Abbott being Abbott

[C-Man 27,254]

8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

Ha -- that's a blast from the past. I remember going to a couple of big get togethers at Roy Barrera's house in San Antonio. He lived up the road from us. Pretty sure I was there in 1985 when the Chicago Bears hammered the Cowboys like 44-0 one Sunday afternoon.

[South Austin 52,561]

5 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

There was also a video of him (from I think the mid or later 2000s) having a few drinks in him, and he was not what you normally saw as President.  Smooth talking, etc.

I thought Bush had long before quit drinking.

Oh, and fuck Abbott.

[Chad Fuck 17,740]

He has the Texas Supreme Court ready to rubber stamp his dictatorship !

Your elected GQP TX Supreme Court folks!

[AnTiM 1,669]

So our governor is now asking other states for help in fighting the new outbreak of cases in our state due to his own stupidity.  Great, I hope they all tell him to get fucked in a loud and public voice.

[Asithappens 974]

27 minutes ago, AnTiM said:

So our governor is now asking other states for help in fighting the new outbreak of cases in our state due to his own stupidity.  Great, I hope they all tell him to get fucked in a loud and public voice.

Maybe California will take pity on poor Texas. 

First the big freeze, now this. 

Texas has become kind of a joke under Abbott.

[Firemans4Horn 18,118]

 

[Bateshorn 9,929]

2 hours ago, South Austin said:

I thought Bush had long before quit drinking.

Oh, and fuck Abbott.

There were rumors in DC that he fell off the wagon during the second term, to the point where Laura was living in Blair House for awhile.  

[South Austin 52,561]

Just now, Bateshorn said:

There were rumors in DC that he fell off the wagon during the second term, to the point where Laura was living in Blair House for awhile.  

I see.  Never heard that before. 

[Born to Run 6,569]

There were rumors in DC that he fell off the wagon during the second term, to the point where Laura was living in Blair House for awhile.  

Wouldn't blame him if he did, but I'd imagine it was hard to hold a drink, what with all the blood on his hands.

[Chewy's Hairy Horn 868]

Someone posted this before, but it’s still relevant.

[Ghost of LL 15,539]

So Fresa's and Launderette both said they were going to require vaccines for in-person dining.  Well, rumor is they just got a visit from TABC telling them they better not.

And I think that's real interesting.  Because if you keep up on decision out of the Supreme Court--and I do--you would've taken note of Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid from June, in which SCOTUS held that a regulation preventing a property owner from excluding people (in that case, union organizers) constituted a Fifth Amendment taking for which compensation was due.

So yeah--if one of those establishments wants to go to the mat, they have a real interesting case.

[wildcat09 29,376]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

So Fresa's and Launderette both said they were going to require vaccines for in-person dining.  Well, rumor is they just got a visit from TABC telling them they better not.

And I think that's real interesting.  Because if you keep up on decision out of the Supreme Court--and I do--you would've taken note of Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid from June, in which SCOTUS held that a regulation preventing a property owner from excluding people (in that case, union organizers) constituted a Fifth Amendment taking for which compensation was due.

So yeah--if one of those establishments wants to go to the mat, they have a real interesting case.

I just figured out how I’m going to die. SCOTUS pulling a 180 to side with a TABC enforcement action will cause my brain to explode.

[Ghost of LL 15,539]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

I just figured out how I’m going to die. SCOTUS pulling a 180 to side with a TABC enforcement action will cause my brain to explode.

On the one hand, Cedar Point Nursery does kind of logically follow from a lot of SCOTUS's recent precedent on takings.

On the other hand, it distinctly seems like a case in which SCOTUS let their anti-union sentiment get ahead of them and didn't think through all of the consequences.

[RDCanecutter 26,462]

9 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

So Fresa's and Launderette both said they were going to require vaccines for in-person dining.  Well, rumor is they just got a visit from TABC telling them they better not.

And I think that's real interesting.  Because if you keep up on decision out of the Supreme Court--and I do--you would've taken note of Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid from June, in which SCOTUS held that a regulation preventing a property owner from excluding people (in that case, union organizers) constituted a Fifth Amendment taking for which compensation was due.

So yeah--if one of those establishments wants to go to the mat, they have a real interesting case.

So say a restaurant wants to become a private club. Membership is either $10,000/year, or proof of vaccination?

[DDD Dad 14,346]

22 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

So say a restaurant wants to become a private club. Membership is either $10,000/year, or proof of vaccination?

