The Robert Mueller Investigation

[Ted Lange 16142]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That means Paul Ryan, Burr, McConnell, and Nunes were told. 

Along with Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, and Warner

“There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump,” McCarthy (R-Calif.) said

Some of the lawmakers laughed at McCarthy’s comment. Then McCarthy quickly added: “Swear to God.”

Ryan instructed his Republican lieutenants to keep the conversation private, saying: “No leaks. . . . This is how we know we’re a real family here.”

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

 

 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Also, re the debate of is/isn't crosshairs.  I feel like that should take a backseat to an instagram post saying "man, is my judge a dumb bitch or what?"  That message could be surrounded by hearts and rainbows and it would be the dumbest thing I'd seen in 20 years.

[Pig Bellmont 8738]

26 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

 

 

Yup. Here is the docket text:

Minimum the gag order expands- worse is he gets imprisoned. Judge Jackson is not someone he should be fucking with. 

[jimmyjazz 46130]

[BrickHorn 18285]

18 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Also, re the debate of is/isn't crosshairs.  I feel like that should take a backseat to an instagram post saying "man, is my judge a dumb bitch or what?"  That message could be surrounded by hearts and rainbows and it would be the dumbest thing I'd seen in 20 years.

That post was a blatant dog whistle.  Not only the crosshairs.  Stone also used the word “hitman” and requested that his audience help him “fight for his life.”  That is incredibly suggestive language, directed at a bunch of riled-up simpletons who own small armories and harbor delusions that they are charged with protecting America from a liberal conspiracy.   

Stone knew what he was doing, and what he did revealed what a dangerous psychopath he is.  

[Brisketexan 105332]

The political theater aside -- as a trial lawyer, watching the Roger Stone Step On Your Dick in Federal Court Extravaganza is fucking popcorn-worthy as hell.  When you have a minute entry in your name from a Federal Court and the words "show cause" are in there.....that is never, ever, ever a good thing.  It's usually a very, very, very bad thing.

Dis gon be gud.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13587]

1 hour ago, Ted Lange said:

“There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump,” McCarthy (R-Calif.) said

Some of the lawmakers laughed at McCarthy’s comment. Then McCarthy quickly added: “Swear to God.”

Ryan instructed his Republican lieutenants to keep the conversation private, saying: “No leaks. . . . This is how we know we’re a real family here.”

It can't be stated enough how damning Ryan's reaction is. His reaction is of a man who already knows. There's no "that's preposterous!" or inquisitive "why do you say that?" AND there's no "well, if you really think that, you should contact tje FBI". Instead, the Republican House Majority Leader tells his colleagues to keep this on the down low.

[deech 2291]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The political theater aside -- as a trial lawyer, watching the Roger Stone Step On Your Dick in Federal Court Extravaganza is fucking popcorn-worthy as hell.  When you have a minute entry in your name from a Federal Court and the words "show cause" are in there.....that is never, ever, ever a good thing.  It's usually a very, very, very bad thing.

Dis gon be gud.

Even if the judge could get past the violation with the cross hairs and Instagram post and give him credit for his formal apology, the sheer stupidity of the Infowars attempt to call this all a non story despite a media contact order in place is breath taking. I mean he couldn't even shut up after having to sign the formal apology and being yelled at for at least thirty minutes by his counsel and being read the riot act. 

I can't help but think his attorneys formally ask to withdraw. 

[deech 2291]

15 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

It can't be stated enough how damning Ryan's reaction is. His reaction is of a man who already knows. There's no "that's preposterous!" or inquisitive "why do you say that?" AND there's no "well, if you really think that, you should contact tje FBI". Instead, the Republican House Majority Leader tells his colleagues to keep this on the down low.

And yet they tape has been out for way too long and it has never moved the needle. 

[Ted Lange 16142]

It was just treasonroom talk....

[retread 2951]

20 years ago, those McCarthy comments would have placed everyone in that room in deep shit. Same goes for the countless words uttered by DOTUS.

Lester Holt interview, Russians in the Oval Office, Helsinki w Putin, etc.

Doesn't even move the needle. We're so screwed.

[SquishMitten 10435]

7 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

Since he has prejudiced the judge against him, can he argue that to get a new judge? Or is that not an option? I am just trying to see if there was a reason for this stupidity that might be him being sly as a fox.

 

No. That would allow every defendant to openly threaten their judge, get reassigned, threaten the new judge, rinse and repeat indefinitely. 

[Brisketexan 105332]

9 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

No. That would allow every defendant to openly threaten their judge, get reassigned, threaten the new judge, rinse and repeat indefinitely. 

And yes, this.

The informal rule in play here is "you made your bed, now lie in it."  If the "prejudice" is created by the party, he isn't going to get any relief for it.  Which is why it's OLYMPIC-LEVEL STUPID TO PISS OFF YOUR JUDGE.

[TwiceHorn 31535]

Setting aside for a moment Stone's abject idiocy, I am always a bit wary of parties gaming the judge-selection lottery.

