2020 NBA Offseason Thread (Abbreviated) -- Draft, Free Agency, Trades, etc

[Message Board User 12395]

Speaking of Harden...

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30528130/james-harden-houston-rockets-breaking-point

 

[ztejas 43526]

Those lemon pepper wings at Treasures hit different.

Especially when you eat 40 of em.

[SilasCoade 2622]

1 hour ago, Llogg said:

Wasn't he strung out skinny in a pic just a few months ago?

Found it. That was like 6 months ago.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Speaking of Harden...

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30528130/james-harden-houston-rockets-breaking-point

 

That ESPN article is awesome.

Unless they were on the front end of a back-to-back set, it was essentially a sure thing that the Rockets stayed overnight -- or even an extra day -- after games in Los Angeles, Phoenix and other road cities that rank among Harden's favorite stops.

If the Rockets had two or three days between games, it was a good bet Harden would call for an off day and charter a private jet to party in Las Vegas or another city. He always gets an excused absence from the first practice after the All-Star break for the same reason.

Quote

HOUSTON'S CASUAL CULTURE appalled Westbrook. In Oklahoma City, despite the fact that he enjoyed the same sort of superstar privileges as Harden has had in Houston, the Thunder operated with the discipline of a military unit under Westbrook's watch. The Rockets were a stark contrast, especially last season under D'Antoni, who was never known as a disciplinarian and who was a lame duck in the last year of his contract after extension negotiations infamously fizzled twice over the summer.

Westbrook didn't tolerate tardiness. With the Rockets, scheduled departure times were treated as mere suggestions by Harden and others.

"Nothing ever starts on time," a former Rockets staffer said. "The plane is always late. The bus is never on time. ... It's just an organized AAU team."

On one occasion in the Florida bubble, Harden waited to get his daily COVID-19 testing until just before the Rockets' film session was scheduled to start. When he wasn't on time, Westbrook barked, "Start the film! Start without him!" D'Antoni explained that they'd just have to start over when Harden arrived, which didn't do much to calm Westbrook.

Whether Westbrook or Harden wanted out first isn't clear, but they no longer wanted to play together, a season after the Rockets mortgaged their draft future to make it happen.

 

Quote

After the Rockets let it be known they would not be swayed by unhappiness, Harden delayed his arrival to camp, instead choosing to hang out with rapper Lil Baby -- gifting his friend a Prada bag stuffed with honey buns, a $100,000 brick of cash (aka a "Honey Bun") and a Richard Mille watch worth well into six figures for Lil Baby's birthday -- while leaving Silas hanging.

It's hilarious how badly they have enabled him and then he has the balls to make a trade demand while showing up to play in horrible shape. And it won't matter because he's going to show up to the next game with a 40 and 10. Adding Demarcus Cousins to this mix has got to be the one of the greatest personnel fits in recent memory. That's going to be awesome to watch.

As an aside, I thought John Wall looked great last night. I don't have any faith in his staying healthy, but he looked about a million times better than I thought he would. 

[aggie08 21514]

Hello, interested NBA teams. Along with the usual superstar perks of making personnel and coaching decisions, I'd like to dictate the practice schedule based on my party routine. I also want the offense to be structured around me dribbling the air out of the ball, so I can score 35 and be in the MVP conversation every year (as an aside, I'll get to use my preferred style of play as an excuse to why I'm "tired" come the playoffs). I may or may not show up fat and disinterested. Please trade all of your assets to get me out of Houston.

[Sbbruin 21866]

4 hours ago, d2o said:

I hope this is just a bad angle or a doctored pic.   If not, this isnt a good sign.    Shawn Kemp post-strike vibes.

 

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

You have to trade for that tub of shit if he’s available.




Look what he brings to the table:

You’ll get to give up your young players and multiple draft picks to offset the shit the Rockets have traded for failed experiments with CP3 and Westbrook

Partying habits out of control and noted

$40,000,000 a year contract

Basically a statue on defense

12 3 pointers attempted a game

Underperforms on the big stage unless he gets 27 free throws to offset 3 point misses

Didn’t work out with other super stars on his team but he will work with yours, Miami

We’re told he makes you an instant contender

What else did I miss?

