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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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deech

deech 2275

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There is no value in testifying for Cohen.  It will just fuck his deal with Mueller if he fucks up.  Senate Intelligence Committee can reach conclusions without Cohen because they are all about doing a thorough investigation and not sucking the Presidents cock. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Cohen is a career criminal and a fucking joke. 

The only reason he wants to testify is PR and revenge on Trump before it’s off to the slammer. 

Fuck him.  

If he’s got something important to say to the American people, he can clear it with Mueller and make a public statement.

I hate this asshole.

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bolverk

bolverk 29672

Posted
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19 minutes ago, deech said:

There is no value in testifying for Cohen.  It will just fuck his deal with Mueller if he fucks up.  Senate Intelligence Committee can reach conclusions without Cohen because they are all about doing a thorough investigation and not sucking the Presidents cock. 

Unless my sarcasm meter is completely broken, you mean the House Intelligence Committee, correct?

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

There is plenty of evidence of collusion.

You should drop these guys a line then.

Quote

Democratic Senate investigators who spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity did not dispute Burr's characterizations, but said they lacked context.

 

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29907

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1 hour ago, Fozzz said:

Apparently a 2+ year investigation is simply not enough to find any evidence of collusion.  Gonna have to wait at least five years before we know anything.

 

 

Do you believe that the "adoption" meeting with Russians which all American participants have lied about is not evidence of collusion? The president dictated a press release for his son that was also a lie about this meeting.

Do you believe the numerous stories emerging from the Mueller investigation are not evidence of collusion?'

What is your opinion of the President of the United States insisting on meetings with Putin where no American is allowed to be present to hear what is discussed? What is your opinion of Trump lying about the South American meeting?

This all seem normal to you? No evidence here to raise even suspicion?

Please don't answer that all you know is what the GOP senator or the senate committee tell you.

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SmokeyTheBear

SmokeyTheBear 5562

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19 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The democrats have already blown their impeachment opportunity.  If they started the process right now, it would drag out for months with hearings and evidence.  

By the time 2020 rolls around the excuse will be “let the voters decide”. 

Maybe thats the play though. Impeachment takes a long time and usually becomes problematic politically for the attacking party. If they can do legit investigations for the next couple years to inform the populace, let the populace "impeach" and then indict Trump. 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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24 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Maybe thats the play though. Impeachment takes a long time and usually becomes problematic politically for the attacking party. If they can do legit investigations for the next couple years to inform the populace, let the populace "impeach" and then indict Trump. 

From a criminal/prosecutorial standpoint, I've always maintained this is way bigger than Trump.  I think the same holds true for what work needs to be done - it's about way more than impeaching Trump.  When Mitch McConnell reacts to HR1 2019 - House Anti-Corruption bill - as a "power grab", you know you have your work cut out in the form of investigations to begin to define the depth and boundaries of peak corruption and corrosion of our political/electoral system today.

Impeaching Trump now doesn't do a whole lot.  He's already outfoxed and incompetent.  Let Mitch and the GOP keep their wagon hitched to this two bit mobster as more and more gets revealed in detail leading up to 2020.  They will fall too as a result.  Rest assured that when Trump is out of office, whether that be sooner or later, he's going to prison along with his Trump Org children.

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SmokeyTheBear

SmokeyTheBear 5562

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Agree that this is far bigger than Trump. IMO, Trump was just one of the weapons unleashed on us. As a country we still have yet to define an "attack" and a response to an "attack" in this modern age of cyber warfare. We need to be deliberate in finding every tentacle of corruption adversaries have set up in our government. I'm hoping that with outlining these tentacles, we will be able to finally get rid of Citizens United and other failed policies that allow for systematic and weaponized influence from bad actors both domestic (O&G, NRA, Big Pharm) and international (Russia, China). 

All this made more difficult due to the fact that the current bad actors have players within the system to slow down those looking to fix the problems. 

Edited by SmokeyTheBear
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31470

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Yeah, Trump as merely a useful idiot, is kind of a distraction from the Russian interference, which is a big issue unto itself.

