2020 VP Debates: Kamala Harris vs. Mike Pence; Special Guest: COVID-19

[TexasEd 8062]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

. . . and it's sad that she is saddled with a higher burden of maintaining composure, lest she be thought of as an uppity bitch (and I'm ignoring skin color).

I think the "uppity" part covered race.

[elfenix 34168]

3 minutes ago, Dark Horse said:

You’re behind on your memes.

 

ocean spray bought that dude a new truck

[purplepride95 6890]

[Thatguy 8478]

43 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Yep but too embarrassed to admit it.

Pathetic, weak, and stupid.

 

27 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

No

Appreciate your contribution, as always.

and there it is......

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

2 minutes ago, purplepride95 said:

That fly grabbed him by the phallicle.

[bad_teammate 13125]

5 minutes ago, elfenix said:

ocean spray bought that dude a new truck

Good. I appreciate wholesome memes.

[Skipper 6088]

7 minutes ago, 'stache said:

She also missed a layup on the healthcare question. "You've had four years Mr. Vice President. You have told the American people multiple times that a healthcare proposal is coming "in a few weeks." Where is it Mr. Vice President? How can anyone take you seriously on healthcare anymore?"

Agreed.  I raised 3 weeks ago the biggest potential weakness for the D's is how they answer the court packing question and on the R side the fact that they don't have any kind of healthcare plan despite Trump (for some idiotic reason) continuing to promise one.     Neither Biden nor Trump did a good job hammering the other on this the first debate.   Pence did a good job hammering this home last night.   She still missed an opportunity.  She should have attacked it the exact way Pence attacked her non-answer because he doesn't have an answer either.

I still don't know what the right answer for the court packing question is strategically but refusing to answer it isn't a good luck (and it's going to continue to come up).  I still lean towards just lying and doing it later anyways.   That's obviously what the R's would do if the tables were turned.

[bad_teammate 13125]

The Democrats can't look good on healthcare because their values on it are completely awful. The Biden/Harris dream result is 10M uninsured Americans with the rest dependent on a complex set of healthcare choices made yearly on a website that will probably crash all the time. Less monstrous than the GOP, but still monstrous and morally indefensible. Horrible human beings led by corporate paymasters. Garbage.

Regarding court packing, Skipper is 100% correct. Lie and then do it anyway.

[DDD Dad 14167]

40 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I see it, too.  You don't have to be a woman to recognize Pence.  I don't know about "mansplaining"--a term I loathe, by the way--but his refusal to yield and persistent interruptions conveyed a lack of respect.

I've said it before about litigators, and I think it applies equally well to politicians (both of whom, after all, are trying to persuade): women have a harder time, but they have a higher ceiling.  A woman needs to be sufficiently assertive so as not to be "weak" or "soft," but not so assertive as to be a "bitch."  She needs to be knowledgeable, but not show herself to be so knowledgeable that she threatens a man's ego.  She needs to be attractive (speaking broadly here of everything from hair to clothing), but not too attractive.  

It's a really fucking tight needle to thread.  

But when they thread it, it's really tough to counter.  As a man, a woman who threads that needle can get away with murder.  She can talk over you, but if you do anything you look like a misogynist asshole.  She can throw down all sorts of facts, but if you try to throw down some facts of your own, you're "mansplaining."  

I'm speaking from experience on this one.  The best advocate I ever saw was a woman who threaded that needle.  And she took it to one of my partners.  He had a rough day going against her.

I thought Harris threaded that needle last night.  And it made it very difficult for Pence.  He made it worse for himself, but let's not understate what a good job Harris did in setting Pence up to make himself look bad.

I hope that was Brisket and not me.

Edited October 8, 2020 by DDD Dad

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

1 minute ago, Skipper said:

Agreed.  I raised 3 weeks ago the biggest potential weakness for the D's is how they answer the court packing question and on the R side the fact that they don't have any kind of healthcare plan despite Trump (for some idiotic reason) continuing to promise one.     Neither Biden nor Trump did a good job hammering the other on this the first debate.   Pence did a good job hammering this home last night.   She still missed an opportunity.  She should have attacked it the exact way Pence attacked her non-answer because he doesn't have an answer either.

I still don't know what the right answer for the court packing question is strategically but refusing to answer it isn't a good luck (and it's going to continue to come up).  I still lean towards just lying and doing it later anyways.   That's obviously what the R's would do if the tables were turned.

Mr. Whiggins?

