2020 NBA Offseason Thread (Abbreviated) -- Draft, Free Agency, Trades, etc

[ztejas 43526]

No way. The non-NBA player that they brought on as a PR move turned out to not be an NBA player? 

Really though, thank God. Him taking up a roster spot simply because of his name would have been disgusting. There are so many better players that never even get a chance. It's the NBA - it should 100% be a meritocracy and not some political coach's kid Little League type situation.

[Blotto 23565]

I wonder how many hours a day Kyrie spends in a rig like this

I'm not sure if it's because he spent 1 year at Duke, but that dude seriously thinks he the smartest dude in the room 100% of the time. Problem is he's kind of a dumbass.

Really good player, but not a guy I would want on my team. I suspect Durant will regret joining forces with that dude. 

[Kermit 3158]

If you have chance, this dude is doing awesome analysis of past stars. 

[Radical Larry 28659]

 

[SilasCoade 2622]

14 hours ago, ztejas said:

No way. The non-NBA player that they brought on as a PR move turned out to not be an NBA player? 

Really though, thank God. Him taking up a roster spot simply because of his name would have been disgusting. There are so many better players that never even get a chance. It's the NBA - it should 100% be a meritocracy and not some political coach's kid Little League type situation.

Ironically he has the best looking jumpshot of the three brothers.

[ztejas 43526]

10 hours ago, Blotto said:

I suspect Durant will regret joining forces with that dude. 

Hmm. I suspect he won't. LeBron certainly didn't.

I'm not sure why people think that his off the court ridiculousness translates to his actual play. I've never seen it. I think he's underrated for that reason. His ability to stay healthy is more worrisome than how crazy he might be outside of basketball, imo.

[Blotto 23565]

8 hours ago, ztejas said:

Hmm. I suspect he won't. LeBron certainly didn't.

I'm not sure why people think that his off the court ridiculousness translates to his actual play. I've never seen it. I think he's underrated for that reason. His ability to stay healthy is more worrisome than how crazy he might be outside of basketball, imo.

I generally get the feeling with Kyrie that he's a malcontent and while there's always a reason for shit, its never his fault. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he'll grow out of it at the age of 28. But I doubt it. He didn't make Boston better after he forced his way out of Cleveland, and I suspect teammates will get sick of his shit in NJ as well. He's also a self absorbed douche. The fact that he can dribble/pass/shoot the basketball is great but the NBA pays the fucking bills. 

Quote

“I pray we utilize the “fine money” for the marginalized communities in need, especially seeing where our world is presently. (I am) I am here for peace, love and greatness. So stop distracting me and my team, and appreciate the art. We move different over here. I do not talk to pawns. My attention is worth more.” 

He's a fucking clown off the court and eventually I'm guessing it bleeds onto the court. Guess we'll see.

[ztejas 43526]

1 hour ago, Blotto said:

He didn't make Boston better after he forced his way out of Cleveland,

I think his stint in Boston got messy because he couldn't stay healthy. He is also no longer the best player on the team which should do him some good. He and Durant's tag team act in their first preseason game seemed to display much more rhythm and situational awareness than Durant and Westbrook ever did. He was also hitting everything so who knows.

I mean, would you rather have a role model like Westbrook who is squeaky clean off the court but makes terrible decisions on the court, or a guy like Kyrie who is an absolute head case by day but already a proven winner?

1 hour ago, Blotto said:

He's a fucking clown off the court and eventually I'm guessing it bleeds onto the court.

Eh. It doesn't until it does. Sometimes it's a detriment to a player or their team and sometimes it isn't. Dennis Rodman has 5 titles. Zlatan Ibrahomovic has put together one of the greatest soccer careers ever. Both of those guys are out of their fucking minds. Kyrie of course already has a title. 

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

9 hours ago, Llogg said:

Ironically he has the best looking jumpshot of the three brothers.

