RACIST has name on UT advertising school?

[Born Burnt 6171]

After the changes UT made this summer and with the current debate over "The Eyes of Texas," why has the university not announced it is removing this guy's name from the advertising school? Do corporations have higher standards than the university? Friends in the industry say this is the talk of the industry nationwide. How embarrassing:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/14/business/media/richards-group-motel-6.html

Then, as this Texas Monthly article points out, he "doubled down" on his comment a few days later:

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/stan-richards-richards-group-racial-remarks/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Web+Social&utm_content=StanRichardsRacialRemarks

At the very least, this guy is obviously really bad at PR. That alone should disqualify him from influencing others looking to enter the industry.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Born Burnt

[Armybrat 40761]

Some of us old guys oughta stfu and step out of the way.

[Guest Lobo]

This is strange timing by these two reporting outlets.  The Moody College is about to make a massive announcement on Monday afternoon at 2:00p regarding a huge financial development at the College (unrelated to Stan, but still part of the overall narrative).  This is all shit-tastic timing.  

I guess, I would only suggest to Dean Jay, when accepting gifts from anybody Southerners in their 80's, maybe just do some cursory background research on them before you get into bed.  HEB, I'll give 'em credit, were the first to smell something rotten in Denmark with his agency.  Chick-Fil-A, to their "un"-credit, basically doubled down and said, "Fuck Yeah, separate but equal drive-thru lines!"  And of course the A&M/Blue Bell contingency is loving this PR disaster at UT right now.  

[TwiceHorn 31361]

Settle down, Beavis.

First off, it just happened this week.

Second of all, he said "too black."  That's racially insensitive but not otherwise grossly racist.  If you don't think race, ethnicity, and culture are things that are major considerations in advertising, then you are seriously naive. That may be a regrettable aspect of advertising and marketing, but it is an absolute reality.

In the context of advertising, "too black," while perhaps infelicitously phrased, reflects no judgment on black people, its a simple analytical opinion, like "too male" for a bra ad, or "too female" for shaving cream.  

He could have said "too ethnic," maybe, but that would have been imprecise.  Would you be outraged by "this ad campaign is directed to an African-American demographic whereas our research says that your existing customer base is mostly white."

Because it's saying the same damn thing, with a lot more words.

This strikes me, ultimately, as much ado about very little.  And cancel culture run amok.

The far more interesting aspect of this is that apparently The Richards Group had research indicating that Motel 6's customer base was largely white supremacist.  I think that revelation more than anything made Motel 6 feel they had to fire them.

Edited October 18, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Born Burnt 6171]

6 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Chick-Fil-A, to their "un"-credit, basically doubled down and said, "Fuck Yeah, separate but equal drive-thru lines!" 

I read that ChickfilA fired the company a few years ago.

[Born Burnt 6171]

10 minutes ago, Lobo said:

This is strange timing by these two reporting outlets.  The Moody College is about to make a massive announcement on Monday afternoon at 2:00p regarding a huge financial development at the College (unrelated to Stan, but still part of the overall narrative).  This is all shit-tastic timing.  

I guess, I would only suggest to Dean Jay, when accepting gifts from anybody Southerners in their 80's, maybe just do some cursory background research on them before you get into bed.  HEB, I'll give 'em credit, were the first to smell something rotten in Denmark with his agency.  Chick-Fil-A, to their "un"-credit, basically doubled down and said, "Fuck Yeah, separate but equal drive-thru lines!"  And of course the A&M/Blue Bell contingency is loving this PR disaster at UT right now.  

Well, I'm obviously not as knowledgeable about marketing and advertising as you are. But I do know that if you're not good at representing your own company properly in today's climate, you probably shouldn't be advising other companies (or students) on how to do it.

[TwiceHorn 31361]

1 minute ago, Born Burnt said:

Well, I'm obviously not as knowledgeable about marketing and advertising as you are. But I do know that if you're not good at representing your own company properly in today's climate, you probably shouldn't be advising other companies (or students) on how to do it.

He wasn't representing his company when he said "too black." It was an internal comment not for public consumption.   To some extent, I suppose you are always representing your company, but still.

You don't make a commercial for Jheri Curl products full of white people, and if you do, you should expect it to be called "too white."

 

[Guest Lobo]

9 minutes ago, Born Burnt said:

I read that ChickfilA fired the company a few years ago.

Gotcha, I just did a cursory google and didn't pay attention to dates.  Was it a normal "agency firing", where they give notice and then just cut the contract due to poor performance or to renegotiate fee structure...or was it just, "Yeah, that dude's a fucking racist and we sell Chicken...in the South...not a good look for us."  

