Jump to content

Astros 2020-21 offseason- can't be any worse than last year, right? RIGHT?

Wulaw Horn

By Wulaw Horn
in Baseball

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Guadaloopy
Guadaloopy

At this point, that’s a decent trade.  

Macklemore
Macklemore

The double standard when it comes to the treatment of the Astros and the Red Sox by the media is infuriating. If we rehired Hinch, assholes like Jeff Passan, Jon Heyman and Buster Olney would be going

Scraps
Scraps

After last year i would pay Correa whatever the fuck he wants for 12 years i don't give a fuck. He is the heart of the team and I am down with him 4 life. I don't even care if he leaves next season

Posted Images

HillaryFan420

HillaryFan420 121

Posted
Posted
LMJ is a relief pitcher. He just doesn't know it yet.

This obviously isn’t true as he’s demonstrated how effective he can be as a starter. He’s also not the same pitcher now as he was in 2015-2017 when he was essentially a two pitch pitcher with only one of those being a plus offering. He has shown he can be effective with his change and now with his new cutter, so he should be less reliant on his power curve.

Having to throw his power curve so often is likely what made it so hard for him to throw many innings in a given season as those pitches place a lot of stress on the body, particularly the elbow.
  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HillaryFan420

HillaryFan420 121

Posted
Posted
LMJ is a relief pitcher. He just doesn't know it yet.

This obviously isn’t true as he’s demonstrated how effective he can be as a starter. He’s also not the same pitcher now as he was in 2015-2017 when he was essentially a two pitch pitcher with only one of those being a plus offering. He has shown he can be effective with his change and now with his new cutter, so he should be less reliant on his power curve.

Having to throw his power curve so often is likely what made it so hard for him to throw many innings in a given season as those pitches place a lot of stress on the body, particularly the elbow.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14,683

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HillaryFan420 said:

It’s humorous there is so much disdain for this guy when he pitched with a busted arm in 2018 to try to help this team win.

I don't understand the dislike for Lance either. He's always been a huge Houston guy in interviews and does a lot of good in the community. Dude is also lights out in the playoffs, as his 3.28 era attests, along with a 2.8 BB9 and a 10.2 SO9, both marks bettering his career regular season output.

  • Hook 'Em 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guadaloopy

Guadaloopy 10,971

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Snake Diggity said:

Josh James out 6-8 months with hip surgery.  Hopefully he comes back strong.  Still a high ceiling reliever, but before the surgery only projected to be the 12th or 13th pitcher on the roster.

Wonder if it was something that had been bothering all season or just an injury from that last appearance.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, HillaryFan420 said:

It’s humorous there is so much disdain for this guy when he pitched with a busted arm in 2018 to try to help this team win.

It isn't disdain as much as wondering, "How the fuck can this guy still be so emotionally immature," given circumstances including those you mention?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guadaloopy

Guadaloopy 10,971

Posted
Posted

So a good friend of mine does wood turning as a hobby and does custom items for his Etsy store.  He texted a couple of weeks ago and asked if I was interested in a custom piece.  One of his wood suppliers got some blanks of wood reclaimed from the MMP bullpen benches that were replaced after the 2017 season. 
So I ordered two of these - one to keep and one to give to my Dad.  It’s really cool knowing that my pen was likely farted on by Chris Devenski.  

426F204F-FBAE-4348-8DF3-F19CF32FA797.thumb.jpeg.2bb0b7a4009c97de920a0992569e4b90.jpeg

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
clapclapclap

clapclapclap 9,000

Posted
Posted

Let's be honest, the sports world, and especially the dumbass self-important baseball writers, will be kinder to 2017 era Astros that leave and perform well on other teams.  And if you're a free agent and think you have a shot at the HOF, it has to be tempting to take the easier road of leaving.  It's just how it is and a big part of the unquantifiable penalties of being caught cheating.

