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The Robert Mueller Investigation

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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Goredho
Goredho

Just to make sure I have the alternative facts straight...  Our government -- but I'm guessing only the deep state part of it --- is now guilty of torturing a poor, naive Russian exchange student who

Incredulity
Incredulity

liberals suddenly being terrified of Russia and manic for election integrity is just pure comedy gold.

Chooky
Chooky

I don't believe for a moment that any of this is entertaining to you.  I think it gives you a bit of anxiety knowing that your best weapon against a group who you despise is a bumbling fraud as a busi

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North Austin

North Austin 10

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yeah, meanwhile the Kremlin is drawing up it’s attack plans to help Trump again in 2020.  They’re in ecstasy over this Barr letter and emboldened to push the envelope because there are little to no consequences for confederates as long as they aren’t listed in the Kremlin’s database of “paid employees”.

 

Is this a shtick?  This is flat earth level delusion.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18941

Posted
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38 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I would love to, but without hearing from Mueller or getting the facts, this isn’t over.   I really want to see if the reporting on the investigation lines up with the facts Mueller found.  

From a pure political standpoint the Republicans strategy is smart.  They wrote the headlines they needed today and are burying the underlying evidence from public view.  How very republican.

Democrats are probably going to roll over and let this go because the fight for the truth isn’t politically worth it. 

I don't think they are. It's only Monday morning and the victory is already starting to wear off because the Barr letter is so clearly a political document rather than a legal one. It's being picked apart with a speed that is frankly surprising. The longer the AG goes without releasing the report, the more it is going to start looking like they are trying to hide something. 

The mantra from the Democrats should be, "Release the report." If they can stay on message, it will put tremendous pressure on the administration to do just that. If they don't, it can easily be painted as a cover up. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18941

Posted
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Just now, North Austin said:

Is it really that hard for people to admit when they are wrong about something? 

Until they get a chance to read Robert Mueller's full report and all of the evidence, yes.

 All we have now is a political document written by a man who was hired to do exactly what he did yesterday. The short term political victory is going to fade, however, if they don't release the report fairly quickly. 

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, North Austin said:

Is it really that hard for people to admit when they are wrong about something? 

 

Yes.  Especially when you’ve tied up your online identity with this idea that is now being declared rubbish. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18941

Posted
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Just now, GRHorn said:

Yes.  Especially when you’ve tied up your online identity with this idea that is now being declared rubbish. 

By a political appointee. 

It will do them no good if they don't release the report. Barr's letter is already starting to have diminishing returns and it's only Monday morning.

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GRHorn

GRHorn 105

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

By a political appointee. 

It will do them no good if they don't release the report. Barr's letter is already starting to have diminishing returns and it's only Monday morning.

Who? Robert Mueller?

Diminshing returns with whom? Dem/Media twitter? What a shocker. 

 

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Hate

Hate 20129

Posted
Posted

There is apparently still more evidence that he left's messiah colluded with the Russians than this current administration.  Maybe if he hadn't been so friendly with the Russians we wouldn't be in this mess??  And of course, Hilary would have been much tougher on them than anyone I'm sure.

 

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 10958

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Jim Tom Pinch said:

We do? Since when?

 

9 hours ago, Jim Tom Pinch said:

We know no such thing.

Putin Ordered Campaign To Influence US Election

We assess with high confidence that Russian
President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence
campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential
election, the consistent goals of which were to
undermine public faith in the US democratic
process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her
electability and potential presidency. We further
assess Putin and the Russian Government
developed a clear preference for President-elect
Trump. When it appeared to Moscow that
Secretary Clinton was likely to win the election, the
Russian influence campaign then focused on
undermining her expected presidency. 

 

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 10958

Posted
Posted
Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Cliff notes ?

Nothing earth shattering just solid play by play. No collusion, but on the obstruction side they were talking about how difficult it is to prove intent as an investigator and for every moment you say "that looks like obstruction" you can say "yes, but he also could've thought this" and it's really difficult to prove thought A over thought B. Also the ability of getting someone on obstruction without any evidence of a crime in the first place is a very difficult charge to prove. 

