has to do this without sounding like the “angry Black woman” something others mistakenly label for Black women when they are fighting for something yet that same language and tone would be labeled as “passionate” by a man.

Her presidential campaign didn’t take off for obviously reasons, but I think that experience (and her experience in the Senate) really helps here meaning I think she’s found that sweet spot.  I’m not sure I’m going to watch as I think the debates are pointless, but it’s enticing to tune in to see Pence get uneasy when racial issues are brought up and Kamala gets Auntie on his ass. 

How did the VP debate go in 2016?  I can’t imagine Tim Kaine did much and fully expect Kamala will do much better.

3 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

How did the VP debate go in 2016?  I can’t imagine Tim Kaine did much and fully expect Kamala will do much better.

Kaine came across as smarmy and negative and lame. Like a schoolmarm. Pence won by a lot imo.

Pence didn't really do much at all, but Kaine presented himself as intellectual elite coastal technocrat type who has never worked with his hands in his life. Typical out of touch pissy pants politician dork. He was perfect for Hillary.

Edited October 5, 20206 yr by BradInATX

55 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Kaine came across as smarmy and negative and lame. Like a schoolmarm. Pence won by a lot imo.

Pence didn't really do much at all, but Kaine presented himself as intellectual elite coastal technocrat type who has never worked with his hands in his life. Typical out of touch pissy pants politician dork. He was perfect for Hillary.

Well this alone makes me think Kamala will do much better.

Well this alone makes me think Kamala will do much better.

Yeah. Kaine tried to play the disapproving vice principal role which doesn't really work against a white haired old man. Kamala will do better. But I do agree with Pete that Pence is better than most expect him to be.

Wrong thread

 

Edited October 5, 20206 yr by Horn Dog

2 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

 

That VP Communications Director--Katie Miller? Never thought I'd see a real life Bellatrix LeStrange, but it's 2020 and here we are. Hope someone in the Democratic Party can be Molly Weasley and defend Hogwarts against the Dark Arts.

7 hours ago, 406W30th said:

Pence is effectively calm while smugly lying to your face, with a pained squint in his eyes.

But it's gonna be pretty easy for Harris to say "Weren't you the dude who headed the Coronavirus Task Force as 210,000 people – more than the entire population of Salt Lake City – died across our country?"

 

This is my take as well.  Pence has been given one job: to head the Coronavirus Task Force.  It has succeeded in exactly one thing: nearly ridding us of Donald Trump.  But in every other regard, it has been a failure.  And that falls, at least in part, at Pence's feet.

Everything should be drawn back to that.  I don't care about the subject.  Education?  Well, I don't know how we can trust you to deal with schools when you've completely failed at containing Coronavirus.  China?  Well, I don't know how we can trust you to deal with China when you've completely failed at containing Coronavirus.  Climate change?  Well, I don't know how we can trust you to deal with the existential threat of climate change when you've completely failed at containing Coronavirus.  Healthcare--oh, come on.  You know the response to that.

26 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

31 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

Well this alone makes me think Kamala will do much better.

Yeah. Kaine tried to play the disapproving vice principal role which doesn't really work against a white haired old man. Kamala will do better. But I do agree with Pete that Pence is better than most expect him to be.

Well no doubt it will be tougher this go around with the Trump anchor tied to his ankle.

9 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

A. Pence is a good debater.  He lies very smoothly and doesn’t get perturbed.

B. Harris does struggle a bit on her feet.  Off the cuff isn’t her strong suit.  
 

 

10 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Keep your expectations in check. 

Kamala is GREAT with prepared remarks. She can go into a Senate hearing and dominate. She can plan out a busing attack on Biden and score some points. But she really struggles thinking on her feet. If she gets thrown a curveball, she'll most likely whiff. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm curious, is there really evidence of Kamala struggling on her feet other than the time when Tulsi smacked her? I know Tulsi got her good, but other than that, I remember her doing pretty well. I honestly seem to remember her getting a massive boost after one of the earlier debates. Having said all that, I've also trained my brain to erase shit at the end of every day 

Harris is not going to win any voters. The goal from the VP debate should just be to avoid a negative controversial statement. Maybe that doesn’t appeal to the people who want to see Pence whipped, but I don’t think the needle can be moved positively for Biden in the VP debate.

19 minutes ago, swraith said:

Harris is not going to win any voters. The goal from the VP debate should just be to avoid a negative controversial statement. Maybe that doesn’t appeal to the people who want to see Pence whipped, but I don’t think the needle can be moved positively for Biden in the VP debate.

I'm good with that goal. If she can get some good questions in and hold her own in return I'm going to be pretty happy.Voting has started, less than one month to the final day so keeping a steady crescendo through November would be great.

I’d like her to have some good omens at least. It doesn’t need to be a pistol whipping. But with Trump being covid positive, let’s not pretend that folks MIGHT be taking a closer look at both VPs. I’d say number one is that Kamala needs to actually appeal to the olds. Dont scare them back to Pence. 

They need to bring up all the times Pence lied to our faces about the availability of coronavirus testing. Over and over again. Lying motherfucker. 

Also ask him about the division of responsibilities in the response to the pandemic between he and Jared Kushner. Ask him who really has more power, he or Jared. I'd love to see how he reacts to that.