2020 VP Debates: Kamala Harris vs. Mike Pence; Special Guest: COVID-19

[Foosters 17691]

4 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

As it pertains to this debate, she wasn't. She shot down the green bill, and shot down raising taxes on anyone making under 400k. Her only far left statement was believing that women should have the right to choose what happens to their bodies. Unless I am missing something she kept it pretty close to home.

Weird that an evangelical like Pence would sidestep the question about Roe if it's such an unpopular, far-left position.

[bad_teammate 13125]

Just now, Cairn Horn88 said:

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, never shy to weigh in on the controversies of the day, said she thinks "it's really dumb" for San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick and others to refuse to stand for the national anthem.

In the interview, Ginsburg steers clear from criticizing presidential candidate Donald Trump but calls the rhetoric from the election cycle "distressing."

[Thatguy 8478]

7 minutes ago, Dark Horse said:

That’s not a far left position unless 60-70% of the country is far left. 
 

The Overton window in the United States is insane. 

 

5 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Weird that an evangelical like Pence would sidestep the question about Roe if it's such an unpopular, far-left position.

  Lol. That was framed that way for GR Horn, and I would've gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids.

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Thatguy

[totallynotabuttpirate 5341]

14 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Just giving my opinion.  I'd be listed still as an undecided voter.  

 

I watched the entire thing.  Clearly took away their performances different than you.

If you're genuinely undecided right now:

A) You have been living deep underground for the last 4 years

B) Are voting for Trump

 

I mean what the fuck more do people need to see. Are you waiting for a nuclear war or something? A million people dead? 

 

 

[Reynolds Woodcock 4656]

14 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Just giving my opinion.  I'd be listed still as an undecided voter.  

 

You have seen 4 years of the Trump administration, and over 40 years of Biden as either a Senator or Vice President.  If you haven't made a decision one way or the other at this point, or would allow yourself to be influenced by a Vice Presidential debate, the problem lies with you and your analytical short comings. 

[Saint Tacky 1609]

22 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

No I mean how Pence is a more conventional politician, standard R smooth talker.  Harris is a good bit farther left than Biden, thus the difference. 

It should sound smooth. His sole mission was to run out the clock without being dragged into defending the indefensible. He said what he was prepared to say, regardless of whether it was on subject or not, and with no hesitation or misgivings about distorting the administration's record.   

10 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Weird that an evangelical like Pence would sidestep the question about Roe if it's such an unpopular, far-left position.

Mike Pence has dedicated his very being to overturning Roe v. Wade. If he could be granted one wish it would be to eliminate abortion entirely; however, purportedly 70% of the country believes that abortion should be legal and available, in one form or another. He bit his lip and said what he was prepared to say.  He didn't lie, but a heartfelt reply would have 1) put him on the wrong side of the majority opinion, and 2) on the defensive. When Pence is on the defensive, "smooth" goes by the wayside - as seen in his response to his handling of the pandemic. 

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Saint Tacky

[honolulu horn 6156]

13 minutes ago, Saint Tacky said:

It should sound smooth. His sole mission was to run out the clock without being dragged into defending the indefensible. He said what he was prepared to say, regardless of whether it was on subject or not, and with no hesitation or misgivings about distorting the administration's record.   

 

Holding strong to those Christian values he trumpets so much

[honolulu horn 6156]

I just kept thinking of this when watching Mike Pence last night. 

[Herpa Derpa 6105]

50 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Thought the moderator did a good job. Thought Pence did well.  Kamala was either not expecting him to be that in control.  Her Supreme Court non answer was really bad and she walked into the raising taxes comments.  Pence was unprepared for the ACA question and he was on defense regarding covid for the first 20 minutes.  The mansplaining/equal time stuff is horseshit.  She got more time speaking than him.

 

43 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

It went about as expected I think.  Pence as VP generally reflects well on Trump and makes his supporters feel better about supporting him.  Harris as VP nom reflects not as well on Biden (I’m just looking at how soundly she was rejected in campaign) and makes some of Biden’s supporters feel worse about supporting him. 