Disappointing, if true.  But I can't really be mad at a player who brought us a title choosing to go play for a team he grew up rooting for (the Red Sox.)  Now if he goes to the Yankees or Dodgers... (I'm hoping he ends up with any NL team but the Dodgers if he must leave.  OK, screw the Nats, too.)

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Scraps

Scraps 13,561

Posted
Posted

I think he would stay if money was there, but yeah leaving is better for any of these 2017 dudes legacy. Springer can go put up numbers on another team and potentially go win a title there and no one will give a shit about 2017 stuff. They win one here and it is always gonna be about 2017 still.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Scraps said:

 They win one here and it is always gonna be about 2017 still.
 

Yeah winning a 2nd WS title would be so fucking blah...

Not taking a shot at you, but wholly furk, did I read that correctly?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Scraps

Scraps 13,561

Posted
Posted (edited)

If you think the 2017 shit will go away for Bregman, Springer, Correa, Altuve if they win another title here then I don't know what to tell you.  Their careers are tainted in the general publics eye and will be regardless if they win another title with Houston.  If they win it with the Cubs or Red Sox or Dodgers no one will give a shit and the 2017 stuff will be overlooked for them most likely.   But if they win it with Houston it is still going to always be about 2017.  

I am guessing you are reading it as Springer wouldn't want another title here.  They would all want to win another title regardless if it is here or not, but you are living in la la land if you think it wouldn't be easier on one of those core four players to win it somewhere else and not have to deal with all the bullshit anymore.  

 

Edited by Scraps
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Scraps said:

If you think the 2017 shit will go away for Bregman, Springer, Correa, Altuve if they win another title here then I don't know what to tell you.  Their careers are tainted in the general publics eye and will be regardless if they win another title with Houston.  If they win it with the Cubs or Red Sox or Dodgers no one will give a shit and the 2017 stuff will be overlooked for them most likely.   But if they win it with Houston it is still going to always be about 2017.  

Regardless.

2 World Series titles would be 2 fucking World Series titles.  They're never going to do enough to overcome that taint(giggle.)  They have been to 4 ALCS in a row, and 2 WS during that time.  They did it this year with as a 6 seed, no Verlander, no Alvarez, etc, etc in addition  to a new manager.  The folks who don't find that respectable aren't suddenly going to have a change of heart.

Fuck em...

Edited by slorch
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19,070

Posted
  • Author
Posted
9 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

Let's be honest, the sports world, and especially the dumbass self-important baseball writers, will be kinder to 2017 era Astros that leave and perform well on other teams.  And if you're a free agent and think you have a shot at the HOF, it has to be tempting to take the easier road of leaving.  It's just how it is and a big part of the unquantifiable penalties of being caught cheating.

Disappointing, if true.  But I can't really be mad at a player who brought us a title choosing to go play for a team he grew up rooting for (the Red Sox.)  Now if he goes to the Yankees or Dodgers... (I'm hoping he ends up with any NL team but the Dodgers if he must leave.  OK, screw the Nats, too.)

I agree with the sentiment- but if Springer thinks he has a shot at the HOF he’s one of the dumber mother fuckers walking this planet. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Scraps

Scraps 13,561

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, slorch said:

Regardless.

2 World Series titles would be 2 fucking World Series titles.  They're never going to do enough to overcome that taint(giggle.)  They have been to 4 ALCS in a row, and 2 WS during that time.  They did it this year with as a 6 seed, no Verlander, no Alvarez, etc, etc in addition  to a new manager.  The folks who don't find that respectable aren't suddenly going to have a change of heart.

Fuck em...

Yes I agree with "Fuck em"

What I am saying is Springer may not have that mentality.  Correa obviously does.  People will have a change of heart for guys like Springer and Altuve who don't run their mouth if they were to do it for another team.  

 

Edited by Scraps
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Js1

Js1 85,341

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Yes I agree with "Fuck em"

What I am saying is Springer may not have that mentality.  Correa obviously does.  People will have a change of heart for guys like Springer and Altuve who don't run their mouth if they were to do it for another team.  

