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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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Welch

Welch 635

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I believe Mueller/Rosenstein will be separately submitting their evidence of Dotard crimes to Jerry Nadler on their way out the door. (obstruction, witness tampering, FARA, money laundering, fraud, etc).

That’s when the fun will begin. 

As usual, this will work out well for Republicans. They’ve spent the last eight years establishing Congressional committees as partisan shams.

Mueller and Rosenstein could hand Nadler the smoking pee tape and half the country wouldn’t believe it since it came out of Congress.  Hell, a third of the country wouldn’t believe it even if lifelong Republican Mueller released it himself. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46126

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

So everyone is going to be disappointed when the report equivocates with vague language.

I don't think Robert Mueller is prone to equivocation.

I think William Barr and majority Senators are prone to redaction, but the report itself should be fair and true.

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Tuco

Tuco 5077

Posted
Posted

CNN article this morning is interesting. Geo is an interesting puzzle piece, but also who Don Jr called after the Trump Tower meeting, and how he is related to Bannon, Dep, and Mercer. Maybe the second part is old news I didn’t notice.

On phone, so not linking.

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Tuco

Tuco 5077

Posted
Posted

As usual, CNN confuses a decent story by leading with a pointless photograph, probably because the photo has cleavage in it. 

On my laptop now, so quotes from the story related to the second portion on Jr's call. 

Quote

... Geovanis went to Moscow to work for a Russian venture of a company called Brooke Group, which owned land earmarked for the site of a proposed Trump Tower....

...Also on the trip were Brooke Group's owners, the real estate moguls Bennett LeBow and Howard Lorber, who went on to become substantial donors to Trump's 2016 presidential campaign. Trump personally acknowledged the pair from the podium after he won the 2016 New York Republican primary. ...

Lorber has already been linked to the Senate investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 elections. The New York Times named him earlier this month as one of the Trump family associates who spoke with Donald Trump Jr. from blocked numbers around the time of a highly scrutinized 2016 meeting at Trump Tower in New York....

  Lebow and Lorber changed their company name from Brooke Group to Vector Group, a Nasdaq-listed cigarette and real estate company. Vector Group's top three shareholders include Renaissance Technologies, the hedge fund once run by Robert Mercer, the conservative donor who was once a patron of business and political ventures of Steve Bannon, Trump's former chief strategist.

In 2017 Geovanis was reemployed by Lebow to set up the Russian arm of another venture, Somerset Coal International, an energy technology company which claims to "clean" coal by washing it at high pressure.

So, within minutes after meeting with Veselnitskaya (and others) to get dirt on Clinton, Jr calls the guy his dad had been trying to build Trump Tower Moscow with,  who was deeply involved in Russian investments, and how had been heavily contributing to Trump's campaign.  

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

People seem to think everything is going to be in one report.  I believe this line of thinking is wrong.  While there may or may not be a comprehensive Mueller report on the Russian interference and Trump campaign coordination, I believe Mueller/Rosenstein will be separately submitting their evidence of Dotard crimes to Jerry Nadler on their way out the door. (obstruction, witness tampering, FARA, money laundering, fraud, etc).

That’s when the fun will begin. 

Oh so now there's going to be more than one report ?  Like a double secret report ??  Trump has been on double secret probation ??

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, deech said:

Legislative action??  LOL.......................Have you been paying any attention to the last two years?

Is that a reason for Mueller to not set the table ?  Obviously Senate and WH power shifting in 2020 makes a world of difference, but I hope Mueller can shine a bright light on what major reforms need to occur.  That would bring it to the attention of the public and bolster public and campaign discourse for legislative action in 2021, if not sooner.

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Texas Jeff

Texas Jeff 1945

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's possible that Trump is not guilty of collusion because he is a moron.  Trump on the campaign trail mostly held rallies where he belittled people to the cheers of the crowd, attended debates where he belittled people to the cheers of the crowd, and tweeted deragotory stuff about people to the cheers of the twitterverse.  He also wore a hat.  That seems to be about the extent of his efforts.

There were others around him who were smarter and more devious and were trying to help him win so that they could affect policy at the highest levels of the US government.  And, to their surprise, they won.  And, then they had to govern, which was probably boring.

Trump returns to the rallies again and again because that's his thing, ranting to a friendly crowd and looking powerful by firing and insulting others.  It's entirely possible that he is not guilty (but others around him are) because he just was not plugged into the mechanics of the campaign, because he is a moron.

Edited by Texas Jeff
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31534

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Posted
13 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

All other releases of information by any Department of Justice employee, including the Special Counsel and staff, concerning matters handled by Special Counsels shall be governed by the generally applicable Departmental guidelines concerning public comment with respect to any criminal investigation, and relevant law. 

Upthread I forgot to emphasize what I really meant to in the CFR cites and that is the above (got borked last night).  That language is probably where someone will find the grounds for either releasing or burying the Mueller report.  I might try to find those guidelines for further consideration.

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Loco

Loco 3754

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Texas Jeff said:

It's possible that Trump is not guilty of collusion because he is a moron.  Trump on the campaign trail mostly held rallies where he belittled people to the cheers of the crowd, attended debates where he belittled people to the cheers of the crowd, and tweeted deragotory stuff about people to the cheers of the twitterverse.  He also wore a hat.  That seems to be about the extent of his efforts.