 

I see the echo chamber talking points have been disseminated.

[Neonmoon 38127]

 

1 minute ago, Herpa Derpa said:

Thought Pence did well.  Kamala was either not expecting him to be that in control.  Her Supreme Court non answer was really bad

"Hey guys, did you see that one time where she didn't answer a question. Pence won"

Pence not answering half the questions - "He did a good job of controlling the narrative"

Cognitive dissonance

[TexEx15 17444]

1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

He ran for the DNC chair a few years ago. 

He'll be a part of Biden's administration if I had to guess. 

Would love to see him as Chief of Staff.

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

I think Van Jones had it right: Mike Pence is the best public representative of the modern form of GOP conservatism. At worst, she went toe to toe with him and didn’t let him define the ticket’s position on any issue, which is what Tim Kaine did. At no point was there a question whether she belonged on that stage or was up to the task. 
But here’s the thing. Women in the workforce have a set of experience that I see every day. Mike Pence, for all of his politics skill, recreated those experiences on a national stage last night for the world to see. And Senator Harris did what they wish they could: she demanded equal time and reminded him when she was speaking while smiling and retaining her composure. 

[babysdaddy 2711]

4 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

 

"Hey guys, did you see that one time where she didn't answer a question. Pence won"

Pence not answering half the questions - "He did a good job of controlling the narrative"

Cognitive dissonance

there is nothing inconsistent about the thoughts.  Maybe just how one values certain questions over others.  

[honolulu horn 6156]

4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I think Van Jones had it right: Mike Pence is the best public representative of the modern form of GOP conservatism. At worst, she went toe to toe with him and didn’t let him define the ticket’s position on any issue, which is what Tim Kaine did. At no point was there a question whether she belonged on that stage or was up to the task. 
But here’s the thing. Women in the workforce have a set of experience that I see every day. Mike Pence, for all of his politics skill, recreated those experiences on a national stage last night for the world to see. And Senator Harris did what they wish they could: she demanded equal time and reminded him when she was speaking while smiling and retaining her composure. 

Couldn't agree more. This was my main takeaway too. It wasn't what either candidate said, it was how it played out. Process, not content. Old white guy interrupting and talking over a woman of color. Even more than that, Pence (again regardless of content) appeared dull, boring, and unlikeable. Harris was energetic, engaging, and personable. It a big reason why Bush beat Gore. Wpmen who watched the debate last night resonated with Harris. 

[jimmyjazz 45513]

7 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

But here’s the thing. Women in the workforce have a set of experience that I see every day. Mike Pence, for all of his politics skill, recreated those experiences on a national stage last night for the world to see. And Senator Harris did what they wish they could: she demanded equal time and reminded him when she was speaking while smiling and retaining her composure. 

. . . and it's sad that she is saddled with a higher burden of maintaining composure, lest she be thought of as an uppity bitch (and I'm ignoring skin color).

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

reminded him when she was speaking while smiling and retaining her composure. 

Apparently, the talking point is that is seen as scolding him, matron splaining, feminazism, and being a nag. Sigh.

[SimonBolivar 10897]

I know people on both sides loathe Van Jones, but I've really enjoyed his commentary during this election cycle.

Edited October 8, 2020 by SimonBolivar

[jimmyjazz 45513]

9 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

Even more than that, Pence (again regardless of content) appeared dull, boring, and unlikeable. Harris was energetic, engaging, and personable.

This viewpoint is unique to confident, intelligent people.  Harris doesn't threaten you.  She threatens the dull, the dim-witted, the uneducated, and yes, the misogynists and bigots.

The best lesson I ever learned from a boss was early in my career: 

"A's hire A's.  B's hire C's." 

Harris is an "A".  She threatens everyone who is not an "A".

 

 

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21022]

59 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Just giving my opinion.  I'd be listed still as an undecided voter.  

 

I watched the entire thing.  Clearly took away their performances different than you.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

6 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Apparently, the talking point is that is seen as scolding him, matron splaining, feminazism, and being a nag. Sigh.

it's a talking point, but it's a losing one.  they'll do their jobs to come up with something stupid to say, but every time they do, they just remind one more voter that they are the party of the stupid.

