The Robert Mueller Investigation

[yaqdum 182]

1 minute ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

None of us will.

no, but my folk us was on them.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Reading the tea leaves, it appears there will be a significant development in the Mueller investigation by the end of the month. 

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

What "surgery" did he have?

[Pescado_Rojo 19,416]

If I'm Cohen there's no way I'd go under anesthesia right now...

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

3 minutes ago, Pokemon said:

These hearings are worthless if the Republicans behave like jackassses and subpoenas aren't issued. They'll just filibuster until the whole thing degrades.

Mueller needs to arrest somebody. That's what needs to happen.

I'll take Don Jr, Ivanka, Erik Prince, or Mike Pence at this point.  Assuming no dotard arrest.  And hell, throw in Eric and Melania as well.

[jimmyjazz 45,952]

4 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

If I'm Cohen there's no way I'd go under anesthesia right now...

[triplehorn 2,664]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Reading the tea leaves, it appears there will be a significant development in the Mueller investigation by the end of the month. 

Multiple indicators tend to support that.

In other news:

While what they are doing in no way should be ignored and has to be taken seriously, I detect a little embellishment driven by their own fear and buyer's remorse.

[Lagunamadre 1,975]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

What "surgery" did he have?

He's having his anus closed up, surgically. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

1 minute ago, triplehorn said:

While what they are doing in no way should be ignored and has to be taken seriously, I detect a little embellishment driven by their own fear and buyer's remorse.

The most effective way the Russia shit works on us is if we completely ignore its existence which we’ve been doing for a long time.

Mueller blowing the lid off their operation to the American public forces the Russians to exaggerate their influence because they can no longer credibly deny it. 

The Kremlin has never gone into a US presidential election when the American public was expecting them to interfere.  They either have to massively change tactics or back off because the investment isn’t worth the reward.  

However, the Russians will alway be pushing on the divisions and trying to polarize the population because that’s just what they do.

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

At this point, it seems the polarization has worked and I don't see how it's reversible.  30% of the country isn't going to wake up one day and just realize they were conned and change their minds.   They'll continue to go to their internet and social media bubbles and just get worse.  

[GRHorn 105]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Reading the tea leaves, it appears there will be a significant development in the Mueller investigation by the end of the month. 

1) What do you want to happen with Mueller investigation?

2) What do you actually expect to happen?

 

[Anastasis 23,469]

The root of the polarization problem is not Russia. It is us. We are a fundamentally broken society.  /happymonday. 

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The root of the polarization problem is not Russia. It is us. We are a fundamentally broken society.  /happymonday. 

Agree.  Russia put it on turboblast, but yes, we are fucked up.

[Lurch 5,930]

The root of the polarization problem is not Russia. It is us. We are a fundamentally broken society.  /happymonday. 

They’ve weaponized basic human tendencies and biases. Humans are emotionally flawed, of course. Always have been, always will be. Sadly, technology has enabled a highly efficient and effective way to exploit us.

I don’t know that we can fix this, but like climate change, some future generation is going to have to nut up and try.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

Just now, GRHorn said:

1) What do you want to happen with Mueller investigation?

2) What do you actually expect to happen?

What I want and expect are pretty much the same thing.

I want a detailed conclusive report on Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.  I want nothing sugar coated like the GOP has been doing with the, “the Russians attempted to interfere” and “no collusion!” because that’s horseshit.  The Russians absolutely interfered and there was coordination.

 I want Comey vindicated for publicly and forcefully blowing the whistle on Russia two years ago:

 

I don’t want Mueller to overturn the election or anything like that.  I want Mueller to give the American people enough information to defend themselves from attacks in the future.

[Anastasis 23,469]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I want Comey vindicated

Lulz.  Comey has a vested interest in deflecting his role in actually and measurably tilting the election to Trump.

[Anastasis 23,469]

5 minutes ago, Lurch said:

I don’t know that we can fix this, but like climate change, some future generation is going to have to nut up and try.

That's not how the death spiral works. 

[BrickHorn 18,234]

30 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

At this point, it seems the polarization has worked and I don't see how it's reversible.  30% of the country isn't going to wake up one day and just realize they were conned and change their minds.   They'll continue to go to their internet and social media bubbles and just get worse.  

You solve it by expanding the circle of “Us” to include all Americans and identifying a foreign “Them” for the Us to unite against.  The Russians will make a fine Them.  They certainly played that role well in the recent past. 

One thing Orwell got wrong is that a consistent foreign adversary isn’t necessarily a bad thing.  Turns out that without a common enemy to hate, Americans get bored and turn on themselves.  