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Hate

Hate 20129

Posted
Posted
Putin Ordered Campaign To Influence US Election
We assess with high confidence that Russian
President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence
campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential
election, the consistent goals of which were to
undermine public faith in the US democratic
process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her
electability and potential presidency. We further
assess Putin and the Russian Government
developed a clear preference for President-elect
Trump. When it appeared to Moscow that
Secretary Clinton was likely to win the election, the
Russian influence campaign then focused on
undermining her expected presidency. 
 
https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf


I genuinely wonder how many minds were changed? How many people do you think changed their vote from Hilary to Trump based on any “propaganda” from the Russians?? Do you think they even made a dent?
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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46006

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, troph said:

The thing is we should all be breathing a collective sigh of relief there is no evidence of trump colluding with the Russians. Doesn’t mean he’s clean on all counts of all wrong doing, but at least the nightmare scenario isn’t true.

Careful, that's crazy talk 'round these parts.

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 10958

Posted
Posted

 

2 minutes ago, Hate said:

 


I genuinely wonder how many minds were changed? How many people do you think changed their vote from Hilary to Trump based on any “propaganda” from the Russians?? Do you think they even made a dent?

 

I wouldn't think very many, but people are susceptible to believe anything on the internet especially the olds. I'd imagine most of the FWD FWD FWD FWD: crowd was already on the Trump Train though.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
  • Author
Posted
6 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

 

Putin Ordered Campaign To Influence US Election

We assess with high confidence that Russian
President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence
campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential
election, the consistent goals of which were to
undermine public faith in the US democratic
process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her
electability and potential presidency. We further
assess Putin and the Russian Government
developed a clear preference for President-elect
Trump. When it appeared to Moscow that
Secretary Clinton was likely to win the election, the
Russian influence campaign then focused on
undermining her expected presidency. 

 

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

That’s what I expected the Mueller report to look like except with more detail based on the speaking indictments of the Russians.

The Mueller indictments:

1. Laying out the Kremlin online active measures shadow campaign with tremendous detail

https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download

2.  Laying out the GRU military operation to hack the DNC and using WikiLeaks (organization 1) to disseminate the stolen emails to influence public perception with plausible deniability.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download

 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Hate said:

 


I genuinely wonder how many minds were changed? How many people do you think changed their vote from Hilary to Trump based on any “propaganda” from the Russians?? Do you think they even made a dent?

 

I have doubts anyone was to a statistical significance.  The two candidate were already so polarizing.  

I have doubts about how Russia could have any effect unless they could get inside voting booths.  Their influence has been felt in the form of this investigation IMO.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

 

I wouldn't think very many, but people are susceptible to believe anything on the internet especially the olds. I'd imagine most of the FWD FWD FWD FWD: crowd was already on the Trump Train though.

In the general, sure. Without interference, they may have leaned toward a Jeb type in the primary though. 

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26438

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Hate said:

I genuinely wonder how many minds were changed? How many people do you think changed their vote from Hilary to Trump based on any “propaganda” from the Russians?? Do you think they even made a dent?

 

I've had this same question from the start. Seems like the "implication" for Russian interference is that they created fake news on Facebook. Do you think Grandpa Joe who is "liking" any of those stories was actually going to vote for Hillary anyway?

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
  • Author
Posted
10 minutes ago, Hate said:

 


I genuinely wonder how many minds were changed? How many people do you think changed their vote from Hilary to Trump based on any “propaganda” from the Russians?? Do you think they even made a dent?

 

When the media is broadcasting Trump 24/7 echoing the Russian propaganda, it has a lot of influence.  Of course I don’t think he intentionally/knowingly knew it was coming from Russia because he’s an idiot but he used their bullshit to bolster his own candidacy.

 

 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That’s what I expected the Mueller report to look like except with more detail based on the speaking indictments of the Russians.

The Mueller indictments:

1. Laying out the Kremlin online active measures shadow campaign with tremendous detail

https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download

2.  Laying out the GRU military operation to hack the DNC and using WikiLeaks (organization 1) to disseminate the stolen emails to influence public perception with plausible deniability.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download

 

3. Mueller indictments: Roger Stone was in communication with GRU military operation (guccifer 2.0) around hacked DNC materials, including advance notice of release and timing.  Roger Stone communicated with senior Trump campaign officials around the release of stolen goods in GRU possession.