My husband made the same point last night w/respect to SCOTUS. I argued it would not change such a divided electorate, but he insists that they need to address it, even if prior to that they press the point regarding the Senate stalling/McConnell and such first.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

The Democrats can't look good on healthcare because their values on it are completely awful. The Biden/Harris dream result is 10M uninsured Americans

Can we derail for a minute and talk about this? Ignore the GOP, they have Feudalcare as far as I can tell. But I saw the figure (was it Biden) or maybe it was you? that something like 27 million have none and it would be reduced, but there would be ~ the 10 million you mention above. So, what is the deal with that? What is the cause for the gap? Does lack of facilities get lumped in with that or something?

[Ghost of LL 15348]

6 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I hope that was Brisket and not me.

It wasn't you.

I could swear that I've told you that story.

[TexasEd 8062]

1 hour ago, babysdaddy said:

 

Mary Katharine is married to Amy Walters, the political analyst from the Cook Report I mentioned on the Senate thread.  She is not a Republican or conservative.  

 

Anyhow, VP debates don't move the needle

 

The reason why this is a topic is that the perception is that Pence talked over everyone.  Maybe there was additional time added to Harris because of that to make it even but the referee still had to throw the holding flag and back Pence up over and over and Harris had to make her case that Pence was interrupting or taking extra time.

That is reality, it happened. 

The Perception is that Pence had more time and was rude.  The reality is time was basically equal but unless you had a stopwatch arguing about the time of possession is stupid because people walked away with the Perception that Pence was just a more polite version of Trump.

I argue that point alone gives the win to Harris.  Nothing else mattered except that perception.

Edited October 8, 2020 by TexasEd

[washparkhorn 9931]

1 hour ago, babysdaddy said:

 

Mary Katharine is married to Amy Walters, the political analyst from the Cook Report I mentioned on the Senate thread.  She is not a Republican or conservative.  

Kathryn Ham and Mary Katherine Ham are two different people. Kathryn Ham is married to Amy Walter. Mary Katherine Ham is a conservative author - very mainstream Repub pre-Trump. Easy mistake to make.

[DDD Dad 14167]

It wasn't you.
I could swear that I've told you that story.

You probably did. It reminds me of another hearing with a female attorney colleague who went up against a male friend of mine and said, “you’re so mean” in court. I imagine you recall that one too.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

1 minute ago, TexasEd said:

The reason why this is a topic is that the perception is that Pence talked over everyone.  Maybe there was additional time added to Harris because of that to make it even but the referee still had to throw the holding flag and back Pence up over and over and Harris had to make her case that Pence was interrupting or taking extra time.

 

That is reality, it happened.  The Perception is that Pence had more time and was rude.  The reality is time was basically equal but unless you had a stopwatch arguing about the time of possession is stupid because people walked away with the Perception that Pence was just a more polite version of Trump.

Game show debates with a buzzer and a countdown clock coming soon to virtual arena near you...

[Sbbruin 21697]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

This viewpoint is unique to confident, intelligent people.  Harris doesn't threaten you.  She threatens the dull, the dim-witted, the uneducated, and yes, the misogynists and bigots.

The best lesson I ever learned from a boss was early in my career: 

"A's hire A's.  B's hire C's." 

Harris is an "A".  She threatens everyone who is not an "A".

 

 

 

So she is a major liability.  Because the the percentage of "A's" in this country is ever-dwindling.

[babysdaddy 2711]

8 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Kathryn Ham and Mary Katherine Ham are two different people. Kathryn Ham is married to Amy Walter. Mary Katherine Ham is a conservative author - very mainstream Repub pre-Trump. Easy mistake to make.

ah well shit, my bad

[BurntOrange&White 39486]

27 minutes ago, elfenix said:

ocean spray bought that dude a new truck

Yup and that video boosted Fleetwood Mac sales something like 400+%

[Herpa Derpa 6105]

17 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Mr. Whiggins?

My husband made the same point last night w/respect to SCOTUS. I argued it would not change such a divided electorate, but he insists that they need to address it, even if prior to that they press the point regarding the Senate stalling/McConnell and such first.

Question.  I always thought your handle was a Carol Burnett reference?  Please tell me it is (even if it's not).

 

[Horndog 2216]

2 hours ago, GRHorn said:

It went about as expected I think.  Pence as VP generally reflects well on Trump and makes his supporters feel better about supporting him.  Harris as VP nom reflects not as well on Biden (I’m just looking at how soundly she was rejected in campaign) and makes some of Biden’s supporters feel worse about supporting him. 

I'm glad I don't live in your world.

[SilasCoade 2620]

2 hours ago, babysdaddy said:

Just giving my opinion.  I'd be listed still as an undecided voter.  

