Abbott being Abbott

[Js1 85,522]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

"Look ma'am, I know you've been raped and are now carrying your rapists child, but I'm here to support you! Oh, no, sorry, I can't help you get an abortion, I'm here to make sure you don't get one. But I want to help you heal!"

“And don’t talk to me after you have the baby, welfare queen. It’s not our job to support you!”

[hayden_horn 11,365]

7 hours ago, workswithseed said:

He's talking about repeat offenders right now, and to hopefully get the rest later if possible.

As to your stats, I'll make sure to use better stats than the piece of paper and gum that @hayden_horn try to peddle.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8765248/

 

Objective: We attempted to determine the national rape-related pregnancy rate and provide descriptive characteristics of pregnancies that result from rape.

Study design: A national probability sample of 4008 adult American women took part in a 3-year longitudinal survey that assessed the prevalence and incidence of rape and related physical and mental health outcomes.

Results: The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year."

 

the fuck did i do?

[gmr548 16,601]

Good lord the last 100-150 posts contain some... gems.

[RomaVicta 29,967]

7 hours ago, workswithseed said:

He's talking about repeat offenders right now, and to hopefully get the rest later if possible.

As to your stats, I'll make sure to use better stats than the piece of paper and gum that @hayden_horn try to peddle.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8765248/

 

Objective: We attempted to determine the national rape-related pregnancy rate and provide descriptive characteristics of pregnancies that result from rape.

Study design: A national probability sample of 4008 adult American women took part in a 3-year longitudinal survey that assessed the prevalence and incidence of rape and related physical and mental health outcomes.

Results: The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year."

 

Well, if a person argues that abortion is murdering a human, why would there be any exception for any origin?

Are babies born of crime any less human than any other baby? Are persons of that origin inferior and not deserving of the breaths they take? 

If you're going to force a woman to go through a pregnancy she would otherwise choose to end, what difference does it make where the baby came from? The process is the same.

What's that? The argument is that you don't want to traumatize the woman? Very decent of you, indeed. So why traumatize a woman by forcing her to give birth when she doesn't want to? And, again, for those arguing in support of Abbott's fiat, what do you propose as penalties to enforce this law? What further punishment trauma will be inflicted in the name of justice?

Let's not leave Abbott and what he represents out of this thread about him. He is the epitome of the rank politician pushing any button he can to rouse an angry vote. The GOP as a party didn't care about abortion other than as a way to get a bloc of votes. This made even more foul the giant intestine that people like Abbott pass through on the way to high office. 

For those arguing against abortion rights, these people do not share your moral objection or even your morals. Your morals are jimmies to be rustled. Moral objections have merit. Moral objectives raised to law get the government peeking into bedroom windows and doctors' offices. These intrusions are of no matter to GOPs cynically seeking votes. 

I'd like to end there, but I want to be clear about something. There are (have been?) GOPs of fine morals that sometimes differ with mine. The bottom line is government involvement, individual rights, and exactly how do those wanting anti-abortion laws along the lines of Abbott plan to enforce them?

He doesn't give a shit, but we should.

[gmr548 16,601]

 
i can't wait until some R asshole gets caught paying for an abortion, and 10 million Texans sue his ass.
 
edit: I wonder if that provision is so that someone who goes to New Mexico to get an abortion can still be harassed and sued in Texas?
 
 
 

lol you think these people will sue a Republican

[hayden_horn 11,365]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

“And don’t talk to me after you have the baby, welfare queen. It’s not our job to support you!”

yeah, it seems fairly straightforward, and humanitarian, to provide more women's care so that there are fewer opportunities for abortions. that includes free contraception, funding for planned parenthood, so that women can get affordable/free care for their lady parts, cancer screening, pap smears, all the things. you want fewer abortions? take care of the women. 

instead, the republicans just want punitive measures, and how it's not transparent to everyone that they really don't care about the kids and especially women is beyond me. it'd be one thing if abbott did this while guaranteeing some semblance of care for women and, let's not forget, those unwanted children by introducing some kind of reform and more funding for our social safety net. 

but no, it's fuck the women and let the kids rot in a broken foster care system.

it's ghoulish.

[Anastasis 23,481]

8 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Please clarify your intent with the quoted phrase. 

