Cops kill black man in Wolfe City

[BabaYaga 15300]

If initial accounts are true, this cop needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  You often get what you pay for in small towns.  Some do it as a retirement gig from other departments and bring their baggage with them.  Other have ties with the community and additional sources of income.  But many work there because they can't get hired anywhere else.  Nor do they get so much as an ounce of actual, real world training.  Some entry cops make close to $20K/year.  It's a mess.  Have your GED?  Sign right here.

That being said, it looks like the system worked as designed and he's going to get his day in court.  

[BabaYaga 15300]

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

The police are already making that analogy.  You're either a perp or a shield...

Everyone makes this analogy to some extent.  It's not new.  Before Giuliani, NY was a "warzone" at night.  South side of Chicago....a "war zone".  Hyperbole and histrionics that don't help anyone.  

[52-80 19162]

2 hours ago, Serak The Preparer said:

So you don't see any disconnect in what you wrote? No potential cause for concern or irritation that after a clear murder, the cop was given 1-2 days to get story straight and game plan defense? You think that if you or I murdered in plain sight that we would have the same luxury?

I don't see anyone criticizing the Texas Rangers but perhaps this is why people aren't tripping over themselves to praise the Wolfe City PD.

Nobody called for praise of WCPD.  But they did grump that TR had to step in.  Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

 

And you don't see any disconnect between your role as a civilian and that of an LEO?  Is that a serious comparison?  Involvement in HOMICIDE is a possibility in that job.  MURDER will be determined in court. 

 

The cop shot someone as part of conflict they were called to, on Saturday night.  TR must have done prelim investigation on Sunday.  Got him the following day.  It's not exactly a fucking 'clear murder' by a guy on a rampage.

[Pato del Muerto 52507]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

One is actively patrolling a defined AOR with known combatants, unless we want to start making the policing equates to a warzone analogy.....that I think is even worse. 

Statistically, less than 5% of all LE's over the course of their ENTIRE careers actually discharge their firearms.  A negligent discharge can tank your entire career trajectory.  So it's a big F'ing deal when it happens.  But even 5% is too high.  Again, to me it falls back on MORE resources, not less - even in the way of selection and compensation to attract and keep a higher caliber of applicant that then needs constant subsequent training and review (back to the military analogy - which is exactly what they do).  They also need a way to quickly and efficiently punt those out of programs that are sub-par.  Many precincts have personnel shortages, so they can't afford to get rid of anyone unless it's blatant.  

If less than 5% of all cops ever shoot their gun, why do all cops need guns and why do they say it’s a super dangerous job?

[Bevo 13577]

2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

They train them to be scared of their own shadows.  They train them to fear for their lives at every encounter (even though statistics say that many jobs, including collecting the garbage and farming, are more dangerous than being a cop).  And we wonder why they react this way...

That isn't true of all organizations. MIB specifically hires people who hesitate enough to make the right decisions. The guys with heavy trigger fingers and who just follow orders usually get weeded out pretty quickly.

[Herbie Hancock 7356]

Stop, it’s not worth the effort. Certain people have made up their minds that this is a miscarriage of justice and dereliction of duty by the WCPD and no amount of facts or common sense will convince them otherwise.


That’s right, a whole three person police department. Not three per shift, three total.

[BabaYaga 15300]

18 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

If less than 5% of all cops ever shoot their gun, why do all cops need guns and why do they say it’s a super dangerous job?

Now do seatbelts, speed limits, and door locks...

[hobbes2702 13045]

11 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

Stop, it’s not worth the effort. Certain people have made up their minds that this is a miscarriage of justice and dereliction of duty by the WCPD and no amount of facts or common sense will convince them otherwise.


That’s right, a whole three person police department. Not three per shift, three total.

So you’re telling us they can’t do their job yet again so again the question is, why do we pay them?

[hobbes2702 13045]

28 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Nobody called for praise of WCPD.  But they did grump that TR had to step in.  Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

 

And you don't see any disconnect between your role as a civilian and that of an LEO?  Is that a serious comparison?  Involvement in HOMICIDE is a possibility in that job.  MURDER will be determined in court. 

