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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
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Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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suddenly shaggy

suddenly shaggy 929

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That's about the 500th time someone has declared that Mueller would be submitting his report in the last 3 months. Last week, Ken Dilanian went to the mat with Seth Abramson that the report would be issued last Friday. 

The media needs to stop talking to the Trump camp. They are voluminous liars. They need to start publicly burning those sources when they repeatedly lie to them. 

Mueller re-authorized the grand jury for 6 months and postponed a bunch of sentencing hearings. 

This may be a status report for Barr, but Mueller isn't done unless Barr is shutting him down. 

Edited by suddenly shaggy
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Jiggy-Z

Jiggy-Z 3432

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9 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

That's about the 500th time someone has declared that Mueller would be submitting his report in the last 3 months. Last week, Ken Dilanian went to the mat with Seth Abramson that the report would be issued last Friday. 

The media needs to stop talking to the Trump camp. They are voluminous liars. They need to start publicly burning those sources when they repeatedly lie to them. 

Mueller re-authorized the grand jury for 6 months and postponed a bunch of sentencing hearings. 

This may be a status report for Barr, but Mueller isn't done unless Barr is shutting him down. 

Agree.  Dangling a carrot of completion only to have it taken away lends to the narrative of "why not done?"  and makes Mueller investigation look disorganized and "governmental".

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bolverk

bolverk 29672

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4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s possible Mueller has completed the limited parameters of his investigation. 

“2016 Russian election interference and coordination with the Trump campaign.”

That doesn’t mean he’s completed the related and subsequent criminal prosecutions.

That seems to be heavily implied in this report:

For close watchers of the federal courthouse and the Mueller team, small changes have added up in recent weeks.

On Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday last week, special counsel's office employees carried boxes and pushed a cart full of files out of their office -- an unusual move that could foreshadow a hand-off of legal work.

At the same time, the Mueller prosecutors' workload appears to be dwindling. Four of Mueller's 17 prosecutors have ended their tenures with the office, with most returning to other roles in the Justice Department.

And the grand jury that Mueller's prosecutors used to return indictments of longtime Trump confidant Roger Stone, former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, and several Russians hasn't apparently convened since January 24 the day it approved the criminal charges against Stone.

Even with these signs of a wrap up, the DC US Attorney's office has stepped in to work on cases that may continue longer than Mueller is the special counsel.

That office has joined onto some of the Mueller's team's casework, including the cases against Stone, a Russian social media propaganda conspiracy, and in an ongoing foreign government-owned company's fight against a grand jury subpoena.

Mueller and his prosecutors are still reporting to work as frequently as ever -- with some even coming in on recent snow days and Presidents' Day. But also visiting them more often than ever before are the prosecutors from the DC US Attorney's Office and others in the Justice Department who've worked on the Mueller cases.

In one court case, against Concord Management for its alleged support for the social media conspiracy prosecutors told a judge in January there's still a related "matter occurring before the grand jury."

In other cases, including Manafort's, the Mueller team has made heavy redactions to its recent public court filings, including to protect pending investigations and people who haven't been charged with crimes.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/20/politics/special-counsel-conclusion-announcement/index.html

 

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Dertyberd

Dertyberd 394

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21 minutes ago, retread said:

 

That's bullshit if Congress only gets a summary.  They need the whole thing if they're to do a proper investigation.  Barr is going to fuck this thing, unless Mueller has already handed off absolutely everything that needs to be prosecuted.  I can only pray for the latter.  

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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We’re only going to get a summary with conclusions.  It’s unrealistic to expect Mueller to compromise sources and methods.

I expect a Mueller report for public consumption to look similar to the USIC assessment of Russian interference into the 2016 election except more damning to Trump and his band of idiots. 

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

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Dertyberd

Dertyberd 394

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I understand the not compromising of sources and methods.  I also think the gang of 8 or whatever part of Congress who regularly sees the unredacted shit should be making the call as well.  The information coming out of a hand picked Trump AG with a questionable past doesn't really conjure up supreme public confidence.  Sure he's better than most, but I guess Trump is winning the game of destroying trust in our institutions, especially in his court/justice picks.  Fucking hell I'm ready for this to be over with.  What a dark time we are living through.   

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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2 minutes ago, Dertyberd said:

I understand the not compromising of sources and methods.  I also think the gang of 8 or whatever part of Congress who regularly sees the unredacted shit should be making the call as well.  The information coming out of a hand picked Trump AG with a questionable past doesn't really conjure up supreme public confidence.  Sure he's better than most, but I guess Trump is winning the game of destroying trust in our institutions, especially in his court/justice picks.  Fucking hell I'm ready for this to be over with.  What a dark time we are living through.   

Mueller needs to testify before Congress on the investigation.

Period.  

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8718

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47 minutes ago, Dertyberd said:

That's bullshit if Congress only gets a summary.  They need the whole thing if they're to do a proper investigation.  Barr is going to fuck this thing, unless Mueller has already handed off absolutely everything that needs to be prosecuted.  I can only pray for the latter.  

