2020 NBA Offseason Thread (Abbreviated) -- Draft, Free Agency, Trades, etc

[conVINCEd 21469]

13 minutes ago, d2o said:

This is quickly becoming a real issue.   He's in the club in a pandemic and then citing Covid concerns at least part of why he isnt in practice

I was shocked that he never tried to smuggle a couple of strippers into the bubble.

[HtownHorn 14762]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

I was shocked that he never tried to smuggle a couple of strippers into the bubble.

House took one for the team.

[ztejas 43528]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

This is quickly becoming a real issue. 

His partying has been an issue his entire career.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Gotta wonder if he’s committed. If he is they’re a playoff team. If he’s not then they’re not.

Lol. What a reputation. I still love the graphic on how well he well he plays in NBA cities that have great strip clubs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article237136649.html

Might be time to grow up, James.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Double post

[d2o 1602]

32 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Lol. What a reputation. I still love the graphic on how well he well he plays in NBA cities that have great strip clubs.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article237136649.html

Might be time to grow up, James.

He's never had to so I doubt that he just magically does.

[BradInATX 9208]

I hate Harden's on court game but never really had a problem with the guy. Not everyone is Jordan with an unhealthy competitive drive and terrible perspective on work life balance. Got no problem with him wanting to have fun and being okay with being a HOF player but not an NBA icon. Some people aren't driven by that.

But you gotta show up to practice bruh.

[conVINCEd 21469]

Houston has the highest beta of any team in the league.  3 seed?  Not surprised.  Lottery?  Not surprised.

[BradInATX 9208]

15 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Houston has the highest beta of any team in the league.  3 seed?  Not surprised.  Lottery?  Not surprised.

No doubt. Them and NOLA are the only two teams where you could equally talk me into 50 wins or 25.

[HtownHorn 14762]

55 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Houston has the highest beta of any team in the league.  3 seed?  Not surprised.  Lottery?  Not surprised.

Frankly, I would be ok if they just traded Harden for the alleged package from the Nets.

I like a team of

Wall, LeVert, Prince, Wood, and Allen as the starters and Dinwiddie and Cousins off the bench.

It has limited upside, but at least Silas and Stone don't have to deal with the daily machinations of Harden.

Also allows the Rockets to trade Tucker and Gordon.

[conVINCEd 21469]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

No doubt. Them and NOLA are the only two teams where you could equally talk me into 50 wins or 25.

You’re a little higher on NOLAs upside than I am, but throw the Suns and Hawks in the mix as well.

[conVINCEd 21469]

1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

Frankly, I would be ok if they just traded Harden for the alleged package from the Nets.

I like a team of

Wall, LeVert, Prince, Wood, and Allen as the starters and Dinwiddie and Cousins off the bench.

It has limited upside, but at least Silas and Stone don't have to deal with the daily machinations of Harden.

Also allows the Rockets to trade Tucker and Gordon.

Good luck trading Gordon, but I agree with the rest of what you said.

[UTDD 362]

I think Houston has two main realistic options: Brooklyn or Philly.  Philly will try and include Simmons plus additional assets, while Brooklyn doesn't have a true centerpiece player, but will include a lot of their current roster.  If I was Houston, I think I would try and get Brooklyn to get a third team involved to get an enticing but unproven prospect like Porter Jr. on the Nuggets.  Maybe Houston can get some combo of Porter Jr and 2-3 of the Nets more promising players with multiple picks and pick swaps in an overall three way package.  Force Gordon and Tucker out (Tucker will be valued as an asset as it is by most teams) as part of the package.  Denver is unlikely to trade Porter Jr, but their team is very close to being a legitimate championship team, and they might be persuaded if the right immediate pieces are included.  I don't like Harden on the Nets that much if Kyrie is still there, but you can understand Brooklyn taking that chance. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

lolololololol:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIhi-QnITvw/?igshid=tz854u2u9fof

 

god damn it, IG still doesn't embed. a summary:

"One thing that I know for sure; that ive been a part of two teams that won the two toughest championships in NBA history." he includes his most recent win vs the Heat on that list. 