[babysdaddy 2711]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

She got more time because the moderator was forced to let her respond when Pence trampled all over the rules.

Your Trump vote is duly noted.

 

Mary Katharine is married to Amy Walters, the political analyst from the Cook Report I mentioned on the Senate thread.  She is not a Republican or conservative.  

 

Anyhow, VP debates don't move the needle

 

[mchookem 16094]

18 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I think Van Jones had it right: Mike Pence is the best public representative of the modern form of GOP conservatism. At worst, she went toe to toe with him and didn’t let him define the ticket’s position on any issue, which is what Tim Kaine did. At no point was there a question whether she belonged on that stage or was up to the task. 
But here’s the thing. Women in the workforce have a set of experience that I see every day. Mike Pence, for all of his politics skill, recreated those experiences on a national stage last night for the world to see. And Senator Harris did what they wish they could: she demanded equal time and reminded him when she was speaking while smiling and retaining her composure. 

honestly it's not even just the workforce...get together socially with a mixed-gender crowd, men still talk over the women.

mostly it's harmless, but if it's a topic i happen to follow and know a lot about (such as Longhorn football) i can get downright annoyed. i mean, annoyed in a congenial, 'friendly' way'...but it does bug the shit out of me. bugs me more as i've gotten older.  

Edited October 8, 2020 by mchookem

[jimmyjazz 45513]

3 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

 

Mary Katharine is married to Amy Walters, the political analyst from the Cook Report I mentioned on the Senate thread.  She is not a Republican or conservative.  

 

Anyhow, VP debates don't move the needle

 

Why did you quote me?  I acknowledged the equal time.  I explained how they ended up equal.  The rest of your post doesn't address the latter, it just hand-waves it away.  I don't care who Mary Katherine is married to or what her political bent is, her inability to either see or recognize the obvious is on her.

[Thatguy 8478]

6 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

 

Mary Katharine is married to Amy Walters, the political analyst from the Cook Report I mentioned on the Senate thread.  She is not a Republican or conservative.  

 

Anyhow, VP debates don't move the needle

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-sen-kamala-harriss-telling-vice-president-mike-pence-i-am-speaking-is-resonating-with-so-many-women-online-2020-10-07

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

6 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

 

 

 

Anyhow, VP debates don't move the needle

 

For trump supporters and "independents", apparently NOTHING moves the needle.  That has been made abundantly clear.

[wildcat09 29187]

1 hour ago, babysdaddy said:

Just giving my opinion.  I'd be listed still as an undecided voter.  

 

I watched the entire thing.  Clearly took away their performances different than you.

This is a Trump voter.

[MissingInAction 24765]

I would like to sex Kamala. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

This is a Trump voter.

Yep but too embarrassed to admit it.

Pathetic, weak, and stupid.

[Goredho 17301]

I thought Pence looked awful.  Worse than I have ever seen him.

[C-Man 26991]

I thought Pence looked awful.  Worse than I have ever seen him.

That’s funny satire. Allow me to post an actual screenshot from last night:

[babysdaddy 2711]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Why did you quote me?  I acknowledged the equal time.  I explained how they ended up equal.  The rest of your post doesn't address the latter, it just hand-waves it away.  I don't care who Mary Katherine is married to or what her political bent is, her inability to either see or recognize the obvious is on her.

She had a few other tweets behind that commenting on your exact latter point.

 

[Horn Dogg 3805]

8 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

I would like to sex Kamala. 

Pence would like to sex you if you’re a dude!

[Beau Vine 53964]

[Thatguy 8478]

29 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Apparently, the talking point is that is seen as scolding him, matron splaining, feminazism, and being a nag. Sigh.

  As a father that is trying his best to raise a strong, intelligent woman. Someday I hope this bullshit rhetoric will go the way of the N word in the black community.

 

5 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

She had a few other tweets behind that commenting on your exact latter point.

