Abbott being Abbott

[JimmyJames 12,271]

I mean it’s 2:00 on a Sunday. 

[workswithseed 2,102]

Just now, JimmyJames said:

Are you drunk or high or both? 

If I was Mormon, I'd be sinning by drinking coffee.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

29 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Yeah, that seems stupid and unnecessary. Oh no, little Jimmy feels bad that people were terrible the other Americans cause of their race. He shouldn't feel empathy. We gonna sue you for teaching history.

Hell, if worry, just get on school boards, and make sure you tech little Jimmy what you think how it happened. No need to sue someone.

 

This is some good ole frontier gibberish. 

[JimmyJames 12,271]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

If I was Mormon, I'd be sinning by drinking coffee.

That doesn’t answer the question. 
 

It’s cool if you’re partying. But remember this. Fools write letters. Wise men read them. 

[workswithseed 2,102]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

That doesn’t answer the question. 
 

It’s cool if you’re partying. But remember this. Fools write letters. Wise men read them. 

I'm saying I'm sober, man.

I see what went wrong. I missed up one word, and it's too hard to read further. I said racism bad, and Jimmy should know the past. If parents don't like it, just parent.

Edited May 23, 2021 by workswithseed

[atomheartbevo 89,649]

33 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I guaran-fucking-tee that Republicans would like to erase all traces of this little document.

https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/secession/2feb1861.html

DECLARATION OF CAUSES: February 2, 1861
A declaration of the causes which impel the State of Texas to secede from the Federal Union.

The government of the United States, by certain joint resolutions, bearing date the 1st day of March, in the year A.D. 1845, proposed to the Republic of Texas, then a free, sovereign and independent nation, the annexation of the latter to the former as one of the co-equal States thereof,

The people of Texas, by deputies in convention assembled, on the fourth day of July of the same year, assented to and accepted said proposals and formed a constitution for the proposed State, upon which on the 29th day of December in the same year, said State was formally admitted into the Confederated Union.

Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated States to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility [sic] and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?

The controlling majority of the Federal Government, under various pretences and disguises, has so administered the same as to exclude the citizens of the Southern States, unless under odious and unconstitutional restrictions, from all the immense territory owned in common by all the States on the Pacific Ocean, for the avowed purpose of acquiring sufficient power in the common government to use it as a means of destroying the institutions of Texas and her sister slave-holding States.

Wait, teachers can teach about this:

Quote

Texas Public Policy Foundation, which supports the bill, says the foundation of a child’s social studies curriculum should be based on the original documents which created the American standards for life, liberty, and democracy, such as the Declaration of Independence, American Constitution and Federalist Papers.

“When parents send their children to school, they want their students to learn critical thinking without being indoctrinated with misinformation charging that America and our Constitution are rooted in racism,” said a statement from Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick. He congratulated the bill’s authors as well Saturday.

 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2,663]

Are there not any First Amendment issues when it comes to teachers and curriculum? Not being allowed to give certain information (within the bounds of the accepted curriculum) smells like  a ban on protected speech, to me. Then again, they make doctors give misinformation to patients regarding risks of abortion, so I guess it's all cool ? 

[Guest Lobo]

There is no way in the world Dan Patrick knows what the Federalist Papers are.  If you asked him to name his favorite one, $50 and my left nut says he'd answer, "Oh boy...I like 'em all about the same I guess."  

[Neonmoon 38,129]

So when is Abbot hosting the first book burning event? That’s the next step in this autocratic shit right?

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

12 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

So when is Abbot hosting the first book burning event? That’s the next step in this autocratic shit right?

I'll have to check my notes. At some point, there are loyalty oaths, banning female education, race segregated education, banning of evolution as a theory, and I can't recall where book burning falls in the timeline.

[StassneyHorn 6,575]

If 7th graders have to take Texas History than I hope they spend all 8th grade learning about the Southern Strategy.

Could also have a True/False question like “Was Lincoln even on the ballot in 10 Southern States led by governors who now claim he’s the leader of the Party?”

Maybe an essay that asks would Lincoln support waving the Confederate flag at his rallies if he were alive today?

maybe a fill in the blank of Lee Atwater: “You start out in 1954 by saying, _____, ________, ______. By 1968 you can’t say _______—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a by product of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites and subconsciously maybe that is part of it.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

31 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Wait, teachers can teach about this:

 

All MEN are created at least 3/5 equal, unless they aren’t men, are black, or don’t own property, which includes other people.  

