The Robert Mueller Investigation

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 minute ago, BrickHorn said:

The Internet is not a limited resource the way broadcast television is (or at least was).  Indeed, that is the problem.  There’s TOO MUCH content on the Internet.  

In fact, the Fairness Doctrine was about allowing (not censoring) speech. It requires that broadcasters offer the other side of a controversial topic “a reasonable opportunity” to respond.  It did not require censoring the proponent of a controversial, incorrect, or dangerous idea.  Which is, I believe, what you are proposing.

Can you quote me advocating censorship or is it more of a ~*~* delicate feelings *~*~ thing?

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Content-based restrictions are part of regulation of broadcast media and the Internet, not separate issues. The point is simple, just saying "uhh the 1st Amendment!" is neither a compelling nor interesting argument.

The Fairness Doctrine withstood Constitutional challenges based on 1st Amendment objections already, so to oppose its reinstatement by simply quoting the 1st Amendment is asinine and terrible argumentation.

Furthermore, it was formulated in 1949, so of course it doesn't talk about the Internet and you did not bother even attempting to state a reason as to why the Internet should be held in different standing. The Internet, like broadcast media, requires access to the taxpayer's airwaves and physical land and, because of this, is subject to the taxpayer's jurisdiction and reasonable scrutiny.

I'm not trying to argue.  I'm trying to educate someone that has never read anything on this issue.

[BrickHorn 18194]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

I don't know if you're being facetious or not, but we absolutely need to reinstate and strengthen the Fairness Doctrine. Furthermore, we absolutely should tell social media sites (Facebook, Twitter, and Google/YouTube) that if their lack of editing and curation continues to give an outsized voice to bots, trolls, hate groups, and liars, they will literally be broken up or nationalized.

We cannot have a healthy society if our diet is poison.

 

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

The American people own the airwaves and grant it on license to media outlets. If hate-mongers and liars and propaganda outlets want to communicate their speech in a way that doesn't use the property and resources of the taxpayer, that's fine. However, we should be under no obligation to grant FCC broadcast licenses to hate-mongers, liars, and propaganda outlets.

And furthermore, hate speech, lies, demagoguery, and propaganda are not "the most protected form of speech".

 

18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Content-based restrictions are part of regulation of broadcast media and the Internet, not separate issues. The point is simple, just saying "uhh the 1st Amendment!" is neither a compelling nor interesting argument.

 

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Can you quote me advocating censorship or is it more of a ~*~* delicate feelings *~*~ thing?

Read your own posts (quoted above), you Bolshevik jackass.

[bad_teammate 13132]

2 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Read your own posts (quoted above), you Bolshevik jackass.

There's nothing in there advocating censorship.

The people of America should be under no obligation to provide access to the airwaves and public land for media outlets who lie, spew hate, or broadcast propaganda.

It's not complicated.

4 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I'm not trying to argue.  I'm trying to educate someone that has never read anything on this issue.

Then make your argument. You quoted the 1st Amendement in response to a call for a revival of the Fairness Doctrine, apparently not realizing that had already happened in 1969 and the Fairness Doctrine survived.

[BrickHorn 18194]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

The people of America should be under no obligation to provide access to the airwaves and public land for media outlets who lie, spew hate, or broadcast propaganda.

It's not complicated.

No, it’s not.  And yet you somehow manage to completely fuck it up.  Amazing, really.

[triplehorn 2664]

28 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The only thing I can make of this shit is Giuliani is probably lying and Trump likely dangled a pardon instead of Cohen seeking one out.  

Giuliani and Trump are trying to preemptively flip the script on Cohen because they are playing political warfare where the only thing that matters is public perception.

The possible Lanny Davis/Firtash/Mogelevich angle isn’t really doing it for me because the worst case scenario is what?  Cohen is protecting some Russian mafia guys?  Okay, I feel pretty good Mueller and company don’t need anything Cohen could give them to go barking up that tree.

Yes on the first part - Rudy did the same script flipping wrt the tape of Cohen/Trump discussing cash v check payout to Stormy.  Rudy wants to make it look like Cohen sought the pardon instead of the other way around.

 

Re: "The possible Lanny Davis/Firtash/Mogelevich angle isn’t really doing it for me because the worst case scenario is what?  Cohen is protecting some Russian mafia guys?  Okay, I feel pretty good Mueller and company don’t need anything Cohen could give them to go barking up that tree."