Hopefully Mueller and Rosenstein did enough to ensure the integrity and transparency of the process. Barr was hired explicitly to bury the report by redacting any information about uncharged individuals- meaning Trump, who can’t be indicted while president 

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Dertyberd

Dertyberd 394

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Hopefully Mueller and Rosenstein did enough to ensure the integrity and transparency of the process. Barr was hired explicitly to bury the report by redacting any information about uncharged individuals- meaning Trump, who can’t be indicted while president 

Truth about why he was hired.  There is no law however saying that a sitting President can't be indicted, it is just DOJ policy.  Barr was made AG because he has publicly said he agrees with this policy.  They could unseal one of those likely Trump indictments in DC if they wanted to.  

Yes, @Hugo Stiglitz he absolutely must testify.  He is the only person in the country that would be must see TV and has the credibility to change minds.  

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GSU&UT

GSU&UT 1798

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9 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Wonder if live coverage of Mueller’s testimony would draw any eyeballs.

I was about to ponder if it would be the most watched event in American history, but half of our country has probably never heard of Robert Mueller.

How likely would it be open-doors? How is that even determined, ensuring safety to people who may be brought up in the report or something similar?

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Jester

Jester 382

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16 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Wonder if live coverage of Mueller’s testimony would draw any eyeballs.

I was about to ponder if it would be the most watched event in American history, but half of our country has probably never heard of Robert Mueller.

Yet another thing Trump would claim as a victory.  "I have the best ratings.  I mean. <pauses, looks confused and senile, puckers lips to look like butthole>  Talking about me.  Wasn't even there. <stupid look on face /raises eye brows> Still most watched event in the universe.  Huge rating.  Huge."

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Blotto

Blotto 23509

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25 minutes ago, Red Five said:

Wonder if live coverage of Mueller’s testimony would draw any eyeballs.

I was about to ponder if it would be the most watched event in American history, but half of our country has probably never heard of Robert Mueller.

If I was the GOP, I would simply hire the Kardashian family to host a livestream event opposite Mueller's testimony. Have them insert increasingly larger objects up their ass until there is only one left standing. Make it PPV and they can stuff their pockets. It will be as if Mueller never testified.

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Dertyberd

Dertyberd 394

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1 hour ago, Blotto said:

If I was the GOP, I would simply hire the Kardashian family to host a livestream event opposite Mueller's testimony. Have them insert increasingly larger objects up their ass until there is only one left standing. Make it PPV and they can stuff their pockets. It will be as if Mueller never testified.

The Aristocrats!

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Tyler Durden

Tyler Durden 132

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3 hours ago, Blotto said:

If I was the GOP, I would simply hire the Kardashian family to host a livestream event opposite Mueller's testimony. Have them insert increasingly larger objects up their ass until there is only one left standing. Make it PPV and they can stuff their pockets. It will be as if Mueller never testified.

That and have Trump hold a Jerry Lewis telethon style rally that lasts for days.  That would get lots of attention from the idiots.  

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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Okay, here’s my theory but keep in mind I don’t know jack shit.  

Rosenstein and Mueller have known for some time this was going to be the moment they were going to drop the hammer on Trump.  There’s no reason to drag this shit out if they have the goods on Trump and they need to do it now before the election season of 2020.  Otherwise, the whole potential impeachment process looks overly political.

They know Trump is a national security threat but all they can do is collect evidence and report it to Congress for impeachment proceedings.  So that’s exactly what they’re about to do.  The protocol for reporting crimes by the president to Congress is for the AG or DAG to hand it off to the chairman of the house judiciary committee for consideration.  

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Goredho

Goredho 17406

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Seems right.  Above board and by the book, which has been Mueller’s MO this whole time.  It would not surprise me if there is a plan B should things get squelched on turning over his report (assuming it contains significant evidence against Trump or his innermost circle).

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TwiceHorn

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Yeah, that's about right, I think, but there are some problems.

Quote

(c)Closing documentation. At the conclusion of the Special Counsel's work, he or she shall provide the Attorney General with a confidential report explaining the prosecution or declination decisions reached by the Special Counsel.

28 CFR 600.8(c).

Quote

(c) The Attorney General may determine that public release of these reports would be in the public interest, to the extent that release would comply with applicable legal restrictions. All other releases of information by any Department of Justice employee, including the Special Counsel and staff, concerning matters handled by Special Counsels shall be governed by the generally applicable Departmental guidelines concerning public comment with respect to any criminal investigation, and relevant law.

28 CFR 600.9(c).

But here may be the sticky wicket:

Quote

 

The regulations in this part are not intended to, do not, and may not be relied upon to create any rights, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or equity, by any person or entity, in any matter, civil, criminal, or administrative.

28 CFR 600.10.  This is nothing more than a truism because the above regulations deal solely with the internal processes of the DOJ and the named persons, e.g. the AG and SC.