[UTDD 362]

4 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

lolololololol:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIhi-QnITvw/?igshid=tz854u2u9fof

 

god damn it, IG still doesn't embed. a summary:

"One thing that I know for sure; that ive been a part of two teams that won the two toughest championships in NBA history." he includes his most recent win vs the Heat on that list. 

Just silly.  2016 yes, 2020 no way that was historically tough.

[HookEm 2467]

I think Houston has two main realistic options: Brooklyn or Philly.  Philly will try and include Simmons plus additional assets, while Brooklyn doesn't have a true centerpiece player, but will include a lot of their current roster.  If I was Houston, I think I would try and get Brooklyn to get a third team involved to get an enticing but unproven prospect like Porter Jr. on the Nuggets.  Maybe Houston can get some combo of Porter Jr and 2-3 of the Nets more promising players with multiple picks and pick swaps in an overall three way package.  Force Gordon and Tucker out (Tucker will be valued as an asset as it is by most teams) as part of the package.  Denver is unlikely to trade Porter Jr, but their team is very close to being a legitimate championship team, and they might be persuaded if the right immediate pieces are included.  I don't like Harden on the Nets that much if Kyrie is still there, but you can understand Brooklyn taking that chance. 

Somebody has been listening to Bill Simmons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, UTDD said:

Just silly.  2016 yes, 2020 no way that was historically tough.

Yeah it was. Completely unprecedented obviously.  They spent 96 days in the bubble.    The mental grind of living in that environment and away from family and simple freedoms is something that we've never seen.

[d2o 1602]

37 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Somebody has been listening to Bill Simmons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, reading that had me completely confused.    The Nets don't have the star player that you want but you think they have enough to rope DEN into trading MPJ???

[BradInATX 9208]

8 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

You’re a little higher on NOLAs upside than I am, but throw the Suns and Hawks in the mix as well.

I think it's more likely that they end up lottery than playoffs, but I could see a world where Ingram and Zion take steps, better coaching helps, and Adams takes some pressure off of Zion down low. Perfect storm that gets them ahead of schedule a bit.

I think there's almost no chance the Suns are a bad team. Tough to predict playoffs with how ridiculous the West is, but there's too much talent with a hall of fame veteran floor general to tie it together. I can't see them being worse than a 38 or so win team.

[UTDD 362]

18 minutes ago, d2o said:

Yeah it was. Completely unprecedented obviously.  They spent 96 days in the bubble.    The mental grind of living in that environment and away from family and simple freedoms is something that we've never seen.

Every team had the same situation, and the talent difference was still significant.  If the Lakers were the only team dealing with the bubble, I would feel differently, but every team had the same handicap.

[UTDD 362]

57 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Somebody has been listening to Bill Simmons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No actually, but if he said that, I would agree depending what he said.  I actually used to like him as a writer, but not so much on TV.

[UTDD 362]

20 minutes ago, d2o said:

Yeah, reading that had me completely confused.    The Nets don't have the star player that you want but you think they have enough to rope DEN into trading MPJ???

Maybe yes, if Houston adds assets to Denver as well to give them a shot this year.  I do think it's unlikely Denver gives up MPJ, his potential talent upside is way too high in my opinion.

[d2o 1602]

7 minutes ago, UTDD said:

Every team had the same situation, and the talent difference was still significant.  If the Lakers were the only team dealing with the bubble, I would feel differently, but every team had the same handicap.

Funny that all offseason we heard that they had LBJ/AD and a bunch of vert min guys.  The Clips were so much more talented and more.  Now the talent difference was significant.  

[d2o 1602]

6 minutes ago, UTDD said:

Maybe yes, if Houston adds assets to Denver as well to give them a shot this year.  I do think it's unlikely Denver gives up MPJ, his potential talent upside is way too high in my opinion.

