RIP Joe Morgan

[TheStoicPaisano 9940]

I’m a bit young for his playing days but am interested in hearing stories. Sucks that we are continually doing this.

Fire Joe Morgan.

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by TheStoicPaisano

[Surly Bevo 25264]

Damn dude was an unbelievable player and a fantastic broadcaster.  Been a rough few weeks for baseball legends.

RIP

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Damn too many baseball legends dying this year

[Pogo 284]

My first little league glove was a Joe Morgan.  Also had a Nolan Ryan/JR Richard poster.  I loved those Astros teams.

[Carl Spackler 3506]

He had the chicken wing arm going at the plate as he was waiting for the pitch, so it was fun to watch his at-bats if for no other reason than he was unique in his batting style.  Tremendous power for as small as he was.  In the early to mid-70's, there wasn't a better second baseman in the NL.    

[Beau Vine 54489]

One of the greatest second basemen ever.  Also, one of the most underrated players ever.  Pete Rose was half the player that Little Joe was.

One of the worst broadcasters ever.  At least we got Ken Tremendous from his broadcasting career.

[Gourmand 7774]

15 minutes ago, Pogo said:

My first little league glove was a Joe Morgan.  Also had a Nolan Ryan/JR Richard poster.  I loved those Astros teams.

https://www.houstoniamag.com/news-and-city-life/2020/10/astros-phillies-1980-national-league-championship-series

[RoundRobin 828]

I adopted him as my favorite Astro when we moved to Houston in 1979. He was the reason I always wanted the #8 jersey. 

[Gourmand 7774]

Joe Morgan was arguably the greatest second baseman since Jackie Robinson and one the Astros should have never let get away. It's a shame that his second career and FJM blogspot overshadowed his achievements on the field to the younger generations who weren't alive to see him play. I still remember how fearsome that Big Red Machine was and that 1980 Astros team has a special place in my childhood memory book. 

[C-Man 27293]

13 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

He had the chicken wing arm going at the plate as he was waiting for the pitch, so it was fun to watch his at-bats if for no other reason than he was unique in his batting style.  Tremendous power for as small as he was.  In the early to mid-70's, there wasn't a better second baseman in the NL.    

In the early to mid-70's there was barely a better player in all of MLB.

Amazing how many HOF'ers have passed away recently. It's like six in a a short period of time -- Morgan, Ford, Brock, Seaver and a couple others I'm blanking on.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

RIP, legend. 

[Gourmand 7774]

1980 was a helluva time to be a ten-yr old sports fan in Houston. Luv Ya Blue Oilers with Earl, plucky Astros with Morgan, Nolan, JR, Cheo, Cesar Cedeno, and the Moses Malone/Calvin Murphy Rockets going all the  way to the NBA Finals.

I learned at an early age that sports heartbreak was always right around the corner.

RIP Joe Morgan. What a ballplayer.

[Focht Up 631]

Trading him to the Reds was the stupidest move the team has ever made.  Great player.

[Underdog 28826]

13 minutes ago, C-Man said:

In the early to mid-70's there was barely a better player in all of MLB.

Amazing how many HOF'ers have passed away recently. It's like six in a a short period of time -- Morgan, Ford, Brock, Seaver and a couple others I'm blanking on.

Gibson. 
 

Morgan was a helluva player on a helluva team on BRM.  

[Sbbruin 21904]

Such a bummer.  As a Dodger fan in the 70's, we had some epic battles with the Reds.  And what little kid from that era didn't mimic the Joe Morgan batting stance?

[Scraps 13585]

was before my time, but I am well aware this was the dumbest trade the Astros have ever made.  

He may have sucked as a commentator, but I always looked forward to him and Jon Morgan coming on because it meant Sunday Night baseball during my youth 

[runthebone 8052]

RIP to a great Astro

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Sad to read.  RIP.

 

[Carl Spackler 3506]

1 hour ago, C-Man said:

In the early to mid-70's there was barely a better player in all of MLB.

I happen to agree, but I confined my prior comment to 2B in the NL simply because Carew was playing the same position in the AL, and some think there's a debate as to who was better.  To me, it's really no contest -- Morgan was the better all-around player.  He had much better power, was a much better fielder, had a much better career WAR #, and a similar career slash line.  Carew hit for a much better average, but Morgan made up for that by getting a lot more walks, so the career OBP percentages were very close.  For a few years, Morgan was probably the best all-around player in baseball or very close to it.    