 

Joe Kelly would like a word on being on a cheater team and still running your mouth like a little biotch when you move on

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Scraps

Scraps 13,561

Posted
Posted
Joe Kelly would like a word on being on a cheater team and still running your mouth like a little biotch when you move on
Not sure your point. He wasn't running his mouth while on the Red Sox about their cheating.


"It" in previous post refers to winning a title not start running their mouth
Link to comment
Share on other sites
huge

huge 3,793

Posted
Posted

Anyone that thinks that Luhnow didn’t know what was going on is naive IMO.

And I don’t know what else to make about the supposed toxic work environment other than “it’s what Jeff fostered”.

I liked him as a GM due to the success and the players he brought in. But toxic culture and that shitstain Taubman business are all over him and it stinks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19,070

Posted
  • Author
Posted
33 minutes ago, Jshep34 said:

The toxic work environment i heard that from coaches, media, guest services some had expressed that sentiment anout work culture. Only way to move up was to back stab people.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

It’s a management style that’s as old as time itself in competitive work environments. I don’t like it as a boss and manager- everything I try to do is about team building- but in an industry where millions of people would get in and work for free basically, and there is so few jobs you can get away with it I suppose. 
just bc you can get away with something doesn’t mean you should and I’m not endorsing it, but I could see why a business consultant like him would be his go to move. 
lot of churn in that FO. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HillaryFan420

HillaryFan420 121

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, huge said:

Anyone that thinks that Luhnow didn’t know what was going on is naive IMO.

And I don’t know what else to make about the supposed toxic work environment other than “it’s what Jeff fostered”.

I liked him as a GM due to the success and the players he brought in. But toxic culture and that shitstain Taubman business are all over him and it stinks.

He surely knew about codebreaker given that other teams were doing something very similar.  I don't know if he really knew about the trash can banging.  Luhnow strikes me as someone who would be fine with cheating as long as the reward outweighed the risk, and at least for the trash cans that wasn't the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19,070

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, HillaryFan420 said:

 Luhnow strikes me as someone who would be fine with cheating as long as the reward outweighed the risk,

I agree with you completely. 
Also, I think you’ve just described 90% of humanity and 99% of people involved in competitive sports. 

Edited by Wulaw Horn
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gourmand

Gourmand 7,774

Posted
Posted

Luhnow remains an enigma to me and I really don't know what to make of the complaints about the Astros front office culture. For all these allegations, there's also some truth that they are coming from ex-employees and/or media who likely have an axe to grind. In the first episode of The Edge podcast, Reiter interviews one of the Astros assistant coaches under Bo Porter and he told about the time the team broke the news to him that they weren't bringing him back. In the exit interview Luhnow asked him "what can we do better?" and his response to him was to be present in the clubhouse and get the know the players and staff. That's fair and nothing the coach said was particularly controversial, it was just used to illustrate the their new way of conducting business contrasted with this particular coach's experience in baseball. I don't see anything overly troubling with that, there are all kinds of different management styles and some prefer to be more hands off. There's the widespread belief that many old school baseball insiders and media resented the Astros because Luhnow and his hires came off as arrogant and smarter than everyone else and then they had the success to back it up. They set themselves up for a fall and their critics were happy to kick them on the way down.  I have no idea where the truth resides, but from all the interviews he's done over the years I've never been anything but impressed with him. Maybe he's not the friendliest guy at the top and he's not the boss who mixes and mingles with staff members but he doesn't seem like a giant asshole either. I believe he bears some responsibility for the sign stealing scandal but he has more than paid a fair price for it because he's been disproportionately villainized to when you put everything into context.

