2020 NBA Offseason Thread (Abbreviated) -- Draft, Free Agency, Trades, etc

[hobbes2702 13052]

Just now, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Yea not even close. I don’t blow my gasket if someone disagrees with my takes

Jenniferlawrenceokay.gif

[Wulaw Horn 19146]

20 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Yea not even close. I don’t blow my gasket if someone disagrees with my takes

I’m not blowing my gasket. I tried to explain  I was engaging in hyperbole while bored on a Friday afternoon and it wasn’t even directed at any of you fuckers. But ok. If you want to claim (and you seem like you are doing a good job here with it) the title of least knowledgeable or intelligent basketball fan on the board don’t let me stop you. 
I mean- unless that guy that thinks Lebron sucks is still posting here. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

12 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I’m not blowing my gasket. I tried to explain  I was engaging in hyperbole while bored on a Friday afternoon and it wasn’t even directed at any of you fuckers. But ok. If you want to claim (and you seem like you are doing a good job here with it) the title of least knowledgeable or intelligent basketball fan on the board don’t let me stop you. 
I mean- unless that guy that thinks Lebron sucks is still posting here. 

Talk about 58 year olds with outdated takes... Katie Holmes? 

I don't understand the kawhi leaving LA thing. He's not going anywhere. The only way he's leaving LA is if San Diego gets another team. He left two championship organizations to go to the fucking Clippers. Not the Lakers, the Clippers. All he's ever wanted to do is go home. He faked an injury for a full season and gave up supermax money just so he could play there. If I were the Clippers, I would lowball him on his next contract and see if he has the balls to go somewhere else. 

On Harden... He's 31 with a ton of miles on him and a huge cap number, not to mention the stuff about his style of play, his getting along with teammates and his off the court rep. I don't know how anxious I would be to give up a 20 year Herro on a mid first round rookie deal who hasn't come close to his ceiling. I don't think Herro is ever going to be as good as him but I could see him being a Klay Thompson-ish level player. If you thought that was his future, would you include him in that trade or let him grow around Butler and 20 year old Bam while paying him $36,500,000 less than Harden and using that cap for another player or players?

 

 

[ztejas 43526]

15 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

and then they got buttfucked in the finals b/c they had no talent.

Is that what happened? I'm not sure we're watching the same sport. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

52 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Is that what happened? I'm not sure we're watching the same sport. 

Well 2 of their most important guys got hurt, one to the point where he couldn’t play. But yeah, they just got outclassed and had no business being on the same court with the lakers. It was all a bubble induced fluke.

[ztejas 43526]

2 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Well 2 of their most important guys got hurt, one to the point where he couldn’t play. But yeah, they just got outclassed and had no business being on the same court with the lakers. It was all a bubble induced fluke.

It went 6, didn't it? I mean I thought it was going to be a lot uglier than it was. Don't double down for Wulaw. He'll do that himself I'm sure.

[d2o 1602]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

It went 6, didn't it? I mean I thought it was going to be a lot uglier than it was. Don't double down for Wulaw. He'll do that himself I'm sure.

Well you guys have been saying how easy it was for the Lakers.   How can it have been so easy but then when someone calls it easy to make a different point then it wasn't so easy.

[ztejas 43526]

10 minutes ago, d2o said:

Well you guys have been saying how easy it was for the Lakers.   How can it have been so easy but then when someone calls it easy to make a different point then it wasn't so easy.

The goalpost moving is astounding around here. I'm not the one that needs to make up my mind. I can think multiple things are true. Namely:

1. The Laker's run was not some all-time difficult championship to win. That doesn't make it easy. 

2. The Heat's run to the Finals was impressive and less flukey than many would like to admit.

3. The Heat did not get "buttfucked in the Finals because they had no talent". You don't get past the Bucks in 5 games without any talent on your roster.

What is curious to me is how people seem to be claiming that the Lakers title was completely legit and doesn't deserve an asterisk, yet the Heat were only able to do what they did because of the bubble environment and in a normal year would have never pulled off what they did. Maybe the Bucks series looks different in a "normal" year. Maybe the Denver series does, too.