 

I watched the entire thing.  Clearly took away their performances different than you.

There are no undecided voters when the differences are this stark. You are voting for trump and can't admit it publicly because you know he's a huge piece of shit. 

[bad_teammate 13125]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Can we derail for a minute and talk about this? Ignore the GOP, they have Feudalcare as far as I can tell. But I saw the figure (was it Biden) or maybe it was you? that something like 27 million have none and it would be reduced, but there would be ~ the 10 million you mention above. So, what is the deal with that? What is the cause for the gap? Does lack of facilities get lumped in with that or something?

In voluntary signup, there are going to be uninsured people that simply do not do it. Don't know how. Don't know it's an option. Don't realize they need it. Want to not spend any money and go without it on purpose. Any system that isn't auto-enroll is going to leave uninsured people. Any system that isn't auto-enroll AND requires payment is going to dramatically increase that # of uninsured people.

Such is the life of the means-tested social program.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

12 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

Question.  I always thought your handle was a Carol Burnett reference?  Please tell me it is (even if it's not).

It is sort of. Carol Burnett spelled it Wiggins. I have a friend and her name includes the 'h.' My mom was a big fan and after I'd watched them I thought her show was hilarious. I still go to YouTube sometimes just for a laugh. Hard to pick a fave episode. Lot of great sketches from their archive.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Mrs Whiggins
My friend is also a blonde and so it made for people giving her grief. She is also wicked smart, so they do that at their peril. My daughter is in the same STEM field and loved her mentorship.

[Brisketexan 104464]

27 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

I hope that was Brisket and not me.

It was me.

We did well in that case, but in the courtroom, she was a damned effective adversary -- she was just as aggressive and assertive as she could be without it coming across as "bitchy" (and it helped that she was petite -- gives her more latitude), and I had to be VERY careful in how aggressive I was in the pushback.  I am bigger, have a very commanding voice and presence, and I could easily have been perceived as trying to diminish/dominate her presence.  And we were in front of a female judge.

It was a real challenge to try to find the right line to walk.

[Beau Vine 53964]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

She should have found a way to list off trumps twitter storm from earlier that day and ask him  if he agrees with that madness. "Do you agree with your running mate that all of his political enemies, including Joe Biden, should be prosecuted for something? If you were to become president would you continue asking that everyone who has ever campaigned against him be arrested? Have you seen the intelligence he's talking about? Do you think its effective leadership to complain on twitter all day about your opponents?"

And he would have talked about how they built a great economy again.

Pass.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

In voluntary signup, there are going to be uninsured people that simply do not do it. Don't know how. Don't know it's an option. Don't realize they need it. Want to not spend any money and go without it on purpose. Any system that isn't auto-enroll is going to leave uninsured people. Any system that isn't auto-enroll AND requires payment is going to dramatically increase that # of uninsured people.

Such is the life of the means-tested social program.

Succinct and clear, thanks. Dang, that is a lot of people still. What mechanism would you use to get an auto-enroll?

[bad_teammate 13125]

6 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Succinct and clear, thanks. Dang, that is a lot of people still. What mechanism would you use to get an auto-enroll?

If you've got a gov't # (SS, DL, whatever) you've got Medicare.

Bing bong boom.

[jimmyjazz 45513]

28 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Kathryn Ham and Mary Katherine Ham are two different people. Kathryn Ham is married to Amy Walter. Mary Katherine Ham is a conservative author - very mainstream Repub pre-Trump. Easy mistake to make.

LMAO.  Thanks for fact-checking.  No points to babysdaddy.

[DDD Dad 14167]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It was me.

We did well in that case, but in the courtroom, she was a damned effective adversary -- she was just as aggressive and assertive as she could be without it coming across as "bitchy" (and it helped that she was petite -- gives her more latitude), and I had to be VERY careful in how aggressive I was in the pushback.  I am bigger, have a very commanding voice and presence, and I could easily have been perceived as trying to diminish/dominate her presence.  And we were in front of a female judge.

It was a real challenge to try to find the right line to walk.

Boop.

[Horndog 2216]

35 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I still don't know what the right answer for the court packing question is strategically but refusing to answer it isn't a good luck (and it's going to continue to come up).  I still lean towards just lying and doing it later anyways.   That's obviously what the R's would do if the tables were turned.