Some of the shit this Richards guy said, it was like he was trying to publish an alternate Whites-Only version of the Green Book.  

And I am by no means well versed on the advertising world.  The Moody College has just been having its 15 minutes of fame the last few years with the Moody and Belo major gifts, the new buildings/skywalk, Wooderson as a professor, really diving into social media and politics with the Strauss Project (among many others), and now this shitshow.  It was always a prevalent CSU on campus, but it's really been in the spotlight lately (mostly for good)...but this is a fucking shitshow given the sensitive climate on campus as it is right now.  

Anyway, we'll see what Jay says about it tomorrow at 2:00p.  

[Born Burnt 6171]

I assume the guy will write another big check to the school to keep his name on it. If that's the case, I wonder if the alumni can raise money and give it to the school to keep "The Eyes of Texas"?

[Born Burnt 6171]

13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

You don't make a commercial for Jheri Curl products full of white people, and if you do, you should expect it to be called "too white."

 

So black people don't stay at Motel 6?

[TwiceHorn 31361]

20 minutes ago, Born Burnt said:

I assume the guy will write another big check to the school to keep his name on it. If that's the case, I wonder if the alumni can raise money and give it to the school to keep "The Eyes of Texas"?

Why would you assume that?

I assume that his name will be removed summarily.  This isn't something the University decides to do in a week.

It would be a shame, in my opinion, if he were completely disassociated with the school.  He's an advertising titan, and this is just one more thing he can advise about.

And, no I don't think BMD can pay to keep The Eyes.  They can, and apparently are, threatening to withhold donations if the tradition is not maintained at least partially. Different side of the same coin.  

Edited October 18, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31361]

17 minutes ago, Born Burnt said:

So black people don't stay at Motel 6?

I have no idea.  The initial reporting of the incident indicated that a large portion of Motel 6s customer base was white supremacist.

I don't think it is yet incumbent on advertising agencies to promote social justice through their work if the client doesn't want them to.  As mentioned above, I think the embarrassment of a) having it revealed that a segment of their base is white supremacist and b) that they might wish to cater to that base by avoiding advertising that is "too black," is why they pulled the plug.

Somewhere in the background of this is a discussion with Motel 6 management:

TRG:  65% of your customer base voted for Trump and are known to be ardent supporters still and are identified as white supremacists.

M6:  Really? Shit.  I guess we can't afford to lose them, so scratch any "we are the world" campaigns please.

* * * 90 days later

Stan Richards:  This campaign is too black (unstated "our client has directed us not to alienate the racist segment of their customer base").

I imagine a lot of internal discussion at ad agencies would be mortifying to their clients if made public. E.g.  "your customers are stupid as fuck, therefore, this commercial is stupid as fuck."

Edited October 18, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[immortal13 4059]

Waiting to hear what Lebron has to say before I make an assessment 

[cmontexas 3262]

Huey's too black sounding for me

[ztejas 43383]

What does Chris Brown think of this?

[RPM 26268]

1 hour ago, Armybrat said:

Some of us old guys oughta stfu and step out of the way.

[leaf 681]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

What does Chris Brown think of this.

 

[RDCanecutter 26348]

36 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

You don't make a commercial for Jheri Curl products full of white people, and if you do, you should expect it to be called "too white."

CSB: a while back a local HBCU wanted to boost their enrollment, and I guess they figured they had all the black kids they were going to get, so they put out a commercial full of white people, I mean it was like a lutfisk festival in rural Norway type of white, where some white kid proudly announces to his parents (played by two white professors, who, uh, probably won't ever have kids) his new choice at the HBCU, but you wouldn't know it was an HBCU because all the classes were solid white.

I mean, they already did have some white students, in a script-flip, almost always athletes, but they made the black students invisible./CSB

tldr: Ad agencies are about as mentally deep as a dollar box of chocolate.

[immortal13 4059]

5 minutes ago, Born Burnt said:

So black people don't stay at Motel 6?

Too well lit

[Sawbonz 27469]

[TwiceHorn 31361]

8 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

CSB: a while back a local HBCU wanted to boost their enrollment, and I guess they figured they had all the black kids they were going to get, so they put out a commercial full of white people, I mean it was like a lutfisk festival in rural Norway type of white, where some white kid proudly announces to his parents (played by two white professors, who, uh, probably won't ever have kids) his new choice at the HBCU, but you wouldn't know it was an HBCU because all the classes were solid white.