I think the gamble for Cohen is that he gets off relatively easily with ~3 yrs prison by pleading guilty and helping serve up POTUS/Trump Org while hoping he doesn't get additional charges for Trump/Russia conspiracy even though he remains uncooperative in that area.  IF his being uncooperative in that area is to protect Russian mafia guys with an assist from Lanny Davis, he will likely be due a future reward from said Russian mafia guys for his service, mob rules.

---> 3 years prison with oligarch gifts afterwards for walling their shit off vs. playing pardon roulette with Dotard and getting put away for life.

Edited March 7, 2019 by triplehorn

[TwiceHorn 31285]

https://constitutionallawreporter.com/amendment-01/freedom-speech/unprotected-speech/

[Chet Steadman 940]

3 hours ago, Lagunamadre said:

Out of curiosity. Where do you hear this chatter? Twitter? Friends? Can you share any tid bits?

For only $9.95, you too can receive the real inside chatter from The Big Cigar himself.

[hayden_horn 11360]

1 minute ago, Chet Steadman said:

For only $9.95, you too can receive the real inside chatter from The Big Cigar himself.

you bet

[Lagunamadre 1975]

2 minutes ago, Chet Steadman said:

For only $9.95, you too can receive the real inside chatter from The Big Cigar himself.

No need. I've got Tom Hick's nephew's nanny on speed dial. 

[Pescado_Rojo 19331]

I'm supposed to talk to porta-potty milf later today...I'll see if she's heard anything

 

[Biff Tannen 45499]

35 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

I think the gamble for Cohen is that he gets off relatively easily with ~3 yrs prison by pleading guilty and helping serve up POTUS/Trump Org while hoping he doesn't get additional charges for Trump/Russia conspiracy even though he remains uncooperative in that area.  IF his being uncooperative in that area is to protect Russian mafia guys with an assist from Lanny Davis, he will likely be due a future reward from said Russian mafia guys for his service, mob rules.

What if the "reward" is not killing him?

[Nolacycling 893]

it's 3:35 on East Coast. When is this Manafort sentencing going down? Does he go into custody immediately. 

[triplehorn 2664]

4 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I'm supposed to talk to porta-potty milf later today...I'll see if she's heard anything

 

 

'nuff said.  lol

 

also: 

Beware the Ides of Trump The Special Counsel may hand in his report on Friday – word is that it will make the case for collusion

 

Spoiler

One former official, passing along information from a ‘rock solid’ source inside the Department of Justice, tells Cockburn that Robert Mueller will give his report to the Attorney General on Friday. It will make the case for ‘collusion,’ he said, and will not just be about ‘process’ – perjury, obstruction of justice – or financial crimes.

The same former official was also convinced that there would be indictments for one or more of President Trump’s children. Cockburnspoke to two others  – each (apparently) with their own sources on the matter – who said this Friday would be a big day in the Trump-Russia investigation.

The former director of the CIA, John Brennan, has clearly heard the same. He said as much when he appeared on Lawrence O’Donnell’s show on MSNBC, The Last Word. ‘I think Robert Mueller wants to be able to conclude his work and turn over the investigative threads to the Southern District of New York, the Eastern District of Virginia and other jurisdictions as appropriate. I wouldn’t be surprised if, for example, this week on Friday – not knowing anything about it – but Friday is the day the grand jury indictments come down.’

‘And,’ he added, ‘this Friday is better than next Friday, because next Friday is the 15th of March, which is the Ides of March, and I don’t think Robert Mueller will want to have that dramatic flair of the Ides of March when he’ll be delivering what I think are going to be indictments, the final indictments, as well as the report to the Attorney General.’

The Ides of March is the day in the Roman calendar that corresponds to March the 15th, a week tomorrow. Julius Caesar was assassinated on this day in 44 BC.  Shakespeare’s soothsayer warns Caesar: ‘Beware the Ides of March!’

On MSNBC, Brennan appeared to choose his words deliberately: ‘If anybody from the Trump family, extended family, is going to be indicted, it would be the final act of Mueller’s investigation.’ He said: ‘Bob Mueller and his team knows if he were to do something – indicting a Trump family member or if he were to go forward with indictment on criminal conspiracy involving US persons – that would basically be the death of the special counsel’s office, because I don’t believe Donald Trump would allow Bob Mueller to continue in the aftermath of those types of actions.’