[David Dennison 18994]

Got to see him play in the Dome during his second stint with the Astros.

RIP, Joe.

[Go Pokes 979]

Man this sucks.  I was 6-16 during the 70's, so this was my era.  Losing Seaver, Gibson, and Brock was shitty.  Loved those guys.  But Joe was my guy.  My favorite player of all-time from the age of 8 until now.  I gots a bit of the sadz right now.  

Side note - I finally got to make my pilgrimage to the Baseball Hall of Fame a few years ago.  Every day the tickets will have a picture of a HOFer on them and it changes everyday.  The day I finally achieved my life long dream on visiting the HOF, the HOFer on the tickets that day was Joe Morgan.  Kind of freaked me out a little.  

[Wulaw Horn 19156]

Greatest 2b ever. Worst broadcaster ever. 

[Beau Vine 54489]

27 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

I happen to agree, but I confined my prior comment to 2B in the NL simply because Carew was playing the same position in the AL, and some think there's a debate as to who was better.  To me, it's really no contest -- Morgan was the better all-around player.  He had much better power, was a much better fielder, had a much better career WAR #, and a similar career slash line.  Carew hit for a much better average, but Morgan made up for that by getting a lot more walks, so the career OBP percentages were very close.  For a few years, Morgan was probably the best all-around player in baseball or very close to it.    

But what about RBI?  That's the most important statistic for any baseball player.

[Wulaw Horn 19156]

What’s funny about joe is also true if Barkley- they are the loudest anti-analytic voices while also being the two players maybe most beloved by analytics. 

[Beau Vine 54489]

31 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

I happen to agree, but I confined my prior comment to 2B in the NL simply because Carew was playing the same position in the AL, and some think there's a debate as to who was better.  To me, it's really no contest -- Morgan was the better all-around player.  He had much better power, was a much better fielder, had a much better career WAR #, and a similar career slash line.  Carew hit for a much better average, but Morgan made up for that by getting a lot more walks, so the career OBP percentages were very close.  For a few years, Morgan was probably the best all-around player in baseball or very close to it.    

Crazy that will all these guys dying, Rod Carew is still alive, walking around with another dude's heart in his chest.

[Carl Spackler 3506]

5 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

But what about RBI?  That's the most important statistic for any baseball player.

Dammit, I knew I forgot something!

[Nice Guy Eddie 13536]

3 hours ago, C-Man said:

In the early to mid-70's there was barely a better player in all of MLB.

Amazing how many HOF'ers have passed away recently. It's like six in a a short period of time -- Morgan, Ford, Brock, Seaver and a couple others I'm blanking on.

In any year, we should have 2-4 HOFers die. However some big names have been lost recently. And if you're my age (~50), then we're starting to hit the era that players we remember from the 70s and 80s, are getting up there in age. There are still some big names out there that are 80+: Aaron, Lasorda, Koufax, Mays, etc.

[Beau Vine 54489]

13 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

There are still some big names out there that are 80+: Aaron, Lasorda, Koufax, Mays, etc.

 

[TexArcher 38142]

Damn.  RIP Joe.

[Underdog 28826]

Did not like him coming to the plate in a clutch situation against the Pirates, came through more often than not. 

[C-Man 27293]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

In any year, we should have 2-4 HOFers die. However some big names have been lost recently. And if you're my age (~50), then we're starting to hit the era that players we remember from the 70s and 80s, are getting up there in age. There are still some big names out there that are 80+: Aaron, Lasorda, Koufax, Mays, etc.

But it seems like we're getting a year's worth -- or more in just the last few weeks.

[cabowabo 4520]

RIP

Edited October 12, 2020 by cabowabo

[Hate 20155]

RIP to another baseball great. I always liked him calling games, but I’m not married to analytics like a lot of people.

[Hank Chinaski 6324]

RIP. Great, great player.

Not saying he was a great broadcaster, but he and Jon Miller sounded good together and became synonymous with national broadcasts back when you couldn't access whatever game you wanted, so I'll always appreciate him for that.  