 

The cop shot someone as part of conflict they were called to, on Saturday night.  TR must have done prelim investigation on Sunday.  Got him the following day.  It's not exactly a fucking 'clear murder' by a guy on a rampage.

I know right, it’s crazy to think that cops should be subjected to the same laws and same accountability that us citizens have to follow. I think the right way to go about things is to give them more authority (like the authority to take a life) but subject them to less accountability. That’s the ticket.

[Pato del Muerto 52507]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Now do seatbelts, speed limits, and door locks...

As soon as seat belts, door locks, and speed limits kill people I’ll be right there questioning their necessity. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Pato del Muerto

[Guest Lobo]

2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

As soon as swat belts, door locks, and speed limits kill people I’ll be right there questioning their necessity. 

I knew a seat belt once that would purposely release itself during a car crash if the person buckled in was black.  

There's a proactive societal good in having people wear seat-belts, use door-locks, and obey speed limits.  We're hard pressed as a nation to justify why we need 750,000 extra people running around with firearms, who prove time and time again, they couldn't de-escalate a fucking cup of coffee.  

Edited October 6, 2020 by Lobo

[staboner 4975]

holy shit we have some next level "cars kill people too" shit haha. that's gold. 

if that seatbelt had its way it would kill you and everyone you love!

[atomheartbevo 89686]

6 hours ago, Captainant said:

idk man, seems like there's alot of ins and outs and what have you's. Better call in the rangers just to be sure

Honestly, this is going to be the way going forward.  No local agencies want to arrest their own guys, and the local leadership doesn't want to force them to do the right thing, because of blowback from the police unions.

[Herbie Hancock 7356]

So you’re telling us they can’t do their job yet again so again the question is, why do we pay them?

I’ll tell you what, let’s roll with your “logic” here. Next time you or someone you know is experiencing chest pain and thinks they’re having a heart attack, don’t go to Seton or St. David’s. Drive your happy ass on over to Muenster Memorial hospital in Muenster, Tx because hey, a doctor is a doctor right?

If your house ever catches on fire, don’t call Austin FD. Call Rockdale FD, because hey a fireman is a fireman right?

[hobbes2702 13045]

3 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

I’ll tell you what, let’s roll with your “logic” here. Next time you or someone you know is experiencing chest pain and thinks they’re having a heart attack, don’t go to Seton or St. David’s. Drive your happy ass on over to Muenster Memorial hospital in Muenster, Tx because hey, a doctor is a doctor right?

If your house ever catches on fire, don’t call Austin FD. Call Rockdale FD, because hey a fireman is a fireman right?

Are those doctors tax payer funded? When did we get universal healthcare?

And Fireman don’t have the authority to kill people. They also don’t investigate crimes. They put out fires. So while there might be some difference in those fireman, they still can do their job which is to put out fires. If cops can’t do their job, you know, investigate crimes and arrest people, why do we pay them?

Edited October 6, 2020 by hobbes2702

[Huckleberry 32882]

3 minutes ago, Herbie Hancock said:

I’ll tell you what, let’s roll with your “logic” here. Next time you or someone you know is experiencing chest pain and thinks they’re having a heart attack, don’t go to Seton or St. David’s. Drive your happy ass on over to Muenster Memorial hospital in Muenster, Tx because hey, a doctor is a doctor right?

If your house ever catches on fire, don’t call Austin FD. Call Rockdale FD, because hey a fireman is a fireman right?

Uh, you're the one saying non-local outside agencies should handle things while he's saying local agencies should be able to do it. You just argued against yourself. 

[hobbes2702 13045]

3 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Uh, you're the one saying non-local outside agencies should handle things while he's saying local agencies should be able to do it. You just argued against yourself. 

I think my question is pretty simple and I’ve repeated it several times but all I’ve gotten are excuses for the cops not being able to do their job.