[Wulaw Horn 19146]

The “they had no talent” wasn’t a literal statement-it was hyperbole while goofing around on a Friday. 
if I was trying to be actually fair with what I really meant I would have said-

the heats talent pales in comparison to any team that has made the finals in the past decade at least, with the possible exception of 2018 cabs-but that team had Lebron so it’s in a category all their own. 
the heat had the worst too end player to play in the finals since maybe 2012 San Antonio, but even then twilight Tim Duncan and not quite a Star yet Leonard shit all over the heats top end talent. 
 

But that was less fun to write and took longer. 
 

I’ve already professed my belief that Katie Holmes is the hottest woman in the world to be an unpopular opinion I have and been mocked for it. The heart wants what the heart wants. 

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

The goalpost moving is astounding around here. I'm not the one that needs to make up my mind. I can think multiple things are true. Namely:

1. The Laker's run was not some all-time difficult championship to win. That doesn't make it easy. 

2. The Heat's run to the Finals was impressive and less flukey than many would like to admit.

3. The Heat did not get "buttfucked in the Finals because they had no talent". You don't get past the Bucks in 5 games without any talent on your roster.

What is curious to me is how people seem to be claiming that the Lakers title was completely legit and doesn't deserve an asterisk, yet the Heat were only able to do what they did because of the bubble environment and in a normal year would have never pulled off what they did. Maybe the Bucks series looks different in a "normal" year. Maybe the Denver series does, too.

Your point earlier was that all teams faced the same adversity so why would it deserve an asterisk?

[d2o 1602]

8 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

The “they had no talent” wasn’t a literal statement-it was hyperbole while goofing around on a Friday. 
if I was trying to be actually fair with what I really meant I would have said-

the heats talent pales in comparison to any team that has made the finals in the past decade at least, with the possible exception of 2018 cabs-but that team had Lebron so it’s in a category all their own. 
the heat had the worst too end player to play in the finals since maybe 2012 San Antonio, but even then twilight Tim Duncan and not quite a Star yet Leonard shit all over the heats top end talent. 
 

But that was less fun to write and took longer. 
 

I’ve already professed my belief that Katie Holmes is the hottest woman in the world to be an unpopular opinion I have and been mocked for it. The heart wants what the heart wants. 

dafuq?

[Wulaw Horn 19146]

Just now, d2o said:

dafuq?

Like I said- unpopular opinions you have. 

[d2o 1602]

7 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Like I said- unpopular opinions you have. 

That's pretty far out there but there errbody has their one.

[Kermit 3158]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

the heat had the worst too end player to play in the finals since maybe 2012 San Antonio, but even then twilight Tim Duncan and not quite a Star yet Leonard shit all over the heats top end talent. 

What? I have no idea what this paragraph is saying. Also, change 2012 to 2014.

[Wulaw Horn 19146]

Just now, Kermit said:

What? I have no idea what this paragraph is saying. Also, change 2012 to 2014.

The spurs played in the finals two years in a row. They lost the first one and won the second one. By the time that they played SA the second time Leonard was at the top of his powers more or less and shit all over jimmy Butler as the best player on the heat.  
the year before, before Leonard was at the full peak of his powers (2013 I guess) might be the last year a team made the finals without a player obviously more talented than Jimmy Butler. 
Duncan would have been in his post prime- no longer at the peak of his powers where he was a top 10 all timer, and Leonard hadn’t quite fully ascended to the destroyer of worlds he would become. 

[Kermit 3158]

14 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

The spurs played in the finals two years in a row. They lost the first one and won the second one. By the time that they played SA the second time Leonard was at the top of his powers more or less and shit all over jimmy Butler as the best player on the heat.

We don’t know how good Kawhi was in 2014. He played on a historically great and balanced team. That’s not fair to Jimmy who had a much bigger load to carry in 2020. When it was Kawhi’s turn to carry the load in the playoffs for the Spurs in 2015, he shit himself and looked human against Matt Barnes. 

 

17 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

the year before, before Leonard was at the full peak of his powers (2013 I guess) might be the last year a team made the finals without a player obviously more talented than Jimmy Butler.