Lawrence O’Donnell told his viewers they really had to ‘listen to every word’ of Brennan’s carefully. Those words, it seems to Cockburn, do more than hint at indictments for Trump’s eldest son, Don Junior – ‘family – or his son-in-law, Jared Kushner – ‘extended family’. Brennan said Mueller would use his report to address whether there had been a ‘criminal conspiracy,’ that is a conspiracy – or collusion – involving Russia, the allegation he was asked to investigate.

This does not mean that Mueller would, or could, indict Donald Trump himself. Department of Justice policy is that a sitting president cannot be indicted by the criminal justice system. That would be left to the House of Representatives, which can impeach – or charge – a president, by simple majority vote. A trial in the Senate would follow, with two-thirds needed to convict. House Democrats are trying not to seem too eager to impeach Trump but Cockburn would bet a porn-star sized payoff that impeachment proceedings are inevitable.

An official in the Obama administration said that if Trump’s children or his son-in-law were indicted, a deal would be offered: leave now, quietly, and everyone gets pardoned. Did anyone ask Mike Pence about this? One Washington insider said he’d heard whispers of conversations ‘across the aisle’ on how to bring the country together if Trump was run out of office. On the other hand, a witness for the Mueller inquiry, who’s given evidence about Russia, tells Cockburn that the report will say, as Trump does: ‘No collusion!’

You can view all this as the inside track. Or as the kind of feverish speculation that’s followed Mueller and Trump since the Russia inquiry began. Witch-hunt! March 15 – the Ides of March – falls a week after Mueller may (or may not) report. This was the day – in 1917 – that Czar Nicholas abdicated in the Russian revolution. It was the day – in 1971 – that The Ed Sullivan Show was canceled after 23 years on CBS. It seems that The Trump Show is about to get the review that could decide whether it stays on air. ‘Beware the week before the Ides of March!’

 

[Biff Tannen 45499]

Be still my heart.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23359]

I’ve always been skeptical of the counterchekist account.  His messaging has been good at staying positive and trying to keep people hopeful.  However, his Mueller predictions and info reliability hasn’t been that great with the whole “feathers” schtick.

His overt push of Joe Biden also raised my eyebrow. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[triplehorn 2664]

22 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’ve always been skeptical of the counterchekist account.  His messaging has been good at staying positive and trying to keep people hopeful.  However, his Mueller predictions and info reliability hasn’t been that great with the whole “feathers” schtick.

His overt push of Joe Biden also raised my eyebrow. 

You’ve also long been skeptical of Trump directly coordinating with Putin’s forces around the 2016 election attack.  Quite the paradox. 

As to the depth of coordination and traitorous corruption that shocks the American conscience - that’s how the ‘schticks’ will ultimately be judged.

Edited March 7, 2019 by triplehorn

[Hugo Stiglitz 23359]

7 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

You’ve also long been skeptical of Trump directly coordinating with Putin’s forces around the 2016 election attack.  Quite the paradox. 

This is a joke right?  Pretty sure I’ve laid out my opinion and as much of the big conspiracy narrative I could based on the information I’ve seen.

My skepticism is if Mueller could criminally charge Trump himself for the election conspiracy with Russia.  I have little doubt Trump was a willing participant in the attack but the hard evidence to prove it and convince a jury might be lacking.  I don’t know what Mueller has in that department.

[Pig Bellmont 8692]

1 hour ago, Nolacycling said:

it's 3:35 on East Coast. When is this Manafort sentencing going down? Does he go into custody immediately. 

A wheelchair? Good Christ. 

[Pig Bellmont 8692]

And notably, no phones allowed so no one is live tweeting. All will be rushing to cars/hotel across the street when done 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23359]

Who is ready for some justice? 

[triplehorn 2664]

4 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I have little doubt Trump was a willing participant in the attack but the hard evidence to prove it and convince a jury might be lacking.  I don’t know what Mueller has in that department.

Fair enough.  I mean, from the same account today:

 

That is, after all, speaking the language of "hard evidence." 

I anxiously await finding out if the evidence was waaayyy over-promised or not.  It's either completely made up shit, or it's sourced somehow.  My bet is that it's not been made up, only because so much is already known and so many overlapping layers of sourcing and reporting exist. 

When the scooby gang coalesced in that wild span of the Spring of 2017, that's when people emerged who suddenly seemed to know about a lot of shit going down.  What they were reporting (excepting some weird Mensch tangents) has not only remained unchanged since that time, but also continues to surface in MSM as 'new reporting' with verification today.