[Guest Lobo]

8 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Are those doctors tax payer funded? When did we get universal healthcare?

And Fireman don’t have the authority to kill people. They also don’t investigate crimes. They put out fires. So while there might be some difference in those fireman, they still can do their job which is to put out fires. If cops can’t do their job, you know, investigate crimes and arrest people, why do we pay them?

If crimefighters fight crime, and firefighters fight fire, what the hell do freedomfighters fight?  /georgecarlin 

[52-80 19162]

57 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I know right, it’s crazy to think that cops should be subjected to the same laws and same accountability that us citizens have to follow. I think the right way to go about things is to give them more authority (like the authority to take a life) but subject them to less accountability. That’s the ticket.

It's crazy that cops can carry firearms in places where you can't.  It's almost like they have different job requirements from you. 

 

It's like, I wouldn't expect men to wear skirts.  But I would expect you to.

[Huckleberry 32882]

12 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

It's crazy that cops can carry firearms in places where you can't.  It's almost like they have different job requirements from you. 

 

It's like, I wouldn't expect men to wear skirts.  But I would expect you to.

A white flag gif wouldn't have been as obvious a surrender as that last paragraph. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Huckleberry

[Jkwellborn 6704]

The article says that those who were at the scene (presumably not the police) said he was doing the right thing. I'm more inclined to believe the witnesses than the cops.

A buddy of mine saw it. The dead guy was by all accounts a real good guy. Heard he worked for the city. Dude tried to intervene in a domestic dispute supposedly. Cop rolls up, tazes him, then shoots him when that doesn’t incapacitate him. I don’t think he was on the ground though. I could be wrong.
After he shot the guy, he was saying this is bad and trying to hand cuff him supposedly.

[hobbes2702 13045]

18 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

It's crazy that cops can carry firearms in places where you can't.  It's almost like they have different job requirements from you. 

 

It's like, I wouldn't expect men to wear skirts.  But I would expect you to.

Thank you for illustrating the point. And then providing some exceptionally well crafted sexism.

[Pato del Muerto 52507]

Most of us are talking about the way things are. One or two of us are talking about the way we wish things were. 

why yes, it would be nifty if the police forces were able and willing to investigate and solve all crimes, including crimes potentially committed by friends and coworkers, and do so with professionalism, knowledge, and no bias. 
 

in that fictional world, sheriff Taylor usually didn’t carry his service weapon and his deputy was only allowed one cartridge, not kept in his revolver. 

[Herbie Hancock 7356]

A buddy of mine saw it. The dead guy was by all accounts a real good guy. Heard he worked for the city. Dude tried to intervene in a domestic dispute supposedly. Cop rolls up, tazes him, then shoots him when that doesn’t incapacitate him. I don’t think he was on the ground though. I could be wrong.
After he shot the guy, he was saying this is bad and trying to hand cuff him supposedly.

I met Jonathan on many occasions though I wouldn’t say I knew anything about him. My two cousins and several close friends were very close to him. They have all echoed what I thought to be true of the guy I ran in to quite frequently for about a year, and that is that he was an absolutely wonderful person with a heart of gold. I haven’t seen him in 13-14 years and honestly if it weren’t for those people mentioned above sharing the news article I may never have known it was him, but I felt a twinge yesterday when I found out. This world was better with Jonathan Price in it, of that I am certain.

[Updawg 2266]

It's crazy that cops can carry firearms in places where you can't.  It's almost like they have different job requirements from you. 
 
It's like, I wouldn't expect men to wear skirts.  But I would expect you to.

Maybe all cops shouldn’t have firearms. Especially if they aren’t stable enough to be responsible with them

[Updawg 2266]

The scary thing is there is a possibility we just decide to outsource our police.

 

Private sector is always better

[George 493]

The private prisons do need someone to keep them in business. 

[DanRydell 799]

4 hours ago, 52-80 said:

It's crazy that cops can carry firearms in places where you can't.  It's almost like they have different job requirements from you. 

 

It's like, I wouldn't expect men to wear skirts.  But I would expect you to.