What exactly does HOU have that would make DEN even think about giving them MPJ?   

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, d2o said:

Funny that all offseason we heard that they had LBJ/AD and a bunch of vert min guys.  The Clips were so much more talented and more.  Now the talent difference was significant.  

Everyone slept on playoff Rondo the legend.

[UTDD 362]

Just now, d2o said:

Funny that all offseason we heard that they had LBJ/AD and a bunch of vert min guys.  The Clips were so much more talented and more.  Now the talent difference was significant.  

Why are the Clippers even relevant?  They didn't even play the Lakers.  Between Miami and L.A. I do think there was a talent difference absolutely, not even mentioning the injuries to Bam for a bit and Dragic.  I think the Clippers were pretty evenly matched in talent but they really choked frankly.  Look at the SRS ratings of the Lakers opponents this past playoffs versus most years.  

[TommyGufano 6021]

8 hours ago, UTDD said:

I think Houston has two main realistic options: Brooklyn or Philly.  Philly will try and include Simmons plus additional assets, while Brooklyn doesn't have a true centerpiece player, but will include a lot of their current roster.  If I was Houston, I think I would try and get Brooklyn to get a third team involved to get an enticing but unproven prospect like Porter Jr. on the Nuggets.  Maybe Houston can get some combo of Porter Jr and 2-3 of the Nets more promising players with multiple picks and pick swaps in an overall three way package.  Force Gordon and Tucker out (Tucker will be valued as an asset as it is by most teams) as part of the package.  Denver is unlikely to trade Porter Jr, but their team is very close to being a legitimate championship team, and they might be persuaded if the right immediate pieces are included.  I don't like Harden on the Nets that much if Kyrie is still there, but you can understand Brooklyn taking that chance. 

 

1 hour ago, HookEm said:

Somebody has been listening to Bill Simmons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UTDD 362]

8 minutes ago, d2o said:

Funny that all offseason we heard that they had LBJ/AD and a bunch of vert min guys.  The Clips were so much more talented and more.  Now the talent difference was significant.  

 

I don't say this is conclusive on its face, but it's absolutely relevant to some extent.

Opponent SRS rating: (playoffs)

1995	Houston Rockets	23.96
2020*	Miami Heat*	23.15*
2001	Los Angeles Lakers	22.15
1997	Chicago Bulls	20.82
2002	Los Angeles Lakers	20.77
2000	Los Angeles Lakers	18.79
2011	Dallas Mavericks	18.43
2016	Cleveland Cavaliers	18.38
2014	San Antonio Spurs	18.16
1994	Houston Rockets	17.86
1993	Chicago Bulls	17.77
2019	Toronto Raptors	16.99
2010	Los Angeles Lakers	16.92
2003	San Antonio Spurs	16.6
1996	Chicago Bulls	16.5
1998	Chicago Bulls	16.31
2009	Los Angeles Lakers	15.65
2007	San Antonio Spurs	15.36
2005	San Antonio Spurs	15.21
1989	Detroit Pistons	13.88
2006	Miami Heat	13.82
2017	Golden State Warriors	13.77
2012	Miami Heat	13.69
2018	Golden State Warriors	13.17
2015	Golden State Warriors	12.65
1992	Chicago Bulls	12.01
2004	Detroit Pistons	11.58
2008	Boston Celtics	11.25
1990	Detroit Pistons	9.82
1999	San Antonio Spurs	9.63
1991	Chicago Bulls	8.99
2013	Miami Heat	8.16
2020*	Los Angeles Lakers*	7.46*
1988	Los Angeles Lakers	6.99

Edited December 8, 2020 by UTDD
e

[conVINCEd 21469]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

I think it's more likely that they end up lottery than playoffs, but I could see a world where Ingram and Zion take steps, better coaching helps, and Adams takes some pressure off of Zion down low. Perfect storm that gets them ahead of schedule a bit.