[BrickHorn 18194]

16 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

A wheelchair? Good Christ. 

Maybe he has a slip and fall claim against the government.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23359]

The problem I have with tweets like that is they’re infallible.   It’s impossible to dispute the veracity of the claim, “Mueller knows everything”.

It seems like counterchekist’s motivation is to keep people’s faith in Mueller/the system and not doubt Mueller’s conclusions, whatever they may be.  

Edited March 7, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Nolacycling 893]

I haven't F5'd like this since recruiting day 3 years ago. LET'S GO

 

 

 

[Lagunamadre 1975]

11 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

And notably, no phones allowed so no one is live tweeting. All will be rushing to cars/hotel across the street when done 

[AUinHsv 576]

13 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

And notably, no phones allowed so no one is live tweeting. All will be rushing to cars/hotel across the street when done 

Crap - was trying to post the exaxt same thing. The youtube link would not imbed for some reason

Edited March 7, 2019 by AUinHsv

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

LOL, Manafort's attorney says his health has declined in prison. 

 

Um, that's exactly how prison works. 

[suddenly shaggy 929]

1 hour ago, triplehorn said:

Beware the Ides of Trump The Special Counsel may hand in his report on Friday – word is that it will make the case for collusion

  Hide contents

One former official, passing along information from a ‘rock solid’ source inside the Department of Justice, tells Cockburn that Robert Mueller will give his report to the Attorney General on Friday. It will make the case for ‘collusion,’ he said, and will not just be about ‘process’ – perjury, obstruction of justice – or financial crimes.

The same former official was also convinced that there would be indictments for one or more of President Trump’s children. Cockburnspoke to two others  – each (apparently) with their own sources on the matter – who said this Friday would be a big day in the Trump-Russia investigation.

The former director of the CIA, John Brennan, has clearly heard the same. He said as much when he appeared on Lawrence O’Donnell’s show on MSNBC, The Last Word. ‘I think Robert Mueller wants to be able to conclude his work and turn over the investigative threads to the Southern District of New York, the Eastern District of Virginia and other jurisdictions as appropriate. I wouldn’t be surprised if, for example, this week on Friday – not knowing anything about it – but Friday is the day the grand jury indictments come down.’

‘And,’ he added, ‘this Friday is better than next Friday, because next Friday is the 15th of March, which is the Ides of March, and I don’t think Robert Mueller will want to have that dramatic flair of the Ides of March when he’ll be delivering what I think are going to be indictments, the final indictments, as well as the report to the Attorney General.’

The Ides of March is the day in the Roman calendar that corresponds to March the 15th, a week tomorrow. Julius Caesar was assassinated on this day in 44 BC.  Shakespeare’s soothsayer warns Caesar: ‘Beware the Ides of March!’

On MSNBC, Brennan appeared to choose his words deliberately: ‘If anybody from the Trump family, extended family, is going to be indicted, it would be the final act of Mueller’s investigation.’ He said: ‘Bob Mueller and his team knows if he were to do something – indicting a Trump family member or if he were to go forward with indictment on criminal conspiracy involving US persons – that would basically be the death of the special counsel’s office, because I don’t believe Donald Trump would allow Bob Mueller to continue in the aftermath of those types of actions.’

Lawrence O’Donnell told his viewers they really had to ‘listen to every word’ of Brennan’s carefully. Those words, it seems to Cockburn, do more than hint at indictments for Trump’s eldest son, Don Junior – ‘family – or his son-in-law, Jared Kushner – ‘extended family’. Brennan said Mueller would use his report to address whether there had been a ‘criminal conspiracy,’ that is a conspiracy – or collusion – involving Russia, the allegation he was asked to investigate.

This does not mean that Mueller would, or could, indict Donald Trump himself. Department of Justice policy is that a sitting president cannot be indicted by the criminal justice system. That would be left to the House of Representatives, which can impeach – or charge – a president, by simple majority vote. A trial in the Senate would follow, with two-thirds needed to convict. House Democrats are trying not to seem too eager to impeach Trump but Cockburn would bet a porn-star sized payoff that impeachment proceedings are inevitable.