 

This is always the move, and should be hereby known as the Candace Owens. Find someone of the particular group(that you are having the disagreement with) that agrees with your position and post their thoughts as if this speaks to how the majority feels on said subject.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Thatguy

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

23 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

It wasn't what either candidate said, it was how it played out. Process, not content.

QFMFT

24 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

. . . and it's sad that she is saddled with a higher burden of maintaining composure, lest she be thought of as an uppity bitch (and I'm ignoring skin color).

And she is, and women are, and they know it, and that's why it's resonating so strongly. 

24 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Apparently, the talking point is that is seen as scolding him, matron splaining, feminazism, and being a nag. Sigh.

Yes it is, and that talking point is just underlining the above point. 

15 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

 

Three minutes of watching the vice president of the United States disrespecting both a black woman who happens to be a sitting Senator and the female debate moderator on national television is an eternity.

[Brisketexan 104462]

25 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I know people on both sides loathe Van Jones, but I've really enjoyed his commentary during this election cycle.

I find him to be what he is -- a good political spinner.  But he also cracks me up on occasion.  And really, that's all I ask -- if we're going to live through the apocalypse, at least entertain me.

22 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

This viewpoint is unique to confident, intelligent people.  Harris doesn't threaten you.  She threatens the dull, the dim-witted, the uneducated, and yes, the misogynists and bigots.

The best lesson I ever learned from a boss was early in my career: 

"A's hire A's.  B's hire C's." 

Harris is an "A".  She threatens everyone who is not an "A".

Solid observation.

10 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-sen-kamala-harriss-telling-vice-president-mike-pence-i-am-speaking-is-resonating-with-so-many-women-online-2020-10-07

Yeah....if you don't think this resonated like a MF with a shitload of women, you haven't been paying attention to any women ever.  My wife regularly has that frustration -- even exhibited by the fact that both of us have leadership positions in the same organization.  She can present an idea, and she gets talked over, or ignored.  I can then follow up, minutes later, expressing the SAME idea, and it is given weight and credibility.  I have literally seen her eyes get bugged-out in anger as it happens.

Smart women deal with this all the fucking time.  And man, does it piss them off.

[Ghost of LL 15348]

27 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I think Van Jones had it right: Mike Pence is the best public representative of the modern form of GOP conservatism. At worst, she went toe to toe with him and didn’t let him define the ticket’s position on any issue, which is what Tim Kaine did. At no point was there a question whether she belonged on that stage or was up to the task. 
But here’s the thing. Women in the workforce have a set of experience that I see every day. Mike Pence, for all of his politics skill, recreated those experiences on a national stage last night for the world to see. And Senator Harris did what they wish they could: she demanded equal time and reminded him when she was speaking while smiling and retaining her composure. 

I see it, too.  You don't have to be a woman to recognize Pence.  I don't know about "mansplaining"--a term I loathe, by the way--but his refusal to yield and persistent interruptions conveyed a lack of respect.

I've said it before about litigators, and I think it applies equally well to politicians (both of whom, after all, are trying to persuade): women have a harder time, but they have a higher ceiling.  A woman needs to be sufficiently assertive so as not to be "weak" or "soft," but not so assertive as to be a "bitch."  She needs to be knowledgeable, but not show herself to be so knowledgeable that she threatens a man's ego.  She needs to be attractive (speaking broadly here of everything from hair to clothing), but not too attractive.  

It's a really fucking tight needle to thread.  

But when they thread it, it's really tough to counter.  As a man, a woman who threads that needle can get away with murder.  She can talk over you, but if you do anything you look like a misogynist asshole.  She can throw down all sorts of facts, but if you try to throw down some facts of your own, you're "mansplaining."  

I'm speaking from experience on this one.  The best advocate I ever saw was a woman who threaded that needle.  And she took it to one of my partners.  He had a rough day going against her.

I thought Harris threaded that needle last night.  And it made it very difficult for Pence.  He made it worse for himself, but let's not understate what a good job Harris did in setting Pence up to make himself look bad.