Kawhi wasn’t at the peak of his basketball prowess until 2017. It’s a shame we didn’t get the series against the Warriors that so many of us were hoping for. And the Spurs had many players who were historically more talented than Jimmy. Or are we discussing prime abilities? 

 

[Wulaw Horn 19146]

2 minutes ago, Kermit said:

We don’t know how good Kawhi was in 2014. He played on a historically great and balanced team. That’s not fair to Jimmy who had a much bigger load to carry in 2020. When it was Kawhi’s turn to carry the load in the playoffs for the Spurs in 2015, he shit himself and looked human against Matt Barnes. 

 

Kawhi wasn’t at the peak of his basketball prowess until 2017. It’s a shame we didn’t get the series against the Warriors that so many of us were hoping for. And the Spurs had many players who were historically more talented than Jimmy. Or are we discussing prime abilities? 

 

I’m trying to stack the deck as in favor of 2020 Miami as I possibly can from a top end talent standpoint in that year and time and see if there is anybody in the decade you can even come close to making an argument that butler is as good as. The only team- winners or losers- I could say maybe Butler could arguably be in the conversation with as best player on the court would be the spurs two finals entrants and as you pointed out- they were really really really good historically as a team. Duncan and Leonard probably weren’t top 7 or 8 types in 13 or 14. But they were close and you’ve got 4 HOF on that team- even if none of them were at their complete apex those years. They were really damn good. Way more talented than 2020 Miami where it matters. But missing a KD, Steph, Lebron, Dirk in his prime that very other team that made the finals this decade had. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

25 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

The spurs played in the finals two years in a row. They lost the first one and won the second one. By the time that they played SA the second time Leonard was at the top of his powers more or less and shit all over jimmy Butler as the best player on the heat.  
the year before, before Leonard was at the full peak of his powers (2013 I guess) might be the last year a team made the finals without a player obviously more talented than Jimmy Butler. 
Duncan would have been in his post prime- no longer at the peak of his powers where he was a top 10 all timer, and Leonard hadn’t quite fully ascended to the destroyer of worlds he would become. 

Yeah I think saying 2014 Kawhi is better than 2020 Butler is debatable. At that time Kawhi was nowhere near the player he was at the tail end of his time in SA and beyond. He still had a long way to go in terms of creating his own shot and his shooting in general. I’m not saying I think 2020 Butler is better, but I think it’s a lot more debatable than you think. Also, I feel like we’re kind of underestimating what a healthy Bam is in regards to where he ranks with the rest of the NBA. Miami was plenty talented, and I think they would’ve made that an interesting series if Drogic and Bam were 100% like they were for the rest of the playoffs. 

[Wulaw Horn 19146]

If you want to say SA’s title team in 2014 fits the Detroit model of 4 or 5 rally good top 30/40 types that fit together like a glove and play high end basketball really really well (the only other entrants I have in that is 2004 pistons) I won’t argue too much I guess. 

[ztejas 43526]

12 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

By the time that they played SA the second time Leonard was at the top of his powers more or less and shit all over jimmy Butler as the best player on the heat.  

[hobbes2702 13052]

If you can get James Harden you get James Harden. The heat are winning nothing with the roster they have and if you are unwilling to give up Tyler Herro to get James Harden then you won’t be winning much. The Heat have a fine team but Harden makes them a legit contender for the title which frankly they aren’t right now.

[washparkhorn 9939]

5 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Talk about 58 year olds with outdated takes... Katie Holmes? 

_________________________________

And technically, we are no longer in the off-season with the preseason games last night. 

I am liking the additions to Denver. I am ready for the full emergence of MPJ and the larval stage of Bol Bol - who improved in the short off-season.

Edited December 12, 2020 by washparkhorn

[HtownHorn 14760]

9 hours ago, ztejas said:

The goalpost moving is astounding around here. I'm not the one that needs to make up my mind. I can think multiple things are true. Namely:

1. The Laker's run was not some all-time difficult championship to win. That doesn't make it easy. 

2. The Heat's run to the Finals was impressive and less flukey than many would like to admit.

3. The Heat did not get "buttfucked in the Finals because they had no talent". You don't get past the Bucks in 5 games without any talent on your roster.