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Hello, interested NBA teams. Along with the usual superstar perks of making personnel and coaching decisions, I'd like to dictate the practice schedule based on my party routine. I also want the offense to be structured around me dribbling the air out of the ball, so I can score 35 and be in the MVP conversation every year (as an aside, I'll get to use my preferred style of play as an excuse to why I'm "tired" come the playoffs). I may or may not show up fat and disinterested. Please trade all of your assets to get me out of Houston.

Lol stole my thunder

[ztejas 43526]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

That ESPN article is awesome.

Unless they were on the front end of a back-to-back set, it was essentially a sure thing that the Rockets stayed overnight -- or even an extra day -- after games in Los Angeles, Phoenix and other road cities that rank among Harden's favorite stops.

If the Rockets had two or three days between games, it was a good bet Harden would call for an off day and charter a private jet to party in Las Vegas or another city. He always gets an excused absence from the first practice after the All-Star break for the same reason.

 

It's hilarious how badly they have enabled him and then he has the balls to make a trade demand while showing up to play in horrible shape. And it won't matter because he's going to show up to the next game with a 40 and 10. Adding Demarcus Cousins to this mix has got to be the one of the greatest personnel fits in recent memory. That's going to be awesome to watch.

As an aside, I thought John Wall looked great last night. I don't have any faith in his staying healthy, but he looked about a million times better than I thought he would. 

Yeah but he and the Heat would be a match made in heaven! Jimmy Butler would feel like he's looking in a mirror! He'd be a perfect fit within Spo and Riley's cutthroat, perfectionist culture!

[d2o 1602]

Man that article is pretty wild.    Seems the HOU folks would wait until after they traded him to allow those quotes to get out.     I imagine teams that are doing their work already know most of it though.   Can't do much to help their chances of getting the haul that they claim to want for him 

[Kermit 3158]

Would Houston take a year’s supply of churros and some Taco Cabana gift cards for Harden? I know James would like that trade.

[HtownHorn 14760]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

Those lemon pepper wings at Treasures hit different.

Especially when you eat 40 of em.

Treasures was shut down years ago. It's now the Mandarin Immersion Magnet School

[ztejas 43526]

26 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Treasures was shut down years ago. It's now the Mandarin Immersion Magnet School

Do they have good wings?

[Catdaddyhorn 3447]

 

[CBT 1283]

This is fantastic.

 

 

[BradInATX 9208]

My biggest takeaway from the Harden thing is what grown ass man gives another grown ass man that they're not related to cash for a birthday? 100k? To an already successful rapper? Huh. They fuckin'?

[Murfdogg21 4423]

Did Harden or his friends/camp leak the shit (and pack on 25 lbs) to hurt his trade value, force the Rockets’ hand a little, and help his new team by not having to give up as much? An interesting strategy. 

[conVINCEd 21469]

1 hour ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Did Harden or his friends/camp leak the shit (and pack on 25 lbs) to hurt his trade value, force the Rockets’ hand a little, and help his new team by not having to give up as much? An interesting strategy. 

The coaching staff and front office changed.  Plenty of people who no longer give a fuck what Harden or Houston management thinks about what they have to say.

[d2o 1602]

10 hours ago, BradInATX said:

My biggest takeaway from the Harden thing is what grown ass man gives another grown ass man that they're not related to cash for a birthday? 100k? To an already successful rapper? Huh. They fuckin'?
 

I gave up trying to understand kids long ago.

[d2o 1602]

7 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

The coaching staff and front office changed.  Plenty of people who no longer give a fuck what Harden or Houston management thinks about what they have to say.

The quotes came from member of the previous coaching staff.  I dont know that they are now associated with Morey/PHI but its possible.

[conVINCEd 21469]

2 hours ago, d2o said:

The quotes came from member of the previous coaching staff.  I dont know that they are now associated with Morey/PHI but its possible.

I was just saying that if they are no longer being paid by Houston they have no incentive to keep their mouth shut.  I wasn’t suggesting any sabotage to lower Harden’s value.