Juxtaposition of the awesome ability to give birth and bring a new life into the world with the social perspective that true empowerment is instead rooted in the ability to determine whether to terminate it or not. 

[Bama Chick 28,596]

FFS no one says “true empowerment” (whatever the fuck that nonsense phrase means) comes from the right to have an abortion.

We want control over our bodies. That’s it.

[RomaVicta 29,967]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Juxtaposition of the awesome ability to give birth and bring a new life into the world with the social perspective that true empowerment is instead rooted in the ability to determine whether to terminate it or not. 

Soaring language is not necessarily relevant language. 

The awesome ability is rather commonplace, isn't it? The awesome part is what a woman chooses to go through to deliver a child. That's also commonplace but nonetheless heroic for its frequent occurence. 

You also seem to be using empowerment as a slur. Shame on you.

[Homercles 10,206]

So glad they’re working hard on pressing issues such as this and trans athletes...good thing we just didn’t have a crippling ice storm that exposed lack of oversight of critical infrastructure, or trying to eradicate a global pandemic.  In addition, Texas is already known as a bastion of women’s healthcare, education and rights in general...those dirty whores just need to contain their animal lust for guys like Greg Abbott. 
 

In seriousness, 6 weeks and the inclusion of assault victims is simply cruel, unnecessarily punitive, and generally inline with most republican proposals.  

Edited May 20, 2021 by Homercles

[tantric superman 4,667]

2 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

It’s relevant to a lot of people, whether you think that’s logical or not. Therefore it’s going to get brought up as evidence. I think that point has merit. 

Yeah, rereading WTB's post and my reply, I think you are correct.  I don't see any way to move forward if one party and not the other is making a religious argument, but a good counterargument on the religious person's playing field would be a valuable asset.

[Neonmoon 38,130]

The designation of barbarism is subjective, and in this instance, applied as a tool of control. One party believes the procedure of removing an embryo is barbaric, and thus must be stopped. They use word like "vacuum" and "life" to elicit emotional outrage. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,886]

10 hours ago, bonnieblue said:

If all men were forced to get vasectomies, abortions would drop overnight. Problem solved.

 

I would take a free vasectomy tomorrow

[wildcat09 29,376]

Anastasis is really reaching with the soaring language to cover up the fact that the world he wants is monstrous to around half of the human population.

[mchookem 16,366]

17 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Soaring language is not necessarily relevant language. 

The awesome ability is rather commonplace, isn't it? The awesome part is what a woman chooses to go through to deliver a child. That's also commonplace but nonetheless heroic for its frequent occurence. 

You also seem to be using empowerment as a slur. Shame on you.

thank you for this turn of phrase. again, as a woman that has chosen not to have a child despite having THIS AWESOME POWER...i have often pondered just how 'exceptional' it really is. billions and billions of women, since time began (literally), have this 'power' (not to mention every other species in the animal kingdom).

juxtaposed with the 99.9999% of the same time period that women have been subjugated, abused, assaulted, denied basic civil rights, seen as 'less than', discriminated against in ways huge and small every day, in almost every culture in history, etc etc...and how some of that has only recently (w/in the perspective of all time) been addressed, and still only in certain parts of the world...i might argue that female empowerment does not originate in me producing a kid. 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by mchookem

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

A side issue to this recent development is that a large percentage of GOP led states have put new laws on the books regarding protests. Depending upon the state, one can be charged with a felony, be banned from receiving benefits, etc. The laws already on the books regarding criminal/vandal activity during protests were used to prosecute illegal activities that happened during peaceful protests. The new laws are designed to intimidate and harass citizens attempting to exercise their First Amendment rights.

 

[Brisketexan 105,267]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Sexual assault is clearly awful, and I don't think that there are any easy answers other than to do whatever we can to provide support and opportunity for healing to the person that has been assaulted. In the context of the abortion discussion, again, I think that there are areas where people who approach the issue quite differently should be able to find some common ground and alignment. I pointed out one of those particular areas. 

What I find most awesomely impressive about this sort of approach, consistent with the entire "pro-life" discussion is that every last bit of burden, responsibility, and yep, shame, falls on.....women.  And women only.  

Were you raped?  Well, you gotta carry that baby.  But maybe we'll have a counselor talk to you.

Can't afford to carry a pregnancy because you can't perform your job while pregnant, and it sure doesn't offer paid maternity leave? Well, you shoulda kept your legs closed.