So these regs do bind the AG to turn the report over to the Judiciary Committee, but it doesn't mandate disclosure and there are no rules governing disclosure by the AG or the Judiciary Committee, and the report is deemed "confidential."

There is room for mischief here, which is why I think it's worthwhile to have an actual special counsel statute.  Interestingly, Ronald Rotunda, a generally conservative con law prof opined to the DOJ that by signing the former special counsel statute into law, the POTUS waived his immunity to indictment by a special counsel.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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11 minutes ago, retread said:

What do you think the chances are of Mueller appearing before Congress? Would it be the Judiciary Committee if it happens?

It depends on the report as to chances of Mueller testifying 

Most likely judiciary but could also be oversight or intelligence 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30238

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8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

So is Trump going to jail?

When bullies get in trouble, they tend to commit suicide, so there is that.  But then, he is a coward and a pussy, so there is that ameliorating factor.   

But I'd still go with a suicide rather than him agreeing to go to  jail.

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Mo Horn

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1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Okay, here’s my theory but keep in mind I don’t know jack shit.  

Rosenstein and Mueller have known for some time this was going to be the moment they were going to drop the hammer on Trump.  There’s no reason to drag this shit out if they have the goods on Trump and they need to do it now before the election season of 2020.  Otherwise, the whole potential impeachment process looks overly political.

They know Trump is a national security threat but all they can do is collect evidence and report it to Congress for impeachment proceedings.  So that’s exactly what they’re about to do.  The protocol for reporting crimes by the president to Congress is for the AG or DAG to hand it off to the chairman of the house judiciary committee for consideration.  

I hope you're right, but I have this sick feeling that the report will be less than earth shattering and Trump will skate. He seems to be made of Teflon and nothing ever sticks to him. Every time I think HA, this is what will bring him down it just becomes the next ho hum thing and just another day. It's going to take more than Nixon era information for the Senate to turn on him. They've made their choice and unless Mueller has found a smoking gun they're going to fall in line. I so hope I'm wrong, but I've gone full Brisket and I'm way out on the ledge. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

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27 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

I hope you're right, but I have this sick feeling that the report will be less than earth shattering and Trump will skate. He seems to be made of Teflon and nothing ever sticks to him. Every time I think HA, this is what will bring him down it just becomes the next ho hum thing and just another day. It's going to take more than Nixon era information for the Senate to turn on him. They've made their choice and unless Mueller has found a smoking gun they're going to fall in line. I so hope I'm wrong, but I've gone full Brisket and I'm way out on the ledge. 

People seem to think everything is going to be in one report.  I believe this line of thinking is wrong.  While there may or may not be a comprehensive Mueller report on the Russian interference and Trump campaign coordination, I believe Mueller/Rosenstein will be separately submitting their evidence of Dotard crimes to Jerry Nadler on their way out the door. (obstruction, witness tampering, FARA, money laundering, fraud, etc).

That’s when the fun will begin. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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Mo Horn

Mo Horn 8841

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46 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

People seem to think everything is going to be in one report.  I believe this line of thinking is wrong.  While there may or may not be a comprehensive Mueller report on the Russian interference and Trump campaign coordination, I believe Mueller/Rosenstein will be separately submitting their evidence of Dotard crimes to Jerry Nadler on their way out the door. (obstruction, witness tampering, FARA, money laundering, fraud, etc).

That’s when the fun will begin. 

And add the stuff from the Southern District of New York, and other entities that are investigating. 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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Team Mueller has a giant lead over Congress in investigating and understanding the dimensions of what happened.  I hope and expect a major contribution from Mueller will be to accelerate Congressional legislative action for targeted and meaningful protection gained from understanding the findings.

Cohen publicly testifying to Congress next Wednesday and Mueller findings expected as early as next week.

What a time for Trump-Nork kabuki in Vietnam.

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deech

deech 2275

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1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

Team Mueller has a giant lead over Congress in investigating and understanding the dimensions of what happened.  I hope and expect a major contribution from Mueller will be to accelerate Congressional legislative action for targeted and meaningful protection gained from understanding the findings.

Cohen publicly testifying to Congress next Wednesday and Mueller findings expected as early as next week.

What a time for Trump-Nork kabuki in Vietnam.

Legislative action??  LOL.......................Have you been paying any attention to the last two years?

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horncyclist

horncyclist 1387

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So what should be the burden of proof when the President is a suspected Russian agent? Obviously any criminal prosecutions require beyond a reasonable doubt, but if there are impeachment proceedings, it's left up to the individual senators. Should the standard be that normally given to a criminal defendant by our constitution? Preponderance standard used in civil cases? Mueller may be reluctant to make conclusions about the broader conspiracy because he's judging it by whether they could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't think that's how the Senators should look at it, but inevitably, republicans will use Mueller's lack of conclusion as an exoneration. 

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