Right.... Lamelo's jump shoot is so broken.  It's fucking ugly as shit.  He's going to end up similar to his brother unless he completely reworks his shot.  It's actually a major issue and I have no idea how scouts simply overlooked it considering Lonzo's issues.  Low launch point, top side hand position and he sort of almost swings it past his left shoulder, it's crazy. It's not impossible to have a weird jump shot and have it work if you can recreate it consistently every time, but I'd be surprised if LaMelo shot well from distance until he reworks his shot.  

[Blotto 23565]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

I think his stint in Boston got messy because he couldn't stay healthy. He is also no longer the best player on the team which should do him some good. He and Durant's tag team act in their first preseason game seemed to display much more rhythm and situational awareness than Durant and Westbrook ever did. He was also hitting everything so who knows.

I mean, would you rather have a role model like Westbrook who is squeaky clean off the court but makes terrible decisions on the court, or a guy like Kyrie who is an absolute head case by day but already a proven winner?

Eh. It doesn't until it does. Sometimes it's a detriment to a player or their team and sometimes it isn't. Dennis Rodman has 5 titles. Zlatan Ibrahomovic has put together one of the greatest soccer careers ever. Both of those guys are out of their fucking minds. Kyrie of course already has a title. 

I seem him as one of many that rode Lebrons legacy. He left for Boston to prove he could be the guy and I would judge that stint as a failure. We'll see if can put it together in Brooklyn with Durant. He wants to be acknowledged as the leader of an NBA franchise, but i doubt he is capable. I think he is too much about Kyrie, and not enough about the team. We'll see who's right over the next couple of seasons. 

As for the Westbrook/Kyrie question, can I take Lillard instead? 

[d2o 1602]

16 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Right.... Lamelo's jump shoot is so broken.  It's fucking ugly as shit.  He's going to end up similar to his brother unless he completely reworks his shot.  It's actually a major issue and I have no idea how scouts simply overlooked it considering Lonzo's issues.  Low launch point, top side hand position and he sort of almost swings it past his left shoulder, it's crazy. It's not impossible to have a weird jump shot and have it work if you can recreate it consistently every time, but I'd be surprised if LaMelo shot well from distance until he reworks his shot.  

Yep, he still kicks his feet like he did when he was a little kid and needed that extra oomph to get the ball to the rim.   He has to recreate his shot from the ground up.

[Brothahorn 10087]

42 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Right.... Lamelo's jump shoot is so broken.  It's fucking ugly as shit.  He's going to end up similar to his brother unless he completely reworks his shot.  It's actually a major issue and I have no idea how scouts simply overlooked it considering Lonzo's issues.  Low launch point, top side hand position and he sort of almost swings it past his left shoulder, it's crazy. It's not impossible to have a weird jump shot and have it work if you can recreate it consistently every time, but I'd be surprised if LaMelo shot well from distance until he reworks his shot.  

Still can't believe Charlotte or anyone else thought it was a good idea to waste a 1st round pick on him. A lottery pick at that.

[HtownHorn 14760]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Eh. It doesn't until it does. Sometimes it's a detriment to a player or their team and sometimes it isn't. Dennis Rodman has 5 titles. 

Dennis Rodman loved playing basketball. Irving appears to not care much for it, but he makes a lot of money doing it, so why not.

[ztejas 43526]

3 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Dennis Rodman loved playing basketball. Irving appears to not care much for it, but he makes a lot of money doing it, so why not.

Talking about Kyrie, not Harden

[Vic Mackey 47112]

[Radical Larry 28659]

[Underdog 28765]

1 hour ago, Brothahorn said:

Still can't believe Charlotte or anyone else thought it was a good idea to waste a 1st round pick on him. A lottery pick at that.

One of my favorites but...  MKG. 

[Wulaw Horn 19146]

So- all the Miami just sign Giannis guys next year are looking for maybe making a play for who- Bradley Beal?  I guess Leonard is up but he’d be talking a decent pay cut to go to Miami- no?  Tho is why you get who you can get when available imo. 

[Michael Knight 12990]

 

[ztejas 43526]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

So- all the Miami just sign Giannis guys next year are looking for maybe making a play for who- Bradley Beal?  I guess Leonard is up but he’d be talking a decent pay cut to go to Miami- no?  Tho is why you get who you can get when available imo. 