Edited February 11, 2019 by BrickHorn

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

11 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

One thing Orwell got wrong is that a consistent foreign adversary isn’t necessarily a bad thing.  Turns out that without a common enemy to hate, Americans get bored and turn on themselves.  

We would have never landed on the moon and the Internet would be a fiction if it wasn’t for the Cold War. 

[BrickHorn 18,234]

53 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We would have never landed on the moon and the Internet would be a fiction if it wasn’t for the Cold War. 

Like rain on your wedding day.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Agree.  Russia put it on turboblast, but yes, we are fucked up.

Our society is fucked up because certain people in control of a certain party have been consistently lying and fooling people for going on 40 years now in order to enrich itself and set up barriers to losing its power. Plenty of dems have played along too, of course thanks to money and greed, just not nearly to the extent of the GOP. The middle class has been squeezed because that’s what certain people wanted to happen.

I remember a time  before there were “red” states and “blue” states and we didn’t identify ourselves as essentially sworn enemies, either “crips” or “bloods.” It wasn’t even all that long ago. Do you think all of that terminology just came along by accident? The rise of Fox News, right wing radio, elimination of the fairness doctrine, Citizens United. All of that just naturally and organically evolved?

The Russians are only a part of it. They saw an opportunity with Trump and took full advantage of it. But it was the system set up by the GOP that allowed it to even be possible. The owners of the GOP didn’t want trump, but once the base had made an overwhelming decision to support trump they adapted and manipulated trump just as sure as the Russians did.

If Jeb gets elected like the plan contemplated the tax cut scam still gets passed and Gorsuch and Cavanugh are still on the Supreme Court. The only difference is all the bullshit crap we have to deal with since a child is the president.

Yes we need to deal with trump and the Russians and get that cancer out. But beyond that, we need to recognize and deal with the fact that the GOP has been utterly corrupt for quite some time now, and probably needs to be completely eliminated with a new party breaking away from it and taking over the new opposition to the dems.

Edited February 12, 2019 by JimmyJames

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

16 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

 

The Russians are only a part of it. They saw an opportunity with Trump and took full advantage of it. But it was the system set up by the GOP that allowed it to even be possible. The owners of the GOP didn’t want trump, but once the base had made an overwhelming decision to support trump they adapted and manipulated trump just as sure as the Russians did..

A part of the Trump Russia conspiracy that is being overlooked is the interactions between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin during the GOP nomination.  

Almost all the secret Trump Tower Moscow negotiations were going on while Trump was trying to win the Republican nomination.  Who knows what the Kremlin was doing for Trump during that process.  

[Mdhorn 5,949]

4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

However, the Russians will alway be pushing on the divisions and trying to polarize the population because that’s just what they do.

ox does this daily on regular tv.

 

4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

What I want and expect are pretty much the same thing.

I want a detailed conclusive report on Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.  I want nothing sugar coated like the GOP has been doing with the, “the Russians attempted to interfere” and “no collusion!” because that’s horseshit.  The Russians absolutely interfered and there was coordination.

 I want Comey vindicated for publicly and forcefully blowing the whistle on Russia two years ago:

 

I don’t want Mueller to overturn the election or anything like that.  I want Mueller to give the American people enough information to defend themselves from attacks in the future.

There's no defense for the willfully ignorant or those that are doing fine, so everything's ok.  Glad civil rights didn't go in accordance to the latter group, but oh well.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

No shit, Mueller isn’t going to solve any of our problems.  

But he can give us some insight on how to better address it ourselves.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Mdhorn 5,949]

18 minutes ago, Pokemon said:

Rigging those primaries probably. Until their ultra-conformist body politic fell in line lock stock & barrel behind a front running dear leader, as per usual.

Trump defied polling nearly 1000% of the time. Nate Silver was noticing this but couldn't explain why.

The answer to why is they flat out stole the election. Using Russians to keep the conspiracy a secret and withstand legal scrutiny once discovered. Collusion it most certainly was, and even the most ardent Trump supporter by now has to see that, if they're not insane, senile or comatose.

Guilliani admitted it. And he's apparently insane AND senile. 

The followers of the Right don't care if the polls are rigged as long as its in their favor.  

[Hornius Emeritus 12,462]

5 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

 

One thing Orwell got wrong is that a consistent foreign adversary isn’t necessarily a bad thing.  Turns out that without a common enemy to hate, Americans get bored and turn on themselves.  

 

That reminds me of an old quote about early Texas:  " "Every steamboat that comes in [into Galveston] from New Orleans brings volunteers, and unfortunately not having Mexicans to fight with, have commenced to fighting among themselves."