I have seen an allusion to Mueller stating that Stone's case is "related" to the "hacker's case," which I am sure that it is in some respect, but I haven't seen the statement and can't quickly find the applicable law.

Anyone have any extra information?

[jimmyjazz 46130]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

And yes, this.

The informal rule in play here is "you made your bed, now lie in it."  If the "prejudice" is created by the party, he isn't going to get any relief for it.  Which is why it's OLYMPIC-LEVEL STUPID TO PISS OFF YOUR JUDGE.

There's also the inherent presumption that a particular judge would be incapable of setting aside bias to rule in an impartial manner.  Now, I get it -- that takes some serious self awareness, not to mention a moral compass that a lot of us might not possess -- but it's not unheard of and it kinda fits the job description.

[suddenly shaggy 929]

Mueller slapped the GRU operatives and Wikileaks with subpoenas. The evidence in those subpoenas revealed clandestine communications directly with Roger Stone. Other sources have said it was about the information in the hacks and the timing of the release of that information (can't find that offhand again at this second). 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/15/politics/roger-stone-wikileaks/index.html

The cases are as directly related as can be. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by suddenly shaggy

[TwiceHorn 31535]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

There's also the inherent presumption that a particular judge would be incapable of setting aside bias to rule in an impartial manner.  Now, I get it -- that takes some serious self awareness, not to mention a moral compass that a lot of us might not possess -- but it's not unheard of and it kinda fits the job description.

Your observation is very accurate.  A whole lot of training to be a lawyer, though, is "divorcing" oneself from the facts and applying the law in a "mechanical" fashion, which does take the "moral compass" out of it to a degree.  That's not always easy to do and personal biases do seep through on occasion, but it's much easier to be a "legal mechanic" at the district court level than an appeals court, in most cases.  And of course the "mechanical fashion" is ultimately a fiction, but it does apply to about 80% or more of a district judge's work.  This is why it isn't worth getting too wound up about the politics of district court appointees.

[TwiceHorn 31535]

7 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

Mueller slapped the GRU operatives and Wikileaks with subpoenas. The evidence in those subpoenas revealed clandestine communications directly with Roger Stone. Other sources have said it was about the information in the hacks and the timing of the release of that information (can't find that offhand again at this second). 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/15/politics/roger-stone-wikileaks/index.html

The cases are as directly related as can be. 

Not sure that would be sufficient to make a civil case directly related, but I don;t know and can't find the standard in criminal cases.

Probably more importantly, we haven't really seen Jackson in action in a Mueller case, so we don't know what she's really like.  Saying she's an Obama appointee is meaningless.

Edited February 19, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[SquishMitten 10435]

Considering his attorneys filed an apology and most certainly told him to shut the fuck up... I'd be absolutely shocked if they were willing to use that in an attempt to force the judge to recuse herself. Judges do NOT look kindly on those requests even when there are somewhat legitimate concerns over prejudice. It is in effect questioning the very basis of their character and fitness to be a judge. Any attorney that expects to appear before that judge in the future would not be doing themselves any favors. 

[triplehorn 2664]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Not sure that would be sufficient to make a civil case directly related, but I don;t know and can't find the standard in criminal cases.

I'm missing the civil case part.  Stone was indicted by Mueller on one count of obstruction of an official proceeding, five counts of false statements, and one count of witness tampering.

[Fudge Nuggets 19223]

1 hour ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Instead, the Republican House Majority Leader tells his colleagues to keep this on the down low.

And decided to “retire” shortly thereafter.  Hmmmmmmmmm.

[TwiceHorn 31535]

7 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

I'm missing the civil case part.  Stone was indicted by Mueller on one count of obstruction of an official proceeding, five counts of false statements, and one count of witness tampering.

There is a standard for calling a civil case related to another one, which may result in assigning them to the same judge or even consolidation of parts or the whole of both cases into one.  Typically related cases involve common parties and legal or factual issues.  So far, the allegation is related subpoenas.

There is probably a standard somewhere in the federal rules for criminal cases. I don't know that it is.

[Pig Bellmont 8738]

49 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Setting aside for a moment Stone's abject idiocy, I am always a bit wary of parties gaming the judge-selection lottery.

I have seen an allusion to Mueller stating that Stone's case is "related" to the "hacker's case," which I am sure that it is in some respect, but I haven't seen the statement and can't quickly find the applicable law.

Anyone have any extra information?

The judge’s order re case assignment quoted the relevant authority and local criminal rules

[Gap03 3315]

53 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

There's also the inherent presumption that a particular judge would be incapable of setting aside bias to rule in an impartial manner.  Now, I get it -- that takes some serious self awareness, not to mention a moral compass that a lot of us might not possess -- but it's not unheard of and it kinda fits the job description.