I mean, they already did have some white students, in a script-flip, almost always athletes, but they made the black students invisible./CSB

tldr: Ad agencies are about as mentally deep as a dollar box of chocolate.

Well, ad agencies, like a lot of businesses, do their clients' bidding.  Sometimes agencies advise clients not to do things and sometimes agencies are told to do it anyway.

[DaggerHorns 3064]

C’mon people...focus.

We can’t accomplish anything if we don’t have more social media outrage.

[Guest Lobo]

1 hour ago, Born Burnt said:

So black people don't stay at Motel 6?

Neither do decent white people.  They got their "Woke-Up" call from the front desk.

(ba-da-dum) 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Lobo

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

25 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

A very special episode of The Golden Girls?

[TwiceHorn 31361]

31 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Too white and too old!

A two-fer in the outrage olympics.  Good thing I don't have any schools named after me, or virtue-signaling clients 

[J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. 1084]

1 hour ago, RDCanecutter said:

CSB: a while back a local HBCU wanted to boost their enrollment, and I guess they figured they had all the black kids they were going to get, so they put out a commercial full of white people, I mean it was like a lutfisk festival in rural Norway type of white, where some white kid proudly announces to his parents (played by two white professors, who, uh, probably won't ever have kids) his new choice at the HBCU, but you wouldn't know it was an HBCU because all the classes were solid white.

I mean, they already did have some white students, in a script-flip, almost always athletes, but they made the black students invisible./CSB

tldr: Ad agencies are about as mentally deep as a dollar box of chocolate.

I remember a few years ago, Tennessee State in Nashville made a conscious decision to become an integrated school, especially for the local commuter population.  I wonder how that worked out?

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

It’s interesting that when I read Richard’s comments the first time, I read them as both racist and slamming his client for being racist, or at least courting racist business.  He basically said Motel 6 was the motel of choice for Nazis. 

So that’s stupid, racist and crazy on at least two levels.  Kind of amazing he could pull that off in one sentence. 

[Born Burnt 6171]

I searched to see if this was a one-time flub for the advertising agency, but apparently they got into trouble a few years back for racially insensitive commercials for...wait for it...Summer's Eve. The agency owner defended the work at first.

https://www.odwyerpr.com/blog/index.php?/archives/3175-summers-eve-misses-chance-spin-scandal.html

I found them here:

 

[TwiceHorn 31361]

Racial sensitivity is down the list on the problems with that ad.

It's also mentioned in the TM article.

You seem not to get that pretty much all advertising is explicitly ____________-ist.  It's an attempt to "curry favor" with favored demographics by appealing to them however possible.  Often on the basest instincts.

Sometimes advertising is explicitly SJW.  Pretty often of late, in fact.

That one clearly is a ham-handed attempt to be pro-female and multicultural.  There apparently are white and hispanic variations, also.

Edited October 18, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Deej 76643]

4 hours ago, Born Burnt said:

So black people don't stay at Motel 6?

They do at the Rundberg and I-35 location. 

[Born Burnt 6171]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

They do at the Rundberg and I-35 location. 

Someone should tell Mr. Richards.

[Bevo 13534]

White supremacist is not a major customer base of Motel 6. I tried looking up numbers but through the first couple pages of a google search, I couldn't find them. I did see that the Anti-defamation League said there were 3,000 KKK members and a NYT article said there were over 1,000 white supremacist groups fueled by the presidency of Trump. In any case, there are 1,400 Motel 6 in the US. I don't think I have ever stayed in one but I see them off the freeway on drives throughout the country. I would guess that their major customer base includes truckers and people going on long drives across the country. That those groups are primarily white is unsurprising, but to claim that white middle class is "White Supremacist" is a bridge too far.

[Armybrat 40761]

Almost as far as the Bridge at Toko-Ri.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Armybrat

[cmontexas 3262]

White supremacists did pretty much boycott the NBA because Lebrons politics were too black. I know nobody thinks of white supremacists as the NBA target audience, but they will proudly point to the NBA's lower ratings this year as evidence that they will loudly and aggressively boycott a product if their political sensibilities are not catered to.

[Pancho 44593]

6 hours ago, Born Burnt said:

So black people don't stay at Motel 6?

[Guest Lobo]

Is it because the beds are too close to the pool and y'all sleepwalk?   

Edited October 18, 2020 by Lobo

[Bevo 13534]

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

Is it because the beds are too close to the pool and y'all sleepwalk?   

Hey, I know you are left leaning, but that doesn't give you a pass.