I think there's almost no chance the Suns are a bad team. Tough to predict playoffs with how ridiculous the West is, but there's too much talent with a hall of fame veteran floor general to tie it together. I can't see them being worse than a 38 or so win team.

The Suns have been a bad team for quite some time with the exception of 8 games in the bubble.  I tend to agree with you, but we are both basing it on a really small sample size.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18551]

Talking about the deltas for teams like the Rox and Pels... I just pulled the win total o/u for every team -- 76 game schedule. They have the Rockets at 35.5, which translates to ~38 wins in a normal season. That seems low considering they have one of the best 5-ish players in the league. Of course, it's not hard to imagine them completely bottoming out. Also Milwaukee has the highest number at 50.5, or ~55 wins in a full season. When was the last time the team with the best record in the league didn't have more than 55 wins? The Lakers at 47 wins? That's a 50 win pace, which seems way low to me.

Milwaukee Bucks 50.5

Boston Celtics 46.5

Brooklyn Nets 45.5

Miami Heat 44.5

Philadelphia 76ers 44.5

Toronto Raptors 41.5

Indiana Pacers 39.5

Atlanta Hawks 36.5

Orlando Magic 32.5

Washington Wizards 29.5

Chicago Bulls 29.5

Charlotte Hornets 25.5

Detroit Pistons 23.5

New York Knicks 22.5

Cleveland Cavaliers 22.5

 

Los Angeles Lakers 47.5

Los Angeles Clippers 46.5

Denver Nuggets 44.5

Dallas Mavericks 42.5

Portland Trail Blazers 40.5

Utah Jazz 40.5

Phoenix Suns 38.5

Golden State Warriors 36.5

New Orleans Pelicans 36.5

Houston Rockets 35.5

Memphis Grizzlies 31.5

Sacramento Kings 28.5

San Antonio Spurs 28.5

Minnesota Timberwolves 27.5

Oklahoma City Thunder 23.5

[BradInATX 9208]

19 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

The Suns have been a bad team for quite some time with the exception of 8 games in the bubble.  I tend to agree with you, but we are both basing it on a really small sample size.

Suns were 34-39 last year. Even if you remove the bubble games (which is probably a bit unfair), they won 40% of their games last year which plays out to 33 wins in a full season. They weren't Kings or Knicks bad. I see a pretty easy path to 40+ wins. CP3 is worth a few games over Rubio. General improvement of the youngsters and hopefully carrying over some of what they learned in the bubble is worth a few more.

The risk there is probably CP3 and injury, which is a real risk. That's the only scenario where I see them winning less than 35 games.

Edited December 8, 2020 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9208]

10 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Talking about the deltas for teams like the Rox and Pels... I just pulled the win total o/u for every team -- 76 game schedule. They have the Rockets at 35.5, which translates to ~38 wins in a normal season. That seems low considering they have one of the best 5-ish players in the league. Of course, it's not hard to imagine them completely bottoming out. Also Milwaukee has the highest number at 50.5, or ~55 wins in a full season. When was the last time the team with the best record in the league didn't have more than 55 wins? The Lakers at 47 wins? That's a 50 win pace, which seems way low to me.

Milwaukee Bucks 50.5

Boston Celtics 46.5

Brooklyn Nets 45.5

Miami Heat 44.5

Philadelphia 76ers 44.5

Toronto Raptors 41.5

Indiana Pacers 39.5

Atlanta Hawks 36.5

Orlando Magic 32.5

Washington Wizards 29.5

Chicago Bulls 29.5

Charlotte Hornets 25.5

Detroit Pistons 23.5

New York Knicks 22.5

Cleveland Cavaliers 22.5

 

Los Angeles Lakers 47.5

Los Angeles Clippers 46.5

Denver Nuggets 44.5

Dallas Mavericks 42.5

Portland Trail Blazers 40.5

Utah Jazz 40.5

Phoenix Suns 38.5

Golden State Warriors 36.5

New Orleans Pelicans 36.5

Houston Rockets 35.5

Memphis Grizzlies 31.5

Sacramento Kings 28.5

San Antonio Spurs 28.5

Minnesota Timberwolves 27.5

Oklahoma City Thunder 23.5

That sure is low for Houston isn't it? I wonder if there's risk of a rebuild or a Harden holdout built in there. If Harden and Wall are full strength they're not going to lose 47 games.