Are you under the impression that we're past the trade deadline?

And why would Kawhi take a pay cut going to Miami? It would be the opposite. FLA has no income tax.

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, Brothahorn said:

Still can't believe Charlotte or anyone else thought it was a good idea to waste a 1st round pick on him. A lottery pick at that.

Meh, the draft kinda sucked honestly.    All of them had warts.   He has great basketball IQ.   A 6'7" PG that can get guys easy buckets could definitely be useful.    If he can get his shot together, he'll be fine.

[d2o 1602]

10 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Are you under the impression that we're past the trade deadline?

And why would Kawhi take a pay cut going to Miami? It would be the opposite. FLA has no income tax.

It may wash out but what he would get signing with MIA would be less than what he could get from the Clips.

[BradInATX 9208]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

He is also no longer the best player on the team

There is a zero percent chance Kyrie thinks this.

[d2o 1602]

13 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

 

Good stuff.   I never saw him as the one to jump ship.    Glad that is done and we can stop talking about him going wherever. 

[ztejas 43526]

3 minutes ago, d2o said:

It may wash out but what he would get signing with MIA would be less than what he could get from the Clips.

Why is that? He would have only been in LA for 2 years.

[Wulaw Horn 19146]

3 minutes ago, d2o said:

It may wash out but what he would get signing with MIA would be less than what he could get from the Clips.

Yes. This is my point- thanks. 

[BradInATX 9208]

15 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

So- all the Miami just sign Giannis guys next year are looking for maybe making a play for who- Bradley Beal?  I guess Leonard is up but he’d be talking a decent pay cut to go to Miami- no?  Tho is why you get who you can get when available imo. 

I don't think anyone here actually thought there was much of a chance that Giannis was going to leave Milwaukee. Kawhi could be a target, although after what's coming out about his time in LA, they may not like the chemistry fit with him either.

Beal is a legitimate option. A trade is a legitimate option. Superstars seem to be coming available more often lately via trade. Just look at your Rockets. They'll find someone who wants to go down there and be part of that culture and compete for rings and be a rich young high-profile superstar on Miami Beach.

If they can keep the core of Butler, Bam, Herro, and Dragic (for a few years) together, they don't need a Giannis type. Even a Beal type is probably enough to put them in the top 3-4 teams in the league.

[Brothahorn 10087]

8 minutes ago, d2o said:

Meh, the draft kinda sucked honestly.    All of them had warts.   He has great basketball IQ.   A 6'7" PG that can get guys easy buckets could definitely be useful.    If he can get his shot together, he'll be fine.

I hear you. But I don't see it based on his handful of games in Europe and then the Aussie NBA. Not sure why everyone keeps rating him so high. Late first round or second, but not lottery pick. Even if the other options had warts too. Jordan learned nothing from Kwame Brown.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

Giannis staying in Milwaukee is going to have a domino effect. Lots of teams are going to have cap space and the next tier guys are going to get paid. Or teams are going to re-up with their current guys at much bigger clips. Going to be interesting to see what Toronto, Miami and Dallas do now. They were all angling for him. I think there are something like 10 teams with close to a max slot available, or could create a max slot. And I think the Spurs, Knicks, Bulls and Thunder have enough for close to two max slots. 

[Wulaw Horn 19146]

45 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Why is that? He would have only been in LA for 2 years.

Extra year and a higher raise in between years I think. 

[d2o 1602]

24 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

I hear you. But I don't see it based on his handful of games in Europe and then the Aussie NBA. Not sure why everyone keeps rating him so high. Late first round or second, but not lottery pick. Even if the other options had warts too. Jordan learned nothing from Kwame Brown.

I was HIGHLY skeptical of him honestly.   He seemed like an asshole and he came as a package with his dad so I wanted no parts of him on my team.     He may bust but he was never gonna go way down where you are saying.    EVERY mock had him at minimum top 3.   Not saying they cant all be wrong but he was never making it past 5

[d2o 1602]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Why is that? He would have only been in LA for 2 years.

