2020 NBA Offseason Thread (Abbreviated) -- Draft, Free Agency, Trades, etc

[Aqua Buddha 14600]

2 hours ago, d2o said:

Pels gave Steven Adams a 2yr/35M extension after trading for him.   That is a sneaky good move getting him.

He's also younger than you think.  Only 27.  His offensive game is limited but he's massive, can move, defend and rebound very well.  Almost never hurt, too.

[d2o 1602]

6 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

He's also younger than you think.  Only 27.  His offensive game is limited but he's massive, can move, defend and rebound very well.  Almost never hurt, too.

Yep, at 27 he fits in with their young guys.   He doesnt need the ball, will be a force in the lane on defense, and has a pretty nice touch around the basket when he does get the ball.

[conVINCEd 21469]

12 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

He's also younger than you think.  Only 27.  His offensive game is limited but he's massive, can move, defend and rebound very well.  Almost never hurt, too.

He can also beat the shit out of anyone who messes with Zion.

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

The issue with Adams is he's a throwback..... already.  I love him, he's nasty and does the dirty work, but some coaches don't want a guy who can't extend defenses.  He's got a decent shot, if he could extend it to 18 feet, he'd really flourish rather than just be a PNR dive guy.  His PNR defense is also pretty decent for a physical big but that may age poorly.  We'll have to see but I really like Adams' game.  I think 17/18m is a good value.

[Aqua Buddha 14600]

How Adams was never a Dothraki extra on GOT is one of life's great mysteries.  

[BradInATX 9208]

So what do we think about the East? The two biggest questions have to be how the Nets come together, and whether or not the Heat were sort of a flukey product of the bubble or whether they're a legit top 3 seed type team. I'm not really sure what to make of all of it.

I don't think the Nets will be a serious contender as currently constructed, although the potential for a mid-season trade could change that. The Heat are obviously a talented young team, but the top of the East is going to be tougher this time around. 

The Bucks I think with Bogdanovic would been a clear favorite, but minus him and plus the spares they picked up instead, I'm not as confident. They'll likely be the #1 seed and they'll be a better playoff team minus Bledsoe and plus Jrue, but is that enough? Hard to say. I don't have much of a feel for the East.

[d2o 1602]

13 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

He can also beat the shit out of anyone who messes with Zion.

This too.

[BradInATX 9208]

19 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

The issue with Adams is he's a throwback..... already.  I love him, he's nasty and does the dirty work, but some coaches don't want a guy who can't extend defenses.  He's got a decent shot, if he could extend it to 18 feet, he'd really flourish rather than just be a PNR dive guy.  His PNR defense is also pretty decent for a physical big but that may age poorly.  We'll have to see but I really like Adams' game.  I think 17/18m is a good value.

I love Adams, not sure of the fit. We'll see. Zion had entirely too much interior pressure on him defensively and rebounding wise. Adams definitely helps there. Whether or not he's going to screw up their spacing, who knows. NOLA with Stan Van Gundy is one of the bigger question marks for me next year. They could win 30 or 55 or anything in between.

Edited November 24, 2020 by BradInATX

[d2o 1602]

 

[ztejas 43528]

23 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I don't think the Nets will be a serious contender as currently constructed,

You must be really bearish on KD.

[d2o 1602]

 

 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

7 minutes ago, ztejas said:

You must be really bearish on KD.

A little bit, but I still think 80-90% KD is an elite offensive player. If he's lost lateral quickness he's going to be a minus defender.

It's more that while I see the potential for them to make a title run, a lot of pieces have to come together. They've got an oddly constructed starting lineup with three ball-dominant players, one of whom (LaVine) is going to see a huge dropoff in usage from prior years. Any time they have two of Joe Harris, Kyrie, and LeVert on the floor together, which will basically be always, they'll have serious exposure to teams with back courts that can shoot (Miami being a good example). 

Add to that the obvious chemistry concerns with Kyrie, potentially LaVine, and a new first-time coach who could easily get steamrolled. 

I'm not saying that they don't have a chance. There's a good amount of talent. But is it more talent than the Bucks or Heat? And equally as importantly, does the roster mesh  functionally as well as the Heat (Milwaukee TBD)? And can they keep it together.

Just so many things have to go right for them, IMO. My money would be against it all coming together. Now if they get Harden, that becomes a different ballgame.