What's wrong with wearing a skirt? You don't like a little breeze on your balls?

[InkaUtexas 25952]

I agree. Jeez, wear a kilt like a real man. 

[C-Man 27230]

11 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

If you come to us with a 100-dollar bill, we're not going to give you 2,000 nickels.

Unless you ask us to.

 

[C-Man 27230]

10 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

I get your point, but this is a horrible analogy.  PFC's don't so much as scratch their ass without permission.  While most branches of the service instill accountability and decision making abilities, this comes much, much later (in terms of acting on their own).  Nor are they EVER just turned lose in communities other than in show of force patrols.

The distinction of course is training as mentioned.  They need a shit load more of it.  Lots, and lots, and lots of training.  Most precincts operate on a shoe-string budget, especially these smaller locales.  They take mouth-breathers because that is their talent pool.  Guys that often adversely select themselves to the role due to a lack of other qualifications.  Then with minimal training on firearms, situational awareness, de-escalation training, & physical confrontation training, turn them lose in the communities.  Hell, even PFC rotate in and out.  They have workups, follow up training, etc.  These guys just "do the job" and we hope they get it right.  

Maybe we should stop issuing deadly weapons to mouth-breathers.

[BabaYaga 15300]

13 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

A buddy of mine saw it. The dead guy was by all accounts a real good guy. Heard he worked for the city. Dude tried to intervene in a domestic dispute supposedly. Cop rolls up, tazes him, then shoots him when that doesn’t incapacitate him. I don’t think he was on the ground though. I could be wrong.
After he shot the guy, he was saying this is bad and trying to hand cuff him supposedly.

You just described a tragedy of inept policing of the highest order.  A small town shit bag with a GED given a uniform and a gun, minimal training, and turned loose in the community.  If/when standards and resources go down, we're going to see more of this.  None of us were there, but from all accounts, this sounds like a panic/confusion induced shooting that cold have been prevented with a shit load more training.  

Bifurcating the LE roles is fine, send in unarmed whomever, but untrained officers like this are still going to be put into situational stressful environments and not know what to do.

[BabaYaga 15300]

7 hours ago, C-Man said:

Maybe we should stop issuing deadly weapons to mouth-breathers.

Or maybe we shouldn't even hire them in the first place.  Maybe with more resources you could actually have a robust vetting & selection process for the pipeline and enough compensation and requirements to attract higher caliber applicants and keep them.  

[BabaYaga 15300]

9 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

I agree. Jeez, wear a kilt like a real man. 

Damn right!

[RPM 26322]

Lucas was 22, had been a cop for 6 months and was riding solo. How many red flags can you spot in that sentence?

I doubt there's body cam because it's a 3 person PD, but I bet it's on dashcam or surveillance from the gas station.

From Price family's attorney:

Quote

"When police arrived, I’m told, he raised his hands and attempted to explain what was going on," Merritt wrote on Facebook. "Police fired tasers at him and when his body convulsed from the electrical current, they 'perceived a threat' and shot him to death."

Furtive movement when tased.

[JohnLocke 115]

This isn't the last time an incompetent poorly trained adrenaline & testosterone fueled cop is going to mistakenly shoot somebody.  I hope it is the beginning of a trend to hold them swiftly accountable for it.

[C-Man 27230]

55 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Or maybe we shouldn't even hire them in the first place.  Maybe with more resources you could actually have a robust vetting & selection process for the pipeline and enough compensation and requirements to attract higher caliber applicants and keep them.  

How many times in the modern history of Wolfe City has a peace officer needed a firearm to do his job? Really and truly needed one?

Edited October 7, 2020 by C-Man

[InkaUtexas 25952]

I was driving through there a few months ago. Judging by the population it would be more for right wing shit bags. Car parked next to me at the gas station was covered in the Confederate flag and had a nice "Confederate Girl" sticker across the back window. 

[BabaYaga 15300]

6 minutes ago, C-Man said:

How many times in the modern history of Wolfe City has a peace officer needed a firearm to do his job? Really and truly needed one?