[d2o 1602]

1 minute ago, conVINCEd said:

I was just saying that if they are no longer being paid by Houston they have no incentive to keep their mouth shut.  I wasn’t suggesting any sabotage to lower Harden’s value.

And I'm saying it could be either.   LOL.   I wouldn't rule out Morey having someone out there doing it.

[HtownHorn 14760]

7 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I was just saying that if they are no longer being paid by Houston they have no incentive to keep their mouth shut.  I wasn’t suggesting any sabotage to lower Harden’s value.

Harden could play like shit for the 1st 3 months and still have the same value he does today. Regular season James Harden is an offensive force that few in the history of the league can match. Playoff James Harden is a completely different player and will need the help of a true playoff alpha to get over the hump.

[BradInATX 9208]

No more than a week or two ago I posted that I wasn't sure whether Harden's aloofness and seeming lack of engagement with basketball was just that he's a bro with a ton of money that likes to party and bang sluts, or if there was more depth beneath his flighty oddball exterior. I'm not going to put full stock in hearsay type articles, but this definitely pushes the needle towards the "he's just a dudebro that likes to get fucked up and party" and not that he's some sort of brooding intellectual who just isn't stimulated by basketball.

Honestly doesn't make me think any less of him. There's nothing wrong with partying and finding work/life balance and being 90% of the player he could be, which is still hall-of-fame. But it's going to make him a tough fit for the alphas in the league who are neurotically success-focused and who don't suffer half-ass efforts. Westbrook is one of those neurotic guys and apparently Harden drove him through the roof. 

So it's going to be difficult for Harden to slot into a contender. I struggle to think of any stars that aren't that neurotic type driven by a singular vision for rings and legacy. At least not guys that have won rings.

[ztejas 43526]

10 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

and not that he's some sort of brooding intellectual who just isn't stimulated by basketball.

I think he likes playing basketball. I don't think he cares about winning and I've thought that for a few years now. 

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I think he likes playing basketball. I don't think he cares about winning and I've thought that for a few years now. 

Yeah. Iverson was a little bit like that too.

[ztejas 43526]

16 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I struggle to think of any stars that aren't that neurotic type driven by a singular vision for rings and legacy. At least not guys that have won rings.

Oh... well, there are plenty that at least somewhat fit the bill. Wilt, Shaq, DRob, KD, Dirk maybe. I wouldn't say any of those guys are neurotic about winning - KD probably the closest out of that bunch. Shaq cared about rings I'm sure but he never worked as hard as he could have. A lot of laurel resting. Wilt was never really a cutthroat, balls to the walls competitor. Dirk was a cool customer that didn't seem to lose sleep over all of his early exits. Not sure if DRob fits your criteria since he never won as the best player on his team - but he seemed to be comfortable with his position win or lose.

(To your point though - I'd say all of those guys are better players than Harden)

I wonder about Lillard sometimes. And Embiid.

Edited December 17, 2020 by ztejas

[conVINCEd 21469]

1 minute ago, BradInATX said:

Yeah. Iverson was a little bit like that too.

That’s a bad take on Iverson.  Nobody played harder than him.  He took a team that had no business making it out of the first round to the Finals.

[ztejas 43526]

1 minute ago, conVINCEd said:

That’s a bad take on Iverson.  Nobody played harder than him.  He took a team that had no business making it out of the first round to the Finals.

Probably right. There's a difference between not caring that much about winning and caring a lot and simply not being a good winner.

See: Westbrook, Russell. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Just now, ztejas said:

Oh... well, there are plenty that at least somewhat fit the bill. Wilt, Shaq, DRob, KD, Dirk maybe. I wouldn't say any of those guys are neurotic about winning - KD probably the closest out of that bunch. Shaq cared about rings I'm sure but he never worked as hard as he could have. A lot of laurel resting. Wilt was never really a cutthroat, balls to the walls competitor. Dirk was a cool customer that didn't seem to lose sleep over all of his early exits. Not sure if DRob fits your criteria since he never won as the best player on his team - but he seemed to be comfortable with his position win or lose.

I wonder about Lillard sometimes. And Embiid.