I think this anecdotal story offers a version of Jeff Luhnow that we never read about.....It's a thread worth reading. 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HillaryFan420

HillaryFan420 121

Posted
Posted

I think it was definitely more than being arrogant that rubbed others the wrong way.  Things like the Osuna trade (leveraging a DV incident to get a premium reliever on the cheap), having to be talked out of drafting a convicted child rapist, the tanking, the Brady Aiken affair, etc.  Some of these things were pretty scummy while others were things that weren't that unreasonable or were things other orgs do themselves, but the totality of everything I think put a target on Luhnow's back.  Luhnow did not seem to have a sense that it was dangerous for him to cultivate this reputation with GMs/owners of other orgs which is a shame because he would have been just as effective a GM had he held back a little bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guadaloopy

Guadaloopy 10,971

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, HillaryFan420 said:

He surely knew about codebreaker given that other teams were doing something very similar.  I don't know if he really knew about the trash can banging.  Luhnow strikes me as someone who would be fine with cheating as long as the reward outweighed the risk, and at least for the trash cans that wasn't the case.

“Codebreaker” and “dark arts” aren’t illegal.  It’s smart analysis.  The line is crossed when it is used to relay information in real time during games.  It’s not clear anywhere that Luhnow knew  that was happening.  Like I’ve said before, he came off as very genuine in the KPRC interview last week.  I also think that a lot of the “toxic” environment claims sound like an unwillingness to embrace a new way of doing business mixed with sour grapes.  Some owner (not necessarily baseball) is going to hire him and build a winner.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19,070

Posted
  • Author
Posted
10 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

“Codebreaker” and “dark arts” aren’t illegal.  It’s smart analysis.  The line is crossed when it is used to relay information in real time during games.  It’s not clear anywhere that Luhnow knew  that was happening.  Like I’ve said before, he came off as very genuine in the KPRC interview last week.  I also think that a lot of the “toxic” environment claims sound like an unwillingness to embrace a new way of doing business mixed with sour grapes.  Some owner (not necessarily baseball) is going to hire him and build a winner.  

McNair should hire him for the Texans. The nfl is so stupid he’d be able to find 5 and 10 percent edges there while he was having to hunt for 1 percent edges in baseball bc almost everyone else has gotten smarter. 
that and soccer are the final frontiers. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jshep34

Jshep34 2,308

Posted
Posted
Happy Game 5 of 2017 World Series Day!
or I guess I should say Happy Start of Game 5 of 2017 World Series Day
Just a awesome day and game. Lilshep meeting secret service agents and getting a pin, meeting some 76ers players, watching bp with gf, being base stealer and being behind rf gate for altuve hr. And the whole bregman walk off. Once in a lifetime day.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mack Tripper

Mack Tripper 696

Posted
Posted
“Codebreaker” and “dark arts” aren’t illegal.  It’s smart analysis.  The line is crossed when it is used to relay information in real time during games.  It’s not clear anywhere that Luhnow knew  that was happening.  Like I’ve said before, he came off as very genuine in the KPRC interview last week.  I also think that a lot of the “toxic” environment claims sound like an unwillingness to embrace a new way of doing business mixed with sour grapes.  Some owner (not necessarily baseball) is going to hire him and build a winner.  

There’s no way Luhnow didn’t know what was going on. The MLB investigators, some of whom were former federal prosecutors, had multiple sources who said Luhnow knew. His interview was full of deflection, logical inconsistencies, and what appear to be half truths. He says MLB called him and said there were rumors of the Astros sign stealing but he didn’t do anything to look into it because they didn’t affirmative ask him to do anything? You gotta be fucking kidding me.

And even if, for the sake of argument, that he somehow didn’t, MLB had put all GMs on notice that they would be held responsible for violations of the sign stealing rules. So at minimum, he should have known. Hell, I went to a bunch of regular season games that year where I was sitting behind home plate or first base and could clearly hear the bangs. Of course at the time I had no idea what they were, but Luhnow could certainly hear the same thing from the owners box just a few feet away.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Damn... Hinch may wander in the desert for quite a while if they are willing to bring in that fossil.  

Maybe he and Kenny Giles will go into business together...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business and Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Subscribe!... Donate!... Advertise... COOKIE MONSTER!

×
×
  • Create New...