[Guest Lobo]

Oh, I ain't left-leaning sweetheart.  And I ain't looking for a pass.  

Texas needs two things right now---a laugh and people of color (like myself and Pancho---not that I put myself on his level) doing real work to curb real problems. 

Join me on my zoom Thursday if you have time.  We've got an exciting panel with deadly serious action items on the back end.  I think you'll be pleased.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Lobo

[Reagan1k 3017]

I'm having a hard time understanding the outrage and fallout with this one, especially in the context of all the other things we should certainly be addressing.

Advertising by its very nature is dependent upon identifying and targeting "types of people".  

I see what he said, and understand that anytime an old white guy says "black" the microscope comes out, but what I "hear" in the words is "Hey, Motel 6 caters to rural rednecks and this might be focusing too much on African Americans."  

If you run that thought through an old white guy's brain (especially one who's been watching the news and has the white supremacy lingo bouncing around in his mind), it comes out of his mouth as "this commercial is too black to appeal to Motel 6's white supremacist clientele."

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd be one to tap the brakes here before I storm the gates with pitchforks.  

Without further context, this seems to be a poor choice of words for use in 2020, but might not merit tarnishing an entire career.

 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13422]

It sounds like the guy made a racial statement but not necessarily racist. It's not exactly the same. It's 100% weird that he aligned Motel 6 with white supremacy but perhaps just a wrong phrase. i can understand why those businesses would fire his company and/or refuse to work with them again. At least make that announcement publicly. They have to ensure there is zero connection or desire to be tied to white supremacy.

However without knowing more about his guy, I would give him a break. He apologized. We should be willing to accept true apologies more often. I understand that we all want to be quick to judge and cancel racists but we should account for mistakes or poorly chosen words.  We also need to always give an 87 year old a certain amount of slack especially if they appear open to learning from mistakes.

Or maybe this guy is a KKK member, I don't know. However I would give him a break if this isn't normal behavior for him.

[Ghost of LL 15504]

22 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

It’s interesting that when I read Richard’s comments the first time, I read them as both racist and slamming his client for being racist, or at least courting racist business.  He basically said Motel 6 was the motel of choice for Nazis. 

So that’s stupid, racist and crazy on at least two levels.  Kind of amazing he could pull that off in one sentence. 

That's my take-away from this.  He managed both to insult Blacks and align his client with white supremacy in a single sentence.  It really is a remarkable accomplishment.

We can parse the comment all day and argue about whether it was racist, racialist, or just stupid.  But who cares?  Take the comment out of a vacuum, and recognize that Stan Richards is the owner of the agency and one of the most powerful people in advertising in this part of the world.  Doesn't it indicate some lack of racial awareness?  I mean, if you were a Black person straight out of UT and looking for your first job in advertising, how would you feel right now about your chances of getting a job at The Richards Group?

Regardless--I'm not losing any sleep over this.  Anybody who has dealt with him knows that Stan Richards is a complete asshole.  And the fact that he is a complete asshole is reflected in the leak of his comments and how fast the long knives came out once it became public.

[Born Burnt 6171]

2 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

I'm having a hard time understanding the outrage and fallout with this one, especially in the context of all the other things we should certainly be addressing.

Advertising by its very nature is dependent upon identifying and targeting "types of people".  

I see what he said, and understand that anytime an old white guy says "black" the microscope comes out, but what I "hear" in the words is "Hey, Motel 6 caters to rural rednecks and this might be focusing too much on African Americans."  

If you run that thought through an old white guy's brain (especially one who's been watching the news and has the white supremacy lingo bouncing around in his mind), it comes out of his mouth as "this commercial is too black to appeal to Motel 6's white supremacist clientele."

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd be one to tap the brakes here before I storm the gates with pitchforks.  

Without further context, this seems to be a poor choice of words for use in 2020, but might not merit tarnishing an entire career.

 

 

I'm not saying this guy should have been made to resign or even lost all those clients. I"m not concerned with that. My only reason for bringing this up is wondering whether we have the right person representing the University of Texas. And since it seems every name on a building on campus is under scrutiny these days, his should be as well.

Since originally posting and reading people's responses I've done some more research and talked further with people in the industry. A couple of interesting points have come up:

The original story that broke in the trade publication Ad Age says the meeting was "to review an idea for an ad campaign that celebrated Black artists." Perhaps that is what upset people in the meeting? It doesn't appear to have been an advertisement just aimed at white people.