What is curious to me is how people seem to be claiming that the Lakers title was completely legit and doesn't deserve an asterisk, yet the Heat were only able to do what they did because of the bubble environment and in a normal year would have never pulled off what they did. Maybe the Bucks series looks different in a "normal" year. Maybe the Denver series does, too.

The problem is that the Heat lost two of their best players. So yes, they were without the talent that got them to the finals, and Herro and Robinson got abused as young players without a lot of playoff experience usually do.

Harden would be a good get for them because they should be about maximizing their window with Jimmy and Adebayo, and even if they add Harden this season, can't they still clear enough space to go after another star in 2021? I am not sure about when Adebayo's extension kicks in.

[d2o 1602]

26 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

The problem is that the Heat lost two of their best players. So yes, they were without the talent that got them to the finals, and Herro and Robinson got abused as young players without a lot of playoff experience usually do.

Harden would be a good get for them because they should be about maximizing their window with Jimmy and Adebayo, and even if they add Harden this season, can't they still clear enough space to go after another star in 2021? I am not sure about when Adebayo's extension kicks in.

No they wouldn't be able to get another star if they get/keep Harden

Edited December 13, 2020 by d2o

[BradInATX 9208]

If you can get James Harden you get James Harden. The heat are winning nothing with the roster they have and if you are unwilling to give up Tyler Herro to get James Harden then you won’t be winning much. The Heat have a fine team but Harden makes them a legit contender for the title which frankly they aren’t right now.

Not yet but they will have room to add a max star next year. Even if they whiff on Giannis and (fuck) Kawhi, I'd rather have Beal on that squad than Harden. Not saying Beal is a better player, but taking Harden on is hugely risky when your team might currently have the best blue collar, junkyard dog, shared success chemistry in the league. And Beal plus Herro plus Duncan Robinson is probably > harden.

I don't see it as being worth it. Be patient, wait a year, sign a star that's a better fit long term. Use this year to develop your guys and get some more playoff experience.

Put simply:
- chance that Harden screws up chemistry: probably 50%
- chance that they win a title with Harden: 5-10% maybe?

That's a no from me dawg

[BradInATX 9208]

Anyone see Lamelo ball play yesterday? Heard he looked pretty good

[hobbes2702 13052]

14 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Not yet but they will have room to add a max star next year. Even if they whiff on Giannis and (fuck) Kawhi, I'd rather have Beal on that squad than Harden. Not saying Beal is a better player, but taking Harden on is hugely risky when your team might currently have the best blue collar, junkyard dog, shared success chemistry in the league. And Beal plus Herro plus Duncan Robinson is probably > harden.

I don't see it as being worth it. Be patient, wait a year, sign a star that's a better fit long term. Use this year to develop your guys and get some more playoff experience.

Put simply:
- chance that Harden screws up chemistry: probably 50%
- chance that they win a title with Harden: 5-10% maybe?

That's a no from me dawg

Again you can still get one of those stars. Harden would be easily flippable in a sign and trade. And he gives you a chance to win now while Jimmy still has a window as a top end talent. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Again you can still get one of those stars. Harden would be easily flippable in a sign and trade. And he gives you a chance to win now while Jimmy still has a window as a top end talent. 

Fair. I just don't know that the chemistry issue risk is worth it. It's not always easy to put the toothpaste back in the tube. Chemistry can be a fragile thing. It may not be as easy as "Trade Harden and we'll revert back to 2020".

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, BradInATX said:

Anyone see Lamelo ball play yesterday? Heard he looked pretty good

He is like his brother.   Great court vision with get other guys easy buckets but will really struggle to score himself.   

[ztejas 43526]

51 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Again you can still get one of those stars. Harden would be easily flippable in a sign and trade. And he gives you a chance to win now while Jimmy still has a window as a top end talent. 

I'm guessing they want to see Brooklyn (KD) play before they do anything. 

[hobbes2702 13052]

24 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Fair. I just don't know that the chemistry issue risk is worth it. It's not always easy to put the toothpaste back in the tube. Chemistry can be a fragile thing. It may not be as easy as "Trade Harden and we'll revert back to 2020".