Lots of intriguing stuff on the board. All of the favorites are low, but you usually see that with the Vegas O/U win total bets, because there's injury risked baked in. A serious Giannis, Lebron, AD, Kawhi, Tatum or Durant injury would push any of those teams below.

I like that Milwaukee bet. There is no chance they win fewer than 51 games unless Giannis misses significant time. Hell I think a scrappy group of Holiday, Middleton and Lopez can keep them at .500 ball in the East even if Giannis misses some games. I also like the Suns and Raptors overs. Kings and Thunder under. I like the Spurs over too but that's pure homer.

Edited December 8, 2020 by BradInATX

[Mitch Cumsteen 18551]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

That sure is low for Houston isn't it? I wonder if there's risk of a rebuild or a Harden holdout built in there. If Harden and Wall are full strength they're not going to lose 47 games.

Lots of intriguing stuff on the board. All of the favorites are low, but you usually see that with the Vegas O/U win total bets, because there's injury risked baked in. A serious Giannis, Lebron, AD, Kawhi, Tatum or Durant injury would push any of those teams below.

I like that Milwaukee bet. There is no chance they win fewer than 51 games unless Giannis misses significant time.

All the numbers seem low. Maybe they are factoring in greater load management during a compressed season? That would make some sense.

[BradInATX 9208]

Shit I'm glad you posted that. You reminded me that I still have a $200 Spurs over ticket from last year that I have to send back postmarked before tip-off of this season to get my money back as a push/no-bet.

[HornOnTheBayou 8945]

25 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Also Milwaukee has the highest number at 50.5, or ~55 wins in a full season. When was the last time the team with the best record in the league didn't have more than 55 wins? The Lakers at 47 wins? That's a 50 win pace, which seems way low to me.

Remember that over/unders tend to be fairly conservative. You're not going to see many totals on the extreme high or low end, even though we know that some teams are going to have more than 50 wins or fewer than 20 wins this year. And, yes, load management is probably playing a big part in those calculations also.

[TommyGufano 6021]

Isn't it a 72-game season?

[d2o 1602]

21 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

Isn't it a 72-game season?

yes

[BradInATX 9208]

[conVINCEd 21469]

46 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

All the numbers seem low. Maybe they are factoring in greater load management during a compressed season? That would make some sense.

Load management + COVID, although I suspect the NBA will get find a way to jump a few spots in the vaccine line. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by conVINCEd

[Mitch Cumsteen 18551]

57 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

Isn't it a 72-game season?

 

35 minutes ago, d2o said:

yes

[conVINCEd 21469]

25 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

 

Don”t sell yourself short Mitch, you’re a tremendous stupid person.  As am I, because I messed up the math too the first time I looked at the list.

[shadow_operative 15932]

7 hours ago, UTDD said:

Just silly.  2016 yes, 2020 no way that was historically tough.

seriously. they played the 5 seed from the East, a team who nobody had even going to the Finals, or really even making any noise in the playoffs to begin with. as for the series, games 1 and 2 weren't  even close, the. LAL went up 3-1, and won in 6. his head is so far up his own ass on this one that m, even for LeBron, this type of self aggrandizement is over the top. 

[d2o 1602]

24 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

seriously. they played the 5 seed from the East, a team who nobody had even going to the Finals, or really even making any noise in the playoffs to begin with. as for the series, games 1 and 2 weren't  even close, the. LAL went up 3-1, and won in 6. his head is so far up his own ass on this one that m, even for LeBron, this type of self aggrandizement is over the top. 