An official in the Obama administration said that if Trump’s children or his son-in-law were indicted, a deal would be offered: leave now, quietly, and everyone gets pardoned. Did anyone ask Mike Pence about this? One Washington insider said he’d heard whispers of conversations ‘across the aisle’ on how to bring the country together if Trump was run out of office. On the other hand, a witness for the Mueller inquiry, who’s given evidence about Russia, tells Cockburn that the report will say, as Trump does: ‘No collusion!’

You can view all this as the inside track. Or as the kind of feverish speculation that’s followed Mueller and Trump since the Russia inquiry began. Witch-hunt! March 15 – the Ides of March – falls a week after Mueller may (or may not) report. This was the day – in 1917 – that Czar Nicholas abdicated in the Russian revolution. It was the day – in 1971 – that The Ed Sullivan Show was canceled after 23 years on CBS. It seems that The Trump Show is about to get the review that could decide whether it stays on air. ‘Beware the week before the Ides of March!’

 

Every few weeks someone throws down a deadline. The Mueller report will be out next Friday, but it turns out to be Trumpkin sources trying to put pressure on Mueller. Ken Dilanian insisting the Mueller report would be out Feb 14th was the latest example. 

Sooner or later, it'll happen, but I'm not holding my breath it will be tomorrow. Especially to avoid an Ides of March indictment. That's fucking stupid.

Almost all the previous sources for dates that didn't happen were also anonymous DOJ sources trying to delegitimize Mueller. This one probably is too. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by suddenly shaggy

[Nolacycling 893]

wasn't he the one who had a separate workroom and computer?

[deech 2251]

 

 

[triplehorn 2664]

3 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

Every few weeks someone throws down a deadline. The Mueller report will be out next Friday, but it turns out to be Trumpkin sources trying to put pressure on Mueller. Ken Dilanian insisting the Mueller report would be out Feb 14th was the latest example. 

Sooner or later, it'll happen, but I'm not holding my breath it will be tomorrow. Especially to avoid an Ides of March indictment. That's fucking stupid.

Almost all the previous sources for dates that didn't happen were also anonymous DOJ sources trying to delegitimize Mueller. This one probably is too. 

You make an important distinction: Mueller timing being pushed by likely targets of the investigation vs. movement originating from rule of law type folks. 

[jimmyjazz 45560]

2 minutes ago, deech said:

 

 

[triplehorn 2664]

5 minutes ago, deech said:

 

 

 

oh Rudy, that sucks. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23359]

 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

Fellow Surlyites,

To be clear, none of you are my friends.

Suing.

[Pig Bellmont 8692]

Not a good sign...

Edit to add I think the hearing is still ongoing 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Pig Bellmont

[Mdhorn 5911]

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

What if the "reward" is not killing him?

Or his family?

[SubliminalHorn 6674]

So is it happening?/ronpaul.gif

[Homercles 10205]

No mention on Fox naturally

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

24 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Not a good sign...

Edit to add I think the hearing is still ongoing 

Jesus.  You can't be too happy when your judge waxes wistfully about rampant death sentences.

[llanoflash 151]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23359]

Paul Manafort is about to set a record for campaign managers. 

[Chooky 13302]

Manafort entered the courtroom in a wheelchair AND a cane.  Also was wearing a huge neck brace, two knee braces, two ankle boots, two shoulder slings, pelvic cast, head bandage, colostomy bag, blind guy glasses, guide dog, oxygen tank, hemorrhoid salve, halo harness and encased in a John Travolta bubble boy immunity dome.  Those in attendance gasped in sympathy.  Clearly this man has been through enough. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23359]

 

[horncyclist 1386]

If Trump pardons Manafort after Manafort got caught lying about matters at the "heart" of the Russia investigation, that should be it right? Can I even hope?

[deech 2251]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

 

[lemonlime 5503]

1 minute ago, horncyclist said:

If Trump pardons Manafort after Manafort got caught lying about matters at the "heart" of the Russia investigation, that should be it right? Can I even hope?

It depends on what the meaning of "it" is.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23359]

Just now, horncyclist said:

If Trump pardons Manafort after Manafort got caught lying about matters at the "heart" of the Russia investigation, that should be it right? Can I even hope?

It would be a clear red line to push the democrats to impeach Trump. 

Senate conviction and removal?  Outlook not so good.

[horncyclist 1386]

Just now, lemonlime said:

It depends on what the meaning of "it" is.

I'm not sure. I just want it to be over.

In other news, I saw George Conway at a deposition today. He seemed chipper.