[South Austin 52,463]

Abbott’s new Civil War curriculum:  The South Didn’t Lose The Civil War. It Just Ran Out Of Bullets.

“He’s more aggy than Longhorn now.” - Obi Wan Kenobi.

[tchookem 3,900]

that phrase as it relates to course concept/requirements as written in the bill opens up (IMO) teachers to being sued because a parent can use that phrase with a broad brush can't they? Even if it has a very specific meaning, it would act as a blanket to stifle any classroom discussion where students have different points of view. because what teacher wants to open up that can of worms. Going further down that path yields a return to segregated schools so that no one "feels" uncomfortable. May be the end goal regardless, but the party of snowflakes is on the march.
 

You're suspicions are correct. I'd only add that it's less about the kids' comfort levels and more about the parents' comfort levels when confronted with difficult questions from their kids.

Of course parents should be teaching kids HOW to have those difficult conversations, but difficult conversations are difficult. Unfortunately, it's not enough for them to avoid difficult conversations, they have to make sure EVERY kid avoids difficult conversations.

Never underestimate the lengths (some) parents will go to so they can avoid parenting.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

 

I say they just hand out the Texas declaration of secession. Ask the students to read it aloud. When you get to the part about how whites are inherently superior to the negro race, have em read that part twice. Then say “man....so ain’t that something?”

We don’t need to spin anything. Not a single goddamned thing. Just have them read the sacred “founding documents” as they are written.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I say they just hand out the Texas declaration of secession. Ask the students to read it aloud. When you get to the part about how whites are inherently superior to the negro race, have em read that part twice. Then say “man....so ain’t that something?”

We don’t need to spin anything. Not a single goddamned thing. Just have them read the sacred “founding documents” as they are written.

And you and I both know there would be parents in Carroll and Montgomery districts saying, "About time they're learning this. That anti-white racism was getting out of hand."

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

16 minutes ago, tchookem said:

You're suspicions are correct. I'd only add that it's less about the kids' comfort levels and more about the parents' comfort levels when confronted with difficult questions from their kids.

Of course parents should be teaching kids HOW to have those difficult conversations, but difficult conversations are difficult. Unfortunately, it's not enough for them to avoid difficult conversations, they have to make sure EVERY kid avoids difficult conversations.

Never underestimate the lengths (some) parents will go to so they can avoid parenting.

Agree. Another part of that is not just the conversation (or lack thereof) between parent and child, but the interaction in the school between cohorts. Take students that are a little older and one comes from a minority family. His/her classmate comes from a white family that is of the 'poor people are poor because they deserve to be/lazy/lack intelligence/what have you. Which child is more likely to have their views for what they see in the real world validated by the truth? In the classroom and on the playground, that creates a power issue among peer groups which challenges the (white) parent's belief about where their child should be in that competitive hierarchy. I've seen it play out among white parents when there are large numbers of Asian-American students at a campus as well.

[tchookem 3,900]

 

It's part of my 7th grade TX History class. This year I struggled with the decision of how to cover this document over Zoom. You never know how many are giving 100% of their attention, how many are giving half their attention, and how many parents are going to walk in just in time to hear me say Africans are "an inferior and dependent race". I wasn't sure I wanted to even bother.

In the end I decided to do my thing the best I could and let the chips fall where they may. How many genuinely learned anything? Who knows? But then again that was pretty much the story of this school year.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

But we can’t educate educators about this thing called critical race theory.   They might teach the kids about it.  You know, that stuff we all learned about Tulsa, or the Slocum massacre, or the fact that redneck loser confederate traitor shitheads executed hundreds of other Texans because, well, they were traitorous shitheads.

[tchookem 3,900]

Agree. Another part of that is not just the conversation (or lack thereof) between parent and child, but the interaction in the school between cohorts. Take students that are a little older and one comes from a minority family. His/her classmate comes from a white family that is of the 'poor people are poor because they deserve to be/lazy/lack intelligence/what have you. Which child is more likely to have their views for what they see in the real world validated by the truth? In the classroom and on the playground, that creates a power issue among peer groups which challenges the (white) parent's belief about where their child should be in that competitive hierarchy. I've seen it play out among white parents when there are large numbers of Asian-American students at a campus as well.