Can't afford to raise a child?  We'll definitely set up a child-support apparatus that does jack shit to collect from deadbeats.

Etc. etc. ad infinitum.

Fundamentally, our pregnancy and abortion policies reflect this insane dichotomy: the act of becoming pregnant, from which all consequences flow, requires both men and women. . . . but the consequences fall almost entirely on women, who get little to no support from the almighty State that decrees that they must bear all of those consequences.

We have no interest in protecting life, and limiting abortion.  If we did, we'd have non-magical-thinking sex ed and would hand out contraception like candy.  Instead, our entire policy framework is built on the principle of "slut shoulda kept her legs closed."  Which is the point.

[wildcat09 29,376]

It bears noting that he also entirely dodged the question of whether anyone involved with an illegal abortion should go to jail. Instead of an answer, we got some high minded language about becoming a less barbarous society and an accusation that it's us who are trying to obfuscate the issue by asking concrete questions about what he wants to actually happen in the real world. 

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

15 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Add university shame to that.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It bears noting that he also entirely dodged the question of whether anyone involved with an illegal abortion should go to jail. Instead of an answer, we got some high minded language about becoming a less barbarous society and an accusation that it's us who are trying to obfuscate the issue by asking concrete questions about what he wants to actually happen in the real world. 

The ability to sue anyone involved will likely render that point useless. Wouldn't this make insurance for providers difficult? Will family decide not to bother because they don't want to become targeted? Really really isolating for a young woman. Which again, the cruelty is the point. Were it not the point, we would have healthcare, daycare, pre-natal care, sexual education, contraception, paternal responsibility and so on.

[workswithseed 2,110]

1 hour ago, tantric superman said:

You seem like you'd be great at unthinking.

It's not my words. But good try to making a funny.

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

11 hours ago, tantric superman said:

 

Individuals who are irresponsible and have too many abortions -- we should provide counseling and education to decrease the instances of such activity.   

 

Nah let's make them have kids, that'll fix em.

[Gatorubet 30,286]

At six weeks:

The Spice must flow?

[JimmyJames 12,271]

56 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It bears noting that he also entirely dodged the question of whether anyone involved with an illegal abortion should go to jail. Instead of an answer, we got some high minded language about becoming a less barbarous society and an accusation that it's us who are trying to obfuscate the issue by asking concrete questions about what he wants to actually happen in the real world. 

Lol. Did you temporarily forget who you were talking to? There’s no better question dodger on the entire board. It’s quite impressive really. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by JimmyJames

[Anastasis 23,481]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Anastasis is really reaching with the soaring language to cover up the fact that the world he wants is monstrous to around half of the human population.

The closest that I have come to proposing a public policy wrt abortion on this thread is to say that we should consider focusing on reducing the abortion rate in situations where it is the third or greater go around. That would seem to be a place where all but the most extreme would be able to find some common ground and see a public health opportunity.  

[softlynow 1,819]

13 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Maybe one day you will chime in and advocate your pro-life position on this board, using your powers of persuasion. Or maybe not.

The abortion debate has broke many brains. We've turned empowering female qualities around live giving on their head, defining female empowerment instead on the alternative.   

 

Maybe some day. The prerequisite to effective persuasion is knowing your audience. I've read the room.

[4th&Five 41,586]

Can we get back to talking about the abortion that is our Governor?

[GW Hayduke 1,953]

13 hours ago, Anastasis said:

The abortion debate has broke many brains. We've turned empowering female qualities around live giving on their head, defining female empowerment instead on the alternative.  

So, why did your girl this like that when she so you see till her friend not him cooking probably?

[BearSchlong 8,109]

let the kids rot in a broken foster care system.
it's ghoulish.

Last week a 12 year old girl in foster care turned up pregnant, ostensibly by another juvenile. So some of them are rutting, not rotting.

[Jive Turkey 12,640]

3 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

instead, the republicans just want punitive measures

Punitive for the poors.  Because the Rs who support this bill will still have access to abortions. If the daughter of one of these bill supporters gets pregnant, they’ll just fly her out to La Jolla to get an abortion, then stay at a spa for the weekend. They’ll make it an abortion vaycay. 