[d2o 1602]

7 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

A little bit, but I still think 80-90% KD is an elite offensive player. If he's lost lateral quickness he's going to be a minus defender.

It's more that while I see the potential for them to make a title run, a lot of pieces have to come together. They've got an oddly constructed starting lineup with three ball-dominant players, one of whom (LaVine) is going to see a huge dropoff in usage from prior years. Any time they have two of Joe Harris, Kyrie, and LeVert on the floor together, which will basically be always, they'll have serious exposure to teams with back courts that can shoot (Miami being a good example). 

Add to that the obvious chemistry concerns with Kyrie, potentially LaVine, and a new first-time coach who could easily get steamrolled. 

I'm not saying that they don't have a chance. There's a good amount of talent. But is it more talent than the Bucks or Heat? And equally as importantly, does the roster mesh  functionally as well as the Heat (Milwaukee TBD)? And can they keep it together.

Just so many things have to go right for them, IMO. My money would be against it all coming together. Now if they get Harden, that becomes a different ballgame.

Edited November 24, 2020 by d2o

[ztejas 43528]

18 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

They've got an oddly constructed starting lineup with three ball-dominant players, one of whom (LaVine) is going to see a huge dropoff in usage from prior years. Any time they have two of Joe Harris, Kyrie, and LeVert on the floor together, which will basically be always, they'll have serious exposure to teams with back courts that can shoot (Miami being a good example). 

Add to that the obvious chemistry concerns with Kyrie, potentially LaVine, and a new first-time coach who could easily get steamrolled. 

What the fuck are you talking about? Did you autocorrect LeVert to Lavine twice?

And LeVert is only going to be better without being forced to create all the time. He is not a player that needs the ball in his hands all the time. He can slash and shoot and play point when KD and Kyrie aren't of the floor.

18 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

But is it more talent than the Bucks or Heat?

Yes. It is. Whether Kyrie and KD play to their full potential remains to be seen but if they can both play to 95% of their prior ceilings (which doesn't seem all that far fetched) they are by far the best duo in the East. And they have a fuckton of deep playoff experience.

Edited November 24, 2020 by ztejas

[BradInATX 9208]

10 minutes ago, d2o said:

 

Oof. Don't ask me why, but I thought the nets had signed Zach LaVine, I guess I got he and LaVert mixed up. That's what I get for Surlying on conference calls. 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

What the fuck are you talking about?

And LeVert is only going to be better without being forced to create all the time. He is not a player that needs the ball in his hands all the time. He can slash and shoot and play point when KD and Kyrie aren't of the floor.

Yes. It is. Whether Kyrie and KD play to their full potential remains to be seen but if they can both play to 95% of their prior ceilings (which doesn't seem all that far fetched) they are by far the best duo in the East. And they have a fuckton of deep playoff experience.

 

Kyrie is one of the most overrated players in Basketball. Don't fall into the trap.

[ztejas 43528]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 

Kyrie is one of the most overrated players in Basketball. Don't fall into the trap.

The trap of trying to have a sensical basketball discussion with you? I've clearly fallen for that already. I also think we've found out why you aren't high on the Nets. Kyrie is properly rated if only for the amount of people that despise him and think he's overrated. A bit like Harden in that regard.

[BradInATX 9208]

8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

The trap of trying to have a sensical basketball discussion with you? I've clearly fallen for that already

Was that when you predicted Milwaukee to sweep the Heat?

Kyrie is nothing like Harden. Everyone knows what both of them are. Harden is a #1 who, much like KD, is not quite good enough to win a ring as the man on his team. Kyrie is a #2 who is only good enough to win a ring as a #2 when he has the second best player in the history of basketball beside him.

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by BradInATX

[Mitch Cumsteen 18551]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

You must be really bearish on KD.

It's 100% about his recovery. If he regains form, they are the best team in the east. And it's not like Kyrie has ever been able to stay healthy, either, so there is a huge amount of uncertainty there. But the rest of their lineup doesn't get enough credit. They made the playoffs last year without KD and KI. Sean Marks put together a really good and very deep supporting cast with a mix of vets and youth: Dinwiddie, Levert, Harris (grossly overpaid now), Deandre Jordan, Wilson Chandler, Jarett Allen, Jeff Green, Bruce Brown, etc. It's going to be interesting how they play with Steve Nash as coach and D'Antoni as his assistant. I can only assume they are going to go 7 seconds or less and let KD and Kyrie go crazy. They're going to be fun to watch if they mesh well together but they should be able to play any style they want to play.