Naturally the solution is finding a private/ charter school that better matches their worldview (with accompanying voucher). I'm only half kidding when I say this is another piece in privatizing public education puzzle.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

I didn't grow up in Texas, do they cover the lynchings of Hispanic/Mexican Americans in the curriculum? I can't recall my children ever bringing it up when they took the classes. I didn't learn of it until reading about something else.

[tchookem 3,900]

I didn't grow up in Texas, do they cover the lynchings of Hispanic/Mexican Americans in the curriculum? I can't recall my children ever bringing it up when they took the classes. I didn't learn of it until reading about something else.

Lynchings are tough call. 7th graders are all over ther place maturity-wise and it's possible that one kid can completely derail the conversation for 29 others (kinda like this message board).

Most of the time its covered in generalities: "there was discrimination", "many faced violence and had property taken". Sometimes you have to wait and let the high school get into the brutal details.

[workswithseed 2,102]

13 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I didn't grow up in Texas, do they cover the lynchings of Hispanic/Mexican Americans in the curriculum? I can't recall my children ever bringing it up when they took the classes. I didn't learn of it until reading about something else.

We didn't even cover the Goliad massacre. I don't think we really went over much of the way of terrible deeds at all. The Alamo was a given, and how the Mexican Texians helped Travis and crew out. Otherwise, no.

[workswithseed 2,102]

2 minutes ago, tchookem said:

Lynchings are tough call. 7th graders are all over ther place maturity-wise and it's possible that one kid can completely derail the conversation for 29 others (kinda like this message board).

Most of the time its covered in generalities: "there was discrimination", "many faced violence and had property taken". Sometimes you have to wait and let the high school get into the brutal details.

Iirc, we didn't really even go over the Mexican American war. She just said it happened, and we went to Texas government. I could be wrong though being that it was 16 years ago.

[Anastasis 23,469]

Good book if you want to unpack the unique Texas intersection of race and social structure dynamics. Foley used to teach at UT but got poached by SMU. 

https://www.amazon.com/White-Scourge-Mexicans-American-Crossroads/dp/0520207246

 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Iirc, we didn't really even go over the Mexican American war. She just said it happened, and we went to Texas government. I could be wrong though being that it was 16 years ago.

Look up the Nueces massacre, or Slocum (not RC), or any number of atrocities you didn’t learn about in school. Do you even know about Tulsa?  I’m not being a complete asshole, just curious if you even know.  

[workswithseed 2,102]

1 minute ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Look up the Nueces massacre, or Slocum (not RC), or any number of atrocities you didn’t learn about in school. Do you even know about Tulsa?  I’m not being a complete asshole, just curious if you even know.  

I found out about Tulsa when @bolverk posted it up here.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

I found out about Tulsa when @bolverk posted it up here.

Well, continue your education.  😂. My pops was a teacher and drove a school bus during desegregation.  He endured a bunch of what the worst of humanity had to offer, and shared that with me in quieter times.  It was eye opening.  

[StassneyHorn 6,575]

9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Good book if you want to unpack the unique Texas intersection of race and social structure dynamics. Foley used to teach at UT but got poached by SMU. 

https://www.amazon.com/White-Scourge-Mexicans-American-Crossroads/dp/0520207246

 

Was my one of my favorite professors on campus 08-11,  +1 the rec 

[pyrohornIII 4,814]

If black athletes declared they wouldn't play another game until this bullshit was corrected, it wouldn't take long to set it right.  

 

These fuckers in red state capitols all over the country are going full scorched earth on their voter suppression, abortion, education agendas.  They either know they can't be stopped, or they know it's their last hurrah.  I'm just surprised none of them have tried to roll back abolition.   

[Anastasis 23,469]

5 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Was my one of my favorite professors on campus 08-11,  +1 the rec 

Didn't take his class, but interacted with him quite a bit in a non-academic setting.  He's one cool character. I could see him killing it in an academic lecture setting. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Anastasis

[StassneyHorn 6,575]

Yea took his Cultural and Social History of US Since 1941 class, connected with the students real well. Always tried to tie in a Madmen reference. 
 

Zoot suit riots in summer ‘43 is another good google wormhole for those looking. Beaumont had their own flare up that lasted a couple days during that time

Edited May 23, 2021 by StassneyHorn

[Anastasis 23,469]

11 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

If black athletes declared they wouldn't play another game until this bullshit was corrected, it wouldn't take long to set it right.  

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Didn't take his class, but interacted with him quite a bit in a non-academic setting.  He's one cool character. I could see him killing it in an academic lecture setting. 