But yeah, as a stats nerd, his disdain for modern analytics drove me a little crazy...particularly since they highlighted that he was even more valuable than his "traditional" numbers would suggest. 

 

[Scraps 13585]

Was lucky enough to meet him a couple years ago....RIP

[Guest]

RIP to another great Texan.

 

pride of Bonham.

 

an alltime  great player on the field, and better man off of it.

[Go Pokes 979]

15 hours ago, Hank Chinaski said:

RIP. Great, great player.

Not saying he was a great broadcaster, but he and Jon Miller sounded good together and became synonymous with national broadcasts back when you couldn't access whatever game you wanted, so I'll always appreciate him for that.  

But yeah, as a stats nerd, his disdain for modern analytics drove me a little crazy...particularly since they highlighted that he was even more valuable than his "traditional" numbers would suggest. 

 

So is this why some people think he was a terrible announcer?  I've never really understood that because when you get away from the internet, I think he's generally regarded as a really good announcer.  

 

[Hank Chinaski 6324]

17 minutes ago, Go Pokes said:

So is this why some people think he was a terrible announcer?  I've never really understood that because when you get away from the internet, I think he's generally regarded as a really good announcer.  

 

Not sure...I liked him fine overall. When broadcasters are that dismissive of modern analytics, it can feel like willful ignorance at times. Its not a character flaw or anything, but can be annoying.

[Hate 20155]

I can completely understand why a HOF player turned broadcaster may not embrace modern baseball analytics the way it is being embraced today. In a some ways I don’t really like the ways analytics has changed the game, but that is a discussion for a different thread.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

His baseball cards were damn hard to get, you had to go thru a lot of bad bubblegum. That's all the analytics I need.

[Beau Vine 54489]

7 hours ago, Go Pokes said:

So is this why some people think he was a terrible announcer?  I've never really understood that because when you get away from the internet, I think he's generally regarded as a really good announcer.  

 

I'm mean, there's an entire website with about a billion words written by Mike Schur detailing why he was a terrible announcer.  

Also: https://deadspin.com/my-uncomfortable-encounter-with-an-angry-joe-morgan-5685456

 

[Go Pokes 979]

I'm mean, there's an entire website with about a billion words written by Mike Schur detailing why he was a terrible announcer.  
Also: https://deadspin.com/my-uncomfortable-encounter-with-an-angry-joe-morgan-5685456
 

Not off to a good start. First paragraph and it’s obvious he hates Joe and loves analytics. I’ll keep reading though.

[Hank Scorpio 17731]

Man this thread got me to go back and read some FJM, so fucking good. I think the super bike racing blog is my favorite. 
 

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/01/honestly-one-of-weirdest-things-i-have.html

[Go Pokes 979]

Not sure...I liked him fine overall. When broadcasters are that dismissive of modern analytics, it can feel like willful ignorance at times. Its not a character flaw or anything, but can be annoying.

I got through about 80% of the article and it’s pretty obvious

The writer and anybody in favor of analytics hated Joe.

Joe didn’t seem to like them either.

Joe was old school, as are most guys from his era. So he wasn’t an analytics guy. Old timers don’t like seeing the game change and will fight against change, even if they’re wrong.

Overall, Joe wasn’t wrong. Of all the changes baseball needed to make to modernize, analytics was the fucking worst. I don’t really care if some of that shit increased your odds of winning by 4%. Baseball is boring and unwatchable now. All K’s and HRs. It was not like that in Joe’s heyday.

Joe has more baseball smarts than anyone I’ve ever heard about. He was a very good announcer until he got older and waged his war on analytics. Probably because he was smart enough to see this style of baseball would ruin it. And he was correct.

to;dr

Joe was the greatest 2B of all time. Joe was an excellent announcer. Joe pissed off the analytics guys (the internet) and they decided he was a terrible announcer based solely on that.

[Hank Scorpio 17731]

Yeah man, you nailed it. 

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2741]

He was great in the booth.

[Beau Vine 54489]

Overall, Joe wasn’t wrong.

Joe has more baseball smarts than anyone I’ve ever heard about.

Joe thought Billy Beane wrote Moneyball.

Joe thought RBI and pitcher's wins were the most important stats.

Joe was an idiot.