My take on the East because I'm procrastinating at work:

1. Brooklyn - health caveats apply

2. Miami - losing Crowder hurts but they are still loaded with young talent that should only get better.

3. Milwaukee - Jrue or no Jrue, they're going to have to show me something in the playoffs before I ever believe in them again. They also botched the Bogdan deal so badly that it doesn't bode well for their front office

4. Boston - Danny Ainge missed his window with the rookie contracts on Tatum and Brown coming to an end. They got nothing but cap space for Kyrie, Horford and Hayward. I don't know why Ainge isn't getting more criticism for his mismanagement of the past few years. 

5. Toronto - they will probably finish higher in the standings than this but limited ceiling without a real superstar.

6. Philly - unloading Horford and finding some shooters... it's like somebody is finally looking at roster construction over there

7. Indiana - always better than I think they are. 

8. Atlanta - I like the vets they added. I can't imagine SAC lets Bogdanovic walk, but then again they're Sacramento. 

9. Orlando - some young talent and a few decent vets but nothing to write home about

10. Charlotte - I saw a tweet or post somewhere that said MJ was the MJ of terrible owners. WTF Gordon Hayward? Atrocious. 

11. Wash - terrible cap now featuring Davis Bertans.

12. Chicago - some young talent but overall meh.

13. Detroit - WTF are they doing this offseason? 

14. Cleveland - waiting for Lebron to come back for Act III. Not happening.

15. NYK - still sucking but now without luxury tax payments. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Are the odds of Kyrie both staying healthy and not being cancerous even 50%?

I mean if you can tell me that and that KD will be 95% then sure, you can pencil Brooklyn probably into the ECF.

That's a bit of a cop out though. Take a stand, man!

[conVINCEd 21469]

Bam and Ingram both get max-ish extensions.

[BradInATX 9208]

Maxing Ingram is questionable IMO. But I guess if you don't want Zion in LA in 4 years, you gotta lock some pieces up.

[ztejas 43528]

 

15 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Was that when you predicted Milwaukee to sweep the Heat?

Kyrie is nothing like Harden. Everyone knows what both of them are. Harden is a #1 who is not quite good enough to win a ring. Kyrie is a #2 who is only good enough to win a ring as a #2 when he has the second best player in the history of basketball beside him.

Ooh you got me. A dart thrown against the wall without much conviction. I should have seen it coming - just look at everyone that took Miami in 5:

Jerry Bembry: Bucks in 7

Nick DePaula: Heat in 6

Nick Friedell: Heat in 6

Kirk Goldsberry: Bucks in 7

Andrew Han: Heat in 7

Chris Herring: Bucks in 6

Andrew Lopez: Bucks in 6

Zach Lowe: Bucks in 7

Tim MacMahon: Bucks in 6

Bobby Marks: Heat in 7

Dave McMenamin: Heat in 7

Kevin Pelton: Bucks in 6

Jorge Sedano: Heat in 7

Ramona Shelburne: Heat in 7

Andre' Snellings: Bucks in 5

Eric Woodyard: Bucks in 7

Royce Young: Bucks in 6

Ohm Youngmisuk: Bucks in 7

And lol that Kyrie somehow got carried to that ring by LeBron. Pretty sure he outplayed your GOAT in that Finals series.

[d2o 1602]

19 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Bam and Ingram both get max-ish extensions.

Yep 

 

 

 

[d2o 1602]

14 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 

Ooh you got me. A dart thrown against the wall without much conviction. I should have seen it coming - just look at everyone that took Miami in 5:

 

And lol that Kyrie somehow got carried to that ring by LeBron. Pretty sure he outplayed your GOAT in that Finals series.