I had the privilege of having Walt Rostow as a visiting lecturer for 2 weeks when I was getting my degree.  I think I learned more in that two weeks than I had in my previous 18 years.  Dude was a walking sack of regrets, but full of knowledge.  

[Guest Lobo]

18 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I had the privilege of having Walt Rostow as a visiting lecturer for 2 weeks when I was getting my degree.  I think I learned more in that two weeks than I had in my previous 18 years.  Dude was a walking sack of regrets, but full of knowledge.  

His wife was also just an absolute fountain of knowledge with global experience.  They were both Texas treasures and should have buildings named after their family on our campus.  I only spent a few days with her, but she I've rarely been around people that so quietly commanded a space.  As I understand from people I take real serious, he was the exact same way times ten.  

Anyway, I'd give 10 Dan Patricks to have one Rostow back in this world.  

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

His wife was also just an absolute fountain of knowledge with global experience.  They were both Texas treasures and should have buildings named after their family on our campus.  I only spent a few days with her, but she I've rarely been around people that so quietly commanded a space.  As I understand from people I take real serious, he was the exact same way times ten.  

Anyway, I'd give 10 Dan Patricks to have one Rostow back in this world.  

Not sure if you’re serious but yeah, E was pretty cool.  You know what else was cool that semester, Ted fucking Turner came and gave us a talk.

[Willfully Horn 8,008]

On 5/20/2021 at 7:13 PM, mchookem said:

ahh...thank you. at least now i get it. it's stupid, but i get it lol

 

ok...is nobody else tripping that the Bible provides instructions for how to induce an abortion?? i'm still floored 😳 

ETA: or did everybody but me already know this lol.

I am struck by the patriarchal control of the bitter waters. But, hey, that was back when deus ex machina was part of the Law, amirite?
 

[Guest Lobo]

Yes, I'm serious.  I crossed paths with her many times in her last few years around myriad UT endeavors and was always blown away by her.  Never knew her husband but her stories about him, and others telling stories about him (mostly by Updegrove) have long fascinated me.  

[WhatTheBuck 28,776]

5 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

Could also have a True/False question like “Was Lincoln even on the ballot in 10 Southern States led by governors who now claim he’s the leader of the Party?”

Maybe an essay that asks would Lincoln support waving the Confederate flag at his rallies if he were alive today?

Few things piss me off more than when modern Republicans refer to the GOP as “the party of Lincoln.” Lincoln was a progressive and an intellectual. He’d have nothing to do with the modern Republican Party and they’d have nothing to do with him. 

[fattyflattie 4,639]

8 hours ago, workswithseed said:

I found out about Tulsa when @bolverk posted it up here.

Same. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,100]

I guaran-fucking-tee that Republicans would like to erase all traces of this little document.
https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/secession/2feb1861.html
DECLARATION OF CAUSES: February 2, 1861
A declaration of the causes which impel the State of Texas to secede from the Federal Union.
The government of the United States, by certain joint resolutions, bearing date the 1st day of March, in the year A.D. 1845, proposed to the Republic of Texas, then a free, sovereign and independent nation, the annexation of the latter to the former as one of the co-equal States thereof,
The people of Texas, by deputies in convention assembled, on the fourth day of July of the same year, assented to and accepted said proposals and formed a constitution for the proposed State, upon which on the 29th day of December in the same year, said State was formally admitted into the Confederated Union.
Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated States to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility [sic] and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?
The controlling majority of the Federal Government, under various pretences and disguises, has so administered the same as to exclude the citizens of the Southern States, unless under odious and unconstitutional restrictions, from all the immense territory owned in common by all the States on the Pacific Ocean, for the avowed purpose of acquiring sufficient power in the common government to use it as a means of destroying the institutions of Texas and her sister slave-holding States.

I think someone should approach major newspapers and have them print this, in its entirety. Something about forgotten history and whitewashing. HC, AAS, DMN, FWST, and SAEN should collaborate and then run it. Then it needs to be posted on all forms of social media. Gloves off.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,100]

Look up the Nueces massacre, or Slocum (not RC), or any number of atrocities you didn’t learn about in school. Do you even know about Tulsa?  I’m not being a complete asshole, just curious if you even know.  

No US History class I took ever covered Tulsa. I didn't know about it until Watchmen came out, and I consider myself pretty well read when it comes to history. It is something I have read about since as I notice the glaring holes in my understanding of US History. Not everyone is as intellectually curious however.