She won’t have to live with the consequences of her actions the way poor women will. But that’s the modern GQP in a nutshell. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,142]

3 hours ago, mchookem said:

thank you for this turn of phrase. again, as a woman that has chosen not to have a child despite having THIS AWESOME POWER...i have often pondered just how 'exceptional' it really is. billions and billions of women, since time began (literally), have this 'power' (not to mention every other species in the animal kingdom).

juxtaposed with the 99.9999% of the same time period that women have been subjugated, abused, assaulted, denied basic civil rights, seen as 'less than', discriminated against in ways huge and small every day, in almost every culture in history, etc etc...and how some of that has only recently (w/in the perspective of all time) been addressed, and still only in certain parts of the world...i might argue that female empowerment does not originate in me producing a kid. 

 

I actually think the awesome power is not giving birth to a passel of mealy mouthed brats.  Any idiot can have a child.  Idiocracy out front tells you that.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,886]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

Can we get back to talking about the abortion that is our Governor?

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

He did do something positive in announcing a second round of federal food benefits for families with children (through Texas HHSC). So hopefully people won't starve to death.

[Huckleberry 33,069]

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Juxtaposition of the awesome ability to give birth and bring a new life into the world with the social perspective that true empowerment is instead rooted in the ability to determine whether to terminate it or not. 

It is wild how great of a point you think this is. I can find no other explanation for why you continue to say it despite the fact that it's an absolutely terrible argument.

It makes no sense whatsoever, it doesn't advance your overall position at all, and it is at its core completely juvenile in terms of its outlook on the world. Essentially what you're saying is "I admire women because they can do this thing I can't do so therefore we should require them to do that thing."

Your argument isn't powerful at all like you seem to think it is, it's actually bewildering.  Even from a general perspective, its basis is illogical. Being able to do something that half of nearly every mammalian species on the planet can do in one way or another isn't actually awesome or impressive.

Just an awesome pants-shitting performance by a usually intelligent poster.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,886]

14 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

He did do something positive in announcing a second round of federal food benefits for families with children (through Texas HHSC). So hopefully people won't starve to death.

while simultaneously cutting pandemic benefits for out of work Texans. you know, money that costs Texas exactly $0. so again, FUCK GREG ABBOTT!

[DonkeyCigars 143]

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

It bears noting that he also entirely dodged the question of whether anyone involved with an illegal abortion should go to jail. Instead of an answer, we got some high minded language about becoming a less barbarous society and an accusation that it's us who are trying to obfuscate the issue by asking concrete questions about what he wants to actually happen in the real world. 

Anastasis, in my worthy opinion if I do say so myself, is right. 

And to your question: yes illegal abortion should be jailed as murder/manslaughter.

Abortion is murder (hence the significance of the heart beat part of the bill) and this guy gets it:

Quote

 

Are babies born of crime any less human than any other baby? Are persons of that origin inferior and not deserving of the breaths they take? 

If you're going to force a woman to go through a pregnancy she would otherwise choose to end, what difference does it make where the baby came from? The process is the same.

 

Abortion no matter the origin is murder. If anyone asks if I've killed, I'd have to answer honestly and with a sorrowful regret.

I appreciate that not everyone believes what I believe (and that can blow my mind from time to time) and so there isn't really any point in arguing because nobody changes their mind on these things.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,142]

1 minute ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Anastasis, in my worthy opinion if I do say so myself, is right. 

And to your question: yes illegal abortion should be jailed as murder/manslaughter.

Abortion is murder (hence the significance of the heart beat part of the bill) and this guy gets it:

Abortion no matter the origin is murder. If anyone asks if I've killed, I'd have to answer honestly and with a sorrowful regret.

I appreciate that not everyone believes what I believe (and that can blow my mind from time to time) and so there isn't really any point in arguing because nobody changes their mind on these things.

Yeah, go fuck yourself.  You would fit right in in Saudi Arabia where they treat women like second class citizens.  

 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

1 minute ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Yeah, go fuck yourself.  You would fit right in in Saudi Arabia where they treat women like second class citizens.  

 

See? Exhibit A on why it's pointless to discuss because the opinion gulf is too wide, I guess. 

[mchookem 16,366]

6 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Anastasis, in my worthy opinion if I do say so myself, is right. 

And to your question: yes illegal abortion should be jailed as murder/manslaughter.