------- William Bollaert, writing in his journal, 1842 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

[CowboyFred 1,151]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

[Bama Chick 28,596]

The fact that we’re even reducing the results of a law enforcement investigation to “version of the facts” says a lot about where we are as a people.

Good grief.

[TwiceHorn 31,470]

6 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

The fact that we’re even reducing the results of a law enforcement investigation to “version of the facts” says a lot about where we are as a people.

Good grief.

Despite our contempt for the accused and targets of the investigation, we should not lose sight of the fact that even Mueller and his minions are law enforcement and probably entitled to some degree of skepticism.  It is an adversarial system, after all.

As a people, we have generally gone entirely too far in unquestioningly accepting law enforcement's version of the facts.

Edited February 12, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Despite our contempt for the accused and targets of the investigation, we should not lose sight of the fact that even Mueller and his minions are law enforcement and probably entitled to some degree of skepticism.  It is an adversarial system, after all.

As a people, we have generally gone entirely too far in unquestioningly accepting law enforcement's version of the facts.

Indeed, Mueller isn’t the minster of truth but when compared to the alternative versions of facts, he’s the best we got.  

[TwiceHorn 31,470]

3 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Indeed, Mueller isn’t the minster of truth but when compared to the alternative versions of facts, he’s the best we got.  

I am comforted by the fact that he has significant private sector (read defense attorney) experience in his background and hasn't been implicated in any prosecutorial misconduct, either directly or while a US Attorney or government lawyer.  The FBI was relatively scandal-free during his tenure, as well.  So, yeah, I would agree that he is among the best.

[Jhawk 1,075]

What do you guys make of Schiff coming out and saying that he doesn't think Mueller will go far enough?  Almost like he is hedging as the conclusion starts to draw near.

[bad_teammate 13,195]

I think that's a fair conclusion given the fact that Mueller is a Republican employee of the executive branch whose scope of investigation is limited as is his range of actions in response.

[Pig Bellmont 8,718]

2 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

What do you guys make of Schiff coming out and saying that he doesn't think Mueller will go far enough?  Almost like he is hedging as the conclusion starts to draw near.

I don’t have the benefit of context for Schiff’s comments, but I’d guess it’s because oversight of the president’s high crimes and misdemeanors exceeds the subject matter of Mueller’s mandate. 

[shnsajax 3,591]

4 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

What do you guys make of Schiff coming out and saying that he doesn't think Mueller will go far enough?  Almost like he is hedging as the conclusion starts to draw near.

I think he just wants to ensure that Trump is exposed financially as we all know Trump will do everything he can to kill any report.

[Jhawk 1,075]

If you believe that Trump is going to run for reelection and that he does actually want to be a two term president then blocking the reports, which everyone wants made public, would be suicide.  I found it funny that Schiff didn't think the investigation is going deep enough, they are arresting people for shit that happened 15 years ago that wasn't even tied to the investigation.  Mueller also has a massively broad scope for the investigation (presumably why it has taken over 2 years).

Schiff's position is a little silly, especially if the report is made public.  If the report finds the same that the house and senate did in that there was interference but no collusion then the threat of a bombshell report will have been more powerful than getting to the bottom of the truth for him.  A clean report for the trump campaign and Trump is going to be pretty chesty and head into 2020 with a massive amount of momentum.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

15 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

What do you guys make of Schiff coming out and saying that he doesn't think Mueller will go far enough?  Almost like he is hedging as the conclusion starts to draw near.

Mueller's scope is limited and has oversight from a Trump appointed AG and DAG. 

Schiff's can look at anything without the same restrictions as Mueller. 

 

[David Dennison 18,860]

1 minute ago, Jhawk said:

If you believe that Trump is going to run for reelection and that he does actually want to be a two term president then blocking the reports, which everyone wants made public, would be suicide.  I found it funny that Schiff didn't think the investigation is going deep enough, they are arresting people for shit that happened 15 years ago that wasn't even tied to the investigation.  Mueller also has a massively broad scope for the investigation (presumably why it has taken over 2 years).

Schiff's position is a little silly, especially if the report is made public.  If the report finds the same that the house and senate did in that there was interference but no collusion then the threat of a bombshell report will have been more powerful than getting to the bottom of the truth for him.  A clean report for the trump campaign and Trump is going to be pretty chesty and head into 2020 with a massive amount of momentum.

The Trump Campaign is already tainted. His campaign chief is going to prison.

[Pig Bellmont 8,718]

Just now, David Dennison said:

The Trump Campaign is already tainted. His campaign chief is going to prison.