[DDD Dad 14,332]

No US History class I took ever covered Tulsa. I didn't know about it until Watchmen came out, and I consider myself pretty well read when it comes to history. It is something I have read about since as I notice the glaring holes in my understanding of US History. Not everyone is as intellectually curious however.

Same. As it happens there was an interesting segment on 60 minutes last night about the massacre. Worth a watch if you can find it.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

4 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

17 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Look up the Nueces massacre, or Slocum (not RC), or any number of atrocities you didn’t learn about in school. Do you even know about Tulsa?  I’m not being a complete asshole, just curious if you even know.  

No US History class I took ever covered Tulsa. I didn't know about it until Watchmen came out, and I consider myself pretty well read when it comes to history. It is something I have read about since as I notice the glaring holes in my understanding of US History. Not everyone is as intellectually curious however.

I learned about it a bit before many of you, it seems.....but still WAY fucking late in life.  Probably 7-8 years ago or so.  And once I learned about it, I just have this memory burned into my brain, of the first time I visited Tulsa, for my BIL's wedding 25 years ago or so.

My FIL -- who is a POS E. Texas racist, by the way -- is driving after we had gone to the tuxedo shop to confirm our fittings.  I was commenting about how Tulsa actually looked like a nice town, compared to the OK I knew (Oklahoma City and environs).  He cheerfully agreed, describing some of the natural beauty, the old downtown . . . and then he paused . . . "yeah . . . but they've got a real n----r problem."  The conversation just stopped.  Completely shut down.  I didn't know what to say.  I didn't even know what he meant, and I didn't really care to.  It was one of the shittiest things I'd ever heard another person say.  And then to have that statement, burned into my brain in 1995 or so, pop back up in my head immediately when I learned about the Tulsa Massacre 20 years later . . . fuck that shit.  A racist POS can casually drive through a city that conducted an organized slaughter and ethnic cleansing of black people, and say "yeah, but they've got a real n----r problem."  For fuck's sake, man.

For the record, my wife and I have functionally cut my FIL out of our lives.  We just don't see him, our kids don't see him or have much of a relationship with him.  Because his worldview hasn't gotten better.  Isolated among his Trumpy peers, he's only gotten worse.  He is the perfect encapsulation of the GQP base, and I am certain he'll vote for whichever nutbar challenging Abbott is the trumpiest.

[wildcat09 29,349]

The thing about the Tulsa massacre is that it was hardly unique during its time. There were at least a dozen like it around the country in the early 20th century and probably more that have just been completely wiped from history. And these were 50-60 years after the Civil War. Real racial progress had been made, but much of it was lost to this violent backlash. That can happen again.

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

 

14 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The thing about the Tulsa massacre is that it was hardly unique during its time. There were at least a dozen like it around the country in the early 20th century and probably more that have just been completely wiped from history. And these were 50-60 years after the Civil War. Real racial progress had been made, but much of it was lost to this violent backlash. That can happen again.

Agree not unique at all, just lost in the passage of time due to the same forces that are working hard now.

I spent my youth in Tulsa prior to moving north. The attitude that Brisket mentions existed throughout the city--peel back the layer of civility that the more educated cultivate, and it was laid bare.

[bolverk 29,665]

On 5/23/2021 at 4:31 PM, workswithseed said:

I found out about Tulsa when @bolverk posted it up here.

 

On 5/24/2021 at 1:19 AM, fattyflattie said:

Same. 

Next Monday will mark the 100th anniversary of this event. In today's NYTimes, they have a fantastic interactive story map or visual representation of the scale of destruction that occurred. It's absolutely worth scrolling through (on a monitor - not your phone) and using one of your monthly free-use clicks.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/24/us/tulsa-race-massacre.html

 

[fattyflattie 4,639]

On 5/24/2021 at 10:51 AM, wildcat09 said:

The thing about the Tulsa massacre is that it was hardly unique during its time

The violence, perhaps not. But my understanding is the uniqueness was due to the fact the AA community was thriving (financially) there.  That certainly was not common. 

[Kel Varnsen 8,459]

Not to take away from the subject, but damn that NY Times site is a great use of technology to tell a story.

[wildcat09 29,349]

8 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Not to take away from the subject, but damn that NY Times site is a great use of technology to tell a story.

There’s a lot about the Times that drives me nuts, but they’ve been using their website to do some incredibly good visual journalism the past few years.