Abortion is murder (hence the significance of the heart beat part of the bill) and this guy gets it:

Abortion no matter the origin is murder. If anyone asks if I've killed, I'd have to answer honestly and with a sorrowful regret.

I appreciate that not everyone believes what I believe (and that can blow my mind from time to time) and so there isn't really any point in arguing because nobody changes their mind on these things.

there it is! finally lol...i was waiting for this. it's a lot less 'lofty' than Anastasis' fancy language, just cuts right to the core of why women should have no say in the matter. kudos for clarity. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by mchookem

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,886]

2 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

See? Exhibit A on why it's pointless to discuss because the opinion gulf is too wide, I guess. 

are you a dude? then stfu

[DonkeyCigars 143]

Just now, mchookem said:

there it is! finally lol...i was waiting for this. it's a lot less 'lofty' than Anastasis' fancy language, just cuts right to the core of why women should have no say in the matter. 

I'm not a fancy man, just a simple guy with a simple outlook on life. That is, Honor your mother and father and do not murder other human beings. You are destroying a creation of God by doing so.

Women and Men should have no say in the matter of the business of murder. I'm an equal opportunity employer of that belief.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,142]

4 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

See? Exhibit A on why it's pointless to discuss because the opinion gulf is too wide, I guess. 

No, it is because you are fucking wrong.  Saying life begins at the heartbeat is bullshit.  You only have that opinion because it isn't your body that is fucking held hostage to bring a screaming brat into the world.  It isn't you who groups want to make it harder to get birth control, birth control that is not 100% effective and can have dangerous side effects for those over a certain age.  It isn't you who has to pay for said not great birth control.  Seriously, get the fuck out of here.

Edited May 20, 2021 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,886]

3 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I'm not a fancy man, just a simple guy with a simple outlook on life. That is, Honor your mother and father and do not murder other human beings. You are destroying a creation of God by doing so.

Women and Men should have no say in the matter of the business of murder. I'm an equal opportunity employer of that belief.

so if your daughter/sister/mother gets pregnant by rape then in your eyes they should carry that child to term and care for it the rest of their lives? is that your stance? if that's what you believe and you're bolstered by what your "god" says then your god is a fucking piece of shit. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

6 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

No, it is because you are fucking wrong.  Saying life begins at the heartbeat is bullshit.  You only have that opinion because it isn't your body that is fucking held hostage to bring a screaming brat into the world.  It isn't you who groups want to make it harder to get birth control, birth control that is not 100% effective and can have dangerous side effects for those over a certain age.  It isn't you who has to pay for said not great birth control.  Seriously, get the fuck out of here.

I understand what you are saying. I just don't agree. I think you are wrong. Let's just leave it at that. Good luck out there;  hope everything works out for you!

[DonkeyCigars 143]

4 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

so if your daughter/sister/mother gets pregnant by rape then in your eyes they should carry that child to term and care for it the rest of their lives? is that your stance? if that's what you believe and you're bolstered by what your "god" says then your god is a fucking piece of shit. 

Yes.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

5 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

No, it is because you are fucking wrong.  Saying life begins at the heartbeat is bullshit.  You only have that opinion because it isn't your body that is fucking held hostage to bring a screaming brat into the world.  It isn't you who groups want to make it harder to get birth control, birth control that is not 100% effective and can have dangerous side effects for those over a certain age.  It isn't you who has to pay for said not great birth control.  Seriously, get the fuck out of here.

Males and their irresponsible ejaculations are responsible for unwanted pregnancies.  Men orgasm and could impregnate multiple women in one day. Abortion and male birth control and men's distaste for male birth control is a large part of the equation.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,886]

1 minute ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Yes.

well, then here's hoping that happens. go fuck yourself.

[workswithseed 2,110]

2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

well, then here's hoping that happens. go fuck yourself.

You hope women get raped? 

[bolverk 29,708]

2 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I understand what you are saying. I just don't agree. I think you are wrong. Let's just leave it at that. Good luck out there;  hope everything works out for you!

If it's not worth arguing, then maybe we should just go with what the majority of Texans want.

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/02/texas-gambling-abortion-marijuana-confederate/

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,820]

DNA testing is advanced enough that there should be a law every politician and aborted fetus needs to be sampled, and any match to an aborted fetus results in a murder charge to the father.