^^^ How is that any LESS of a nightmare than had Trump personally "colluded" with the "Russian government" ?  For all intents and purposes, it's the same freaking thing, and Stone is currently under a gag order pending trial for lying and witness tampering related to the Russian IRA and GRU-cutout Wikileaks.

 

 

Edited by triplehorn
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ulukinatme

ulukinatme 1765

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Hate said:

 


I genuinely wonder how many minds were changed? How many people do you think changed their vote from Hilary to Trump based on any “propaganda” from the Russians?? Do you think they even made a dent?

 

13 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I've had this same question from the start. Seems like the "implication" for Russian interference is that they created fake news on Facebook. Do you think Grandpa Joe who is "liking" any of those stories was actually going to vote for Hillary anyway?

But...but...how else could she have lost to the bad Orange man?!  Those stupid moderates were all conned by the Russians!

 

Edited by ulukinatme
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13221

Posted
Posted

It would be really cool if people like Maddow and Twitter Congressmorons like Ted Lieu would start focusing on real issues that impact real Americans now.

Do some reporting on child care needs. Do some reporting on the uninsured. Do some reporting on the horrible lives of both the people hounded by debt collectors and the debt collectors themselves. Do something useful for once.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46006

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

It's going to be interesting to see how Trump balances pretending total EXONERATION with a massive Sword of Damocles still hanging over his head thanks to Mueller farming out the majority of the investigation to other branches. 

It's one reason he seems so hell-bent on getting reelected.  He's currently 72 years old.  He'd be 78 years old at the end of a second term.  Odds are decent he won't live that long -- life expectancy of US men is currently 76 years, and moderate obesity knocks 3 years off that number.  Soon he'll be living on borrowed time.  (For all I know, he already is -- I have no idea  how life expectancy is determined.  Is it the current average age of death, or is it a projection of expected life for a current newborn?)

For what it's worth, that 3 year "obesity" correction assumes a BMI between 30 and 35.  Trump's latest physical indicated a BMI of 30.4 (6'3" + 243 lbs), and I'd bet a whole lot of donuts that he's actually far heavier.  So, if he gets into the 40+ range on BMI, he's looking at a 10 year hit on life expectancy, or age 66.

tldr;  don't expect Trump to ever stand trial if he makes it to a second term

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26438

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It would be really cool if people like Maddow and Twitter Congressmorons like Ted Lieu would start focusing on real issues that impact real Americans now.

Do some reporting on child care needs. Do some reporting on the uninsured. Do some reporting on the horrible lives of both the people hounded by debt collectors and the debt collectors themselves. Do something useful for once.

100% agree.

However, that's not how the 24/7 news works now. It's the equivalent of Jerry Springer.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23481

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It would be really cool if people like Maddow and Twitter Congressmorons like Ted Lieu would start focusing on real issues that impact real Americans now.

Do some reporting on child care needs. Do some reporting on the uninsured. Do some reporting on the horrible lives of both the people hounded by debt collectors and the debt collectors themselves. Do something useful for once.

“Focus on real shit people” appeals unfortunately haven’t gained any traction over the last years. Don’t expect that to change now. 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 46006

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It would be really cool if people like Maddow and Twitter Congressmorons like Ted Lieu would start focusing on real issues that impact real Americans now.

Do some reporting on child care needs. Do some reporting on the uninsured. Do some reporting on the horrible lives of both the people hounded by debt collectors and the debt collectors themselves. Do something useful for once.

Interesting callouts.  Do any of the FOX talking geniuses need to follow your advice?

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udaydanceparty

udaydanceparty 33

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Yes.  Especially when you’ve tied up your online identity with this idea that is now being declared rubbish. 

Imagine how much time was wasted on this Russian conspiracy nonsense.  It's 12+ hours of posting per day for over 2 years.  With that kind of effort, he could have gotten a law degree or maybe even found the cure for cancer.  Instead it was completely worthless.  He practically gave the politics forum cancer.

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