I can see why Stone and his buds might be skeptical, though - case in point, this guy - 

You reap what you sow, I guess.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

2 hours ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

 

 

[Yuk 1562]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/politics/trump-investigations.html

One of Mr. Trump’s lawyer also reached out that summer to the attorneys for two of his former aides — Paul J. Manafort and Mr. Flynn — to discuss possible pardons. The discussions raised questions about whether the president was willing to offer pardons to influence their decisions about whether to plead guilty and cooperate in the Mueller investigation.

Um... talk about burying the lede.

[Pig Bellmont 8738]

Schiff’s obstruction hearings should get interesting. 

[TwiceHorn 31535]

1 hour ago, Pig Bellmont said:

The judge’s order re case assignment quoted the relevant authority and local criminal rules

So there is an order or finding on it?  Got a link?  Not that big a deal, but I'm always wary of gaming the presiding judge.  I don't put that much stock in it (other than trying to avoid the McBrydes, Shabazzes, and Reals of the world), but if someone is trying to manipulate the identity of the judge presiding, I assume that they have their reasons.

[Pig Bellmont 8738]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

So there is an order or finding on it?  Got a link?  Not that big a deal, but I'm always wary of gaming the presiding judge.  I don't put that much stock in it (other than trying to avoid the McBrydes, Shabazzes, and Reals of the world), but if someone is trying to manipulate the identity of the judge presiding, I assume that they have their reasons.

 

[TwiceHorn 31535]

Ah, thank you.  Out of rep.  Glad this has been hashed out rather than just resulting from internal procedures.

[AUinHsv 579]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

The political theater aside -- as a trial lawyer, watching the Roger Stone Step On Your Dick in Federal Court Extravaganza is fucking popcorn-worthy as hell.  When you have a minute entry in your name from a Federal Court and the words "show cause" are in there.....that is never, ever, ever a good thing.  It's usually a very, very, very bad thing.

Dis gon be gud.

I like the way you sum it up

[retread 2951]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[retread 2951]

Has anyone said explicitly that the counter-intel investigation of Trump has been closed? I don't think I've heard that stated anywhere.

[Biff Tannen 45735]

10 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

As if we needed more reasons.  String him up with the others.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3 minutes ago, retread said:

Has anyone said explicitly that the counter-intel investigation of Trump has been closed? I don't think I've heard that stated anywhere.

I don’t think the closing of counterintelligence investigations get announced.  

They rarely ever produce criminal indictments but they do spark criminal investigations which lead to criminal indictments.

[triplehorn 2664]

That volcanic twitter meltdown Trump had Sunday night into yesterday morning?

He may have caught wind of this NYT piece that dropped this morning:

 

Intimidation, Pressure and Humiliation: Inside Trump’s Two-Year War on the Investigations Encircling Him

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by triplehorn

[Chooky 13319]

Man, when shit was normal a lot of this would seem sinister and alarming.  Trump sure is lucky nothing matters anymore.  

[notre dame joe 196]

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

There is a standard for calling a civil case related to another one, which may result in assigning them to the same judge or even consolidation of parts or the whole of both cases into one.  Typically related cases involve common parties and legal or factual issues.  So far, the allegation is related subpoenas.

There is probably a standard somewhere in the federal rules for criminal cases. I don't know that it is.

sounds like the proper way to forum shop.

 

I thought of another example of pop off strategy.  The Pharma Bro  Shrekli didn't beat the rap, but he tried the case on social media and got a servable sentence from being convicted only on some charges.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Celery Man 20996]

seems aggy

[Chad Fuck 17772]

seems aggy

In the “sheep fucker” way? Or the “sister-cousin-wife” way?

[retread 2951]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I don’t think the closing of counterintelligence investigations get announced.  

They rarely ever produce criminal indictments but they do spark criminal investigations which lead to criminal indictments.

Maybe I'm just reading more into it than I should, but, in his interviews, McCabe seems to be saying that there were several red flags having to do with DOTUS. Things beyond the public statements that we've all heard.

He said the the concern had been building for a while, and the Comey firing was the event that pushed it over the edge. Hope they've got the goods on him.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Just now, retread said:

Maybe I'm just reading more into it than I should, but, in his interviews, McCabe seems to be saying that there were several red flags having to do with DOTUS. Things beyond the public statements that we've all heard.

He said the the concern had been building for a while, and the Comey firing was the event that pushed it over the edge. Hope they've got the goods on him.

The original counterintelligence investigation in Summer 2016 was to protect the Trump campaign from Russian penetration.  No doubt there were many facts found that helped lead to McCabe opening the new one in Trump himself.

[triplehorn 2664]

The moment he realizes he's actually fucked.

 

Hardening the structure of the investigation says a lot about what they suspected (or already could prove) about Trump.

[Atx71 146]

23 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

The moment he realizes he's actually fucked.

 

Hardening the structure of the investigation says a lot about what they suspected (or already could prove) about Trump.

Pence biding his time. I wonder if Mother calls him Father President during sexy time? 

[Francisco 2.0 32428]

 

[brown water 3778]

It's right next to mine big boy 

 

[Chooky 13319]

I don't believe for one second that Mike Pence's facial expression changed.