Actually, you are correct.    Clips wont have Bird rights on him after two yrs.   They would have early Bird rights.    Need to do some more reading to see what advantage that would give them, if any.   He could go 4/196 w/Clips if he opts out next summer.    He could go full 5 yr supermax equivalent if he opts out after yr 3 as he would have 10 yrs in and qualify for the full 35% of the cap.

Edited December 15, 2020 by d2o

[ztejas 43526]

1 minute ago, d2o said:

Actually, you are correct.    Clips wont have Bird rights on him after two yrs.

Lol. I'm not super in the know when it comes to all of that contract stuff but what Wulaw said just didn't seem right off the top of my head.

[Drew 2512]

I mean even Giannis being locked down does nothing but silence the questions about him staying.  IF they choke again, he could easily force his way out if not this offseason the next one.  They'll just be able to get more for him now.

This is actually a good thing for my Mavs...allows them to move on.  If something comes available by the Trade Deadline or next offseason, they can jump on it.  Plus they'll be able to sign Josh Richardson who so far looks like a perfect fit next to Luka and might just develop in the #3 they've been looking for anyways.

[d2o 1602]

7 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Lol. I'm not super in the know when it comes to all of that contract stuff but what Wulaw said just didn't seem right off the top of my head.

Clips would still be able to offer him more as they could do 8% raises annually with early Bird rights vs 5% annually for another team but that would definitely wash out (and then some) in the difference between CA and FL taxes

• A team may re-sign its early qualifying veteran free agent using the Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agent Exception (i.e., by using its “Early Bird” rights). That player:
• (i) may get a salary up to the greater of (a) 175% of the player’s salary in the last season of the prior contract, or (b) 105% of the average player salary for the prior season;
• (ii) may have his compensation increase (or decrease) each season by 8% (instead of 5%); and
• (iii) must have a contract covering at least 2 years, not including any option year (and 4 years is the max length of the contract).

https://cbabreakdown.com/salary-cap-exceptions

Edited December 15, 2020 by d2o

[d2o 1602]

1 minute ago, Drew said:

I mean even Giannis being locked down does nothing but silence the questions about him staying.  IF they choke again, he could easily force his way out if not this offseason the next one.  They'll just be able to get more for him now.

This is actually a good thing for my Mavs...allows them to move on.  If something comes available by the Trade Deadline or next offseason, they can jump on it.  Plus they'll be able to sign Josh Richardson who so far looks like a perfect fit next to Luka and might just develop in the #3 they've been looking for anyways.

Yeah it sucks though.   Dude aint even signed the deal yet to stay and there was at least one person talking about him forcing his way out.

[d2o 1602]

37 minutes ago, d2o said:

I was HIGHLY skeptical of him honestly.   He seemed like an asshole and he came as a package with his dad so I wanted no parts of him on my team.     He may bust but he was never gonna go way down where you are saying.    EVERY mock had him at minimum top 3.   Not saying they cant all be wrong but he was never making it past 5

There is also this:

 

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

Here are the actual ROY odds and some discussion on it:

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/rookie-of-the-year-odds

2020-21 NBA Rookie Of The Year Award Odds

Player	Odds
LaMelo Ball	+400
Obi Toppin	+425
Anthony Edwards	+450
James Wiseman	+600
Killian Hayes	+800
Deni Avdija	+1500
Tyrese Haliburton	+1500
Isaac Okoro	+2000
Onyeka Okongwu	+2500
Cole Anthony	+2500
Kira Lewis Jr.	+3300
Patrick Williams	+3300
RJ Hampton	+5000
Aleksej Pokusevski	+5000
Immanuel Quickley	+5000
Devin Vassell	+5000
Precious Achiuwa	+6000
Malachi Flynn	+6000
Josh Green	+6000
Tyrese Maxey	+6000
Jalen Smith	+6000

Odds as of December 8 at Bovada

Why LaMelo Ball Is The ROY Favorite

LaMelo Ball deserves to be the early favorite for the NBA Rookie of the Year odds mainly based on a combination of opportunity and ability. The six-foot-seven guard is a playmaker who’s joining a Hornets squad that is devoid of high-end talent and desperate for an identity.