Also, a couple of people have told me that the company has a decades-long reputation of being misogynistic. They said many in the industry will tell you this.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

Know a guy who works there.  Been a rough week.  Richards' comments may kill all the creatives' jobs.

[TwiceHorn 31361]

I find it somewhat interesting that NYT leads with calling them ""racist remarks," without any subtlety or nuance whatsoever.

It really does seem that any time an older, richer white person utters the word "black," they're kind of in for a shitstorm unless it is a purely descriptive statement, e.g. "he is a black man."

[BabaYaga 15238]

On 10/18/2020 at 9:12 AM, TwiceHorn said:

Settle down, Beavis.

First off, it just happened this week.

Second of all, he said "too black."  That's racially insensitive but not otherwise grossly racist.  If you don't think race, ethnicity, and culture are things that are major considerations in advertising, then you are seriously naive. That may be a regrettable aspect of advertising and marketing, but it is an absolute reality.

In the context of advertising, "too black," while perhaps infelicitously phrased, reflects no judgment on black people, its a simple analytical opinion, like "too male" for a bra ad, or "too female" for shaving cream.  

He could have said "too ethnic," maybe, but that would have been imprecise.  Would you be outraged by "this ad campaign is directed to an African-American demographic whereas our research says that your existing customer base is mostly white."

Because it's saying the same damn thing, with a lot more words.

This strikes me, ultimately, as much ado about very little.  And cancel culture run amok.

The far more interesting aspect of this is that apparently The Richards Group had research indicating that Motel 6's customer base was largely white supremacist.  I think that revelation more than anything made Motel 6 feel they had to fire them.

Yep, I also think it was a setup and internal play to get the old guy out of there.  

 

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I find it somewhat interesting that NYT leads with calling them ""racist remarks," without any subtlety or nuance whatsoever.

You new to the current agenda and lack of any critical discussion what so ever from the NYT?  They are a shell of their former selves.  They are more activist that journalist now.  Bereft of nuance and any semblance of intellectual honesty.  

[hayden_horn 11362]

2 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

That's my take-away from this.  He managed both to insult Blacks and align his client with white supremacy in a single sentence.  It really is a remarkable accomplishment.

We can parse the comment all day and argue about whether it was racist, racialist, or just stupid.  But who cares?  Take the comment out of a vacuum, and recognize that Stan Richards is the owner of the agency and one of the most powerful people in advertising in this part of the world.  Doesn't it indicate some lack of racial awareness?  I mean, if you were a Black person straight out of UT and looking for your first job in advertising, how would you feel right now about your chances of getting a job at The Richards Group?

Regardless--I'm not losing any sleep over this.  Anybody who has dealt with him knows that Stan Richards is a complete asshole.  And the fact that he is a complete asshole is reflected in the leak of his comments and how fast the long knives came out once it became public.

yeah, honestly for me, it's a moment of "oh, old white dude makes racially insensitive comment, film at 11" type of moment.

ad agencies target demographics all the time. mcdonald's famously went after black folks with their ads. 

i'm just sort of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ about the whole thing.

[Reagan1k 3017]

33 minutes ago, Born Burnt said:

I'm not saying this guy should have been made to resign or even lost all those clients. I"m not concerned with that. My only reason for bringing this up is wondering whether we have the right person representing the University of Texas. And since it seems every name on a building on campus is under scrutiny these days, his should be as well.

Since originally posting and reading people's responses I've done some more research and talked further with people in the industry. A couple of interesting points have come up:

The original story that broke in the trade publication Ad Age says the meeting was "to review an idea for an ad campaign that celebrated Black artists." Perhaps that is what upset people in the meeting? It doesn't appear to have been an advertisement just aimed at white people.

Also, a couple of people have told me that the company has a decades-long reputation of being misogynistic. They said many in the industry will tell you this.

Understood.  My comment was based more on the headline in the OP that started with "RACIST" and stated that it was embarrassing for the University.

In cases where something is not overt, but instead fairly nuanced, I believe that context does matter and must be considered before passing judgement.

The question of whether or not the the University should reconsider gifts and/or naming rights is valid.  As is viewing the comments in context instead of in a vacuum.

 

[jkates 316]

Meh. It's a pretty big stretch to take what is being reported and turn it into a big deal. 

[DDD Dad 14272]

On 10/18/2020 at 11:40 AM, Born Burnt said:

So black people don't stay at Motel 6?

No they stay at McDowell's

[Reagan1k 3017]

Now, I will concede that if Tom Herman said this, it is cause for termination and voids his contract's buy-out provision.