How about - The idea of adding justices is a hypothetical that has not been seriously discussed. It would require action by the duly elected representatives of both houses of congress.  The only reason it is even a topic of speculation is because of the epic duplicity and hypocrisy of Mitch McConnel and his band of Trump enablers, who egregiously failed in their constitutional duty to advise and consent on the nomination of Merrick Garland yet now feel compelled to push forward with the approval of a new Justice in record time, literally in the middle of an election and while several members of the Senate are contagious with a deadly virus that this administration  treated as an inconvenient hoax. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

2 minutes ago, Horndog said:

How about - The idea of adding justices is a hypothetical that has not been seriously discussed. It would require action by the duly elected representatives of both houses of congress.  The only reason it is even a topic of speculation is because of the epic duplicity and hypocrisy of Mitch McConnel and his band of Trump enablers, who egregiously failed in their constitutional duty to advise and consent on the nomination of Merrick Garland yet now feel compelled to push forward with the approval of a new Justice in record time, literally in the middle of an election and while several members of the Senate are contagious with a deadly virus that this administration  treated as an inconvenient hoax. 

You're hired!

[DDD Dad 14167]

NSIAP

 

[hobbes2702 12771]

22 minutes ago, Horndog said:

How about - The idea of adding justices is a hypothetical that has not been seriously discussed. It would require action by the duly elected representatives of both houses of congress.  The only reason it is even a topic of speculation is because of the epic duplicity and hypocrisy of Mitch McConnel and his band of Trump enablers, who egregiously failed in their constitutional duty to advise and consent on the nomination of Merrick Garland yet now feel compelled to push forward with the approval of a new Justice in record time, literally in the middle of an election and while several members of the Senate are contagious with a deadly virus that this administration  treated as an inconvenient hoax. 

[Brew 3044]

1 hour ago, Llogg said:

There are no undecided voters when the differences are this stark. You are voting for trump and can't admit it publicly because you know he's a huge piece of shit. 

If there happened to be someone undecided, what exactly would one be looking for right now to make a decision? Your explanation seems much more plausible.

[BradInATX 9208]

4 minutes ago, Brew said:

If there happened to be someone undecided, what exactly would one be looking for right now to make a decision? Your explanation seems much more plausible.

They are waiting for/instigating more liberals to be mean to them so that they can justify their Trump vote as "I was undecided but the liberals were bullies to me so I'm voting Trump", when in reality they were voting Trump the whole time.

Edited October 8, 2020 by BradInATX

[Beau Vine 53964]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

They are waiting for/instigating more liberals to be mean to them so that they can justify their Trump vote as "I was undecided but the liberals were bullies to me so I'm voting Trump", when in reality they were voting Trump the whole time.

AKA "The Scott Adams."

[honolulu horn 6156]

2 hours ago, Skipper said:

I still don't know what the right answer for the court packing question is strategically but refusing to answer it isn't a good luck (and it's going to continue to come up).  I still lean towards just lying and doing it later anyways.   That's obviously what the R's would do if the tables were turned.

This is exactly what they should do, unfortunately. 

[SizzleChest 8275]

9 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

AKA "The Scott Adams."

AKA, "Fuck Dilbert".

[Horn Dog 9644]

18 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

The blank stares and stunned silence after Pete absolutely destroys the hypocrisy argument is priceless.

[Prepuce of Doom 20969]

FingersCrossedGirl.gif

 

[jimmyjazz 45513]

Just now, Prepuce of Doom said:

FingersCrossedGirl.gif

 

No shit.

[wildcat09 29187]

 

[High Plains Drifter 10970]

7 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Social media right now is awash with women complaining about Pence--the interrupting, the talking over when the time was up, etc.

 

[SizzleChest 8275]

14 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

No shit.

 

[Pescado_Rojo 19327]

a female friend of mine posted this on FB. (Paraphrasing)

"Every woman knows Mike Pence. Donald Trump may be the face of your rapist, but Mike Pence is the face of the judge that always lets him off the hook". 

[DigglerontheHoof 21022]

1 minute ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

a female friend of mine posted this on FB. (Paraphrasing)

"Every woman knows Mike Pence. Donald Trump may be the face of your rapist, but Mike Pence is the face of the judge that always lets him off the hook". 

Damn, that's good. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

I love the court packing push back because it's so empty. 

Just because you have the power to do something, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. 

Republicans - We have the power to push through ACB. We have the President and the Senate. Deal with it. 

Democrats - So if we have the power to pack the court, how is that different?

It's always rules for thee, not for me

Edited October 8, 2020 by Neonmoon

[Bullneck 18976]

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89362]

11 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Social media right now is awash with women complaining about Pence--the interrupting, the talking over when the time was up, etc.

I didn't realize a lot of women in my family post on social media.