In this offense, Ball will be given the green light to shoot in every game. While he’ll have to share a backcourt with Terry Rozier and Devonte’ Graham, the good news is all three are pretty good at playing off the ball. If he can average 17 points and eight assists a night while shooting over 35 percent from behind the arc, he could nail this award down by the midway point of the season.

That being said, there’s a reason Obi Toppin and Anthony Edwards are right behind him. Toppin, slotting into a Knicks roster that is desperate for impact players in the frontcourt, will likely be given the green light to fire away from the opening game onward. For Edwards, Minnesota has the pieces in place now to contend in the Western Conference and his skill set fits right in with the T-Wolves’ needs.

Having a strong shot-maker on the wing is something the ‘Wolves have been craving ever since they traded for Andrew Wiggins. The Wiggins experiment obviously blew up in their face but if Edwards plays his role and hits shots and Minnesota makes the playoffs, he’ll be one of the main reasons for the Timberwolves’ success.

ROY Long-Shot Pick To Consider

The one dark horse that bettors need to consider in NBA Rookie of the Year odds is Cole Anthony of the Orlando Magic. Anthony was picked 14th overall and on the surface, he may seem like a long shot for NBA Rookie of the Year at +2500. Considering he opened at +6000, some early ROY bettors shared my initial thoughts.

Much like Ball and Edwards (and NBA rookie of the year odds in general), it’s all about talent and opportunity, and Anthony has both. The freshman point guard out of North Carolina was a top-five recruit coming out of high school and has all the offensive gifts to make a splash with the Magic.

Another factor is the Magic’s backcourt depth, which is horrible on paper. Markelle Fultz, Evan Fournier and Michael Carter-Williams might be the worst guard rotation in the NBA and only Fournier could be legitimately counted on to hit an outside shot. The Magic need a strong infusion of talent and Anthony fits the bill to be a microwave scorer off the bench or lead them as a combo guard and hit shots from behind the arc. At +2500, these odds are too good to pass up.

[Michael Knight 12990]

3 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Here are the actual ROY odds and some discussion on it:

https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/rookie-of-the-year-odds

2020-21 NBA Rookie Of The Year Award Odds

Player	Odds
LaMelo Ball	+400
Obi Toppin	+425
Anthony Edwards	+450
James Wiseman	+600
Killian Hayes	+800
Deni Avdija	+1500
Tyrese Haliburton	+1500
Isaac Okoro	+2000
Onyeka Okongwu	+2500
Cole Anthony	+2500
Kira Lewis Jr.	+3300
Patrick Williams	+3300
RJ Hampton	+5000
Aleksej Pokusevski	+5000
Immanuel Quickley	+5000
Devin Vassell	+5000
Precious Achiuwa	+6000
Malachi Flynn	+6000
Josh Green	+6000
Tyrese Maxey	+6000
Jalen Smith	+6000

Odds as of December 8 at Bovada

Why LaMelo Ball Is The ROY Favorite

LaMelo Ball deserves to be the early favorite for the NBA Rookie of the Year odds mainly based on a combination of opportunity and ability. The six-foot-seven guard is a playmaker who’s joining a Hornets squad that is devoid of high-end talent and desperate for an identity.

In this offense, Ball will be given the green light to shoot in every game. While he’ll have to share a backcourt with Terry Rozier and Devonte’ Graham, the good news is all three are pretty good at playing off the ball. If he can average 17 points and eight assists a night while shooting over 35 percent from behind the arc, he could nail this award down by the midway point of the season.

That being said, there’s a reason Obi Toppin and Anthony Edwards are right behind him. Toppin, slotting into a Knicks roster that is desperate for impact players in the frontcourt, will likely be given the green light to fire away from the opening game onward. For Edwards, Minnesota has the pieces in place now to contend in the Western Conference and his skill set fits right in with the T-Wolves’ needs.

Having a strong shot-maker on the wing is something the ‘Wolves have been craving ever since they traded for Andrew Wiggins. The Wiggins experiment obviously blew up in their face but if Edwards plays his role and hits shots and Minnesota makes the playoffs, he’ll be one of the main reasons for the Timberwolves’ success.