I know a lot of yall like to shit on LBJ but acting like the mental toll of being in the bubble while the rest of the world is in the middle of a pandemic is nothing is fucking foolish

[Kermit 3158]

6 minutes ago, d2o said:

I know a lot of yall like to shit on LBJ but acting like the mental toll of being in the bubble while the rest of the world is in the middle of a pandemic is nothing is fucking foolish

Poor Lebron.

[BradInATX 9208]

You and I both thought they were low which might be the first time we've agreed on anything and it turns out we're both stupid idiots. Strong morning.

[Drew 2516]

12 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

lolololololol:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIhi-QnITvw/?igshid=tz854u2u9fof

 

god damn it, IG still doesn't embed. a summary:

"One thing that I know for sure; that ive been a part of two teams that won the two toughest championships in NBA history." he includes his most recent win vs the Heat on that list. 

Yeah SUCH a ridiculous take.  

When someone takes this kind of stance they mean the entire Finals run, not just the Finals.  2016 was an amazing accomplishment...down 3-1 to that GSW team? Crazy.  

BUT they had a cakewalk through the Eastern Conference in 2016.  Wasn't even close to competitive.

 

Now 2020 was strange, but they went through the SAME thing as every other team, and obviously made up for a lack of overall talent for a better constructed, veteran heavy team with 2 of the top 4 players in the league.  They didn't struggle in any series.  Didn't get to 6 games in what, 2 or 3 series?  It was a walk.

No they weren't the 2 toughest, and honestly not 2 OF the toughest IMO.

6 hours ago, d2o said:

Yeah it was. Completely unprecedented obviously.  They spent 96 days in the bubble.    The mental grind of living in that environment and away from family and simple freedoms is something that we've never seen.

Just like every other team. Fact is they 2 of the top 4 players and a well rounded roster(something we did not think during the year and were obviously wrong)

5 hours ago, d2o said:

Funny that all offseason we heard that they had LBJ/AD and a bunch of vert min guys.  The Clips were so much more talented and more.  Now the talent difference was significant.  

The Clips DID have more talent, and no chemistry and they didn't like each other. That stuff matters.

5 hours ago, UTDD said:

Why are the Clippers even relevant?  They didn't even play the Lakers.  Between Miami and L.A. I do think there was a talent difference absolutely, not even mentioning the injuries to Bam for a bit and Dragic.  I think the Clippers were pretty evenly matched in talent but they really choked frankly.  Look at the SRS ratings of the Lakers opponents this past playoffs versus most years.  

Exactly.

7 minutes ago, d2o said:

I know a lot of yall like to shit on LBJ but acting like the mental toll of being in the bubble while the rest of the world is in the middle of a pandemic is nothing is fucking foolish

This has nothing to do with shitting on Lebron.  The dude made a ridiculous claim that should just make all of us laugh, and instead you're trying to justify it.

[BradInATX 9208]

I know a lot of yall like to shit on LBJ but acting like the mental toll of being in the bubble while the rest of the world is in the middle of a pandemic is nothing is fucking foolish

Fuckin millennials, man. Bet he eats avocado toast

[d2o 1602]

Its not ridiculous but hey do you.   And I said long before the playoffs even started this unprecedented situation makes this one of the most difficult title runs ever and I didnt care who won it.

Edited December 8, 2020 by d2o

[shadow_operative 15932]

28 minutes ago, d2o said:

I know a lot of yall like to shit on LBJ but acting like the mental toll of being in the bubble while the rest of the world is in the middle of a pandemic is nothing is fucking foolish

who's doing that? we're talking specifically about the idea that the 2020 NBA title was one of the two toughest titles in history, which is a joke. 

[d2o 1602]

Just now, shadow_operative said:

who's doing that? we're talking specifically about the idea that the 2020 NBA title was one of the two toughest titles in history, which is a joke. 

You are cause that was his point.