DRob, Shaq, and KD only won rings when they were paired up with guys who were the neurotic alpha type.***

Dirk, maybe. Yeah. He's on that borderline. Dude peaced out to Australia in the offseason one year. 

Agreed on Embiid. I don't wonder at all. I think it's pretty clear that he's of the Harden mold. Probably Lillard too. The one I'm not sure about is Giannis. Not that he's a slacker but I don't know that he breathes and dreams basketball. He's probably closer to the DRob mold that you mentioned.

 

*** I'm actually not sure Timmy fit the bill 100% there either. But Timmy and DRob were both, if not neurotically addicted to basketball, professionals who worked hard and studied hard and put in the hours and work. 

[ztejas 43526]

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

DRob, Shaq, and KD only won rings when they were paired up with guys who were the neurotic alpha type.***

Good point on Shaq. And I assume you're talking about Draymond? I wouldn't say Curry is more competitive than KD. Then again, not sure KD fits the criteria anyway. He's always been a bit of a dog and has always worked his ass off. 

Oh - and on Duncan - don't let him fool you. I can count on one hand the amount of guys in NBA history as obsessed with winning as him. He didn't play to put up numbers or get on sportscenter - he played to break people.

Edited December 17, 2020 by ztejas

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

That’s a bad take on Iverson.  Nobody played harder than him.  He took a team that had no business making it out of the first round to the Finals.

We're not talking about playing hard. Lots of guys play hard in game situations. Chris Paul plays hard but he's not of the legacy/winning-obsessed mold like the guys who we're taking about. Neither is Iverson. Iverson was known for missing practices, not practicing hard, and missing film sessions. I mean, he literally said so himself.

So no, it wasn't a bad take at all. Iverson is the guy who shows up at 8am, works hard all day, and leaves at 5pm on the dot. Jordan, LeBron, Curry, Magic, Kobe, etc. are not 8 to 5ers, and that's what we're talking about.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Good point on Shaq. And I assume you're talking about Draymond? I wouldn't say Curry is more competitive than KD. Then again, not sure KD fits the criteria anyway. He's always been a bit of a dog and has always worked his ass off. 

Curry isn't outwardly demonstrative but I don't think anyone who knows anything about him would deny that he's obsessive about basketball and improving his game and winning and immortalizing himself. Dude is competitive as fuck.

I guess with Harden vs. these other guys, it comes down to.. "are they obsessed with basketball?". Kobe, Jordan, LeBron, Curry, Magic, Isaiah, yes. Jimmy Butler and most of the Heat team.. yes. Kawhi - yes. 

Timmy, DRob, Dirk, KD - murky

Harden, Iverson, Embiid, Lillard - nope

Edited December 17, 2020 by BradInATX

[ztejas 43526]

3 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I don't think anyone who knows anything about him would deny that he's obsessive about basketball and improving his game and winning and immortalizing himself. Dude is competitive as fuck.

And you could probably say the same about Durant. I shouldn't have listed him. By a lot of accounts he's a close to generational trash talker.

I mean, here:

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by ztejas

[d2o 1602]

14 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

That’s a bad take on Iverson.  Nobody played harder than him.  He took a team that had no business making it out of the first round to the Finals.

I LOVE AI.   He wanted to win and gave his everything to doing so.....................BUT he was only willing to play his way which was not exactly conducive to winning.  

Edited December 17, 2020 by d2o

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

And you could probably say the same about Durant. I shouldn't have listed him. By a lot of accounts he's a close to generational trash talker.

Maybe. I honestly don't know a lot about KD's view on basketball. I know that he is a big thin skinned pussy who creates fake Twitter accounts to defend his own honor and joined the team that beat his ass because he wanted to coattail instead of compete. But that doesn't mean he's not obsessive/driven,  it just means he's a bitch.

Edited December 17, 2020 by BradInATX

[BradInATX 9208]

@ztejas regarding Timmy. Even after watching him for almost two decades and him being my favorite player of all time he's still a bit of a mystery to me. Dude just left basketball with probably a couple of decent years left and never looked back. Look at where the rest of the living top-10 type players are. Jordan, Magic, Thomas still intimately involved with the game. LeBron will be active when he's gone.