And here is where you lost it

[TommyGufano 6021]

15 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 

Ooh you got me. A dart thrown against the wall without much conviction. I should have seen it coming - just look at everyone that took Miami in 5:

Jerry Bembry: Bucks in 7

Nick DePaula: Heat in 6

Nick Friedell: Heat in 6

Kirk Goldsberry: Bucks in 7

Andrew Han: Heat in 7

Chris Herring: Bucks in 6

Andrew Lopez: Bucks in 6

Zach Lowe: Bucks in 7

Tim MacMahon: Bucks in 6

Bobby Marks: Heat in 7

Dave McMenamin: Heat in 7

Kevin Pelton: Bucks in 6

Jorge Sedano: Heat in 7

Ramona Shelburne: Heat in 7

Andre' Snellings: Bucks in 5

Eric Woodyard: Bucks in 7

Royce Young: Bucks in 6

Ohm Youngmisuk: Bucks in 7

And lol that Kyrie somehow got carried to that ring by LeBron. Pretty sure he outplayed your GOAT in that Finals series.

Well that's dumb.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18551]

21 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Maxing Ingram is questionable IMO. But I guess if you don't want Zion in LA in 4 years, you gotta lock some pieces up.

It's also made more palatable with Zion on a rookie deal for 3 more years. 

[Michael Knight 12993]

If Ingram continues improving its a good move, but risky AF. Bam has 0 offensive skillset and is overpaid. I don't expect Miami to repeat their bubble performance

[ztejas 43528]

8 minutes ago, d2o said:

And here is where you lost it

 

7 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

Well that's dumb.

T'was referring to Curry

[BradInATX 9208]

It's also made more palatable with Zion on a rookie deal for 3 more years. 

True, and by that time the cap will be higher, so Ingram's deal won't be too bad by then if he continues his trajectory.

[BradInATX 9208]

If Ingram continues improving its a good move, but risky AF. Bam has 0 offensive skillset and is overpaid. I don't expect Miami to repeat their bubble performance

Agreed. The Bam move is risky too. He didn't even look like he deserved to be on the same court as AD. But, he was hurt.

[d2o 1602]

31 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

If Ingram continues improving its a good move, but risky AF. Bam has 0 offensive skillset and is overpaid. I don't expect Miami to repeat their bubble performance

Uh Bam ran point center and finished the C's off cause they had no answer for him.

[d2o 1602]

29 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 

T'was referring to Curry

Who the hell says Curry is the GOAT???

[ztejas 43528]

Yeah... $30M for Bam is honestly a steal. It was basically a wash between him and Jimmy for huge stretches of the playoffs. 

And I guess y'all draw the line at getting nervous about max extensions somewhere below Tatum but above Ingram. Which is probably right.

@d2o the person I was replying to. Idk. Maybe he's come off of it since then.

Edited November 24, 2020 by ztejas

[d2o 1602]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Yeah... $30M for Bam is honestly a steal. It was basically a wash between him and Jimmy for huge stretches of the playoffs. 

And I guess y'all draw the line at getting nervous about max extensions somewhere below Tatum but above Ingram. Which is probably right.

@d2o the person I was replying to. Idk. Maybe he's come off of it since then.

Good grief!

 

I do really like Ingram but Tatum is definitely better and doesn't have the health history that Ingram does.  Tatum has an All-NBA selection to his credit along with multiple really good playoff performances so there is a definite difference between the two.

[ztejas 43528]

3 minutes ago, d2o said:

Good grief!

 

I do really like Ingram but Tatum is definitely better and doesn't have the health history that Ingram does.  Tatum has an All-NBA selection to his credit along with multiple really good playoff performances so there is a definite difference between the two.

Oh... absolutely. And they're both better than Wiggins. 

I might contend that Ingram's ceiling is right up there with Tatum's if he can keep elevating his game. But right now he's older and less polished so it wouldn't be likely.

[conVINCEd 21469]

There are a few players in the league who  I really can’t have a rational conversation about because I love the way the play so much.  Bam is one of those guys.

[ztejas 43528]

5 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

There are a few players in the league who  I really can’t have a rational conversation about because I love the way the play so much.  Bam is one of those guys.

He was fucking nails in G7 against BOS

 

[d2o 1602]

5 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

There are a few players in the league who  I really can’t have a rational conversation about because I love the way the play so much.  Bam is one of those guys.

I've never heard anyone say he has 0 offensive skillset.   That was a pretty amazing take.

[BradInATX 9208]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

Uh Bam ran point center and finished the C's off cause they had no answer for him.

He also struggled mightily against LA. He was hurt, granted. 