That’s fair. 

[BradInATX 9208]

That’s fair. 

I guess Riley has to make the decision on two things:
- chemistry
- is getting a star this year instead of next worth losing a couple of good young pieces?

It's a tough call. Butler seems to have no issue deferring to other guys, which is a check in the "pros" column.

Obviously from a basketball perspective Harden should be a huge gain. Lots of moving pieces. And honestly I suspect the Rockets already have better offers on the table so it's probably moot anyway. The Heat can't trade Bam for 6 months even if they wanted to, which they don't.

[hobbes2702 13052]

16 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I guess Riley has to make the decision on two things:
- chemistry
- is getting a star this year instead of next worth losing a couple of good young pieces?

It's a tough call. Butler seems to have no issue deferring to other guys, which is a check in the "pros" column.

Obviously from a basketball perspective Harden should be a huge gain. Lots of moving pieces. And honestly I suspect the Rockets already have better offers on the table so it's probably moot anyway. The Heat can't trade Bam for 6 months even if they wanted to, which they don't.

Bam should be the only guy on their roster that is untouchable 

[d2o 1602]

46 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Bam should be the only guy on their roster that is untouchable 

Yep, he makes them unique.   And Jimmy of course.   I wouldnt want to give up all 3 of Robinson, Nunn and Herro though

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

nm

Edited December 13, 2020 by youdunnf'dup

[d2o 1602]

Finally get to see what KD looks like.   WASH/BKN about to tip on NBATV

[ztejas 43526]

Durant looking like a terminator on both ends of the floor already. Picking up right where he left off.

East is in trouble.

[d2o 1602]

28 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Durant looking like a terminator on both ends of the floor already. Picking up right where he left off.

East is in trouble.

Yeah and they have a crazy deep squad too.     Not sure how they will be chemistry wise but I dont see why they would need Harden honestly

 

[ztejas 43526]

9 minutes ago, d2o said:

Yeah and they have a crazy deep squad too.     Not sure how they will be chemistry wise but I dont see why they would need Harden honestly

 

I didn't know what to expect, honestly. It took me about half a quarter of seeing Durant back to his usual powers and Kyrie doing Kyrie stuff to realize "Oh. Shit. They're loaded".

[ztejas 43526]

I know the Wiz are rolling out somewhat of a B squad but they are getting blown off the court.

[d2o 1602]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I didn't know what to expect, honestly. It took me about half a quarter of seeing Durant back to his usual powers and Kyrie doing Kyrie stuff to realize "Oh. Shit. They're loaded".

Yeah, every time someone comes in I was like "damn they got him too??"   Legit 10 deep at least.

Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Joe Harris, KD, Deandre Jordan is very tight starting group.   Then have Allen, Levert, Taurean Prince, Landry Shamet, Jeff Green and Lawalu-Cabarot off the bench

[BradInATX 9208]

Not watching but the East could be kinda fun this year, especially if Harden goes to one of the contenders.

[SilasCoade 2622]

23 minutes ago, d2o said:

Yeah, every time someone comes in I was like "damn they got him too??"   Legit 10 deep at least.

Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Joe Harris, KD, Deandre Jordan is very tight starting group.   Then have Allen, Levert, Taurean Prince, Landry Shamet, Jeff Green and Lawalu-Cabarot off the bench

Jordan starting over Allen at this point in their careers is bonkers.

[d2o 1602]

4 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Jordan starting over Allen at this point in their careers is bonkers.

I kinda agree but for what they are asking from both they are interchangeable.   Plus if they play Allen enough for him to get off they are gonna have to pay him which they wont be able to afford.

[BigOrange1 6466]

7 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Jordan starting over Allen at this point in their careers is bonkers.

absolutely agree.

[Kermit 3158]

Jordan and KD are super tight. They’re going to do everything they can to keep KD happy. 

[d2o 1602]

4 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Jordan and KD are super tight. They’re going to do everything they can to keep KD happy. 

This too.  One of the conditions of getting KD was signing DJ.

Edited December 14, 2020 by d2o

[Kermit 3158]

 

[d2o 1602]

 

[HookEm 2467]

That's a shame.