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2020 NBA Offseason Thread (Abbreviated) -- Draft, Free Agency, Trades, etc

Patrick Bateman

By Patrick Bateman
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d2o

d2o 1,602

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Posted
1 hour ago, TommyGufano said:

Seems this was pretty far off on the terms of the deal

Yeah, later they corrected it, its 3/41M and part of a sign and trade.   With OKC involved its hard to keep track but I think Ariza is part of that S&T

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At least he's honest about it.    I guess...........

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14,762

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11 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

On ESPN just saw Woj give advice to younger players... "work on your outside shooting" because both Bertans and Joe Harris certainly got PAID. 😁 

Modern NBA. Everyone on the floor needs to be able to hit open jump shots now. Very few traditional bigs like Drummond anymore.

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d2o

d2o 1,602

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14 hours ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Yup.  All these moves are for Giannis next year.

Just saw that Montrezl Harrell is passing up more money with the Clippers and Charlotte to sign with the Lakers.  His agent happens to be Rich Paul.  It is really interesting how Rich Paul and his Klutch Sports Agency (which is partly owned by Lebron) seems to have a singular purpose of helping Lebron get a better team.  Seems like the NBA should do something about stuff like this.

So guys get criticized for taking the money over a better chance at a title but then you have issue with them taking less to go for a title?    Hate on brotha

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2,622

Posted
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1 minute ago, d2o said:

So guys get criticized for taking the money over a better chance at a title but then have issue with them taking less to go for a title?    Hate on brotha

I think it's a matter of degree. When you take a discount on the order of >5M a year under market value either you are being misled or there are shenanigans. When multiple players all represented by the same agency do this across multiple years, the likelihood of shenanigans seems to go up.

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d2o

d2o 1,602

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11 minutes ago, Llogg said:

I think it's a matter of degree. When you take a discount on the order of >5M a year under market value either you are being misled or there are shenanigans. When multiple players all represented by the same agency do this across multiple years, the likelihood of shenanigans seems to go up.

I cant imagine him getting more than about 14/yr and that would more than likely be on a crappy team as those were the only ones with money this yr.  Look at the guys that cashed in and where they signed.   He has a 1+1 so he can be a UFA next season and cash in while going to a team with a chance to win a title.   This isnt that.   I know guys hate LBJ and much of anything he does but let's try and look at this rationally.

 

 

 

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SilasCoade

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64	Bismack Biyombo, C	Charlotte Hornets	$17,000,000
65	Bojan Bogdanovic, SF	Utah Jazz	$17,000,000
66	Ricky Rubio, G	Minnesota Timberwolves	$17,000,000
67	Eric Bledsoe, G	Milwaukee Bucks	$16,875,000
68	Eric Gordon, SG	Houston Rockets	$16,869,276
69	Timofey Mozgov, C	Orlando Magic	$16,720,000
70	Caris LeVert, SG	Brooklyn Nets	$16,203,704
71	James Johnson, F	Oklahoma City Thunder	$16,047,100
72	Dennis Schroder, G	Los Angeles Lakers	$16,000,000
73	Clint Capela, C	Atlanta Hawks	$16,000,000
74	Kelly Oubre Jr., F	Oklahoma City Thunder	$15,625,000
75	Ian Mahinmi, C	Washington Wizards	$15,450,051
76	Cody Zeller, C	Charlotte Hornets	$15,415,730
77	Jonas Valanciunas, C	Memphis Grizzlies	$15,000,000
78	Bobby Portis, PF	New York Knicks	$15,000,000
79	Andre Iguodala, SG	Miami Heat	$15,000,000
80	Luke Babbitt, F	Miami Heat	$14,651,700
81	Danny Green, G	Philadelphia 76ers	$14,634,146
82	Rudy Gay, SF	San Antonio Spurs	$14,500,000

From ESPN.com, not sure how to check for accuracy. I would think Harrell is more valuable than at least half these guys. Valenciunas might be the only big on this list who is better than him. Either Harrell's agent sucks, he's really gambling on going to the Lakers and becoming a bona fide star (being misled), or shenanigans are afoot, but I think 14-15M was definitely market value for a guy like him.