Well they'll have to apply for a different liquor license, and their cost of goods will skyrocket. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by DDD Dad

[Ghost of LL 15,539]

4 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

So say a restaurant wants to become a private club. Membership is either $10,000/year, or proof of vaccination?

I really don't know.  I suspect you could do that.  I'm just not sufficiently clear on the alcohol laws in Texas.

[jimmyjazz 46,080]

"Unvaccinated person" is a protected class?

[DDD Dad 14,346]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I really don't know.  I suspect you could do that.  I'm just not sufficiently clear on the alcohol laws in Texas.

Though you could do that, why would you?  The added layer of tax on your liquor from wholesale makes the margins impossible (if you want your pricing to be competitive).

[Updawg 2,286]

But you are allowed to not sell cakes to gay people

[TexArcher 38,009]

20 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

"Unvaccinated person" is a protected class?

Yeah, it's a type of ruhtard.

 

[NameAlreadyInUse 5,114]

18 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Though you could do that, why would you?  The added layer of tax on your liquor from wholesale makes the margins impossible (if you want your pricing to be competitive).

Why do you say that? I grew up in Texas, in a dry county.  Every bar was a private club.  It had to be in order for you to be able to buy a drink there.  You got a card for like $10 that gave you the ability to buy drinks at the club and this was a small hick town of 8000 people, they didn't have the foot traffic or the high brow clientele that would've been required to sell at big margins.

[DDD Dad 14,346]

Just now, NameAlreadyInUse said:

Why do you say that? I grew up in Texas, in a dry county.  Every bar was a private club.  It had to be in order for you to be able to buy a drink there.  You got a card for like $10 that gave you the ability to buy drinks at the club and this was a small hick town of 8000 people, they didn't have the foot traffic or the high brow clientele that would've been required to sell at big margins.

I'm not a TABC expert but I have served on the board of a private club that served alcohol (not in a dry county/area).  For the former type of private club, it was required to purchase from a wholesaler that had a specific type of retail license, and the pricing included a pretty hefty sales tax (13 percent IIRC).  Then the club was still required to collect sales tax from its members and their guests to remit to the state.  It's been a few years since I was on the board but I'm not aware of any changes since then.

[jimmyjazz 46,080]

5 minutes ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

Why do you say that? I grew up in Texas, in a dry county.  Every bar was a private club.  It had to be in order for you to be able to buy a drink there.  You got a card for like $10 that gave you the ability to buy drinks at the club and this was a small hick town of 8000 people, they didn't have the foot traffic or the high brow clientele that would've been required to sell at big margins.

I think I paid $1 to "join" the club in Wimberley.  It's not a burden, for sure.

EDIT:  responding to DDD's post, I don't recall it being particularly expensive for a local bar.  Maybe it was?  I think I only drank there once, and as I recall that was because we were eating there and I wanted a couple of beers with dinner.

Edited August 12, 2021 by jimmyjazz

[DDD Dad 14,346]

[DalTxHornFan 3,115]

Private clubs in Texas do remit alcohol sales taxes to the state.

Pretty cool searchable site:  http://www.barmart.net/reportwelcomepage.html

Edited August 12, 2021 by DalTxHornFan

[jimmyjazz 46,080]

3 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Sorry to frustrate you so much.  Care to explain?

[DDD Dad 14,346]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Sorry to frustrate you so much.  Care to explain?

Maybe my reading comprehension is off today, but I was talking about how going private would cause a bar's cost of goods to increase and potentially affect its profit margin because of double taxation.  NAIU responded by saying how he was able to join a "private" club for $10, which completely missed my point.  Then you commented similarly.  Hence my gif.

I ran my club's food and beverage committee, so I was knee deep in TABC shit all the time.  Unless things have changed, bottle cost for a wine for a private club after the first layer of TABC tax is basically just a little below what you would pay for the same wine in a retail store.  So, going from a full public sale TABC license to a private club license would necessarily increase your cost of sales.

Sorry for the thread drift.

[jimmyjazz 46,080]

5 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Maybe my reading comprehension is off today, but I was talking about how going private would cause a bar's cost of goods to increase and potentially affect its profit margin because of double taxation.  NAIU responded by saying how he was able to join a "private" club for $10, which completely missed my point.  Then you commented similarly.  Hence my gif.

I ran my club's food and beverage committee, so I was knee deep in TABC shit all the time.  Unless things have changed, bottle cost for a wine for a private club after the first layer of TABC tax is basically just a little below what you would pay for the same wine in a retail store.  So, going from a full public sale TABC license to a private club license would necessarily increase your cost of sales.