There were others around him who were smarter and more devious and were trying to help him win so that they could affect policy at the highest levels of the US government.  And, to their surprise, they won.  And, then they had to govern, which was probably boring.

Trump returns to the rallies again and again because that's his thing, ranting to a friendly crowd and looking powerful by firing and insulting others.  It's entirely possible that he is not guilty (but others around him are) because he just was not plugged into the mechanics of the campaign, because he is a moron.

So why then does Trump attend meetings alone with Putin and Russian translators?  

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 30016

Posted
Posted (edited)

Tuco is so right about the picture. It's so stupid that you wonder if somebody managed to get it included as a Trojan horse to discredit the rest of the article.

190221115149-01b-david-geovanis-print-ex

 

This photo looks like it's from the 50s with the American just dropped in. Oddly the caption says he is pictured with three women. The card beside the photo makes it look like it's in a museum. The editor who decided to use this is an idiot or an operative.

However, I love the photo below. It's so stereotypically Russian. We have meeting in best conference room in basement. We even use the fluorescent lights to impress Amerikanski Dupe. I'll invite my friends, Boris (guy in coat looking at camera) and Vlad (seated at right and chowing down on good foodski). Vlad will even wear tie. Nice tie. Eat much food. Happy.

 

190221114647-01b-trump-moscow-1996-exlar

Edited by RomaVicta
Russki spy change words. I change back.
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Yuk

Yuk 1561

Posted
Posted

I don't think the overall goal is to suppress the report and evidence.  I think it's more likely that they know a subpoena from the House would get anything they want.  So they plan to force the House's hand in issuing the subpoena and fight it.  This gives the White House a great deal of time to throw water on the fire.  In the meantime, they will have all the findings, grand jury testimony, etc to themselves and they can dribble out the most damning ones to Maggie Haberman at the NYT. 

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Texas Jeff

Texas Jeff 1945

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Loco said:

So why then does Trump attend meetings alone with Putin and Russian translators?  

Well, just a guess here but I suspect he had Russian "investors" who were propping him up after his casino failures, and those came with strings attached.  They are discussing the strings and how we don't want to tell anyone else about the strings.  Trump seems to have respect for Putin either as a leader or as someone who has information that could be used against Trump.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31534

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Upthread I forgot to emphasize what I really meant to in the CFR cites and that is the above (got borked last night).  That language is probably where someone will find the grounds for either releasing or burying the Mueller report.  I might try to find those guidelines for further consideration.

Seems to be here. https://www.justice.gov/jm/jm-1-7000-media-relations

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Longhorn94

Longhorn94 2458

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Texas Jeff said:

It's possible that Trump is not guilty of collusion because he is a moron.  Trump on the campaign trail mostly held rallies where he belittled people to the cheers of the crowd, attended debates where he belittled people to the cheers of the crowd, and tweeted deragotory stuff about people to the cheers of the twitterverse.  He also wore a hat.  That seems to be about the extent of his efforts.

There were others around him who were smarter and more devious and were trying to help him win so that they could affect policy at the highest levels of the US government.  And, to their surprise, they won.  And, then they had to govern, which was probably boring.

Trump returns to the rallies again and again because that's his thing, ranting to a friendly crowd and looking powerful by firing and insulting others.  It's entirely possible that he is not guilty (but others around him are) because he just was not plugged into the mechanics of the campaign, because he is a moron.

its certainly possible and trump has certainly made a great case for being a moron. but innocent morons do not obstruct investigations. they welcome it and promise to participate fully. all of his conduct is akin to fleeing the scene of a crime. he is guilty AF and his conduct thereafter practically confirms as such.

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Tuco

Tuco 5077

Posted
Posted
Trump is too stupid to collude has always been his best defense but it falls apart when you realize he’s the President of the United States.

It’s so absurd. Stupid people do stupid things. Prisons are filled with stupid (and crazy) people. Nobody is saying that Trump planned anything complicated. His idiocy, greed, and arrogance makes him a perfect mark for manipulation.
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105320

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Tuco said:


It’s so absurd. Stupid people do stupid things. Prisons are filled with stupid (and crazy) people. Nobody is saying that Trump planned anything complicated. His idiocy, greed, and arrogance makes him a perfect mark for manipulation.

Not only is "stupid" not a defense, stupid people end up part of conspiracies ALL THE F'N TIME.  Go watch any drug conspiracy case in Federal Court.  MOST of the defendants are stupid dipshits who got caught up in something because they were dumb, greedy, and didn't think about what was going on for even a half second.  They didn't decide "yes, I want to be an integral part of the machine for a sinister cartel."  They thought "my cool friend Jim is doing this thing, and money is good, and money gets me laid, and I like pussy."  And that's about it.  And they ended up moving bags of cocaine at the club.