Also, Trumpco has a lot of general purpose criminality (ala Manafort) unrelated to and likely mostly significantly predating the Mueller investigation.  Hopefully the statute of limitations doesn't run on this stuff before Teh Donald leaves office.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18860

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4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, Trump as merely a useful idiot, is kind of a distraction from the Russian interference, which is a big issue unto itself.

Also, Trumpco has a lot of general purpose criminality (ala Manafort) unrelated to and likely mostly significantly predating the Mueller investigation.  Hopefully the statute of limitations doesn't run on this stuff before Teh Donald leaves office.

Aren't there ways to toll the statute if a prosecutor needs to?

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31470

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12 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Aren't there ways to toll the statute if a prosecutor needs to?

Filing an indictment or information would be the classic one.  I don't think anyone in the DOJ is going to do that.

Near as I can tell, a sealed indictment would toll the statute and not present any of the issues associated with indicting a sitting President that make an unsealed indictment problematic.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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I don’t know what takes longer—-the mueller collusion investigation or the Dallas internal affairs toxicology report about officers shooting innocent black men at home.  

I’ve gotten a Dapper Dan shipment faster than this.  

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18860

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4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I don’t know what takes longer—-the mueller collusion investigation or the Dallas internal affairs toxicology report about officers shooting innocent black men at home.  

I’ve gotten a Dapper Dan shipment faster than this.  

Well, when the main conduit of the campaign's collusion with the Russians keeps lying to the special counsel, it's going to drag things out for a bit.

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NWBuck

NWBuck 8565

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8 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I don’t know what takes longer—-the mueller collusion investigation or the Dallas internal affairs toxicology report about officers shooting innocent black men at home.  

I’ve gotten a Dapper Dan shipment faster than this.  

If only you were a Fop man.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31470

Posted
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19 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

 

Rather than twitter, probably best to read the Order, here, https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.190597/gov.uscourts.dcd.190597.509.0_2.pdf

Berman made five specific findings about what OSC proved and failed to prove about Manafort's lies.  At pp. 3-4.

Dummy, I can actually cut text from that.  Here are the findings to read tea leaves over:

I.OSC has established by a preponderance of the evidence that defendant intentionally made false statements to the FBI, the OSC, and the grand jury concerning the payment by Firm A to the law firm, a matter that was material to the investigation. See United States v. Moore, 612 F.3d 698, 701 (D.C. Cir. 2010).

II.OSC has failed to establish by a preponderance of the evidence that on October 16, 2018, defendant intentionally made false statements concerning Kilimnik’s role in the obstruction of justice conspiracy.

III.OSC has established by a preponderance of the evidence that the defendant intentionally made multiple false statements to the FBI, the OSC, and the grand jury concerning matters that were material to the investigation: his interactions and communications with Kilimnik.

IV.OSC has established by a preponderance of the evidence that on October 5, 2018, the defendant intentionally made false statements that were material to another DOJ investigation.

V.OSC has failed to establish by a preponderance of the evidence that on October 16, 2018, defendant intentionally made a false statement concerning his contacts with the administration.

The sentencing memos will be interesting.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31470

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10 minutes ago, retread said:

 

Everything I read about Manafort tells me he would lie about any damn thing because that's just the way he is.  He doesn't think he'll get caught and apparently has a tenuous relationship with any truth that impacts negatively on his self image.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Everything I read about Manafort tells me he would lie about any damn thing because that's just the way he is.  He doesn't think he'll get caught and apparently has a tenuous relationship with any truth that impacts negatively on his self image.

I was just texting with a friend on this, he said he wished Manafort would cooperate more.  My reply was:

“I honestly think he’s incapable of being honest.  His cooperation would be worthless without hard evidence.”

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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42 minutes ago, retread said:

Manafort counting on those pardons

 

I’m pretty sure he pled guilty to state law crimes as well as part of his deal. If true and I’m him I don’t want a pardon, because then its off to the state pen instead of the custody of the feds.  Both are terrible of course but state prison is much much worse to a significant degree. 

If I’m wrong criminal lawyers please chime in. 

Edited by JimmyJames
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