[Go Pokes 979]

10 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Joe thought Billy Beane wrote Moneyball.

Joe thought RBI and pitcher's wins were the most important stats.

Joe was an idiot.

 

Joe didn't care who wrote Moneyball.

Joe was old school to a fault

the last line is laughable

[Beau Vine 54489]

The last line is the logical conclusion to be reached from the first two lines.  And Joe did care who wrote Moneyball, because he said so himself:

(Note: this is after he found out that Billy Beane did not write Moneyball himself.)

Quote

Patrick (St. Louis, MO): You stated in your last chat that because you've been around the game for so long, there isn't much more anybody can teach you about it. It seems like you're saying that everything in baseball is known already, whereas I feel that there is plenty that we don't know, especially with advances in sports medicine, the ability to use technology to evaluate defense more accurately, and the increasing availability of pitch-by-pitch data to study long-term trends in the game. Don't you owe it to your listeners to listen to new arguments and research, especially if they are intelligent and logical? You seem to have the notion that a lot of the objective analysis being done now is trying to get rid of traditional scouting, but most sabremetricians feel that both are essential to get the best results.

Joe Morgan: The guy that wrote Moneyball can't teach me about the game. That is what I meant. If you haven't been on the field, why should I read your book? How can that person teach me about the game? I learn plenty about the game everyday. Every Sunday night I learn something. The game changes almost every day. But I'm still not going to read Moneyball or books written by people who haven't been on the field or really experienced what goes on in the game of baseball.

I want to clarify the misunderstand [sic] about what I learn. Every Sunday I learn something new. But I'm going to stand by the fact that somebody who didn't play the game can't teach me about the game. I learned from the best, the legends who played the game. I played alongside so many great players. I'm just not going to read a book in hopes of learning how to play baseball. But this is an everchanging game and I do learn something almost every day. I'm just a former baseball player who is now an analyst. My thoughts are about the game and not medical technologies and such. Just because somebody writes a book doesn't mean they know the game.

If you don't think those are two of the most idiotic paragraphs you've ever read, I don't know what to tell you.  

[Go Pokes 979]

The last line is the logical conclusion to be reached from the first two lines.  And Joe did care who wrote Moneyball, because he said so himself:
(Note: this is after he found out that Billy Beane did not write Moneyball himself.)

Patrick (St. Louis, MO): You stated in your last chat that because you've been around the game for so long, there isn't much more anybody can teach you about it. It seems like you're saying that everything in baseball is known already, whereas I feel that there is plenty that we don't know, especially with advances in sports medicine, the ability to use technology to evaluate defense more accurately, and the increasing availability of pitch-by-pitch data to study long-term trends in the game. Don't you owe it to your listeners to listen to new arguments and research, especially if they are intelligent and logical? You seem to have the notion that a lot of the objective analysis being done now is trying to get rid of traditional scouting, but most sabremetricians feel that both are essential to get the best results.
Joe Morgan: The guy that wrote Moneyball can't teach me about the game. That is what I meant. If you haven't been on the field, why should I read your book? How can that person teach me about the game? I learn plenty about the game everyday. Every Sunday night I learn something. The game changes almost every day. But I'm still not going to read Moneyball or books written by people who haven't been on the field or really experienced what goes on in the game of baseball.
I want to clarify the misunderstand [sic] about what I learn. Every Sunday I learn something new. But I'm going to stand by the fact that somebody who didn't play the game can't teach me about the game. I learned from the best, the legends who played the game. I played alongside so many great players. I'm just not going to read a book in hopes of learning how to play baseball. But this is an everchanging game and I do learn something almost every day. I'm just a former baseball player who is now an analyst. My thoughts are about the game and not medical technologies and such. Just because somebody writes a book doesn't mean they know the game.

If you don't think those are two of the most idiotic paragraphs you've ever read, I don't know what to tell you.  

I don’t get it You’re acting like you’re bringing me new information. Joe hated the analytics. To a fault. It still doesn’t make him any less of an announcer or change the fact that his baseball IQ was as high as anyone ever involved in the game. It just proves he’s a stubborn ass old schooler who wasn’t interested in fancy new technologies and approached. Oh shit! Alert the press! Old man is resistant to technology and change!