Timmy just walked the fuck on to work on cars and play video games. What a weird and bad ass guy. I miss him. 

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

@ztejas regarding Timmy. Even after watching him for almost two decades and him being my favorite player of all time he's still a bit of a mystery to me. Dude just left basketball with probably a couple of decent years left and never looked back. Look at where the rest of the living top-10 type players are. Jordan, Magic, Thomas still intimately involved with the game. LeBron will be active when he's gone.

Timmy just walked the fuck on to work on cars and play video games. What a weird and bad ass guy. I miss him. 

Timmy was an asst with Pop until last season.    He was reportedly always around practice prior to finally joining the staff.

[ztejas 43526]

4 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Timmy just walked the fuck on to work on cars and play video games.

...after hanging 5 banners up

And he is just recently off the Spurs coaching staff. I'm sure he still works guys out if/when Pop asks him to. 

Here's a good read for you:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.poundingtherock.com/platform/amp/2014/6/15/5811100/nba-finals-spurs-tim-duncan-mystery-revealed

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, d2o said:

Timmy was an asst with Pop until last season.    He was reportedly always around practice prior to finally joining the staff.

I'm aware. I'm a pretty rabid Spurs fan. If anything the assistant coach thing bears out what I'm saying even more. He did it for a year and then was like "nah". It's fairly well known that Timmy hung around just to be one of the guys, not because he was obsessed with basketball.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

AI just didn’t like practice man...practice

[Brothahorn 10087]

19 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

 

First of many Hayward injury reports this season.

[Drew 2512]

Not letting this Dirk slander slide.  Dude LIVED basketball.  Worked harder than anyone of his era. Always went into the off season and worked on a part of his game to become better and he improved his first 10-12 years at something...almost no one else could say that.

 

Yes he went to Australia one offseason(remarkably the season BEFORE his Title) but that dude worked.  There's a reason they called him having bionic ankles.  Only guy in the league that could suffer a major ankle roll that keeps guys out 2+ weeks and he'd be back in 2 days.

No he didn't kill himself over early exits, or at least not publicly, as you'd expect...but he was definitely one of those driven guys.  

 

Now AFTER he won that title? The one he worked his whole career to?  Yeah, maybe he took the next couple of years a little easier...but that's after 12 years of being super driven.

[ztejas 43526]

8 minutes ago, Drew said:

Worked harder than anyone of his era.

Oh whatever. How would you even know that? He was a phenomenal player but past his first few years he wasn't making leaps or transforming his play. 

And lol at "slander". Calling someone a better player than James Harden couldn't be further from slander. Right off the bat that puts you with no more than 50 guys.

Edited December 17, 2020 by ztejas

[Drew 2512]

Dude THAT's not what I was talking about.

 

The Slander was talking about how he never "lost any sleep over early playoff losses" and he didn't work all that hard like other guys listed above.

And if you don't think Dirk was making any leaps his first few years you obviously are under 30 or flat weren't paying attention.  He was a stick in his first season, barely looked like he belonged.  By the end of year 3 he was going toe to toe with Karl Malone and the Jazz. He improved every year getting better and better.  That's fact.

Sorry but people today seem to overlook Dirk and what he was. That dude would DOMINATE in today's wide floor spacing 3 ball era(not the 40 year old Dirk, the 21-30 year old Dirk)

Seems like you took offense to something for no damned reason.

[ztejas 43526]

4 minutes ago, Drew said:

and he didn't work all that hard like other guys listed above.

And if you don't think Dirk was making any leaps his first few years you obviously are under 30 or flat weren't paying attention. 

Holy fuck learn to read. Bye.

[d2o 1602]

 

 

 

[Drew 2512]

Says the guy who CLEARLY took offense to me saying that Dirk was being mistyped as a "Not really intense" NBA player.  Maybe I should have said "This has NOTHING to do with Harden".

Jesus Christ grow up.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Clippers getting investigated for tampering on the Kawhi signing, meanwhile Lebron gets brow to demand a trade to the lakers and the nba sweeps it under the rug

[TonyTexas 10521]

It’s hard to take Drew seriously when it comes to his Dallas sports takes. He is blinded by his extreme homerism