No, I got that.  Ultimately, as the consumer, I care what it costs ME.  Maybe my experience is skewed by the "dry county" model, which tend to be small, rural locales where the overall costs are lower (primarily rent, I would assume).  

Anyway, carry on.

[Macanudo 13,007]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

 I'm just not sufficiently clear on the alcohol laws in Texas.

Uh, no one really is.   Not even the TABC.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5,114]

31 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Maybe my reading comprehension is off today, but I was talking about how going private would cause a bar's cost of goods to increase and potentially affect its profit margin because of double taxation.  NAIU responded by saying how he was able to join a "private" club for $10, which completely missed my point.  Then you commented similarly.  Hence my gif.

I ran my club's food and beverage committee, so I was knee deep in TABC shit all the time.  Unless things have changed, bottle cost for a wine for a private club after the first layer of TABC tax is basically just a little below what you would pay for the same wine in a retail store.  So, going from a full public sale TABC license to a private club license would necessarily increase your cost of sales.

Sorry for the thread drift.

No I didn't miss your point, I think I wasn't clear in my rebuttal to your point.  I was saying I wasn't sure about there being a difference because the types of places I was talking about weren't attracting the type of customers that would have been willing to pay a premium, so I wasn't aware that a premium existed.  However, there could be completely different rules for dry vs. non dry areas too.  Your followup made me think that there is potentially a different set of rules depending on your county and so I repped you and dropped it.  

Edited August 12, 2021 by NameAlreadyInUse

[atomheartbevo 89,777]

Not a rumor.  Republicans showing their Big Government colors.  

https://austin.eater.com/2021/8/12/22622221/austin-restaurants-cant-require-proof-of-vaccine-liquor-license-pulled-tabc

 

[Hagbard Celine 10,907]

2 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

I really don't know.  I suspect you could do that.  I'm just not sufficiently clear on the alcohol laws in Texas.

the TABC can do whatever the fuck they want.

it's kind of like the railroad commission.

or the PUC or ERCOT.

within 10 years Texas State Agencies will have these at their disposal.... just need to slap an aggy logo on the side.  you know they want to manage the fleet.  good for the revenue.

[Hagbard Celine 10,907]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

"Unvaccinated person" is a protected class?

Edited August 12, 2021 by Hagbard Celine

[Hagbard Celine 10,907]

Edited just now by Hagbard Celine

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,142]

2 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

So Fresa's and Launderette both said they were going to require vaccines for in-person dining.  Well, rumor is they just got a visit from TABC telling them they better not.

And I think that's real interesting.  Because if you keep up on decision out of the Supreme Court--and I do--you would've taken note of Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid from June, in which SCOTUS held that a regulation preventing a property owner from excluding people (in that case, union organizers) constituted a Fifth Amendment taking for which compensation was due.

So yeah--if one of those establishments wants to go to the mat, they have a real interesting case.

 

This is fucking unbelievable.  They said it was in response to a bill passed.  Don't those NOT take effect until September 1?

Edited August 12, 2021 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[Hagbard Celine 10,907]

2 hours ago, Updawg said:

But you are allowed to not sell cakes to gay people

The Texas Cake and Pastry Commission will be sending a van around shortly to administer justice onsite.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,142]

39 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Not a rumor.  Republicans showing their Big Government colors.  

https://austin.eater.com/2021/8/12/22622221/austin-restaurants-cant-require-proof-of-vaccine-liquor-license-pulled-tabc

 

EVERY fucking day my decision to leave Texas in 2019 is completely validated.

[Js1 85,513]

Curious how all these "you cant have vaccine mandates" will go when Amy Coney Barrett just denied to a request by University of Indiana students' to block UI's vaccine mandate for the fall 

[Paper_jam 831]

Are there even statutory or regulatory codes that give TABC the authority to consider or review a private businesses' internal rule about vaccines as a factor in whether or not an establishment can hold a liquor license? Most state agencies are terrified of taking any action that isn't explicitly authorized by statute--not just in terms of the general subject area for which they are authorized to regulate, but even in the scope of authority they have to request or consider additional information not directly related to the issuance or enforcement of permits, etc.

It would be like the Railroad Commission denying a drilling permit because RRC found out the operator was catching redfish that didn't pass the size limit.