ROY Long-Shot Pick To Consider

The one dark horse that bettors need to consider in NBA Rookie of the Year odds is Cole Anthony of the Orlando Magic. Anthony was picked 14th overall and on the surface, he may seem like a long shot for NBA Rookie of the Year at +2500. Considering he opened at +6000, some early ROY bettors shared my initial thoughts.

Much like Ball and Edwards (and NBA rookie of the year odds in general), it’s all about talent and opportunity, and Anthony has both. The freshman point guard out of North Carolina was a top-five recruit coming out of high school and has all the offensive gifts to make a splash with the Magic.

Another factor is the Magic’s backcourt depth, which is horrible on paper. Markelle Fultz, Evan Fournier and Michael Carter-Williams might be the worst guard rotation in the NBA and only Fournier could be legitimately counted on to hit an outside shot. The Magic need a strong infusion of talent and Anthony fits the bill to be a microwave scorer off the bench or lead them as a combo guard and hit shots from behind the arc. At +2500, these odds are too good to pass up.

Devin Vassell is the obvious pick

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

3 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Devin Vassell is the obvious pick

[ztejas 43526]

3 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Devin Vassell is the obvious pick

Yeah. They're all going to look like fools when Vassell goes 18/8/5 and 2 steals and we sweep the Clippers in the first round. 

[Wulaw Horn 19146]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Lol. I'm not super in the know when it comes to all of that contract stuff but what Wulaw said just didn't seem right off the top of my head.

I swear every time I have it down it seems like the rules move. I thought the full Bird with the extra contract came after 2. Guess not. In theory he’s taking a pay cut to sign with Miami over playing out the option with the clips and signing his full on max-est of the max I think but that only matters if he plays out his option. 
he’s from LA. He worked hard to get there. I don’t think he’s really likely to bounce- but who knows. I’d put it at less than 20% odds that he leaves there. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[Wulaw Horn 19146]

2 hours ago, d2o said:

Clips would still be able to offer him more as they could do 8% raises annually with early Bird rights vs 5% annually for another team but that would definitely wash out (and then some) in the difference between CA and FL taxes

• A team may re-sign its early qualifying veteran free agent using the Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agent Exception (i.e., by using its “Early Bird” rights). That player:
• (i) may get a salary up to the greater of (a) 175% of the player’s salary in the last season of the prior contract, or (b) 105% of the average player salary for the prior season;
• (ii) may have his compensation increase (or decrease) each season by 8% (instead of 5%); and
• (iii) must have a contract covering at least 2 years, not including any option year (and 4 years is the max length of the contract).

https://cbabreakdown.com/salary-cap-exceptions

I did say higher annual raises. So I got it half right. 
the next time someone takes a discount to sign in a no tax state will be the first. I know. I’m an astros fan. We talk about it all the time. It never happens. 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[BradInATX 9208]

This feels like a wide open ROY season, especially with the insane off-season. The shooters are going to have less time to adjust. I could see Ball winning it with double digit assist averaged and otherwise pedestrian numbers. Or a big man, besides Wiseman who I doubt will win, so I don't know who that'd be
I'd prob take even money on a field bet against the top 4-5 guys.

[cmontexas 3275]

Halliburton will fill the stat sheets good value at 15-1

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

 

Im happy we get wolf man Ricky and not pretty boy Ricky like he was when he left

[ztejas 43526]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Im happy we get wolf man Ricky and not pretty boy Ricky like he was when he left

Implying he isn't still gorgeous.

No homo. 

NTTAWWT. 

[d2o 1602]

I hope this is just a bad angle or a doctored pic.   If not, this isnt a good sign.    Shawn Kemp post-strike vibes.

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

34 minutes ago, d2o said:

I hope this is just a bad angle or a doctored pic.   If not, this isnt a good sign.    Shawn Kemp post-strike vibes.

 

I watched the game. That pic isn't doctored. And there is no bad angle because my man has no angles anymore. 

[SilasCoade 2622]

Wasn't he strung out skinny in a pic just a few months ago?