And if anyone believes his crimes charged have nothing to do with the campaign- even including the recent revelations that he lied to Mueller about handing over proprietary polling data to Russian intelligence in 2016, then I really don’t know what to tell you. 

[Jhawk 1,075]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Mueller's scope is limited and has oversight from a Trump appointed AG and DAG. 

Schiff's can look at anything without the same restrictions as Mueller. 

 

Barr already said that he thinks the report should be public.  As mentioned in my subsequent post, Trump suppressing the report would be suicide.  What is he going to do?  Fire the AG who was just approved?  Also, given the state of our politics, I guarantee that the first person who doesn't like trump who get's their hands on the report will leak it.  Especially if that is Schiff or Waters.

[Pescado_Rojo 19,416]

Your concern trolling is noted

[Jhawk 1,075]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The Trump Campaign is already tainted. His campaign chief is going to prison.

His campaign chief of 2 months in the last election?

2 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

And if anyone believes his crimes charged have nothing to do with the campaign- even including the recent revelations that he lied to Mueller about handing over proprietary polling data to Russian intelligence in 2016, then I really don’t know what to tell you. 

So crimes from the early 2000's and bank fraud on a mortgage for his condo from 2014 are related to Trump?  This is the problem, in a haste to make something happen Mueller threw everything against the wall.  He has 18 charges against him (can't remember how many stuck) but almost none of them have anything to do with the election.  They valued "put him away for longer" over "put him away for things DIRECTLY related to the campaign."  Which means sides will see what they want to see.  Dems will say "trump's manager is in jail for 30 years" while repubs will see "He is in jail for reasons unrelated to the collusion investigation."  Both are right.  No one wins.  Trump still unscathed.

[Jograves 357]

3 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

His campaign chief of 2 months in the last election?

So crimes from the early 2000's and bank fraud on a mortgage for his condo from 2014 are related to Trump?  This is the problem, in a haste to make something happen Mueller threw everything against the wall.  He has 18 charges against him (can't remember how many stuck) but almost none of them have anything to do with the election.  They valued "put him away for longer" over "put him away for things DIRECTLY related to the campaign."  Which means sides will see what they want to see.  Dems will say "trump's manager is in jail for 30 years" while repubs will see "He is in jail for reasons unrelated to the collusion investigation."  Both are right.  No one wins.  Trump still unscathed.

He started working for the campaign in March as convention manager. He was promoted in May to campaign manager and chief strategist. He was fired in August. 

Stop lying about the 2 months. 

[Pig Bellmont 8,718]

4 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

His campaign chief of 2 months in the last election?

So crimes from the early 2000's and bank fraud on a mortgage for his condo from 2014 are related to Trump?  This is the problem, in a haste to make something happen Mueller threw everything against the wall.  He has 18 charges against him (can't remember how many stuck) but almost none of them have anything to do with the election.  They valued "put him away for longer" over "put him away for things DIRECTLY related to the campaign."  Which means sides will see what they want to see.  Dems will say "trump's manager is in jail for 30 years" while repubs will see "He is in jail for reasons unrelated to the collusion investigation."  Both are right.  No one wins.  Trump still unscathed.

Please do more research on Manafort’s indictments, especially the DC criminal case and the charges he pled guilty to. I don’t have time to argue why his indebtedness to Ukrainian oligarchs and dissemination of campaign data to Russian intelligence is related. 

[David Dennison 18,860]

6 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

His campaign chief of 2 months in the last election?

So crimes from the early 2000's and bank fraud on a mortgage for his condo from 2014 are related to Trump?  This is the problem, in a haste to make something happen Mueller threw everything against the wall.  He has 18 charges against him (can't remember how many stuck) but almost none of them have anything to do with the election.  They valued "put him away for longer" over "put him away for things DIRECTLY related to the campaign."  Which means sides will see what they want to see.  Dems will say "trump's manager is in jail for 30 years" while repubs will see "He is in jail for reasons unrelated to the collusion investigation."  Both are right.  No one wins.  Trump still unscathed.

He's also accused of lying to the Special Counsel. I wonder what he's lying about.

Trump has been greatly damaged by all of this.

[Pig Bellmont 8,718]

Next Jhawk argument is that Roger Stone’s indictment of lying to Congress about the campaign directing his communications with Wikileaks also has nothing to do with the campaign 

[Jhawk 1,075]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

He's also accused of lying to the Special Counsel. I wonder what he's lying about.

Trump has been greatly damaged by all of this.

According to Rassmussen his approval rating is higher than ever.