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d2o

d2o 1,602

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14 minutes ago, Llogg said: 

64	Bismack Biyombo, C	Charlotte Hornets	$17,000,000
65	Bojan Bogdanovic, SF	Utah Jazz	$17,000,000
66	Ricky Rubio, G	Minnesota Timberwolves	$17,000,000
67	Eric Bledsoe, G	Milwaukee Bucks	$16,875,000
68	Eric Gordon, SG	Houston Rockets	$16,869,276
69	Timofey Mozgov, C	Orlando Magic	$16,720,000
70	Caris LeVert, SG	Brooklyn Nets	$16,203,704
71	James Johnson, F	Oklahoma City Thunder	$16,047,100
72	Dennis Schroder, G	Los Angeles Lakers	$16,000,000
73	Clint Capela, C	Atlanta Hawks	$16,000,000
74	Kelly Oubre Jr., F	Oklahoma City Thunder	$15,625,000
75	Ian Mahinmi, C	Washington Wizards	$15,450,051
76	Cody Zeller, C	Charlotte Hornets	$15,415,730
77	Jonas Valanciunas, C	Memphis Grizzlies	$15,000,000
78	Bobby Portis, PF	New York Knicks	$15,000,000
79	Andre Iguodala, SG	Miami Heat	$15,000,000
80	Luke Babbitt, F	Miami Heat	$14,651,700
81	Danny Green, G	Philadelphia 76ers	$14,634,146
82	Rudy Gay, SF	San Antonio Spurs	$14,500,000

From ESPN.com, not sure how to check for accuracy. I would think Harrell is more valuable than at least half these guys. Valenciunas might be the only big on this list who is better than him. Either Harrell's agent sucks, he's really gambling on going to the Lakers and becoming a bona fide star (being misled), or shenanigans are afoot, but I think 14-15M was definitely market value for a guy like him.

A lot of those guys (Biyombo, Mozgov, Mahinmi, and more) signed during 2016 when the cap spiked.   Those are different situations as the market has changed.   Even when they were signed they signed with crappy teams.   Continuing on the list only Iggy, Babbit and now Schroeder are on title contenders and all of them were traded to those teams.   Again, different situations.

As I stated Harrell may have been able to get 14-5/yr but it would be a shitty team.   Taking less for a yr to make a title run and then try to cash in next yr is not unusual at all.

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ztejas

ztejas 43,528

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, d2o said:

So guys get criticized for taking the money over a better chance at a title but then you have issue with them taking less to go for a title?    Hate on brotha

It's a players advocacy issue and takes away power from the players (ironically) and can fuck up future CBAs when you have guys renouncing* money for a chance to play where they want. 

I have no issue with it from a basketball standpoint - and these guys are of course well within their rights to play where they want (which had been an issue for a long time) - but in the past I know that the NBAPA has not been fond of it as it keeps more money in the pockets of owners and can hurt contract negotiations. 

Edited by ztejas
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d2o

d2o 1,602

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21 minutes ago, Llogg said:

yeah, I get that, but that list is not just guys who signed back then. Danny Green FFS.

Danny Green is not a new contract.   He got a two yr deal last season.   When the Lakers missed out on Kawhi they had to overpay as Green was one of the few guys left.  Context.   The market is different this yr than it was last yr.

 

Can you show me a guy that signed with (not traded to) a contender this yr for considerably more?  The only argument that could be made is that he could've signed back to the Clips for more.  Being a part of that org for the last few yrs may have shown him that he doesn't want to be there.

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d2o

d2o 1,602

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26 minutes ago, ztejas said:

It's a players advocacy issue and takes away power from the players (ironically) and can fuck up future CBAs when you have guys espousing money for a chance to play where they want. 

I have no issue with it from a basketball standpoint - and these guys are of course well within their rights to play where they want (which had been an issue for a long time) - but in the past I know that the NBAPA has not been fond of it as it keeps more money in the pockets of owners and can hurt contract negotiations. 

There are way more than enough guys out there taking the money to worry about a couple guys per season that take less to have a better shot at a title.

 

EXHIBIT A:

 

 

 

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Kermit

Kermit 3,158

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Just now, Murfdogg21 said:

Players should be free to sign whichever contract they prefer based on $$$, location, opportunity, whatever. The shenanigans of Klutch Sports is you have some backdoor for Lebron to tamper by talking to and negotiating with players under contract or restricted FAs. 

This. It’s fucking shady, but they only care if Woj tweets about it.

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d2o

d2o 1,602

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14 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Players should be free to sign whichever contract they prefer based on $$$, location, opportunity, whatever. The shenanigans of Klutch Sports is you have some backdoor for Lebron to tamper by talking to and negotiating with players under contract or restricted FAs. 

You really think LBJ is the only player "tampering" with FAs?  

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UTDD

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12 minutes ago, Radical Larry said:

 

 

 

 


Holy shit.

 

 

 

What the fuck is Charlotte doing?  Holy cow...