['stache 21743]

She should have found a way to list off trumps twitter storm from earlier that day and ask him  if he agrees with that madness. "Do you agree with your running mate that all of his political enemies, including Joe Biden, should be prosecuted for something? If you were to become president would you continue asking that everyone who has ever campaigned against him be arrested? Have you seen the intelligence he's talking about? Do you think its effective leadership to complain on twitter all day about your opponents?"

I heard a radio clip a few months ago of Pence at a high school forum and a kid asks him about the presidents bullying and if he agreed with it, or something like that. Pence laughs it off and says something about how their styles are "different."

Stop laughing motherfucker. You are complicit in his madness like all of the republican party. Our country is a laughing stock because of him, and you just sit back and pretend it's no big deal. Fuck you, and fuck anyone still voting for these dangerous lunatics.

[Dahobbs 17420]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

It went about as expected I think.  Pence as VP generally reflects well on Trump and makes his supporters feel better about supporting him.  Harris as VP nom reflects not as well on Biden (I’m just looking at how soundly she was rejected in campaign) and makes some of Biden’s supporters feel worse about supporting him. 

You admitted you didn't watch a second of it in between your drive by meme nonsense. But, I'm sure everyone is happy to know your (un)informed, and consistently stupid, opinion. 

13 hours ago, GRHorn said:

I didn’t watch a second of it. 
 

I’m just glad to see here that Kamala Harris has so drastically improved since her Presidential campaign. She is now a solid debater, with an A+ personality. Very likable. 
 

Unfortunately your heavy negs say otherwise. CR very insecure over Harris performance. Will it matter? We’ll see. Maybe Trump will take some cues from Pence. 

 

[babysdaddy 2711]

18 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This is a Trump voter.

No

15 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Yep but too embarrassed to admit it.

Pathetic, weak, and stupid.

Appreciate your contribution, as always.

[SquishMitten 10395]

My take was last night The moderator was probably the worst one that I have ever seen.
this morning after reflecting I wonder if she was having to choose between doing a good job moderating and risking providing clips of her forcefully interrupting, feeding into their narrative that the media is against them.

This was my thought throughout the whole thing. Kamala was, with maybe one or two exceptions, responsive to the moderator when her time was called. Pence was the exact opposite. If you go back and count, the times Susan interrupted each candidate will already show like a 40:1 ratio. I’m sure that was playing a lot on her mind.

I think it could be resolved with having the clock on the screen, and their mic gets shut off 5-10 seconds after their time expires. Alternatively, once the timer hits zero, it starts running back up again. Then it gets added to the next person’s time on the following question.

[Dark Horse 2257]

2 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

No

Appreciate your contribution, as always.

Gary Johnson ain’t walking through that door. 

[babysdaddy 2711]

 

 

[Dahobbs 17420]

42 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

there is nothing inconsistent about the thoughts.  Maybe just how one values certain questions over others.  

LOL. 

[Underdog 28437]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

 

2,1 

['stache 21743]

She also missed a layup on the healthcare question. "You've had four years Mr. Vice President. You have told the American people multiple times that a healthcare proposal is coming "in a few weeks." Where is it Mr. Vice President? How can anyone take you seriously on healthcare anymore?"

[Underdog 28437]

12 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

 

 

No idea what’s going on with the cranberry juice but shit’s hilarious. 

[Dark Horse 2257]

2 minutes ago, Underdog said:

No idea what’s going on with the cranberry juice but shit’s hilarious. 

You’re behind on your memes.

 

[bad_teammate 13125]

3 minutes ago, Underdog said:

No idea what’s going on with the cranberry juice but shit’s hilarious. 

 

[Ghost of LL 15348]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

She also missed a layup on the healthcare question. "You've had four years Mr. Vice President. You have told the American people multiple times that a healthcare proposal is coming "in a few weeks." Where is it Mr. Vice President? How can anyone take you seriously on healthcare anymore?"

You and I would've done things a bit differently.  We have that latitude.

Kamala Harris is a black woman.  As such, she has a much tighter needle to thread.  If she had pursued as aggressively as you suggest she should have, she could've easily fallen into the trap of being a "bitch."  She would've made Pence the victim, rather than the asshole.

These debates aren't about policy substance.  They're about feels.  She won the feels.