Is that rhetorical?  Who knows?  Are you saying LE's all need to be disarmed to better complete their jobs?  I already stated I'm all for case workers, but not at the expense of better trained/vetted patrol officers.  

[C-Man 27230]

21 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Is that rhetorical?  Who knows?  Are you saying LE's all need to be disarmed to better complete their jobs?  I already stated I'm all for case workers, but not at the expense of better trained/vetted patrol officers.  

I'm simply throwing it out there. My guess is not much happens in Wolfe City. A police officer is required to do traffic patrol, perhaps break up some teenage kids drinking on country lanes, maybe break up the occasional drunken brawl at the local Choke & Puke. Based on Inka's post above, it sounds like your typical redneck Texas community.

I'm all for training and selecting from a better pool of candidates but how reasonable is that? If you're drawing from the community, it doesn't appear the candidate pool is very deep. Rather than arm the dregs of that community, de-escalate shit and give them Tasers and non-lethal shit like that.

[Jkwellborn 6704]

You know the cop tased the guy before he shot him right?

[Gene Parmesan 4007]

1 minute ago, Jkwellborn said:

You know the cop tased the guy before he shot him right?

Yeah and if that were the only weapon he was carrying the guy would be alive.

[C-Man 27230]

31 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Yeah and if that were the only weapon he was carrying the guy would be alive.

[BabaYaga 15300]

You can make the exact same argument if he was better trained to deal with these types of scenarios in the first place.  Nor are you going to have the massive blowback of LE's refusing to go into more dangerous neighborhood that need patrolling the most because they have no way to protect themselves and the criminals (who are also armed) know it.  

[Chewbacca 7780]

You can make the exact same argument if he was better trained to deal with these types of scenarios in the first place.  Nor are you going to have the massive blowback of LE's refusing to go into more dangerous neighborhood that need patrolling the most because they have no way to protect themselves and the criminals (who are also armed) know it.  

I'm so sick of the fucking threats from the LE community. Give us this, or else. Let us do that, or else.

Fuck those assholes. I'm ready to throw the lot in the fucking trash and start over.

[BLKNSTY 289]

You can make the exact same argument if he was better trained to deal with these types of scenarios in the first place.  Nor are you going to have the massive blowback of LE's refusing to go into more dangerous neighborhood that need patrolling the most because they have no way to protect themselves and the criminals (who are also armed) know it.  

They ain’t going into dangerous neighborhoods with or without guns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pato del Muerto 52507]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Or maybe we shouldn't even hire them in the first place.  Maybe with more resources you could actually have a robust vetting & selection process for the pipeline and enough compensation and requirements to attract higher caliber applicants and keep them.  

Those guys make more than I ever did as a degreed chemist, AND they get a pension.  Compensation is not an issue. 
the issue is the mentality that is attracted to the job. College education would be a good start to weed out candidates. 

[BabaYaga 15300]

Just now, Chewbacca said:

I'm so sick of the fucking threats from the LE community. Give us this, or else. Let us do that, or else.

Fuck those assholes. I'm ready to throw the lot in the fucking trash and start over.

A threat?  Would you patrol neighborhoods with armed criminals and you are unarmed?  Of course you wouldn't.  It's not the presence of a gun that causes the issues, it's not knowing what to do with it.  They have no real training, so they immediately go to the gun because it's all they know.  This tragedy seemed to result from an untrained cop put into a situation he was incapable of handling.  

[BabaYaga 15300]

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

Those guys make more than I ever did as a degreed chemist, AND they get a pension.  Compensation is not an issue. 
the issue is the mentality that is attracted to the job. College education would be a good start to weed out candidates. 

Most small town cops start in the mid to low $20K's......you saying you made less than they starting out? 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

2 hours ago, C-Man said:

How many times in the modern history of Wolfe City has a peace officer needed a firearm to do his job? Really and truly needed one?

You underestimate the number of feral cats in a small town.