It seemed like in hindsight that Hayward wanted to go back to Indiana, but Ainge asked for too much for a S&T.  I thought the Knicks might be the one to overpay, but Charlotte...

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d2o

d2o 1,602

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7 minutes ago, UTDD said:

What the fuck is Charlotte doing?  Holy cow...

It seemed like in hindsight that Hayward wanted to go back to Indiana, but Ainge asked for too much for a S&T.  I thought the Knicks might be the one to overpay, but Charlotte...

And again Ainge fucks himself trying to rob someone.   They could have absolutely used Myles Turner.   Now he gets nothing.   Dumbfuck.

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ztejas

ztejas 43,528

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53 minutes ago, d2o said:

There are way more than enough guys out there taking the money to worry about a couple guys per season that take less to have a better shot at a title.

 

EXHIBIT A:

 

 

 

Yeah and I'm speaking more in theory. Harrell getting 19 for 2 isn't that big of a deal. It was more of an issue when you had the Cavs and Ws one upping each other. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43,528

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7 minutes ago, d2o said:

And again Ainge fucks himself trying to rob someone.   They could have absolutely used Myles Turner.   Now he gets nothing.   Dumbfuck.

Ainge is almost a really good GM. He's done great work rebuilding the Cs but just can't get them over the hump as a legit title contender. They would have gotten dusted by the Ws (or Rockets) in 2018, couldn't answer Giannis in 2019 and ran into a scrappy, homegrown Heat team that was just straight up better than them this last season. 

Their window is closed for the time being and I'm not sure it was ever really open. Tatum is a great young player but I'm not sure he's never going to be that dude on a title team. He could use a dose of nasty.

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d2o

d2o 1,602

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Just now, ztejas said:

Ainge is almost a really good GM. He's done great work rebuilding the Cs but just can't get them over the hump as a legit title contender. They would have gotten dusted by the Ws (or Rockets) in 2018, couldn't answer Giannis in 2019 and ran into a scrappy, homegrown Heat team that was just straight up better than them this last season. 

Their window is closed for the time being and I'm not sure it was ever really open. Tatum is a great young player but I'm not sure he's never going to be that dude on a title team. He could use a dose of nasty.

How much better would they have been if he went all in and got either Kawhi, PG or Jimmy Butler.   He could got either of them but tried to low ball teams at every opp.  

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d2o

d2o 1,602

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2 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Damn, that seems cheap compared to some of the other deals going on this weekend.  But no income tax in Florida helps a little...

Avery hasn't really been as good the last few yrs.  That's a little more than I expected honestly.   Especially if he wanted to go to a winning org.

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ztejas

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Just now, d2o said:

How much better would they have been if he went all in and got either Kawhi, PG or Jimmy Butler.   He could got either of them but tried to low ball teams at every opp.  

They were also at the KD table in 2016. That's probably a title right there. He's done a lot of stockpiling very good assets without chasing elite ones. Presti has had the same issue - although I'd say he's a step above Ainge and has less to work with.

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49,331

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, d2o said:

And again Ainge fucks himself trying to rob someone.   They could have absolutely used Myles Turner.   Now he gets nothing.   Dumbfuck.

Yeah, Ainge gonna get roasted in Bean-Town

  • Gordon Hayward has opted out of his Celtics contract. The question is, what happens now?
  • If Hayward signs out-right with another team, Danny Ainge is going to have egg on his face. With Kyrie Irving, Al Horford and now possibly Hayward leaving without a sign and trade, the Celtics — a contending team just lacking a major piece or two the past couple of years — will have watched a significant amount of cap space leave out the door and no way to match it.
  • There's little doubt that has adversely affected this team, and if Hayward signs out-right, it's going to be a huge blow to next year's team. I don't know how you spin that as a positive. Ainge's plans keep blowing up in his face and he's been left with a team that's good, but not good enough. 2021 will be the same.
Edited by LTtxfan
Damn autocorrect
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d2o

d2o 1,602

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13 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I think I'm more appalled that Fred VanVleet is making $21M a year than I am Hayward making $30M. At least the latter has been to an All-Star game... though those days may be behind him.

That was with his own team.   Teams often overpay their guys to keep them from getting to UFA.   FVV was a huge key to them winning the title and has been pretty great for them ever since.  Hayward has done nothing since he got hurt 

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Message Board User

Message Board User 12,396

Posted
Posted
Just now, Brothahorn said:

Lamelo Ball and Gordon Heyward..Charlotte already playing the lottery game.

Actually, given the 2021 draft (which is loaded with franchise talents), signing Heyward is even more egregious.  

This is NOT the year to be chasing a few more wins to sneak into the playoffs.

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