I probably would want to have seen one more all-star level season out of him before maxing him out. But, you don't really get that luxury in the modern NBA. There's definitely some risk in maxing him out, though. If he's hit his ceiling at 15/10, is that really a max player? I don't know. And I don't think he's hit his ceiling. But it's reasonable to think there's some risk there.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18551]

6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

He also struggled mightily against LA. He was hurt, granted. 

I probably would want to have seen one more all-star level season out of him before maxing him out. But, you don't really get that luxury in the modern NBA. There's definitely some risk in maxing him out, though. If he's hit his ceiling at 15/10, is that really a max player? I don't know. And I don't think he's hit his ceiling. But it's reasonable to think there's some risk there.

He's a no brainer max. He just turned 22, has gotten better each year and is on an amazing trajectory. He averaged 16, 10, & 5 on 56% shooting plus a block and steal while being an absolute menace on defense while leading his team to the finals. 

[BradInATX 9208]

3 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

He's a no brainer max. He just turned 22, has gotten better each year and is on an amazing trajectory. He averaged 16, 10, & 5 on 56% shooting plus a block and steal while being an absolute menace on defense while leading his team to the finals. 

 

Are you under the impression that I'm arguing against maxing him out? Or are you just feeling like arguing for no reason this afternoon? Save picking nits on points that aren't even being made for the wife, I'm not interested today.

Edited November 24, 2020 by BradInATX

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

He's a no brainer max. He just turned 22, has gotten better each year and is on an amazing trajectory. He averaged 16, 10, & 5 on 56% shooting plus a block and steal while being an absolute menace on defense while leading his team to the finals. 

Yep, a bigger more athletic Draymond on defense along with having handle to take bigs off the dribble, a beast as the roller on PnR, and can run your offense through him for stretches.   He is exactly the type of player you want as one of the cornerstones of your org.

Edited November 24, 2020 by d2o

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

 

Are you under the impression that I'm arguing against maxing him out? Or are you just feeling like arguing for no reason this afternoon? Save picking nits on points that aren't even being made for the wife, I'm not interested today.

[BradInATX 9208]

I agree, calling him Draymond on defense is jags guy worthy. A "more Athletic Draymond on defense" with Bam's frame and length would very possibly be the best defensive player in the history of basketball, which is of course silly.

[LTtxfan 49331]

PG 14 Be Crazy....

 

Hell yes Jayson Tatum deserves the new contract.  Thought maybe Bam was gonna take a 1year deal with a wink wink promise for future big money -- that would free up enough money for the HEAT to go after and sign Greek Freak in 2021...

[Catdaddyhorn 3447]

Looks like the Kings declined to match the Hawks offer to Bogdanovic. 

[LTtxfan 49331]

 Jason Anderson.   @JandersonSacBee

8m

 

Updated: Bogdan Bogdanovic is headed to the Hawks after the Kings declined to match Atlanta's offer. Bogi wanted to move on and the Kings wanted to maintain flexibility as Monte McNair reshapes roster around De'Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley III.

Bye-bye, Bogi: Atlanta Hawks claim Bogdan Bogdanovic after Kings decline to match offer

Sacramento says goodbye as Kings guard Bogdan Bogdanovic joins Trae Young and the Atlanta Hawks.

sacbee.com

 

[d2o 1602]

11 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

PG 14 Be Crazy....

 

Hell yes Jayson Tatum deserves the new contract.  Thought maybe Bam was gonna take a 1year deal with a wink wink promise for future big money -- that would free up enough money for the HEAT to go after and sign Greek Freak in 2021...

Bam has no reason to do that.    His agent is also Giannis' agent and it would be a fireable offense for him to let that happen.   If Bam was to get hurt...............maaaaannnnn.

Let Pat Riley figure out how to make the money work to get Giannis if he in fact decides to join the Heat.   That is why riley gets paid.

[LTtxfan 49331]

17 minutes ago, d2o said:

Bam has no reason to do that.    His agent is also Giannis' agent and it would be a fireable offense for him to let that happen.   If Bam was to get hurt...............maaaaannnnn.

Let Pat Riley figure out how to make the money work to get Giannis if he in fact decides to join the Heat.   That is why riley gets paid.

I agree... there was a lot of noise the other way though.

Glad Bam got paid...

Still wonder who ends up with The Greek Freak after this season.

Edited November 25, 2020 by LTtxfan