Edit holy shit, from that article I should have read before posting:

"To ensure Texas businesses follow that rule, “each appropriate state agency” — in Launderette and Fresa’s case, the TABC — “will ensure businesses in this state comply,” according to the bill. These agencies can “require compliance [...] as a condition for a license, permit, or other state authorization necessary for conducting business in this state.” "

Looking forward to the state asking Exxon, Chevron, etc. about their vaccination policies for every permit and registration they apply for.  After all, if you're checking up on the little mom and pop restaurants, it's only fair to ask the big guys, right?

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Paper_jam

[tx 3 putt 77,315]

8 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

So Fresa's and Launderette both said they were going to require vaccines for in-person dining.  Well, rumor is they just got a visit from TABC telling them they better not.

And I think that's real interesting.  Because if you keep up on decision out of the Supreme Court--and I do--you would've taken note of Cedar Point Nursery v. Hassid from June, in which SCOTUS held that a regulation preventing a property owner from excluding people (in that case, union organizers) constituted a Fifth Amendment taking for which compensation was due.

So yeah--if one of those establishments wants to go to the mat, they have a real interesting case.

 

can they claim vaccinated only because of religious beliefs ?

[tx 3 putt 77,315]

trump / maga sinking abbott and desantis ............

[elfenix 34,331]

5 hours ago, Paper_jam said:

Are there even statutory or regulatory codes that give TABC the authority to consider or review a private businesses' internal rule about vaccines as a factor in whether or not an establishment can hold a liquor license? Most state agencies are terrified of taking any action that isn't explicitly authorized by statute--not just in terms of the general subject area for which they are authorized to regulate, but even in the scope of authority they have to request or consider additional information not directly related to the issuance or enforcement of permits, etc.

It would be like the Railroad Commission denying a drilling permit because RRC found out the operator was catching redfish that didn't pass the size limit.

Edit holy shit, from that article I should have read before posting:

"To ensure Texas businesses follow that rule, “each appropriate state agency” — in Launderette and Fresa’s case, the TABC — “will ensure businesses in this state comply,” according to the bill. These agencies can “require compliance [...] as a condition for a license, permit, or other state authorization necessary for conducting business in this state.” "

Looking forward to the state asking Exxon, Chevron, etc. about their vaccination policies for every permit and registration they apply for.  After all, if you're checking up on the little mom and pop restaurants, it's only fair to ask the big guys, right?

 

 

 

[elfenix 34,331]

6 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

 

This is fucking unbelievable.  They said it was in response to a bill passed.  Don't those NOT take effect until September 1?

Quote

SECTION 23.  This Act takes effect immediately if it
	receives a vote of two-thirds of all the members elected to each
	house, as provided by Section 39, Article III, Texas Constitution.
	If this Act does not receive the vote necessary for immediate
	effect, this Act takes effect September 1, 2021.

it was nearly unanimous so it's effective immediately. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by elfenix

[C-Man 27,254]

7 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

 

This is fucking unbelievable.  They said it was in response to a bill passed.  Don't those NOT take effect until September 1?

Forget it, Penelope. It's Texas(town).

[AnTiM 1,669]

14 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

I really don't know.  I suspect you could do that.  I'm just not sufficiently clear on the alcohol laws in Texas.

Many years ago when we owned a bar, I asked the local TABC agent if there was a list of basic rules to follow.  He extended his hand two feet above the table and said "Basically, the liquor laws of Texas make a stack this high, which means I can do whatever I want."  I doubt if that has changed.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,142]

5 hours ago, elfenix said:

it was nearly unanimous so it's effective immediately. 

Well, that is pretty shitty.  Dems need to organize in Texas.  

Seriously, Texas and Florida are leading the push to the bottom in the US.  Watching it 2 years removed from the state is disgusting.  

[safe sex 11,744]

I'm stuck here until 2023 unfortunately, but I am fucking gone the very day I'm able to leave.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

7 hours ago, AnTiM said:

Many years ago when we owned a bar, I asked the local TABC agent if there was a list of basic rules to follow.  He extended his hand two feet above the table and said "Basically, the liquor laws of Texas make a stack this high, which means I can do whatever I want."  I doubt if that has changed.

Counties and the state of Texas have used Texas liquor laws to basically say with respect to liquor that whatever they say goes since the republic of Texas days. If you want to sell liquor in Texas you have to play ball which means whatever the government official in your face says is the law, is the law. It’s a stupid system but it is what it is. 

[Updawg 2,286]

Kind of like when they tried to fine twin liquors $1billion. Or did stings on business travelers at the Dallas airport hotel bar.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20,471]