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Pescado_Rojo

Pescado_Rojo 19428

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Not only is "stupid" not a defense, stupid people end up part of conspiracies ALL THE F'N TIME.  Go watch any drug conspiracy case in Federal Court.  MOST of the defendants are stupid dipshits who got caught up in something because they were dumb, greedy, and didn't think about what was going on for even a half second.  They didn't decide "yes, I want to be an integral part of the machine for a sinister cartel."  They thought "my cool friend Jim is doing this thing, and money is good, and money gets me laid, and I like pussy."  And that's about it.  And they ended up moving bags of cocaine at the club.

Sir...why do you hate pussy and cocaine? 

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retread

retread 2951

Posted
Posted

It's not like Trump sat down with everyone and said, "Okay, we're going to ask the Russians help us win this election." Trump and Manafort were already well aware of how compromised they were. Same for several others probably. Instead, the Russians have sat them down over the years and told them how it's gonna be. That still continues when Trump is in the same place as Putin. He gets his 5,000 mile checkup and does what daddy says.

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TornACL

TornACL 7722

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Texas Jeff said:

It's possible that Trump is not guilty of collusion because he is a moron.  Trump on the campaign trail mostly held rallies where he belittled people to the cheers of the crowd, attended debates where he belittled people to the cheers of the crowd, and tweeted deragotory stuff about people to the cheers of the twitterverse.  He also wore a hat.  That seems to be about the extent of his efforts.

There were others around him who were smarter and more devious and were trying to help him win so that they could affect policy at the highest levels of the US government.  And, to their surprise, they won.  And, then they had to govern, which was probably boring.

Trump returns to the rallies again and again because that's his thing, ranting to a friendly crowd and looking powerful by firing and insulting others.  It's entirely possible that he is not guilty (but others around him are) because he just was not plugged into the mechanics of the campaign, because he is a moron.

Based on what we know so far, and the indictments and convictions of a large number of people who supported his campaign, I would say quite the opposite.

The only way Trump could have avoided being an active conspirator to collusion is if he is very smart or careful.  Knowing Trump as we do, I'd say that puts money on "guilty". Additionally, I can't conceive of a scenario where these criminal imbeciles he hired to run his campaign were careful enough to shield him from any criminal tripwires. 

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31534

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

Nothing happens around Trump without him at least pretending to understand and agree.  No way this micromanager didn't put his stamp of approval on Russian involvement, even if it were just a rubber stamp.  He's quite capable of ignorance AND collusion, imo.

True enough.  It has become clear to me that to Trump, if you have money, you must be smart, competent, honest, law-abiding and all the other positive attributes that he lacks and have little or nothing to do with having money.

So if it involves money or benefit to Trump, you can be sure he thinks it's excellent and above-board and approved it somewhere along the line.

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Longhorn94

Longhorn94 2458

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, retread said:

It's not like Trump sat down with everyone and said, "Okay, we're going to ask the Russians help us win this election." Trump and Manafort were already well aware of how compromised they were. Same for several others probably. Instead, the Russians have sat them down over the years and told them how it's gonna be. That still continues when Trump is in the same place as Putin. He gets his 5,000 mile checkup and does what daddy says.

When Manafort got involved, everyone knew exactly what that meant.

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retread

retread 2951

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

Nothing happens around Trump without him at least pretending to understand and agree.  No way this micromanager didn't put his stamp of approval on Russian involvement, even if it were just a rubber stamp.  He's quite capable of ignorance AND collusion, imo.

I agree with this. I could see there being a lot of conversations where he was given the gist of current activity while still maintaining plausible deniability.

You just know that he stuck his nose into some of the operations to ill effect. As big of a dumbass as he is, it will be interesting to see how they screwed themselves with arrogance and general dumbassery.

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19220

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Tuco is so right about the picture. It's so stupid that you wonder if somebody managed to get it included as a Trojan horse to discredit the rest of the article.

190221115149-01b-david-geovanis-print-ex

 

This photo looks like it's from the 50s with the American just dropped in. Oddly the caption says he is pictured with three women. The card beside the photo makes it look like it's in a museum. The editor who decided to use this is an idiot or an operative.

However, I love the photo below. It's so stereotypically Russian. We have meeting in best conference room in basement. We even use the fluorescent lights to impress Amerikanski Dupe. I'll invite my friends, Boris (guy in coat looking at camera) and Vlad (seated at right and chowing down on good foodski). Vlad will even wear tie. Nice tie. Eat much food. Happy.

 

190221114647-01b-trump-moscow-1996-exlar

There needs to be at least two ashtrays full of cigarette butts in front of each Russian along with their own personal carafe of vodka to make it really authentic.  At least that’s how most of the Russian banquets / dinners were when I worked there.

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bolverk

bolverk 29717

Posted
Posted

This is a pretty good opinion piece on what to expect from the Mueller report. At least, it gave me some comfort in where things are likely heading.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/opinion/mueller-report-trump-democrats-barr.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

(Remember to open in incognito mode to avoid paywall.)

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18946

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

This is a pretty good opinion piece on what to expect from the Mueller report. At least, it gave me some comfort in where things are likely heading.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/opinion/mueller-report-trump-democrats-barr.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

(Remember to open in incognito mode to avoid paywall.)

Yeah, the next two years are not going to be pleasant for team Trump.

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